Break up led to positive...but

[Jox]

Hi all,

we have been separate for 3 weeks. Minimal communication was in place. I didn't have problem with that.

Reading his mails I see:

- he is going to therapy,

- he is taking yoga classes and has plans for the future

- he is continuing a construction on the beach we started.

All this may not seem like the big things, but from his angle they are huge.

On my side of the story, I am going to therapy, and for the first time in my life I have a distance to look at things, I am reading a lot and taking care of myself. I am not currently in angry stage, but more in introspective.

However, reading the section of after brake up, I didn't reflect our situation. Basically all the threads are that it is un-curable-get-out-asap. In our case a lots of progress has been made, ex he was so shy, he couldn't make any deals with people, now he does things that even he can't believe he is doing.

In addition to his improvement, contrary to what I see written here, he is actually doing better after me leaving: - T, yoga, plans for the future... .

So I definetly see light there. Yet my plan is to stay away until I, myself get to terms what was I doing in all this, so the work has to be on me now, and thank god he is in ok place, so it is not taking my energy.  I told him that in 3 months I will talk to him ( the number 3 is because of the visa I have that depends on him, otherwise I would say 6).

So I see a possibility to work this out, yet I am not fanatic as I was to make it work.  I see that we are both working on ourselves.  After 3 or more months I would present my plan, but overall I think it is possible.

Thank you all

Jox

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[livednlearned]

Hi Jox,

It's a good sign that he is working on himself, and that you are focusing on yourself, too.

How will you respond if he reaches out sooner than the 3 months?

Did the two of you have any particular dynamic when you were together that you want to focus on?

[Jox]

Hi livednlearned,

It's a good sign that he is working on himself, and that you are focusing on yourself, too.

that's what I came to conclude comparing to other posts, not that there is necessarily a hope that I want to cling on, but that there is still positive dynamics after I decided to separate.

How will you respond if he reaches out sooner than the 3 months?

He already has tried, but fortunetly we are 6 hours apart. I answer in general way, that I have to work on myself, which is true.

Did the two of you have any particular dynamic when you were together that you want to focus on?

Yes, this is mostly on my mind

- the splitting, in various forms, but especially when he sees me as evil, and kicks me out of the living space.

- he is or used to be extremely antisocial, and jealous, and possessive of my time. Now I see that I was living in constant fear of talking and meeting other people, of spending too much time away from him, and many more things in that direction.

 I think I do want to be explicit when negotiating, and bringing the past in the sense that it is not OK to happen again, and if it does, I do want him next day to recognize it.

I do want my space also, which will mean living in the same area, but separate, as a form of integration.  if he splits and doesn't notice or doesn't apologies, I will be in my space without a fear of being kick out.

I just want to repeat that I am very aware that it may not work, but I am giving a chance for me, for him, and for long relationship, but I am fine if it's gone with the wind

[livednlearned]

this is mostly on my mind

- the splitting, in various forms, but especially when he sees me as evil, and kicks me out of the living space.

- he is or used to be extremely antisocial, and jealous, and possessive of my time. Now I see that I was living in constant fear of talking and meeting other people, of spending too much time away from him, and many more things in that direction.

He may have a hard time recognizing that the splitting is a distortion in his thinking (versus real). One thing I have found helpful is to discuss in advance what the boundaries are (without having expectations that he will control the splitting). I sense you are working your way toward this when you identify the importance of having your own space. So, your boundary might be, "When things get emotional between us, it's important for me to have a place where I can cool off and prevent things from getting worse. I will wait for you to reach out to me so I know that you're receptive to being with me again." Or however you want to maintain that boundary.

 I think I do want to be explicit when negotiating, and bringing the past in the sense that it is not OK to happen again, and if it does, I do want him next day to recognize it.

Does he typically apologize after splitting you black?

I do want my space also, which will mean living in the same area, but separate, as a form of integration.  if he splits and doesn't notice or doesn't apologies, I will be in my space without a fear of being kick out.

This is very healthy. 

I just want to repeat that I am very aware that it may not work, but I am giving a chance for me, for him, and for long relationship, but I am fine if it's gone with the wind

It takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship, so taking care of yourself is job number one. He needs you to be the emotional leader, even when he seems to be working so hard to break you down. Not everyone is up for the challenge, and not all people with BPD are the same. The more strength you gain, the more communication skills you learn, the more support you have, the better chances you have at regaining the emotional health needed when one person has such severe emotional limitations.

[Jox]

Hi livednlearned,

Thank you for your responses, they are claryfieing my path, but one thing caught my attention you asked me

Does he typically apologize after splitting you black?

Never, and to make things worst, he told me various times that, he has his reasons for doing absolutely terrible things.  This was the main reason for physical and emotional separation, which was started reading a book Women who love too much. I understood that this is not acceptable.

I wonder what do you think about this attitude, and if there are threads regarding this.

We on Ayahuasca treatments, the night after the treatment, he would told me that he had been terrible with me, and that he doesn't know how do I put up with it. Well the particular moment was not appropriate to start conversation on the topic, but following days would never bring it up.

The worst is that me, so afraid of splitting I could ever bring them up.

Working with Ayahuasca, I saw him on his nights, that he cries a lot, every time he has been with the treatment, for over 3 years. He has been crying less actually, nevertheless I can see that hi is in serious suffering that he produces in dayly life, that come to light while on treatment. He is in constant fear of me leaving and constantly trying to please me, among other mental processes of "protections" he constantly has on his mind.

I am saying all this that I see that he is suffering and that he is doing his best, and that he actually has change 160*, but the splitting.  He is very proud of doing Aya, which is a,very hard endeavor for even mentally sound people. He also got hooked to vipassana meditation, which is also one of the hardest mental excercises.

However, the splitting in extreme editions seems for now to be in place of no change.  

I see two sides, one that he is working hard and that he is in suffering, but on my side it is a lots of suffering too,,and that I am on,stand by until he changes. I don't see this attitude of stand by healthy anymore.

Is it realistic to expect this to change, considering he changed in many was so far?

Just the mere question sounds wrong, but that's what's in my mind.

Thank you

Jox

[Grey Kitty]

I think it is reasonable to expect him to continue to work on himself if he's already started. (I'm not familiar with Ayahuasca, but I have done Vippassana meditation, and it did help me a lot)

It isn't reasonable to expect his changes to include any specific result that would matter to you. You have to accept him as he is.

I think the best thing you can do is educate yourself about his behaviors... .and educate yourself on what you can do differently that will lesson the impact on you, and help him / give him more space to improve / etc.

In my time here, three fundamental tools that I've learned -- Not invalidating people, enforcing boundaries, and being actively validating have made a huge difference in my life. Dealing with my wife when she was at her worst really tested me in this... .but these skills have improved all my relationships and interactions with other people.

It sounds like you are getting much needed space away from him where you can work on yourself and your own issues--Keep it up, and if you do reconcile, make sure that taking good care of yourself stays a priority!

[Jox]

Hi Grey Kitty,

what you said makes sense, but in reality how does it work?  Are there any threads in this direction?

and if you do reconcile, make sure that taking good care of yourself stays a priority!

The separation is pretty new, less than a month. So I don't have much ideas, but this is what I think:

1. For some time to live separate, but in the town, we are on the beach area of south México. Now I am 6 hours away, a cross heavy mountains, which helps a lot.

2. To have total control of $ and to clear the material possessions,,what is mine what is yours, and if he screws up with his finances I will not jump in. I want to have good savings.

3. This is a test, I want to see how he reacts to criticism, I know him well, so,he can't hide the splitting.

4. I want to have friends separate from his ( if he makes ones).

5. I think that living separate will prevent me from babysitting.

Is this enough for my protection?

My inner work was not included since this thread is not about it.

Thank you

Jox

PS

Of course the splitting of few days ago was "played down" yet I must admit that he did acknowledge it and apologized, not a bad move.

[Grey Kitty]

Is there a post for tools on how to make things work better? Uhm, yes, a LOT of them!

I'd start with "The Lessons" we have here. Each sub-board has its own set. I read the ones on the "Improving" board years back. This ("Saving" board is relatively new, and I see that the lessons for this board are still a work in progress, but there is a lot of good stuff in them already. You can read them here: (The topic is pinned to the top here too.)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287068.0

You mentioned a bunch of things to take care of yourself. They are mostly in the category of boundaries to enforce. That is critical to make this kind of relationship work.

1. For some time to live separate, but in the town, we are on the beach area of south México. Now I am 6 hours away, a cross heavy mountains, which helps a lot.

Physical distance is one way to create/enforce boundaries with other people. It is very effective. It is also a bit of a last resort, reserved for people who are VERY difficult to do this with. That problem can either be that the person is challenging (or even toxic) ... .or that your skills and stamina aren't sufficient. As you get stronger, you may find you need less physical distance.

2. To have total control of $ and to clear the material possessions,,what is mine what is yours, and if he screws up with his finances I will not jump in. I want to have good savings.

Excellent. (I'm assuming that you have your own income and it is sufficient to support yourself. That makes this fairly easy)

4. I want to have friends separate from his ( if he makes ones).

Also very good. I would tweak how you said it a little. Your friends and friendships are separate from him. Maintain those relationships. Whether he has a friendship with them... .or not. Try not to push him either toward or away from your friends, and let him have his own if he wants.

3. This is a test, I want to see how he reacts to criticism, I know him well, so,he can't hide the splitting.

I don't like this kind of test--He doesn't handle criticism well, and is prone to splitting. In other words, if it is a test, he's pretty sure to fail and you already know it.

Better to work on both avoiding situations where he will need to do this... .and on how to protect yourself and get through it faster, cleaner, and more easily when it does happen. (This is probably suitable for another long topic)

5. I think that living separate will prevent me from babysitting.

I don't understand/know the context here. Are you talking about his children? Or some other babysitting?

And lastly, taking care of yourself includes a whole dimension that has NOTHING to do with protecting yourself from him. This link has some examples:

What does it mean to take care of yourself?