uBPDmom, terminally ill Dad, and my upcoming wedding

[Depression = 72% of members]

I just emailed my T to see if I could set up an “urgent appointment” of sorts, but until I hear back I’m hoping to find some solace here. In a nutshell, I’ve realized recently that my mom is uBPD. We also just found out that my dad has terminal cancer, with a life expectancy of 4-5 years. 3 months before dad’s diagnosis, I got engaged and began planning a wedding. All of this is triggering my mom’s traits. :'(

My DF and I  are engaged and in the process of planning our May 2017 wedding. 3 days after getting engaged, my dad told my fiance how important it was that we get married in Chicago. My dad said that none of our family could attend a California wedding. He was 100% acting as a megaphone for my mom. I know this because for years, even before I met my DF, my mom has always been very vocal about what she expects for my wedding. She was the wedding planner for my sister’s wedding, along with a few other family parties. My mom and I have very different views for my wedding, but her view is always “right” and my preferences are “selfish”. Even before meeting my DF, I knew I wanted a small intimate wedding here in California. My DF wants the same. He and I are very much on the same page with our wedding preferences.

Both of our families live far away (his family is in Vancouver Canada, my family is in Chicago). Besides California being the place where we plan to continue building our lives together, we also thought that a California wedding would keep the financial/logistical burden distributed evenly between our two families. We understand that traveling anywhere for a wedding is expensive, so we have no hard feelings about anyone who can’t make the trip. But then we made a mistake. 3 days after getting engaged (after I was screamed at by my mom on the phone for 2 hours about how I was a horrible daughter for not prioritizing my own family), we let my mom talk us into considering a Chicago wedding. After being told several times that I would be permanently destroying relationships with my family if I didn’t honor their requests, DF/I told my mom that we would seriously consider some Chicago venues. We currently have appointments set up in May to see three Chicago venues. Once word about the Chicago venues got around to DF’s family, they started getting very angry too. To appease them, we now have appointments set up in April to see their Vancouver venues next month. To be clear, neither DF or I want to get married in Chicago/Vancouver... .but we really want to make our families happy. We are both people pleasers, and have been very open to foregoing our own wedding preferences in favor of making our families happy.

At the very beginning, my parents offered ~$5,000 towards our wedding. It quickly became clear that the money had strings attached. Anytime I mentioned something wedding-related to my mom that she didn’t agree with, she would get VERY angry with me. For example, I told her that I was excited about the wedding invitations that I was designing, and she got angry over the way that I was going to address the envelopes. She said I would be seriously offending people if I didn’t address couples by their husband’s full name (i.e. Mr. and Mrs. John Doe). I told her I’d consider her recommendation, but that I had done research online and found out that it is now considered formal to address them as “Mr. John Doe and Mrs. Jane Doe”, and that it was important to me that women/men be addressed equally at an event that is symbolic of my/DF’s relationship.  Over the next few days, she texted me repeatedly about needing to talk about the invitations. So I talked to her on the phone and she kept insisting about addressing the invitations “her” way, and how she wasn’t able to sleep the night before because it was keeping her up late. So yeah, it’s been like this with a LOT of the wedding elements. After my mom wrote me an email threatening to not come wedding dress shopping with me unless I gave in and let her attend the Chicago venue interviews (something my DF and I are VERY uncomfortable with), I decided I’d had ENOUGH. I was tired of being guilted/screamed at into submission. With the support of my T, I decided to send my mom a boundary-setting email (the first boundary I’ve ever set with mom). It read like this:



Hi Mom,

Thank you for your email. I'm glad you told me how you feel and I'm very sorry that my actions and decisions are causing you heartache. I feel as though you assume that you'll be involved in every aspect of the wedding planning, which (I think) is why you feel like you're being excluded. There are a ton of things I'd love for you to be heavily involved with (reception ideas, decor, flowers, cake, centerpieces, having both you and dad walking me down the aisle... .and lots more). There are also things I don't want you to be in charge of - not because I want to exclude you personally, but because I want to do those things on my own, or with [DF], or with someone else. This isn't meant to exclude you specifically - but since you've already assumed your involvement in every element, I fear I'll often be in the position of having to tell you that certain tasks have already been slated for someone else. I know this isn't the all-access wedding planner role you want, but I hope you can acknowledge that it's a reasonable/common mother-of-the-bride role. I hope you'll give it a chance. I think if you refocus on all the things I'm eager to have your help on, you won't find yourself mourning the things you aren't in charge of.

For example, [DF] and I are really looking forward to doing the first visits to the Chicago venues on our own. That doesn't mean we wouldn't need/value your input down the road, but we're actually excited about being our own wedding planners during this early stage of vendor interviews and decision making. So we will be doing these first venue visits on our own.

You are right to say that planning a wedding is significant for the mother of the bride. I agree with you on that. But this wedding is first and foremost a symbol of my/[DF’s] relationship, and therefore, the decisions should be made based on our preferences - not based on our mother/daughter relationship. I'm excited to hear your advice on everything, but [DF] and I will be making the final call on all wedding decisions. I understand that this declaration could have ramifications on your feelings about the wedding and on your willingness to contribute money. Which brings me to this: I want you and Dad to know how much I appreciate the money you've saved for this wedding. That money represents love, years of hard work, and tremendous sacrifice - especially considering the expensive medical costs that have been plaguing you both for some time. Thank you both for offering the money, and by doing so, placing our happiness/financial well-being above your own. I hope that some day that [DF] and I can work hard enough and save carefully to provide the same offer to our kids. But if the condition I've laid out (which is that he/I get to make all final decisions) is not acceptable, then we both 100% would understand if you/Dad no longer feel willing to offer financial assistance. It is your money, you have every right to decide how it gets used. Considering Dad's medical bills, it would give me a lot of peace to know that the money was easing some of the financial burden that you both are facing.

I love you, and I hope that we can find a way to stop hurting each other.


My mom refused to talk to me for three weeks after I sent that email.

Last month we found out that my dad has cancer. The doctors have been great, but yesterday they delivered the really bad news: it’s terminal cancer. There is a possibility that he could beat the odds and live up to 15 years, but it’s more than likely that he is facing 4-5 years of debilitating medical treatment and will succumb to the cancer during that time. I called my mom last night to receive this information. Before I start complaining about my mom, let’s be clear: she is in agony right now. I can not imagine the pain she is going through, knowing that her husband/love of her life is going to deteriorate and die and leave her alone the rest of her life. I have a lot of empathy for her. And despite the argument, I still want to be very supportive.

That being said, shortly after we originally found the cancer in February, I came to the realization that my mom has BPD traits. She is not diagnosed, but my T suggested the possibility of BPD after I read T some emails my mom wrote to me. T recommended that I read “Walking On Eggshells”, which I did. The book lead me to a realization that is still taking some time to settle in my mind: my mom has uBPD or traits, and those traits/behaviors are being triggered by my wedding. Add that to the fact that my mom LOVES wedding planning and has always assumed that she would be my wedding planner….well, it’s a huge abandonment trigger for her. And THEN she finds out that her husband is dying. She is in crisis right now, losing her husband and daughter. I say all this so you guys can understand why the phone conversation from last night went the way it did, which was like this:

The first part of the phone call was focused on dad’s prognosis. She talked about everything the doctors had said earlier that day, everything we need to be prepared for (the complications, the mortality, etc). I listened, affirmed that my mom was doing an amazing job as a caregiver, thanked her over and over for sharing the information, offered my continued support in whatever way she/dad need…. But as the phone call went on, the tone of the conversation changed. She started listing all the people who were being supportive and at first I didn’t think anything of it. I was genuinely agreeing with her, saying “I’m so glad Randy has offered to watch the dog while you guys are at the chemo treatments, he’s such a great neighbor and our dog loves him so much!” etc. She as she continued to talk (and as I continued to agree and show gratefulness towards people who are supporting them) my mom started to get angrier and angrier. I couldn’t figure out why. I thought I was imagining it, and then as she kept going I realized I wasn't imagining it: She was talking about how supportive everyone else was being, but in a way that was meant to make ME feel guilty.  So once I realized she was doing this, I just stayed calm. I didn’t bring it up, just let her continue to talk and continued to express my mutual gratitude about the support system. Then my mom switched tactics and started to talk about how they only wanted to focus on the positives and things they were looking forward to and things that would “bring them joy”. And she started listing off all the events/trips they are anticipating in the next two years that will “bring them joy” - and she left my wedding out of that list. You guys….this second half of the conversation was designed to hurt me and make me feel guilty about the boundary I’ve enforced that limits my mom’s involvement in my wedding.  It hurt especially because at one point, I did say to her “I wish I was there with you guys to help in person”. And her exact reply was “We’re fine, your sister and brother-in-law are all the support we need. THEY bring us so much joy”. I kept reminding myself during the call that she is agony right now over dad’s prognosis, and unfortunately, the ongoing argument between her/me has become her anger outlet. I have done my best to be supportive from afar, though it never feels like enough. I’ve been sending packages with skin care products to keep Dad’s skin healthy, masks for him to wear in public, etc. I’ve been talking to him on the phone, sending him funny emails while he’s at work, sending books for him to read on chemo days. I’ve sent flowers to his hospital room, fielded calls from my mom when she is upset, reassured them both. During Dad’s first chemo treatment, the docs gave him a bone steroid drug that he has a horrible reaction to. He was in tremendous pain for three days, had a 103 fever and was nearly hospitalized. I spent hours researching online and discovered that they speed at which they gave him the drug was possibly too fast and that the severe reaction could be lessened if it was administered at a slower pace. I told my mom about this, and she told the doctor. The next time he was given the drug, my mom insisted on the slower administration, so the hospital did it slower. It worked! He didn’t have ANY pain the last time he got the drug, and the doctor confirmed afterwards that it the slower dosage was why. Of course, none of this support was acknowledged at all during the phone conversation. As we got towards the end of the phone call and it was clear I wasn’t going to acknowledge the attack she was making on me, she got more angry. I told her that she was doing a great job of taking care of dad, and that I hoped she would be open with me about what SHE needs during this process (i.e. if there were days where she needed a break from talking about cancer and just wanted to talk about something else, etc…). She BLEW UP at me. She said that the last few weeks have been the most painful of her life because of my wedding restrictions and “how I’ve treated her” and that I had “no idea how much damage/pain I have caused her and dad” She then hung up on me.

Now I fear she won’t “let” me be involved with my dad unless I say I’m sorry and admit that I was wrong to “treat her the way I did”. I don’t know what to do. My dad is a total pushover enabler who has no idea about mom’s BPD, insists that he “deserves it” when she screams at him and calls him stupid, and for decades has been not allowed to have his own thoughts/emotions unless they are inline with what my mom thinks. At this point, I’m less concerned about my mom being mad at me, though of course I don’t want to add to her pain in anyway. I just want things to be okay with me and my dad. The more I read about BPD, the more I’m coming to realize that I don’t have control over my mom’s anger/abandonment issues.  But I can’t bear the thought of my dad dying and having his feelings still hurt by me. It’s difficult because he isn’t personally mad at me, he’s only mad at me on my mom’s behalf. But if I can’t resolve the issue with Mom, how can I hope to resolve things with him? I FINALLY enforce a boundary with my uBPDmom, and she is trying to guilt me into admitting I was wrong to do so because I’m “making things hard on them while my dad has cancer”. I don’t even know what “right” is anymore.

[BluePearl]

I just emailed my T to see if I could set up an “urgent appointment” of sorts, but until I hear back I’m hoping to find some solace here. In a nutshell, I’ve realized recently that my mom is uBPD. We also just found out that my dad has terminal cancer, with a life expectancy of 4-5 years. 3 months before dad’s diagnosis, I got engaged and began planning a wedding. All of this is triggering my mom’s traits. :'(

My DF and I  are engaged and in the process of planning our May 2017 wedding. 3 days after getting engaged, my dad told my fiance how important it was that we get married in Chicago. My dad said that none of our family could attend a California wedding. He was 100% acting as a megaphone for my mom. I know this because for years, even before I met my DF, my mom has always been very vocal about what she expects for my wedding. She was the wedding planner for my sister’s wedding, along with a few other family parties. My mom and I have very different views for my wedding, but her view is always “right” and my preferences are “selfish”. Even before meeting my DF, I knew I wanted a small intimate wedding here in California. My DF wants the same. He and I are very much on the same page with our wedding preferences.

Both of our families live far away (his family is in Vancouver Canada, my family is in Chicago). Besides California being the place where we plan to continue building our lives together, we also thought that a California wedding would keep the financial/logistical burden distributed evenly between our two families. We understand that traveling anywhere for a wedding is expensive, so we have no hard feelings about anyone who can’t make the trip. But then we made a mistake. 3 days after getting engaged (after I was screamed at by my mom on the phone for 2 hours about how I was a horrible daughter for not prioritizing my own family), we let my mom talk us into considering a Chicago wedding. After being told several times that I would be permanently destroying relationships with my family if I didn’t honor their requests, DF/I told my mom that we would seriously consider some Chicago venues. We currently have appointments set up in May to see three Chicago venues. Once word about the Chicago venues got around to DF’s family, they started getting very angry too. To appease them, we now have appointments set up in April to see their Vancouver venues next month. To be clear, neither DF or I want to get married in Chicago/Vancouver... .but we really want to make our families happy. We are both people pleasers, and have been very open to foregoing our own wedding preferences in favor of making our families happy.

At the very beginning, my parents offered ~$5,000 towards our wedding. It quickly became clear that the money had strings attached. Anytime I mentioned something wedding-related to my mom that she didn’t agree with, she would get VERY angry with me. For example, I told her that I was excited about the wedding invitations that I was designing, and she got angry over the way that I was going to address the envelopes. She said I would be seriously offending people if I didn’t address couples by their husband’s full name (i.e. Mr. and Mrs. John Doe). I told her I’d consider her recommendation, but that I had done research online and found out that it is now considered formal to address them as “Mr. John Doe and Mrs. Jane Doe”, and that it was important to me that women/men be addressed equally at an event that is symbolic of my/DF’s relationship.  Over the next few days, she texted me repeatedly about needing to talk about the invitations. So I talked to her on the phone and she kept insisting about addressing the invitations “her” way, and how she wasn’t able to sleep the night before because it was keeping her up late. So yeah, it’s been like this with a LOT of the wedding elements. After my mom wrote me an email threatening to not come wedding dress shopping with me unless I gave in and let her attend the Chicago venue interviews (something my DF and I are VERY uncomfortable with), I decided I’d had ENOUGH. I was tired of being guilted/screamed at into submission. With the support of my T, I decided to send my mom a boundary-setting email (the first boundary I’ve ever set with mom). It read like this:



Hi Mom,

Thank you for your email. I'm glad you told me how you feel and I'm very sorry that my actions and decisions are causing you heartache. I feel as though you assume that you'll be involved in every aspect of the wedding planning, which (I think) is why you feel like you're being excluded. There are a ton of things I'd love for you to be heavily involved with (reception ideas, decor, flowers, cake, centerpieces, having both you and dad walking me down the aisle... .and lots more). There are also things I don't want you to be in charge of - not because I want to exclude you personally, but because I want to do those things on my own, or with [DF], or with someone else. This isn't meant to exclude you specifically - but since you've already assumed your involvement in every element, I fear I'll often be in the position of having to tell you that certain tasks have already been slated for someone else. I know this isn't the all-access wedding planner role you want, but I hope you can acknowledge that it's a reasonable/common mother-of-the-bride role. I hope you'll give it a chance. I think if you refocus on all the things I'm eager to have your help on, you won't find yourself mourning the things you aren't in charge of.

For example, [DF] and I are really looking forward to doing the first visits to the Chicago venues on our own. That doesn't mean we wouldn't need/value your input down the road, but we're actually excited about being our own wedding planners during this early stage of vendor interviews and decision making. So we will be doing these first venue visits on our own.

You are right to say that planning a wedding is significant for the mother of the bride. I agree with you on that. But this wedding is first and foremost a symbol of my/[DF’s] relationship, and therefore, the decisions should be made based on our preferences - not based on our mother/daughter relationship. I'm excited to hear your advice on everything, but [DF] and I will be making the final call on all wedding decisions. I understand that this declaration could have ramifications on your feelings about the wedding and on your willingness to contribute money. Which brings me to this: I want you and Dad to know how much I appreciate the money you've saved for this wedding. That money represents love, years of hard work, and tremendous sacrifice - especially considering the expensive medical costs that have been plaguing you both for some time. Thank you both for offering the money, and by doing so, placing our happiness/financial well-being above your own. I hope that some day that [DF] and I can work hard enough and save carefully to provide the same offer to our kids. But if the condition I've laid out (which is that he/I get to make all final decisions) is not acceptable, then we both 100% would understand if you/Dad no longer feel willing to offer financial assistance. It is your money, you have every right to decide how it gets used. Considering Dad's medical bills, it would give me a lot of peace to know that the money was easing some of the financial burden that you both are facing.

I love you, and I hope that we can find a way to stop hurting each other.


My mom refused to talk to me for three weeks after I sent that email.

Last month we found out that my dad has cancer. The doctors have been great, but yesterday they delivered the really bad news: it’s terminal cancer. There is a possibility that he could beat the odds and live up to 15 years, but it’s more than likely that he is facing 4-5 years of debilitating medical treatment and will succumb to the cancer during that time. I called my mom last night to receive this information. Before I start complaining about my mom, let’s be clear: she is in agony right now. I can not imagine the pain she is going through, knowing that her husband/love of her life is going to deteriorate and die and leave her alone the rest of her life. I have a lot of empathy for her. And despite the argument, I still want to be very supportive.

That being said, shortly after we originally found the cancer in February, I came to the realization that my mom has BPD traits. She is not diagnosed, but my T suggested the possibility of BPD after I read T some emails my mom wrote to me. T recommended that I read “Walking On Eggshells”, which I did. The book lead me to a realization that is still taking some time to settle in my mind: my mom has uBPD or traits, and those traits/behaviors are being triggered by my wedding. Add that to the fact that my mom LOVES wedding planning and has always assumed that she would be my wedding planner….well, it’s a huge abandonment trigger for her. And THEN she finds out that her husband is dying. She is in crisis right now, losing her husband and daughter. I say all this so you guys can understand why the phone conversation from last night went the way it did, which was like this:

The first part of the phone call was focused on dad’s prognosis. She talked about everything the doctors had said earlier that day, everything we need to be prepared for (the complications, the mortality, etc). I listened, affirmed that my mom was doing an amazing job as a caregiver, thanked her over and over for sharing the information, offered my continued support in whatever way she/dad need…. But as the phone call went on, the tone of the conversation changed. She started listing all the people who were being supportive and at first I didn’t think anything of it. I was genuinely agreeing with her, saying “I’m so glad Randy has offered to watch the dog while you guys are at the chemo treatments, he’s such a great neighbor and our dog loves him so much!” etc. She as she continued to talk (and as I continued to agree and show gratefulness towards people who are supporting them) my mom started to get angrier and angrier. I couldn’t figure out why. I thought I was imagining it, and then as she kept going I realized I wasn't imagining it: She was talking about how supportive everyone else was being, but in a way that was meant to make ME feel guilty.  So once I realized she was doing this, I just stayed calm. I didn’t bring it up, just let her continue to talk and continued to express my mutual gratitude about the support system. Then my mom switched tactics and started to talk about how they only wanted to focus on the positives and things they were looking forward to and things that would “bring them joy”. And she started listing off all the events/trips they are anticipating in the next two years that will “bring them joy” - and she left my wedding out of that list. You guys….this second half of the conversation was designed to hurt me and make me feel guilty about the boundary I’ve enforced that limits my mom’s involvement in my wedding.  It hurt especially because at one point, I did say to her “I wish I was there with you guys to help in person”. And her exact reply was “We’re fine, your sister and brother-in-law are all the support we need. THEY bring us so much joy”. I kept reminding myself during the call that she is agony right now over dad’s prognosis, and unfortunately, the ongoing argument between her/me has become her anger outlet. I have done my best to be supportive from afar, though it never feels like enough. I’ve been sending packages with skin care products to keep Dad’s skin healthy, masks for him to wear in public, etc. I’ve been talking to him on the phone, sending him funny emails while he’s at work, sending books for him to read on chemo days. I’ve sent flowers to his hospital room, fielded calls from my mom when she is upset, reassured them both. During Dad’s first chemo treatment, the docs gave him a bone steroid drug that he has a horrible reaction to. He was in tremendous pain for three days, had a 103 fever and was nearly hospitalized. I spent hours researching online and discovered that they speed at which they gave him the drug was possibly too fast and that the severe reaction could be lessened if it was administered at a slower pace. I told my mom about this, and she told the doctor. The next time he was given the drug, my mom insisted on the slower administration, so the hospital did it slower. It worked! He didn’t have ANY pain the last time he got the drug, and the doctor confirmed afterwards that it the slower dosage was why. Of course, none of this support was acknowledged at all during the phone conversation. As we got towards the end of the phone call and it was clear I wasn’t going to acknowledge the attack she was making on me, she got more angry. I told her that she was doing a great job of taking care of dad, and that I hoped she would be open with me about what SHE needs during this process (i.e. if there were days where she needed a break from talking about cancer and just wanted to talk about something else, etc…). She BLEW UP at me. She said that the last few weeks have been the most painful of her life because of my wedding restrictions and “how I’ve treated her” and that I had “no idea how much damage/pain I have caused her and dad” She then hung up on me.

Now I fear she won’t “let” me be involved with my dad unless I say I’m sorry and admit that I was wrong to “treat her the way I did”. I don’t know what to do. My dad is a total pushover enabler who has no idea about mom’s BPD, insists that he “deserves it” when she screams at him and calls him stupid, and for decades has been not allowed to have his own thoughts/emotions unless they are inline with what my mom thinks. At this point, I’m less concerned about my mom being mad at me, though of course I don’t want to add to her pain in anyway. I just want things to be okay with me and my dad. The more I read about BPD, the more I’m coming to realize that I don’t have control over my mom’s anger/abandonment issues.  But I can’t bear the thought of my dad dying and having his feelings still hurt by me. It’s difficult because he isn’t personally mad at me, he’s only mad at me on my mom’s behalf. But if I can’t resolve the issue with Mom, how can I hope to resolve things with him? I FINALLY enforce a boundary with my uBPDmom, and she is trying to guilt me into admitting I was wrong to do so because I’m “making things hard on them while my dad has cancer”. I don’t even know what “right” is anymore.

[Turkish]

Hi BluePearl,

I'm sorry to hear about your dad. 

Normally, this would be the time to spend it in quality, helping, dealing with the natural emotions in such a situation. Unfortunately, your mom is in the mix, making it all about her.

I'm glad that you have compassion for her dealing with the coming loss of your dad and her husband. Empathizing is showing love, even if she is incapable of seeing it. However, you're not responsible for her feelings. I hope that you can stay connected with your dad, apart from her interference, and this sounds tough.

The wedding:

First, congralutations!

Second: Family. 

While it's good to honor our parents, I think that you've gine above and beyond. It's sad that due to one person's narcissistic demands that it's caused friction with your in-laws. You've asserted some boundaries, but giving a little, your mom has taken miles in her mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with your original plans. pwBPD (people with BPD) see no boindaries. Growing up in such an environment, it's hard to see boundaries on our side.

You've comitted to traveling. Do you want to walk this back to the original plan in the end?

Turkish

[Notwendy]

Hi Blue Pearl,

I am sorry about your father. Years ago, when my father became seriously ill ( he is now deceased) it exacerbated my mother's BPD. If one considers that pw BPD have difficulty managing their feelings, and that this situation is very difficult emotionally for everyone, someone with BPD would likely not handle things well.

It was decades ago that I got married. I didn't know about BPD at the time. I was raised to be quite the people pleaser. In my FOO, we had to obey my mother. Any money/wedding plans not only came with strings. It was her wedding. I basically went along with it. She did a beautiful job - planning, decorations. Most of the guests were her friends and family. It was basically her wedding. I wouldn't have even known how to argue or negotiate my own wishes with her.

Over the years I have learned about BPD and boundaries. I am empathizing with your situation. There may be no way to do what you want and make your parents happy at the same time. This is what I had to do to keep mine happy at the time and I have learned that I can make my own choices, but I have to also not accept money from them for those choices. Money from my parents comes with strings attached.

While I believe a couple should have the wedding they want, I also think that weddings are multigenerational- two families coming together. This can involve some compromise. Just as I felt my wedding was all about my mother and her generation, I have attended some weddings where guests over 45 felt alienated. I don't see where this would be a problem - you do want to include your parents' wishes, as well as yours, but compromise is difficult with parents who aren't willing to consider your wishes.

Then, there is the case of your father's health. I feel for you, because, when I stood up for myself, my mother did come between us and alienated him from me. It  was heartbreaking. Yet, it was not good for me or my own family to continue to be her doormat and it isn't good for you to be a doormat either. I didn't have a wedding at the time, but there was plenty of other reasons my mother could come up with to blame me for her feelings, so know that it isn't you but your mother's projections that are the reason for this.

You can't please all parties. Having some boundaries is important otherwise it seems the two families will want what they want. However, one consideration is that your father may truly not be able to travel, physically and you really want to have him be there. One good thing about wedding trends is that they are becoming less traditional. Some couples have had more than one wedding. An idea would be to be married in Chicago with a reception there and have it mainly their family/friends. Of course your mother may take this and run with it, but one boundary could be- their way/they pay. If 5K is it, then this is the amount you spend- ceremony, then some light refreshments. Invite your in laws and it is up to them to attend or not. Then, you could let them host a reception in your honor in their home town- their way, they pay. Then, you and your DF host your own event as you like it in California. These are just ideas, but when families have physical travel limitations, ( and are not willing to compromise) it may take being creative.

[Notwendy]

In general, I am an advocate for young couples establishing good boundaries with parents, especially parents who don't respect boundaries. If your families expect to be pleased, then this is likely to continue- holidays their way, who gets to see grandkids. The wedding would be a good place to start, the statement- we are starting our own family unit.

The complication here is the health of your father. I think if the two of you can gain some clarity on how to accommodate this, while not trying to please everyone, then you can make decisions.

It is sad when families take a "my way or else" approach with their adult children.

[BluePearl]

Turkish: Thank you so much for your reply! And thank you for reminding me that I'm not responsible for my mom's feelings. It really helps me to detach from her (which I am desperately seeking right now). Since writing my original post, I've managed to start having weekly phone conversations with my dad. The length of these phone calls is usually/unfortunately determined by whether or not my mom is mad at me (if she if, dad will only talk to me for ~4 minutes, if she isn't mad then dad will talk to me for longer). It's a slow process and a small step, but I really feel like these phone conversations are helping my dad/I. Mom is still asking about wedding details, but much less aggressively. I believe my email was somewhat effective in getting her to back off. So now I am just using Medium Chill techniques any time she does ask about wedding things. I'm friendly, give her a few bland details, and then move the conversation on. I've  come to realize that it's not my wedding's responsibility to make her happy.

Notwendy: Firstly, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. It's horrible that your mom wedged herself between you and your dad. I hope you have every possible comfort available to you, and a support group of kind people around you.   You are 100% correct: my father's illness has definitely made her BPD traits come out in full force. His diagnosis came 1 month after my engagement, which is another huge trigger for her. As angry as I am with her, I can still empathize with the fact that she's had two HUGE triggers occur simultaneously. That being said, I know how to protect myself now. I am doing the best I can to stay close with my dad, despite my mom trying to pull him into her anger. I feel like my boundaries and efforts have disabled my mom's ability to control the relationship I have with my dad. One thing you said really stuck with me: "it was not good for me or my own family to continue to be her doormat". YES, this! I know now that I would ultimately be hurting my mom/family mom if I continue to enable her behavior. And as you yourself predicted, my dad's ability to travel is now very limited. As such, my fiance and I have decided to have the wedding in Chicago (near my parents). Getting married in Chicago so that my dad can attend is something DF and I feel very comfortable with. DF and I have been coming up with good ideas for the wedding - things that will make him feel at home and honor family members who can't travel. Again, thank you for your counsel and for sharing the story about your dad. Though I'm so sorry you had to go through it, it helps to know I'm not alone in this experience.

[Notwendy]

Thanks BluePearl- it was hard to lose my dad, and my condolences to you on facing your father's illness. My mother monitored our phone calls too. Sometimes she would pick up the phone and he would hang up, or she would listen. But call your dad anyway, as much as you can, so you can talk to him even if the call is short.

It is great that you are having the wedding near them so that he can attend. That will mean so much to both of you. I know you will take lots of pictures of the two of you. I hope it is just a wonderful celebration of you and your fiance's future together, albeit bittersweet knowing your father is ill.

There is no getting around the sadness. I miss my dad. I do have a support system- my own family and your new family will be a comfort to you. I hope that the two of you can spend some time together. But also be happy and look towards the future- your wedding,  your future family.

Speaking of support systems- when I was setting boundaries with my FOO for the first time, and dealing with family drama, I did seek out counseling from a counselor experienced with BPD. Sometimes family drama and grief can overwhelm even the best of spouses and friends. Also, friends and spouse tend to take our sides on things and don't see us as objectively as a counselor who can also call us out on things we could do better. So keep this in mind if you feel you need it.

Best wishes on a lovely wedding and for some wonderful time spent with your father.

[BluePearl]

Hi NotWendy,

Thank you for your reply, and again for sharing your story about your dad. I don't know what a person goes through when they lose a parent. I think maybe no one can understand it totally unless they themselves have experienced it. And I'm so very sorry you had to go through it yourself. I'm sorry you lost your dad, that you had to witness him in discomfort and fear. Those memories are painful and hard to cope with.   I hope that among the hard times/memories you have, that there are other memories full of love and happiness with your dad. 

Update: I spoke with my mom on the phone yesterday, and the situation escalated again. She was unhappy with her Mother's Day gift. I had bought her a $50 gift certificate towards a massage at her favorite spa. She didn't feel I spent enough money on it because it didn't cover the entire cost of the massage.   I told her that the price of the gift was a decision that felt emotionally and financially healthy to me. When her guilt tripping didn't have the desired effect of making me feel guilty, she then accused me of being selfish by putting my own needs before the needs of my family. Specifically, she wants me to "make things right with her" and fix our relationship (so basically stop being angry at her) because it is causing problems for the entire family (somehow a problem between her and I = a problem with me and my entire FOO) at a time when we should all just be focusing on dad and his terminal cancer. She is suggesting that by choosing *not* to fix things with her, that I am selfishly prioritizing what I need over what my dying dad needs. Now obviously, I am trying to fix things with her. I am trying to give myself space and time away from her to that I can process and move past the anger and pain she has caused me, and then move on in our relationship. But of course she doesn't see that as a fix... .she sees my need to heal as the problem. 

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on this:

Although I'm admittedly very angry at my mom, there is an element of truth to what my mom is stating. Theoretically, I *could* pretend that I forgive her, that I want to fix things, talk to her more, re-involve her in my life. Obviously I know that this is not a true fix at all.  I 100% know how emotionally unhealthy it would be for me to do that. I would still be angry with my mom, and our relationship would continue to suffer because of my anger. But I've been thinking a a lot about what Notwendy said in reply to my post: "Yet, it was not good for me or my own family to continue to be her doormat and it isn't good for you to be a doormat either." In my case, I'm wondering what good my anti-doormat stance is doing for my family. I understand that if I were to go back to enabling my mom's bad BPD traits causes damage to her because it reinforces behaviors that are damaging to her own mental health (whether she realizes it or not), but she has plenty of other family members who will enable her BPD behavior without protest. She may continue to push back against my boundaries and make this extinction phase last a long time. What if it lasts the rest of my dad's life, which might not be very long? My dad is a total enabler, unaware that mom has a problem. And when mom is mad at me, dad refuses to talk to me too. That's the hardest part.

Don't worry - I'm not in any danger of giving in to her or letting her cross my boundaries. And I'm not upset with my family members for not standing up to her. I can tell that they are doing the best they can in their own situations and want to give my mom (my dad's primary caregiver) all the support she needs. And if ever there were a time where my mom had a right to demand extra support, it would be now. I myself was a life long victim of “caving in so that mom doesn’t get pissed at me". I don't fault my other family members for still being trapped in that type of relationship dynamic with mom.

But I am struggling right now to see what "good" I'm doing for my family in my particular situation. Maybe the truth is that I'm *not* doing any good for my family. Maybe I'm only doing good for myself. In which case, is that something I can feel comfortable with?

[Notwendy]

That is a good question, and I will answer it for you as honestly as I can. I don't regret that I chose to establish boundaries, not be a doormat, not be co-dependent and grow away from my family dysfunction.

What I do regret is that I was naive, and made some mistakes because of being naive and not as informed about BPD and the dynamics in my family and while I do not regret the mistakes- because it it inevitable that this kind of thing has ups and downs and can cause emotional waves ( tsumanis) in families- I do regret the unfortunate timing.  But I didn't know this and knowing what I do now thanks to the personal work and co-dependency work, I would have realized that my reactivity ( being triggered by them ) was part of it, and by working on that, I could have handled my part better.

You know hindsight is 20-20 and I had just had it with my mother. It was affecting my own sanity. I was dealing with the inevitable loss of my father, who was really my only parent as far as I was concerned. But one thing that made the situation more urgent for me was that I was a mother at that point, and I feared that my FOO dysfunction would make it hard for me to be emotionally available. So for me at the time, I felt there was no other choice at the time.

But because I was naive I did not expect was that once my mother became angry at me, she unleashed that full force on my father's relationship with me. In his weakened state he could not stand up to her- not sure he would have anyway but he could not and her wrath at me destroyed our relationship. I didn't know that the price I would pay for standing up to her was to lose him, but they are a unit and what she is he is too. I naively assumed they were two different people but in families without boundaries they were one and the same. When it came to dad, any opposition to mom would result in her having her way. It sounds like your parents are similar.

I had no idea then what would happen but I had to change. However, the timing was not good. If my father had been younger, or healthier, the same thing would have happened, but there would be hope, hope for reconciliation in the future. One of the hardest parts of losing him was that there would be no hope for that for me.

Do I have memories? You betcha. And one of ( many ) of them is special. When we were getting ready for my wedding, I was in a room with the wedding party. I have an adorable picture of my father fixing my brother's tie. He helped me with the preparations. Where was mom? Off making herself beautiful- getting her hair done, makeup, but my Daddy was with me and the wedding party. And I have another one of him walking me down the aisle.

So, if at all possible, I hope that you will make these memories for you too, as they will console you in those dark moments that will sadly come for you only too soon.

How will you do this and continue to grow as an independent person? By learning about BPD and families, and how to deal with that better- the lessons on the side of this board can help. By getting counseling from someone with training in how BPD families behave, and taking care of your feelings- your anger- on your part. And you have every right to be angry and yet, if showing it now will backfire and affect your father you may just want to get it out in a therapists office for now.

But I did let it loose. I was understandably upset and angry. She called me while I was out shopping once- and I let her have it, in public, in the middle of the store screaming at her.  Wonder why someone didn't lock me up at that point, I had just lost it. And when I was grieving too, cried in public, didn't even care. The feelings are real, so let someone help you process them.

If you do this, you will be able to achieve your goals with your mother better. Also because anger and rejection ( and reaction) on the part of the family you are changing from is par for the course, but the timing of this may not be the best time. So it isn't that you stop your changing or growing, that is vital to you, but that you shift the focus to more work with you, less reacting to them and do it in a more subtle way, for now.

But ultimately, your own growth is vital and that can not stand still or stop once you know you have to do it. Doing this work on yourself, your emotional growth- will inevitably help you enforce your boundaries with her better in the future. Yes, you can think of you, and you should! and likely they won't. Enmeshed families are self centered, and your parents want what they want for them. But I think what you want too is some peaceful time with your father, and finding ways to do that without selling yourself short is challenging, but consider it may be worth a try for now.

[Notwendy]

I want to address this idea- especially the one of a double bind. I share my story in hopes that it is helpful to you-

Update: I spoke with my mom on the phone yesterday, and the situation escalated again. She was unhappy with her Mother's Day gift. I had bought her a $50 gift certificate towards a massage at her favorite spa. She didn't feel I spent enough money on it because it didn't cover the entire cost of the massage.  rolleyes I told her that the price of the gift was a decision that felt emotionally and financially healthy to me. When her guilt tripping didn't have the desired effect of making me feel guilty, she then accused me of being selfish by putting my own needs before the needs of my family. Specifically, she wants me to "make things right with her" and fix our relationship


First of all, when she puts the impetus on you to "fix" the relationship, she is basically taking "victim" mode. The double bind is when someone puts a task in your hands, and then makes it impossible to achieve the task because nothing you do is good enough.

There may also be a benefit to putting you in persecutor mode at this time. ( read the drama triangle). Times of great stress for dysfunctional families can have a release valve by making someone the scapegoat. So while I do have some thoughts about things I might have been more knowledgeable about when my father was ill, I was also aware that when they were both angry at me, they were less angry at each other- and this may have given them some stability at the time.

One thing I considered is that things may have been the way they were no matter how hard I tried, and I did. Once I realized that my father was angry at me, I did try to reconcile. I did become more compliant and less argumentative, but it was his choice to continue to be angry. So, I wish to console you, that, there may be little you can do to change your position as persecutor- because they put you in that role and it in ways may work for them at this time. I also don't blame my parents. They didn't know about these dynamics. They just enacted them in the only ways they knew. I didn't know about them either, and I felt that they were being cruel to me, but that was just being on the drama triangle as well. It is the main way my, and many of these families only way they know how to interact.

So for the present you got your mom. This was a no win situation, a double bind. She expects you to make her feel better, but her bad feelings are from her, being projected on to you. So they have little to do with you. If you had sent her a $300 gift certificate, she would say it wasn't good enough because it wasn't $400. This isn't about you, but her projections.

One thing that worried my father was what would happen to my mother when he was gone. He was worried about her. But he was not worried about me- I am a strong person, but I think this may have caused him to overlook just how scared, and sad I felt at the prospect of his death. Your father may not be as worried about your feelings because you have your husband to be, and so he may be more focused on the person he feels responsible for- your mother.

Also anger is part of the dying process. He was angry- not just at me, but at the process. I did read a book written by a daughter about her angry aging father, and this helped me to understand it better.

They did get angry at my sibs as well. One recalls a scene where my mother was lovingly holding my father discussing how disappointed they were in us. Ugh, but then I thought well if this gives them some good times together, maybe we should just let it be.

What I am trying to say to you is this: do what you need to do for yourself- to know that you tried your best to have the best possible relationship with your father, however, do not blame yourself if you don't succeed. Also you do not have to reduce yourself to the impossible task of trying to appease her by violating your own boundaries with her- because it doesn't work anyway and it diminishes your self esteem. You do the best you can to uphold your boundaries and your ethics, because that is on you. Try to be true to yourself while not over reacting to them if you can. However, your parents have choices. They may choose to stay angry at you, as a way to deal with the anger at the moment and also as a result of their dynamics. That is on them.

Ironically, I have come to a better place with my mother because of my boundaries and emotional work. I can treat her with compassion while not being emotionally triggered by her. That is a big step for me. But the great thing about any work we do on ourselves is that it allows us to be better people in all our relationships. Your parents may not like the changes in you at first, but if they are done with regard to you being your better self, I think they will be for good.

[BluePearl]

Hi Notwendy,

I can't thank you enough for your timely and empathetic replies. They really saved me these past few days.   Again, I think we are all doing the best we can to make difficult decisions during hard times. You've had to make so many of these difficult decisions and often faced a lot of opposition from people that should be supportive of your emotional health. You were put on the defensive which is a sad place to be, especially while coping with your dad's health. I can't tell you how much I feel your pain and admire the strength you've shown. It makes me feel like I'm capable of being strong as well.

Speaking of strength, I've been thinking a lot about my mom's emotional strength. I don't think any of us know how strong we can be until we're tested. My mom is going to lose the love of her life to cancer within the foreseeable future. She is also his caregiver, a daily intimate witness to his pain, fatigue, side effects, fear, and sadness. You made a wise observation about her having a more visible/higher need for emotional support. I live 2000 miles away from my family. While I work hard to stay connected with my family, I'm not witnessing/experiencing my dad's daily struggle and pain. My mom is. Being conscious of this helps me a lot of ways. One, it helps me maintain my empathy for her. Two, it helps me understand why she is offloading her anger onto me (she can't cope with that emotion by herself). And three, it prevents me from feeling let down by my mom for overlooking/dismissing my sadness and heartache. Notwendy, you said, "Ironically, I have come to a better place with my mother because of my boundaries and emotional work. I can treat her with compassion while not being emotionally triggered by her." Yes, THIS is what I want too. I doubt your mom will ever commend you or understand the tremendous amount of work you did to better the relationship between the two of you, so let me say it: you did an amazing thing, the best thing that anyone could have done, and you deserve some praise for that.   

The double bind idea... .yeah, that is happening hard core right now. During our last phone call, uBPDmom accused me of "not being empathetic enough" about my dad's cancer. Seriously... .she said that I'm not sad enough that my dad is dying. I did not even entertain that ridiculous accusation with a reply.  The truth is that the last few times I shared my feelings with her, she completely shut me down.  :'(

Mom: "This cancer will kill your dad, and it will happen sooner rather later."

Me: *crying* "I'm so sad for him, for us. I wish this wasn't happening to him. I don't want him to be in pain. I wish there was more we could do."

Mom: (in an angry tone) "Well we can't. This is the reality."

The conversation then moved on other topics that she was angry at me about, i.e. how much unhappiness my upcoming wedding is causing her.

I know my mom is in agony over this, and I unfortunately have become the target of her cancer-related anger. As you rightly pointed out Notwendy, I may need to reconcile and prepare myself for being her anger outlet. I'm getting better at protecting myself emotionally from this kind of invalidation/attack, but it's no mystery why I don't feel comfortable sharing my feelings her. She is not an emotionally safe space for me. Another suggestion you made seemed particularly insightful: that it's easier for my parents to be anger at me than it is for them to be angry with each other. I really believe this rings true in their case. My dad has a history of being lax about his health, which angers my mom a lot. I've witnessed countless "arguments" where my dad would sit in silence for 2-3 hours while my mom screams and cries at him - basically until she has offloaded enough of her own emotions onto him. She is irate and inconsolable during these discussions.

Also, thank you so much for telling me about the "drama triangle". I'd come across this term before but hadn't seriously looked into it until now. I now realize that for most of my life, our family dynamic has circled around mom as the Victim, with me as the Rescuer, and Dad as the Persecutor. Since I started therapy, I've become the Persecutor and Dad has switched to Rescuer (in mom's eyes). Mom remains the Victim. Without realizing it, I think I've been doing a good job of moving towards the middle of the triangle. Medium chill has been useful for me in that way. It allows me to me break away from the drama cycle that use to guide our conversations.

I am definitely working with a therapist, and have been for a few months. My T has taught me how to prioritize my emotional health - something I didn't know I was "allowed" to do until I started working with her. She also taught me that it's okay to do something healthy for myself even if that decision makes my parents unhappy. I'm not on some vendetta to do things that I know will defy them. But I am now able to recognize how much I use to allow my mom to treat me in emotionally harmful ways.

[Notwendy]

Hi Bluepearl, it is a consolation to me that my experience can help others.

I know that my mother is not able to be any consolation to me. Throughout this event, she had no clue what I was feeling. Her perception of me is the sum of her projections. Also know that in narcissistic and BPD families, children are perceived as what they can do for the parents, the parents are not about what they can do to support them emotionally.

I knew this before my father became ill, not since I was a teen, was my mother able to have empathy for me or anyone else. However, what surprised me was neither does her FOO. They had no sympathy whatsoever for me- and after my father died- I heard nothing from them, not a call, not a card. On my father's side, relatives did call to ask me how I was doing.

Please get your support system in place. Also the grief can be a lot for one person. Your fiance can be empathetic, but he could also be overwhelmed. It is good to have therapists and other support people to help you.

Yes, the triangle. My mother's usual position was victim. I was rescuer, and so was dad, but during this time, they saw me as persecutor. When you are in that position, they can not see that you feel hurt, they only see you as hurting them. Understanding this helps.

By the time my father passed away, I seriously contemplated not attending the funeral, not because I didn't want to pay respects for my father, but because I was very distraught and the idea of seeing all these people who had not been empathetic made the whole idea worse. However, my kids wanted to go, and because I supported their wishes, I went too. Afterwards, I was not sure I would have contact with my mother or not. It took me a while to even be able to see her, and it was hard to be in her home without my father's presence there.

I think it is fair to assume that in their present state of distress, neither of your parents would be able to acknowledge your feelings. What I did do was call my father almost every day. I also live a distance from them. Most of the time, mom would listen in,  but if I called and she happened to be out - that was great. I feel I did the best I could in the situation to try to make contact with him.

Also know that what your mom is saying about you is a projection. She on one hand is losing her life long partner, and is grieving, but she may also be resentful of the situation. Recall that pw BPD do not manage their uncomfortable emotions and so they rage and project. On the other hand you need your boundaries. You do not have to be the recipient of this - and for your own mental health, you should not be. If you take care of you- then you are actually more centered and can be more supportive to them.

I wanted to visit more, ( I am a distance but closer than you are) but sometimes when I did, they would both be angry at me. I couldn't handle that. It makes me sad to think my father probably thought I didn't care enough to see him more than I did- but I couldn't handle it at the time - and should not have because it was cruel and not good for me. This was a big step into self care and not being co-dependent. People who are used to you being that way may not like it when you change the way you interact with them, but when  we have to choose our well being or theirs- we need to choose ours.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself both sad and angry. Mostly I cried but sometimes I would be so angry, yelling up at the heavens " why did you not stand up for me?" " How could you let her treat your own daughter like she did?" but all those feelings are real, and normal, and to grieve you just gotta cry or scream, or both sometimes. But I also believed that if he could see any of it, he would know that I loved him.

They say time heals, and it does. The best part of your father stays with you. I hope that all of it is present at your wedding and in your future family you create with your husband.