Please help

[Kinglychee1928]

Hello,

I am a new member here and I am hoping I can find people who might have some similar experience and might be able to give me some insights.

I have been in an on and off relationship with a co-worker for about 2 years. He has BPD and Bipolar, also other stuff like PTSD, depression, anxiety, ADHD... .etc. At first, he made it real clear that he wanted to be in a relationship with me, all the pursuing and sweet things. Then 6 months later, he showed me all of his meds and told me he is messed up and he is not ready for a relationship. We didn't speak to each other for a few weeks, then he pretended nothing happened. We continued to be friends (not intimate, but definitely very close). Then things got blur, as usual, he would stop by my office, give me a kiss, leaving me little gifts on my desk... .That confusing phase lasted for 6 months. Then, he told me he was ready to give it a try, I said yes. We officially dated for 6 months, he asked me multiple times to meet his family... .etc. I told him we should wait because I thought it was too soon. Followed with a fight a few weeks after, he completely disappeared. I've contacted him multiple times, no response. Until a month later, I got multiple texts and a nasty email. We talked, tried to repair the relationship. He told me he attempted suicide and that he loves me and wanted me to be his wife, but he is too messed up, he couldn't give me what I needed/wanted. He wanted to have me as a friend. I said ok coz I was too scared. I told him I would support him in whatever ways I could. I spent 2 months to educate myself, learning about BPD and bipolar disorder, found myself a therapist. We went back to the same confusing phase again for 4 months, he calls us "lovers", more than friends, intimate but not committed coz he is too messed up and not ready. And again, he disappeared again. It's been almost a month now... .

Throughout the past 2 years, he would go through this cycle of depression, feeling really good about himself, hating the world... .And we would have minor fights, he would disappear for days. The big no contact act happened 2 times and this is the second time. However, this time, I chose not to reach out, I did not text/call/apologize this time for a change. And it's been hard. He did try to retaliate at work, brought a girl to work and introduced to everyone (his best friend whom he used to sleep with), and unfriended me on facebook. He also frantically asked a co-worker if everyone hates him now because he is no longer speaking to me (but the other co-workers have no clue and was shocked that he asked that).

I don't know if I should reach out and save this roller coaster ride... .or I should just leave it as is, feeling extremely unsettled. I don't know if he will ever reach out to me again this time... .I hope he does so we can somehow communicate and be on good terms and be civil since we work together... .the anxiety is killing me, I see him walking around and just pretend he is invisible. I love this man, as difficult as it is dealing with all these emotions. Everyone is telling me to walk away and never look back, I feel like I can't talk to any of my friends or family about him anymore because no one wants to hear that I still love him and I miss him very much. It's sad. I hope at least someone will talk to me here and not judge... .

Any suggestions on what I should do?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JQ]

Hi King,

Since this is your first post ... .let me be the first to say hi and welcome to the group     You won't find anyone here that will judge you because those here are or have been where you are. WE understand what you're going through because we've lived it ... .friends & family who tell you to walk away and never look back have never experienced a romantic encounter with someone who is BPD.  You have a lot of things on your plate ... .PTSD, BPD, ADHD, etc. ... .you have a lot to think about ... .you're on a journey of self discovery. I would highly encourage you to read the references at the top and to the right of the main page to start the process of learning ... .-------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No one can or will tell you what to say or do ... .it's not how we do things ... .we can give you some guidance on what has or better yet what has NOT worked for us.  Its a good thing that you have found a therapist ... .I hope they are well educated in things BPD among the other issues that you describe.  You know that BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness ... .and there are going to be some really challenging and difficult questions you're going to have to ask yourself.

What you describe is certainly BPD behavior ... . Borderline personality disorder is one of the most confusing, frustrating and contentious of all the personality disorders. Evidence of structural and functional deficit in brain areas central to regulation, attention and self-control, and executive function have been described in BPD. Whatever your intention is you'll need to learn a whole new language of BPD such as gas lighting, splitting, painted black, painted white, triangulation, engulfment, abandonment, invalidation, deregulation, projection, shaming, triggering and the list goes on.

My exBPDgf has been seeing Ph.d's, clinical physiologist and therapist for 25 years and still has serious impulse control, behavioral problems in addition to all the other classic BPD things you hear about. Once I learned that her impulse control, her bad behavior was a result of severe Cluster B mental illness it was easier for me to accept and move on in my own life.   It was MY uneducated arrogant thinking to believe I could help her ... .that I could save her ... .what was I thinking when 25 plus years of professional highly educated people couldn't "fix her".  But that doesn't make the pain or hurt any less knowing that she mentally ill ... .you care with all of your heart, soul and it's never enough ... .it hurts ... .that's what we're here for ... .to guide you on your journey of healing, education and self discovery ... .it won't be easy ... .you WILL stumble ... .but when you do ... .someone will be there to hold a hand out to you ... .help you up, dust you off and THEN its up to you what YOU do next ... .do YOU stay on the path that your currently on ... .do YOU take the path to the right and see where it goes ... .or do YOU sit back down right where you're at and do nothing ... .the choices is and ALWAYS has been YOURS King ... .

Know that NOTHING about BPD has or WILL makes logical sense to you ... .or anyone of us for that matter.  It's why you should seek out a therapist with a lot of BPD experience to assist you ... .to guide you on your journey. You can't & will NEVER change someone with BPD ... .but you can learn about yourself which is the most important aspect of this journey of yours ... . the chances are you're a "codependent, care giver aka a NON" like most of us here in the group ... .we are the Knight in Amor protecting those who can't protect themselves. We are the Sheriff in the White hat riding in to save the day. We are the perfectionist who work so very hard to make things right so that we can live a happy life ... .because if everything is right with our BPD s/o ... .then there will be no reason to rage ... .there will be no reason for Mr. Hyde to come out.  The good news is ... .that once we're self aware of  our behavior we can learn and adjust it ... .to take care of ourselves and our needs. You'll learn about the 51% rule ... .it's ok to give part of yourself to someone ... .but you should keep 51% of your energy to making yourself happy in life. If your giving more the 51% of yourself in any relationship ... .eventually you'll run out of energy ... .exhausted ... .you've given everything you have ... .mind, body & soul and it's VERY difficult to recover from.  

I just want to give you some information on what BPD is ... .what you're up against ... .once you become REALLY educated on this horrible mental illness can you make sound choices based on the facts ... .if you're honest with yourself ... .

There are numerous studies, universities, professors, Ph.d's, MDs, therapist that have studied this question for decades. BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness with numerous studies to indicate that is in deed a genetic, physical defects within the brain coupled with environmental conditions that are responsible for BPD. BPD can also be co-diagnosed with other mental / behavioral illnesses such as NPD for example.  There are MD, Ph.d's that are trying to categorize BPD in the Cluster A mental illness category that includes paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder.

The following is in from Harvard Medical School... .which indicates an underlying abnormality of the brain structure or function resulting in a significant disability.

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a severe mental illness seen in approximately 20% of inpatient and outpatient clinical samples and between 1.2% and 5.9% of the general population and can co-occur with other disorders.

BPD is believed to emerge from an interaction between genes and environment. The major twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in diagnostic concordance. This concordance rate is similar to that found in bipolar disorder and stronger than rates for depression or anxiety. Functional MRI studies of BPD patients show abnormalities in the amygdala (an almond-sized and shaped brain structure linked with a person's mental and emotional state) and the prefrontal cortex (a part of the brain associated with planning, reasoning, solving problems and regulating thoughts, feelings and behaviors). A major BPD twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in BPD.

A core feature of BPD is self-destructive behavior, including bingeing and purging, substance abuse, risky sexual behavior, reckless driving and spending, and self-injury. In the short term, these behaviors attempt to regulate out-of-control emotions, but the interpersonal consequences further impair troubled relationships.

Recent data link BPD to both structural and physiological brain abnormalities. Volumetric studies using MRI consistently show decreased volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala of persons with BPD. Functional MRI studies using standardized tests have demonstrated differences in brain areas and functioning between people with BPD and controls. Using evoked emotional response, MRI differentiated BPD from controls with differences appearing in the amygdala, anterior cingulate and prefrontal cortex. This research suggests that both the affective instability and the interpersonal hypersensitivity seen in BPD have their roots in the sensitivity of the brain's amygdala to negative emotions.  In the face of this increased amygdalae activation, persons with BPD demonstrate impaired self-regulatory function in the prefrontal cortex.

The findings from psychopharmacologic and other biologic treatment data, coupled with associated brain functioning findings, indicate that BPD is a biologically based disorder.  Based on this analysis, including BPD in the Massachusetts Parity Law as a "biologically-based disorder" is well founded.

From the Mayo Clinic ... .

Cluster B personality disorders are characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior. They include antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. It's not necessary to exhibit all the signs and symptoms listed for a disorder to be diagnosed.

From John Hopkins Medical School ... .

Borderline personality disorder. People with this disorder are not stable in their perceptions of themselves, and have difficulty keeping stable relationships. Moods may also be inconsistent, but never neutral. Their sense of reality is always seen in "black and white." People with borderline personality disorder often feel as though they lacked a certain level of nurturing while growing up. As a result, they constantly seek a higher level of caretaking from others as adults. This may be achieved through manipulation of others, leaving them often feeling empty, angry, and abandoned, which may lead to desperate and impulsive behavior.

Things are especially difficult because you share work space with him ... .it won't be easy.  BPD's have an extreme fear of abandonment ... .and engulfment ... .BPD is NOT like cancer that with surgery, chemo, radiation they "MIGHT" get better & after 5 years of no additional indications of cancer they are deemed "cured".  Evidence indicates BPD is at the gene level of the human body and physical abnormalities of the brain.  In the NON or codependent world we are in part a perfectionist ... .we want to "fix" everything to make everything better.  

It's funny you mention the roller coaster ride ... .my step mother & step sister are BPD ... .and I got off the crazy train roller coaster a while back ... .now they open the cages to their flying monkey's to cause chaos & drama expecting me to put them back in their cages ... .I've learned to tell them ... .noo ... .YOUR flying monkey's ... .YOU put them back in their cages ... .if you want a relationship with this person ... .you're going to learn to do that too ... .not for a month ... .or a couple of years ... .but for the rest of your life ... .

YOU need to take care of YOU King ... .be sure you're getting enough sleep ... .sleep helps repair the body & mind from the day's stress to get it ready for the next day. Be sure you're eating right ... .junk food is just that ... .JUNK ... .and be sure you're getting out and enjoying the sun ... .go for a walk ... .a mile ... .it'll only take 15-20 minutes so don't say you don't have time. This will help you burn off th extra stress you're experiencing and release the "tonins" that your body needs for positive thoughts and energy to get you through the day. Enjoy the sun ... .studies have shown the amount of light that hits your eyes is soo important for better moods. Enjoy the birds ... .sounds of nature ... .enjoy the breeze ... .basically ... .enjoy the small things in life ... .

I know you miss him very much ... .we all have missed our BPDs including me ... .it's ok to miss them ... .it's ok to love them ... .for a period of time they were a important part of your life.  I know this seems like a lot ... .and you have a lot of "homework" ... .you can work through this ... .come back here and talk about anything you want ... .we're anonymous here ... .we won't judge ... .come back as often as you need too ... .come back as often as you want too ... . 

JQ

[Kinglychee1928]

Hi JQ,

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I guess my biggest confusion right now is - should I reach out or should I just leave a person who is sick and needs help and support? It's completely against my nature to walk away from a person because of his/her illness. However, I can't justify continuing to apologize when I simply asked a question or said a sentence that triggered him for no known reason.

Is it common for BPDs to reach out after they disappeared? Last time he did reach out after a month but because I texted/called/apologized. My therapist and a few friends said he might  reach out, but probably not the way I wanted him to... .I am so anxious every time when I run into him at work, I don't know what he would do or say to provoke me next... .

What strategies did you use that was helpful when BPDs disappeared or when they are anger and trying to retaliate?

[livednlearned]

I don't know if I should reach out and save this roller coaster ride... .or I should just leave it as is, feeling extremely unsettled.

Hi Kinglychee,

Welcome and hello  

It takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship. Like you mention, it can be a roller coaster, and the key is to not get on the roller coaster, to stay grounded and be a source of stability. When we learn more about BPD, it gets easier to not take things personally, and to understand that the behavior is a combination of emotional lability and dysfunctional coping mechanisms. Learning communication skills and asserting healthy boundaries can help mitigate things, and these can both require patience and strength.

Knowing whether to *save* the roller coaster ride is more about building up your skills and knowledge so that you can hold steady. That's what this board is for and we're here to walk with you if you want company.  

Sometimes, friends and family get impatient because they do not have the words and understanding that it takes to make sense of these relationships, and sometimes it is because they see us becoming a shell of our former selves. Everyone benefits when we take care of ourselves, including BPD loved ones. It's essential to learn how to take care of yourself when involved with someone who has emotional lability, so that's job #1: being good to yourself  

Have you two ever talked openly about what's going on when he stops talking to you?

[Kinglychee1928]

Hello livednlearned,

Thank you so much for your response. Your advice is exactly the same as what my therapist told me! I did spend 2 months actively watching all kinds of documentaries, read multiple books and consistently meet with my therapist who has extensive experience treating BPD to help me with this. However, I am also human, and when I reach my limits, all the communication strategies that I've learned flies out the window and I get mad at myself for that.

3 days before our last conversation we had such a great weekend. He asked "What are we?" and I didn't think it was a good time to talk about the same issues knowing it's going to trigger him even though he brought it up. So I told him to discuss that another time. Then 3 days later, the question brought up by me, and he just exploded. I've already phrased it in a way that was indirect "Whatever we've built together so far, are we working towards something?", he just got pissed and said "NO! NOTHING AT ALL!" and of course accompany with a whole lot of other hurtful things... .he said even I said I've tried to educate myself to understand him, I still don't... .And I finally told him maybe we should just be acquaintances if we are not working towards anything at all because we can't stay in "limbo" forever. He said he would like to be friends (I know it won't work, we would go right back into "limbo", it happened way too many times already). So I told him "leave me alone and we can talk more about it in person", he said "yes, I will give you a call and find a time". Never did. Then all those provoking actions happened in sequence as I've mentioned in my original post. So I didn't feel like it was good for me to engage in any way when he is going through his "cycle".

Now it's been very close to a month without any contact. I still see him every day at work. I've tried to be civil and said good morning right after we had the fight, he could not even look at me, but looked down on the floor to say morning back to me. Since then, I just stopped because I did not want to upset him any further... .

What would you do when BPDs are going through their "cycle"? Engage? disengage yourself?

I have been a lot better in terms of dealing with my guilt for making him mad, and taking his accusations personally. However, I still feel that way sometimes and it's very difficult for not being able to share that with anyone, they think I am sick for wanting to be with a mentally ill person... .sigh... .We all have issues, I will never have less respect or view people who have mental issues differently. But I guess it's just hard for people to understand in general.

What are your thoughts?

[livednlearned]

I am also human, and when I reach my limits, all the communication strategies that I've learned flies out the window and I get mad at myself for that.

We all are, so you're in good company here  

Communication skills go hand in hand with boundaries, and boundaries are about knowing our limits and protecting ourselves. The two are opposite sides of the same coin. As he begins to feel more distress or emotional dysregulation, you will naturally feel challenged to stay grounded and centered. It's only natural that you are learning your own limits in these conversations, and may discover signs that it is time to take a time-out, or pick up key phrases that help you press pause for your own sake.

I didn't feel like it was good for me to engage in any way when he is going through his "cycle".

That sounds wise. Are you noticing that he cycles at specific times or for certain durations? Bipolar can definitely complicate things because of the mania (which can present as dysthmia... .not fun).

What would you do when BPDs are going through their "cycle"? Engage? disengage yourself?

I think it's different for each person. Sometimes, it can help to spell out how you'll respond in advance and then stick to that structure (lessens anxiety). "Hey, if you need a time out, I understand. I'll probably continue to say hi because I care about you, so unless you tell me otherwise, that's how I'm going to be, ok?" There can be compounding damage + shame in these relationships, and if you can demonstrate that you're capable of taking care of ourself and not taking things personally, the shame might not snowball for him. It's a tall order! And you are already doing that, like you mention:

I have been a lot better in terms of dealing with my guilt for making him mad, and taking his accusations personally. However, I still feel that way sometimes and it's very difficult for not being able to share that with anyone, they think I am sick for wanting to be with a mentally ill person... .sigh... .We all have issues, I will never have less respect or view people who have mental issues differently. But I guess it's just hard for people to understand in general.

I understand. It's a very personal choice, and if you remain committed to your own emotional health and resilience, that probably makes a big difference in how your loved ones perceive the relationship. They don't want to see you hurt, or worn down.

Part of defining our boundaries is knowing our values, and that is often a very rewarding yet solo journey. If you know your values, you can define and assert boundaries, and that will guide how you take care of yourself.

[JQ]

Hi JQ,

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I guess my biggest confusion right now is - should I reach out or should I just leave a person who is sick and needs help and support? It's completely against my nature to walk away from a person because of his/her illness. However, I can't justify continuing to apologize when I simply asked a question or said a sentence that triggered him for no known reason.

Is it common for BPDs to reach out after they disappeared? Last time he did reach out after a month but because I texted/called/apologized. My therapist and a few friends said he might  reach out, but probably not the way I wanted him to... .I am so anxious every time when I run into him at work, I don't know what he would do or say to provoke me next... .

What strategies did you use that was helpful when BPDs disappeared or when they are anger and trying to retaliate?

King,

You sound like most of us here ... .being the "Codependent" ... .you want to "save, support," anyone that needs the help.  Codependents find self worth in helping, saving, supporting others so much so at times we sacrifice ourselves ... .I'm just as guilty because I was there. I gave and gave of myself until I was physically, mentally, and emotionally spent ... .it was taking a toll on my mind, body and soul.  Through this site, a couple of good therapist tag teaming me, and reading and consuming everything I could find on BPD and being a codependent and the toxic and chaotic relationship I was in. Not only of my exBPDgf ... .but with my BPD step mother & step sister.   A couple of decades ago I had what I NOW know was a BPD / codependent relationship ... .and looking back on it ... .it helped me get to a good place to learn to about myself as a codependent.  BPDgf #1 was on the extreme of all the behaviors of BPD ... .and if I'm honest with myself so was my 2nd BPDgf.  I didn't know the term back then ... .but only learned about NC or No Contact with my recent BPD r/s.  

You asked ... ."Is it common for BPDs to reach out after they disappeared?" With my first BPDgf I cut off all contact with her ... .what I now know as NC. I ended up leaving the state and she continued to "stalk" me due to her extreme fear of abandonment and need to control the relationship. I finally had to threaten federal law enforcement intervention to leave me alone since I was in the military. She recently introduced herself into my stepmothers & step sisters life in order to reconnect with me. My BPD step mother & step sister gave her my phone number ... .yeah not happy with either one of them. When I was back there a year ago she actually threw herself on me. Long story short she's been dating bf1 for 18-20 yrs ... .lives with him, for all purposes they're married. She's sleeping with bf#2 for boy toy reasons ... .but wanted me to replace him. SO twenty years later she's still wanting to have sex with me.

exBPDgf #2 and I have been NC ... .but for a couple of years was a on again and off again thing like you hear about with BPDs.  She recently called me let my phone ring once to register her call and hung up ... .first time was at 7am on her way to work. Same day 4 pm one ring, hung up ... .your guess as to why she did it is as good as anyone else. It could be she wanted me to think about her again, saying high I miss you, hey call me, etc. etc. etc.  I know that she's still seeing her bf of a almost 2 yrs ... .and as volatile as our relationship was and full of chaos I really didn't want to go down that road. I never returned her phone call ... .I miss her ... .I still love her ... .and that's ok ... .she was a important part of my life for a period of time ... .it's ok to be human.    But I know from BPDgf#1 they will always think about you ... .and NEVER say NEVER when they say good bye ... .so I maintain ... .or I try to maintain NC with both of them ... .

I also had to go NC with my step sister because of the toxic relationship we had.  She has said some pretty nasty things to me and I'm not going to let her verbally, mentally or emotionally beat me down anymore ... .regardless if she's my step sister or not. I maintain very little contact with my BPD step mother ... .she lets her flying monkey's loose every phone call and expects me to put them back in their cages ... .and I flat out tell her ... .YOUR flying monkey's ... .YOU let them out of their cages ... .YOU put them back in.  I hear from her about 1 every 5-7 weeks ... .which I'm ok with ... .really.

You asked ... ."What strategies did you use that was helpful when BPDs disappeared or when they are anger and trying to retaliate?"  YOU can't force a BPD to contact you when they don't want to talk to you. YOU can't force a BPD to do something they don't want to do ... .they will do it on their schedule. They need to be in control of the situation.  When they rage & try to retaliate it's difficult to manage your own feelings. Learn the tools of validation ... .and more importantly setting and maintaining boundaries. This will be a big challenge for you as a codependent.

My exBPDgf #2 would try to devalue me by telling me about her "boyfriend" or other sexual conversations ... .I would set the boundary and stick to it. I would have "LIMITED" success with it. When she mentioned something again ... .I told her you are trying to hurt my feelings, you're trying belittle me and I'm going to hang up now ... .I don't want to talk to you right now and I will call you when Im in a better frame of mind.  You could tell her tone would change ... .she would apologize some of the time ... .and would text me after I hung up saying several different things.

BPD's feel immense shame, guilt for things and I would like to believe things like that helped at times ... .but then other times she would completely melt down and rage. My 1st BPDgf actually raged & assaulted me last year when she came over to a family members house.  Then 24 hours later act like nothing had happen ... .the same thing with BPDgf#2 ... .complete melt down and within a hour or two sometimes a day ... .maybe a week she would text or call me like nothing had happen. Its all part of the mental illness ... .it's frustrating ... .can cause an extreme amount anxiety ... .it's not easy and will NEVER be easy to deal with.  YOU have to learn that if you're going to pursue anything with anyone with BPD ... .YOU have to go in with your eyes WIDE OPEN!

I don't know if I answer your questions or not ... .please let me know ... .and if you have more please ask ... .

JQ

[Kinglychee1928]

Today is exactly a month with no contact and it's hard on me. This whole week I couldn't sleep and having this horrible headache that won't go away. I skipped my therapy session Coz I just couldn't make myself leave my apartment.

This week, he told a co worker about how people hates him Coz I hung out with those people and told them stuff. And I did not do such thing. My therapist believes that he continues to think that I'm still in a fight with him and again he is trying to provoke a response. I was so upset Coz I got blamed for no reason. And yet I feel extremely sick to my stomach knowing that he is out to provoke me.

I have no one to talk to Coz everyone thinks I'm crazy to still care about him and wanting to talk to him.

He seems all calm and happy, but I'm here crying and losing sleep over this person. It's so pathetic.

How can anyone be so cold and heartless?

[JQ]

Hi King,  

I'm sorry to hear that it's been a rough week for you. When you're in a BPD relationship, it can test you to the very limits of your core as you're experiencing.  First and foremost YOU need to take care of YOU!  Here are some suggestions that I put out to others ... .and it does help ... .BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE IN YOUR OWN WELL BEING!

So your not sleeping well ... .you've joined the club so don't feel alone.  SOO, the stress your under causes your body to react in certain ways. Part of what happens is that your body limits the production of a natural hormone called Melatonin, which helps you get sleepy and falls asleep. SO go to the grocery store and in the vitamins & supplement section you'll find the melatonin. DON"T WORRY it's not a drug. I had my flight doc turn me on to it to help me sleep when I was flying. Trust me, we can't even take aspirin without his knowledge.  I would start off with 5mg about an hour before you want to go to sleep. You should start to relax and fall asleep like normal.  If you don't then take another one ... .I currently take 30mg's myself to help me.

I would stop drinking or limit it before you go to sleep. It'll actually interfere with your sleep.

I would encourage you to make sure your eating right ... .I know it's hard at the moment and you're probably eating a lot of "comfort food" to help cope with the stress. Stop eating the junk food because nothing good comes from that ... .not even your poo      And keep a sense of a humor too.

I would encourage you to get out and take a walk, exercise to burn up some of the is stress that is wreaking havoc on your mind, & body.  A mile will only take 15 minutes ... .maybe 20 if you're really slow.  This will help you burn calories, help you burn off stress and help you wear yourself out during the day to help you fall asleep. Don't try to do it to close to going to bed.

I would turn off your phone, iPad, all other electronic devices an hour before you want to go to bed. Studies show that if you look at your phone or other electronic devices it'll keep your brain turned on.

I would get out during the day and take in the sun, the breeze on your face, enjoy nature, maybe do this during your walk. The extra light in your eyes helps with your brain and getting all the "tonins" and good hormones running in your body helping you put yourself in a bette frame of mind.

You're already seeing a good therapist so you're on the right track.

Do all these things and you'll start to feel better, you'll start to eat, sleep and feel better. Then you'll be able to make better choices and decisions because you're taking better care of yourself.

You're not alone King, there are a lot of people here to help you get through this, giving you some guidance, letting you know what did and what didn't work for us.  You're on a path of self discovery and it might seem dark and you might bump into the wall in the tunnel ... .but if you look down the tunnel you can see the light at the end it       Things will get better ... .trust us ... .they always get better. But you have to take an active role in your own well being. You have to take care of YOU!  

J

[Kinglychee1928]

Thanks JQ. But what can I do if he is constantly doing little things knowing it's going to piss me off? And why keep doing that if he doesn't want to be in any relationship with me to begin with? I don't understand! I don't think he is doing it consciously but everyone is telling me he is doing it on purpose. Is it common for pwBPD to retaliate and provoke like that?

[JQ]

King,

You're trying to apply logic and clear thinking to someone's actions who has a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness ... .stop it. They will be the perpetual 3 year old toddler who will constantly challenge you ... .constantly push the boundaries you put in place and unless you enforce them your BPD will constantly dominate you to the point where you can't return. You asked, "Is it common for pwBPD to retaliate and provoke like that?".  YOU have put in boundaries and like a 3 year old toddler when you tell them to stay out of the cookie jar and they will continue to go for it pushing the boundary until you put in a severe consequences like smacking of the hand. YOUR BPD will do the same, they will continue to push the boundary you put in place to see how far they can push you.  

I can't & won't tell you what to do ... .you hear a lot about NC from the codependents, YOU have to decide to go that route if you want too.  NOTHING about BPD will EVER make sense to you, to me or even highly educated mental health professionals.

When I was seeing my 2nd exBPDgf, I put in boundaries ... .I started off with something small like "don't lie to me", sometimes it worked ... .sometimes it didn't work. There were times she was brutally honest with me and I didn't yell or melt down because I asked her NOT to lie to me.  When I finally put in the boundary of NOT seeing & sleeping with bf#2 or anyone else for that matter, it was difficult for her to maintain it. Finally in a moment of clarity in a moment of a loud discussion, she looked right at me and told me, "I can't guarantee you that I won't cheat on you".   She knew the boundary I set, she remember the first boundary I set of NOT lying to me regardless how much it would hurt me and she told me the truth. I told her I can't be in a relationship like that ... .that I loved her to much and I cared for her to much and that if she cheated on me that it would hurt to much.  we said our good byes ... .that is the abbreviated version of things. Was it easy? nope, but I finally came to the line in the sand and she cross it. I had to take care of my own mental & physical well being.  I wanted a partner ... .not the perpetual child that would constantly test me and the boundaries I put in place.

Educate yourself as much as you can with everything that is BPD. And until you get to the line in the sand that you draw ... .a point of no return ... .then this recycle after recycle will continue to happen. If you choose to stay, go in EYES WIDE OPEN and know what you're getting into. Know the in's and outs of the VERY Serious Cluster B mental Illness that YOU are dealing with.  

J

[livednlearned]

Hi King,

what can I do if he is constantly doing little things knowing it's going to piss me off?

Be gentle with yourself. It's perfectly human to feel upset when someone knowingly tries to trip our trigger. There is no easy way to get centered (that I know of!) Over time, you can practice redirecting hot button emotions into a signal that _______ needs to happen, whatever ______ may be for you. When I'm upset, I walk. And I have walked a lot!

And why keep doing that if he doesn't want to be in any relationship with me to begin with? I don't understand!

Trying to trip your trigger is a sign he does want to be engaged -- unfortunately, he doesn't have the skills to engage with you in a healthy way. If he didn't want to be engaged with you, he would move on. This is his way of staying negatively engaged because positive engagement eludes him. He doesn't want you to stop thinking of him (that = emptiness). So in his own unhealthy way, he is actively staying on your radar. It seems to be working  

I don't think he is doing it consciously but everyone is telling me he is doing it on purpose.

It's probably a mixture of both. pwBPD tend to be very impulsive and the volatility of his intense emotions drive him to behave in ways that might make him feel like a passenger. So he's aware of what he's doing, and also probably not feeling like there is much choice, especially when his emotions are highly aroused.

Is it common for pwBPD to retaliate and provoke like that?

There are a lot of different behaviors and different levels of severity to BPD. Gender can make a small difference, so can comorbid diagnoses. Some pwBPD have a lot more narcissism, and some have less empathy, less awareness. I think it helps to start with some basics and then focus more specifically on your individual person.

Understanding the behavior does not mean excusing it. Understanding the behavior can mean getting a degree of detachment so you can depersonalize what's happening. It still hurts to be the target of bad behavior, no matter who is doing it. The key is to get perspective so you aren't feeling reactionary to what is happening.

His emotions are arrested, in a sense. So his behaviors are similar to what you might see in a child who lacks the communication skills and self regulation he needs to behave in a way that gets his needs met more peacefully. When young children get frustrated, they tend to escalate, doing anything to get attention, until they are on tilt and out of control. Acting this way doesn't mean they don't love mom or dad, it means they are trying to get needs met that they can't, for whatever reason. In an adult, these kinds of acting out behaviors can be scary. You have to protect yourself if they become dangerous.

Bill Eddy describes emotional arousal in someone with BPD in an interesting way. In a video I watched, he shows two sides of a (plastic) brain. When someone is highly emotionally aroused (triggered), one half of the brain hits the ceiling -- it sort of branches off of the part of the brain that helps us solve problems. For someone with BPD, this can happen a lot, over seemingly insignificant things, real and imagined. They are quick to trigger and take a longer time to return to baseline. Meaning, that part of the brain that is on the ceiling is kind of acting independent of the other side, and not acting rationally. Your BF is probably chronically triggered right now, I'm guessing. He is not with you, probably feels shame about his behavior, can't access a more calm state of mind where he can use some of his problem-solving skills.

What kinds of things is he doing to upset you?

[Kinglychee1928]

Thank you so much JQ and livednleanred. Things that he did in the past 4 weeks:

1. Whenever I am in the same workspace, he promptly removes himself immediately, making it really obvious to everyone that he has a problem with me.

2. He asked a co-worker out of the blue "does everyone hate me now coz I am no longer with her (me)?".

3. He brought a girl to work and introduced her to everyone (his BFF whom he used to sleep with), sat her right outside of my office at the end of my day so I would run into her.

4. Unfriended me on Facebook, but did not block, so we can totally still see each other's posts.

5. Told another co-worker that "people must hate me now coz I saw her (me) having breakfast with them this morning".

In the past, he would disappear for days, and I would reach out. He would ignore and take his time and eventually get in touch with me. We would apologize to each other, and things would be back to normal. The first time we "officially" broke up, he disappeared for a month, despite the fact that I reached out many times via calls/texts. He texted back pretended nothing happened, I ignored. Then I got a nasty email. He tried to kill himself. We got back together and the cycle continued.

Now it's the second time around, this time is different. I will share a bit more although I don't feel 100% comfortable giving every single details... .In the middle of our fight, I got triggered coz he called me a friend/buddy. Then he got triggered when I asked him "are we working towards something or nothing at all". His answer was "nothing at all". Then he said "you always say that I have this and that, you see a therapist too, what's wrong with you? huh? what's wrong with you?". He pressured me a few more times by asking loudly, I finally cried and screamed "I was raped more than once and got beat up bad growing up." and he got real quiet and said "I am really sorry, I am here to listen". I was too upset and I told him "leave me the f alone". He said "as much as you dislike me right now, I will wait for you to reach out to me this time and I will listen". I just said "I need you to leave me alone and we can be acquaintances, we want different things". He said "I value you very highly as a person, I would like to stay friends". I said "It's not going to work, we should just be acquaintances". He hung up, I didn't know what happened. I called back, he said "You told me to leave you alone, so I hung up. I am upset right now and I cannot continue with this conversation". I said "ok, thank you for letting me know. I would like to continue this conversation in person, please let me know when you will have time". He said "I will call you tomorrow night and let you know about this weekend." --> and that's the end of our relationship, pretty much.

The fact that I shared something deep with him, and his response is to disappear and do things at work to piss me off, hurts more than anything. For me to finally said what happened to me in the past, it's huge. The way he responds showed that he did not care whatsoever. I am not trying to pull the victim card at all that's why I've never shared that with him besides going to therapy consistently myself. I would appreciate if he just won't provoke me to retaliate.

We worked so hard together to get along better for 2 years. He has gotten much better compare to the beginning of our relationship. I tried to educate myself actively as well and learned strategies to communicate with him. But I felt like he has crossed the line this time and I just can't justify to reach out and/or apologize like I used to. I am not sure if my complete silence is bothering him or he has already moved on and just wants to provoke for fun.

I am so lost... .I have the urge to reach out but I just know in the back of my head that it will not be a good idea.

Please advise.

[JQ]

Hi King, here's a big cyber hug for you 

I'm so sorry that you're going through all of this ... .I know it has to be so hard on several levels and you lost, don't know what to do, what to say? Thank you for sharing as much as you did ... .if no one has told you, we're pretty anonymous here which helps with telling what is really bothering us or has us depressed, etc. So tell us what you're comfortable with. 

So you have about 6 post here and still rather new, in your latest post you describe some classic BPD behavior in addition to what might be codependent behavior on your part. I'm glad to hear that you have a good therapist to help you sort out your thoughts, feelings, emotions through all of this. A trained professional helping you sort through all of this just one more tool in the toolbox.

So someone who suffered from their Cluster B mental illness called BPD has some basic fears. They have an EXTREME fear of ABANDONMENT & an EXTREME fear of ENGULFMENT.  As you explore this site, books, your therapist you'll also hear words like shame, guilt, gas lighting, deregulation, projection, painted black & painted white.  If no has told you, a good part of this mental illness is a BPD inability to mange their feelings. They're very impulsive with a variety of things, they mismanage money and a host of other things.  For most BPD's they have the emotional behavior of a 3 yr old toddler. Some like my exBPDgf was educated at an Ivy league school & has 2 Master Degree's. She is very smart when it comes to things like this. HOWEVER, when it comes to emotional behavior with anyone like a mother, father, sibling or a s/o they are emotionally stunted 3 yr old toddler.

And like a 3 yr old toddler you need to put in boundaries and maintain those boundaries. There are great resources here in addition to your therapist helping you do just that. You have to start out small boundaries, like I set a boundary for my exBPDgf NOT to hang up on me when she was mad.  It was a challenge but we learned how to get through it. Next was not to lie to me ... .we had issues with that one. Next was the boundary that if she wanted to see me then it had to be exclusive ... .that boundary was the biggest one and the cause of us breaking up & me going NC.  That was the abbreviated version but you get the meaning.

So your #1 &#2,  it would seem that he has extreme feelings of guilt and doesn't know how to manage those feelings and doesn't know how to proceed. 3. seems to be something related to his extreme fear of abandonment. #4. well ... .my exBPDgf did that to me as well, EVERY TIME we broke up, then would friend me when she wanted to communicate again & the recycle would start all over again, our story isn't unique here, getting unfriended from FB is a very common accordance here in the forums.   

As you said, he is getting triggered and his emotions & feelings surround ENGULFMENT seem to be kicking in. This cycle repeats again and again. If you stay in this relationship, you're going to have to learn from this site, your therapist, and a lot of reading that you're going to have to be the adult in the relationship, remember the 3 yr old toddler?  The story you tell us of him hanging up because you told him to leave you alone is a very good example of this. You've done a lot in learning strategies in communicating with him over the last 2 yrs, you've worked hard and we can tell.

Remember YOU can't apply LOGICAL thinking to anything when it comes to someone who suffers from BPD mental illness,  it doesn't apply.  It is very confusing and frustrating and leaves you upset, crying, unable to think clearly on what you want to do next ... .kinda like where you're at now.

No one here can or will tell you what to do. Although those who suffer from this lifetime mental illness seem to behave in similar ways, but your BPD s/o has their own personality & ways that your trying to learn about.  He appears that the intense & EXTREME fear of engulfment is at play here so he does everything to avoid it.  I know it doesn't make sense right?  Everything they want, need and work at scares them to their core and they will do everything to avoid it.

What i don't know is what exactly you're wanting when you ask for advise? 

J