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Author Topic: Please help me end this  (Read 3683 times)
Narkiss
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« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2016, 01:52:21 PM »

Yes, I have told him that before. And have stuck to it. He hasn't made a big deal out of it but has hinted that I could bring a child to visit him and in Wednesday when I told him he could stay with me (and he misunderstood thinking I meant with the kids), he said tenderly, "could I really? Thank you" and then started making excuses when he realized that was not what I meant.


I think he wants to meet them because to him, it would be another sign of how much I love and care about him and that I think he's a wonderful person who deserves to meet my children. Yes, it says something.
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HurtinNW
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« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2016, 02:12:52 PM »

Yes, I have told him that before. And have stuck to it. He hasn't made a big deal out of it but has hinted that I could bring a child to visit him and in Wednesday when I told him he could stay with me (and he misunderstood thinking I meant with the kids), he said tenderly, "could I really? Thank you" and then started making excuses when he realized that was not what I meant.


I think he wants to meet them because to him, it would be another sign of how much I love and care about him and that I think he's a wonderful person who deserves to meet my children. Yes, it says something.

I made the mistake of introducing my ex to my kids during the idealization phase. I thought I had found my soul mate, and during those first months my ex mirrored to the kids just as he did with me. Of course I didn't know then that was what was happening. I thought I had met the man who would be their stepfather. 

Looking back, there were lots of red flags. He was interested in them because it confirmed to himself he was an awesome person who is nice to everyone, and that I adored him and so did my kids. He didn't express interest in them as people, and seemed clueless that they would develop feelings for him, and that would mean him having to do things for them. Once the devaluing started he began treating them as irritants.

In the end his feelings for them were as flighty as his feelings for me. He walked in and out of their lives easily. In couples therapy later he admitted it didn't even occur to him that this would upset them. He is unable to grasp that his behaviors impact others. I have to own that I put my kids in this position.

So I think you are being very wise here, and I commend you for listening to your gut instinct!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Narkiss
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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2016, 08:08:28 PM »

That's the only thing I think I've done right. He also wants to see himself as a person who makes others happy. If you ask him what he wants--that's what he will say. Anyway, it's been a year. He has just created havoc in my life and stepped aside. To go back to my original question, how do I stay away? Or should I talk to him and lay it all on the line.
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Herodias
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« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2016, 08:18:21 PM »

Mine cancelled plans with me allot when he was involved with someone else at the end too. He cancelled plans allot period! You have to set your boundaries. Tell him to commit to come or not... .you don't have time for maybes... .I think we accept the behavior because they are mentally ill. They know we except it and they see how far they can push. Watch out for yourself and yes... .trusting your gut is key! The heart gets in the way... .Know what you truly want and if he is not providing it, you know what to do.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2016, 09:14:49 PM »

Anyway, it's been a year. He has just created havoc in my life and stepped aside. To go back to my original question, how do I stay away? Or should I talk to him and lay it all on the line.

What do you want? Talking to him works against staying away. (And last ditch "laying it on the line" doesn't usually go well... .)
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Narkiss
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« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2016, 11:27:57 AM »

Conflicted. My heart tells me to stay. My gut tells me to go. He is controlling (even with information. Everyone has a different piece of the story) and not quite truthful. He is married. For all I know, he is trying to find or has found a replacement. He is selfish and completely inconsistent. I could talk to him, and I can put things in a way that he understands and does not trigger him. But whatever he says -- and says wholeheartedly -- can change overnight.

This has been going on a year now. The relationship has not moved forward. About the only things that changed are that we are more attached and that I see him more clearly.

It would be easy if he raged at me.

My options are:

A. Leave and cut my losses (I will need help with this)

B. Commit, radically accept and hope for the best (this basically means throwing myself over a cliff for love)

C. Validate his stress, take things day by day, not have any expectations, perhaps even leave him alone until he gets his life figured out (he is losing his job. does not yet have another one). This may be the hardest of all.

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Penelope35
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« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2016, 11:37:45 AM »

Narkiss when you say he is married, do you mean like married but separated? Is he living with his wife?
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Narkiss
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« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2016, 12:02:03 PM »

Married, but separated. Sort of. When I met him, he told me that he was his wife had been separated for five years and live in different states. The plan was that they would get some estate things in order and get divorced. They do live in different states. He would go there once a month or so to deal with financial and other issues. She sounded so dysfunctional that I couldn't imagine that they would stay together (also she has always refused to leave her little town). Then I found a picture of them cuddling on the Internet (during a period of nc), which was devastating.

He still says they will get divorced. They are enmeshed (I told him this and suggested they get counseling and try to make it work).

I think they will get divorced but do not know when. He has acknowledged that he is not as separated as he led me to believe (also acknowledged that this is very painful to me and disappeared for a time). A friend pointed out that she and her family are so dysfunctional that he probably feels normal in comparison. She is currently caring for his father -- so more enmeshment. And of course, another excuse for him to visit.

Just to write this makes me feel like a fool for staying involved with him. (In my real life, I am a fully functioning human being)

Long ago, before I understood most of this, I asked him if he ever cheated. He said, no, that it was a decision not to. Well, that wasn't quite true also.
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Penelope35
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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2016, 12:31:09 PM »

So his marital situation is not clear and you also think he is trying to find or has already found another replacement. Narkiss I understand you are too emotionally involved in this. And I also understand that you are hoping all these will be sorted so that you can be together and committed only to each other. But what has history showed you up to now? Is this the kind of man you would want to be committed to? Is this really what you believe you deserve?

I have told you a short version of my story and you may have seen more of it on other posts.  I didn't even know  he was married and since I found out although he says they are not living as a couple I surely doubt that. I have been struggling since then to find out exactly what the relationship is with his wife. Even if BPD was not in the picture, there is no way I would even consider being with him if not everything was crystal clear. Put the BPD in the mix too where you don't know what's true and what's not, you know they don't let go of their attachments easily (at least yours and mine seem to be like that) and that he will always be in a constant search for new attachments. Do you really think you deserve to go with options B and C?
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2016, 12:48:15 PM »

Conflicted. My heart tells me to stay. My gut tells me to go. He is controlling (even with information. Everyone has a different piece of the story) and not quite truthful. He is married. For all I know, he is trying to find or has found a replacement. He is selfish and completely inconsistent. I could talk to him, and I can put things in a way that he understands and does not trigger him. But whatever he says -- and says wholeheartedly -- can change overnight.

This has been going on a year now. The relationship has not moved forward. About the only things that changed are that we are more attached and that I see him more clearly.

It would be easy if he raged at me.

You mean it would be easy for you to leave him for raging at you?

Personally I value truthfulness/honesty too highly to put up with that kind of deceit. I might tolerate the blowing in the wind from one day to the next or one mood to the next.

But those are my values, not yours... .or perhaps my choice on how highly I rank those values. I'm sure you value honesty, but perhaps would place other values over it that I would place under it, when push comes to shove.
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HurtinNW
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« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2016, 01:31:24 PM »

Narkiss, one thing that helped me was writing out an inventory. I wrote out what I wanted out of a relationship. I wrote out the existing reality. Then I wrote out my choices, all in detail. It really helped me see the "writing on the wall" to make a decision.

One of the difficult things about these relationships is finding out information once you have fallen in love. My ex was not married when we met, but he definitely didn't not accurately portray his situation. I often found things out in shades, which was reality bending.

For example, when we met he told me about a woman he said he had an affair years before. He claimed he felt bad and broke it off, and now they were friends. A year or more into the relationship I found out he had continued to see this woman for sex after he said he had broken it off. Three years into the relationship I found out he had seen this woman for sex for over ten years... .until not long before we started dating, as a matter of fact. I remember the gut-punch feeling of hearing that. It was deeply troubling to me, and by that time I was so much in the FOG I couldn't even name why. I value monogamy very much, and that he was capable of such a long-term affair was deeply concerning. But he had invalidated me for so long, and in such hurtful ways, that I believed him when he said I was overreacting.

I wrote elsewhere that during our last recycle, he invited me over to his place to have dinner. This was in one of our reconciliation phases. I got there and realized he had removed all traces of me from his home. The photo on the wall? The woman he had sex with all those years, that he knew I found upsetting.

I think it is good to decide our own values, as Grey Kitty says, and what we will put up with or not. For me infidelity and hurting my children are deal breakers. What are your deal breakers?






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Narkiss
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« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2016, 08:41:01 AM »

Because of all your help, I think I am beginning to turn a corner. Radical acceptance means seeing things how they are, but does not mean I have to accept them (I.e. continue a relationship). I miss him and think about him. But increasingly, this means thinking about how I feel and what I want (or even who he really is), rather than what he is doing, why he is doing it and how to affix him to me. For the time being, at least, I feel no desire to call him or talk to him. And when I do, I try to examine the feeling and see what really lies beneath.

For what it's worth, this whole thing started out wrong. In secrecy and terrible vulnerability. Within two month, I felt such anxiety and fear of loss that I remember trying to help him get a job in another state -- just to get him away.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2016, 08:55:15 AM »

Because of all your help, I think I am beginning to turn a corner. Radical acceptance means seeing things how they are, but does not mean I have to accept them (I.e. continue a relationship). I miss him and think about him. But increasingly, this means thinking about how I feel and what I want (or even who he really is), rather than what he is doing, why he is doing it and how to affix him to me. For the time being, at least, I feel no desire to call him or talk to him. And when I do, I try to examine the feeling and see what really lies beneath.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)    Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2016, 09:04:59 AM »

  Yes, that does sound like turning a corner.

It really is OK to miss him and feel sad--that isn't actually in conflict with a belief and understanding that it can't work out in a way that is good or healthy for you.

It doesn't matter how many things were wrong, damaging to you, etc... .the loss is real.

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Narkiss
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« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2016, 03:05:48 PM »

I hope I can maintain this, and not give in to magical thinking that I can fix this or him or That I can handle contact with him and not get burnt.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2016, 03:11:42 PM »

Whenever you think you can have a role in Harry Potter come here. We will tell you to put down the Ding Dong as it is not a magical Ding Dong and you're not Hermione 
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Tomacini
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« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2016, 03:32:45 PM »

This is very recognizable. My exBPDgf also had controlling parents. Whenever I wanted to talk about our situation or my needs she completely shut down. We never really talked, except for those moments when she was about to lose me. Then we would talk
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Narkiss
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« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2016, 06:07:21 PM »

Yes, tell me to put him down, to stay away, to stop. Remind me of the heartache. Tell me that nothing ever changed. Talk about his wife. Of all the times, he promised to come to visit, then acted like it was an imposition when I followed up. Yes, and how he encouraged me to leave my husband and then disappeared (and reappeared with another woman!). And also that likely I don't exist for him except when he needs something from me (love, attention, etc.).
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2016, 06:12:12 PM »

Yes, tell me to put him down, to stay away, to stop. Remind me of the heartache. Tell me that nothing ever changed. Talk about his wife. Of all the times, he promised to come to visit, then acted like it was an imposition when I followed up. Yes, and how he encouraged me to leave my husband and then disappeared (and reappeared with another woman!). And also that likely I don't exist for him except when he needs something from me (love, attention, etc.).

Deal!
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Narkiss
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« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2016, 06:29:42 PM »

Thank you, Wounded Bibi. And also remind me of the constant feeling of anxiety and of losing myself.
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Narkiss
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« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2016, 11:26:19 AM »

Ok. Need help! I heard from him this morning. I was pretty distant but I still picked up the phone. Again he talked about coming to visit. And again, when I got off the phone, I felt consumed by longing, guilt and the feeling that I did something wrong. (Should have been warmer, fascinating etc). I'm getting that sick feeling again!
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2016, 11:34:40 AM »

Ok. Need help! I heard from him this morning. I was pretty distant but I still picked up the phone. Again he talked about coming to visit. And again, when I got off the phone, I felt consumed by longing, guilt and the feeling that I did something wrong. (Should have been warmer, fascinating etc). I'm getting that sick feeling again!

Narkiss... .NOTHING will ever change. When you want to know when he will visit there will be a million reasons he can't make it after all.

Remember the heartache, the anxiety, losing yourself. DON'T GO THERE

And... .he has a wife.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2016, 11:39:15 AM »

Ok. Need help! I heard from him this morning. I was pretty distant but I still picked up the phone. Again he talked about coming to visit. And again, when I got off the phone, I felt consumed by longing, guilt and the feeling that I did something wrong. (Should have been warmer, fascinating etc). I'm getting that sick feeling again!

Now for the 'put down the Ding Dong' questions:

- why did you pick up the phone?

- why should you have been warmer? Has he been warm to you in this drama? You were distant! Good for you!

- why do you still fall for the talk about visiting? It's just a carrot on a string...

- what do you feel guilty about actually?

- if he's stringing you along why do you feel you have to be miss Perfect?
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HurtinNW
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« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2016, 12:00:59 PM »

Ok. Need help! I heard from him this morning. I was pretty distant but I still picked up the phone. Again he talked about coming to visit. And again, when I got off the phone, I felt consumed by longing, guilt and the feeling that I did something wrong. (Should have been warmer, fascinating etc). I'm getting that sick feeling again!

You asked for this: STOP. PUT HIM DOWN.

What is your body telling you? What is your stomach saying? You feel sick. Why?

Take yourself through it slowly, if you can. Listen to your body. Ask yourself why your body is being wise here and saying NO. You feel sick for a reason. Your body knows you are hurting yourself. It is telling you to stop.

There is nothing you can do to change who he is. Including the fact he is married and has a wife. Ask yourself why you feel it is important to be "warmer" to a man who cheats and lies and causes you pain. You are playing a role in this too by picking up the phone. You can control your end. I'm saying this with love and support. You can do this!

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2016, 12:17:42 PM »

One other question... .what did he actually say or offer to you? Was it any different than what you've heard before?

Tip: When I was weak and hurting early in my split with my wife, I changed her ringtone to something to help me. (I've got good computer/tech skills) I've got this old Rod Stewart song in my music collection. I made the first ~30 seconds into a ringtone:

https://youtu.be/XJylcQ7CGfI

When she calls me, I get this:

"(quite piano intro) If I listen long enough to you ... .I'll find a way to believe that its all true."

I'm not feeling weak now; it has been over a year, I even have talked to her and had some good conversations... .but I haven't changed the ringtone. It is good to have some warning and mental/emotional prep before I answer!

[PM me if you need this as a ringtone  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ]
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Penelope35
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« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2016, 03:00:07 PM »

Narkiss about a month after our second break up he called me more determined that ever to tell me that he wanted to make it work between us and gave me a date and time that he would come visit. I was numb and scared to feel happy but he managed to convince me. He never came.

After our third break up he did the same thing again. Gave me a date and time and I told him ok I will wait and see what excuse you are going to come up with this time. He even got insulted. But of course he never came.

This past Monday (3 days after I told him that we should stop talking again) he sent a message to tell me that he found an apartment and he is moving out of his family house. He said he is doing it 50% for himself and 50 for me. I didn't even answer. If this man did half of the things he talked about we would be the happiest couple on earth. Even if he did move out, it doesn't change the fact that we cannot be together. It's just impossible and that is the sad truth.

Please try to see things for what they are. I got dissapointed so many times by this man and went from happy to devastated so many times that I can't  keep going on with false hopes any more. Try to think of it this way. Even if he comes, do you think there is any chance that you can have a healthy relationship with this person?
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