Do they remember things you did with them?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So from my understanding people with BPD repress painful memories. So does that mean they cannot remember anything they have done with past lovers? Like if they have a memory of something, and their ex lover happened to be involved with the memory. Would they repress the entire memory, or just the ex lover from the memory?

What are your thoughts on this?

[Schermarhorn]

So from my understanding people with BPD repress painful memories. So does that mean they cannot remember anything they have done with past lovers? Like if they have a memory of something, and their ex lover happened to be involved with the memory. Would they repress the entire memory, or just the ex lover from the memory?

What are your thoughts on this?

[MapleBob]

Everyone represses painful memories. My uBPDexgf definitely has fond memories of us, and painful memories of us. I know that she hasn't forgotten or repressed them.

[anglian365]

I think they would remember exactly what an ex-lover did, particularly if they were hurt by it.  :)on't think they would remember their part in the transaction.

[Learning Fast]

Nonya,

Interesting topic.  I would say that my ex (post break up) in the few times that we did meet tried valiantly to repress the memories. 

During this period any time that some experience or memory that we shared would resurface in our discussions the blank look that registered on her face looked more like a desperate attempt to suppress any recollection of the event.  How sad that she couldn't reflect fondly on our time together---but I guess that is BPD.

LF

[patientandclear]

 My ex both remembers minute details I have forgotten, and has obliterated major memories, particularly the most poignantly good ones.

[once removed]

hi Schermarhorn  

i recommend having a google (or better yet a wikipedia) on compartmentalization. its something we all do - and it can be a healthy or unhealthy tool, but i think it might fit what youre describing.

[HurtinNW]

I think part of the feelings = facts is they will remember whatever fits with their current mood. If you are being painted black they only remember the bad. When idealized, who knows.

During our last recycle my ex was telling me how he found a bunch of old photos on his phone. He showed me one, expressing great surprise. It was a photo of me, sitting relaxed and happy looking, at one of his friend's houses, during our first few months. "You look so relaxed!" he said with great surprise. It was clear he had completely forgotten this event, or, more likely, since he had been painting me black for so long, in his mind I was always anxious or angry or some other emotion he was attributing to me. Being confronted with evidence that this was not the case was clearly a shock to him.

I am sure he has since explained it away.

[WoundedBibi]

Actually from reading stuff on pwBPD boards I understand that BPD somehow fffs up their memory.

BPD doesn't just ffff up their perception of what is happening now (as we all have noticed getting caught up in arguments with our ex SOs) or what you are saying or writing (different processing of words) but also the emotional logic between things for others and if something actually happened.

So they interpret what you say differently to what you want to say (looking for hidden meanings & only picking up on or changing it into the negative) or write, or do. They don't 'get' if you're upset it might be over an argument that happened 2 hours ago because it was 2 hours ago, so it's in the past, and they forget.

They actually forget. Both bad and good. Of course they get into arguments with SOs over this and are as angry as we are, accused of things they don't remember doing. Some have taken to making notes when something happens so they can look back a few hours later to check. As much as we think "What the heck just happened? Am I nuts? Does he/she live in another dimension?" so do they.

So if a NON and a BPD would have an argument and afterwards they would speak about it, their tale, their memory of what happened can be completely different. Down to who actually threw around the dishes.

I remember I thought of taping or filming conversations I had with the guy before my ex on several occasions. Not that he would have believed what I would have played back at him, even if had been at the end of the conversation without any 'editing' time. He still would have believed somehow I or someone would have edited the tape.

That's what I mean when I say "your truth is not her/his truth" in other threads. It literally isn't. Their experience of words, actions, people, the world is very often completely different to ours. That is why having a rational discussion, an adult conversation, the thing a lot of NONs so desperately want to make sense of things simply doesn't work. Whether in or after the relationship. And the same goes for an apology. How can they apologize for things they either don't remember happening or that they remember happening 180 degrees different than you?

[Rannan]

WoundedBibi brings up a great point. You have to remember that BPDs perceive the world differently than us, and dissociation is a common trait among them. My BPDex would often completely forget and be in shock after physically abusing me, often stating that she blacked out and didn't remember any of it after I told her what she did and she wondered why I was as upset as I was.

They will spin truths and are experts at gaslighting, and any memory you hold you can be sure they remember it radically differently. They do this not deliberately but as a survival mechanism to keep them from addressing unresolved emotions. This allowed my ex to continually physically and mentally abuse me for years until she said to me that she "realized it was that bad". It took years of blood, sweat, and tears to even convince her of the severity of what she was doing in the relationship.

However they have you split--whether it be black or white--will dictate how they remember you. As said before, feelings are facts to them and you can either be the one who got away or the one they should have never met.

[WoundedBibi]

However they have you split--whether it be black or white--will dictate how they remember you. As said before, feelings are facts to them and you can either be the one who got away or the one they should have never met.

Yes, I too found I hard to bear after I had been painted black that I would be added to his 'bitter list'. The list of ex gfs he felt bitter over. I discovered he felt bitter about a lot of women before the relationship started. A major  I ignored. Because I thought I could change his perspective. Because I'm a sweet girl. The others must have been harpies that mistreated him as he implied. They just didn't understand him. And because I am kind and sensitive how could I possibly end up on the bitter list? If only I would have listened to my gut... .

And ending up on the bitter list is something I fought hard to avoid. It seemed terrible to me that he would think bad of me. I DID NOT want to be on that list!

I'm over that. I am on the bitter list. I'm probably number one right now. And it's fine.

Not wanting to be on it was an ego thing. A "with me it will be different" thing. A "I can save you" thing.

Because in the end it doesn't matter how you're remembered by them. What matters is your own memories. Your own issues, your own shame, your own way of remembering exes, your own way of moving forward from this, your own whatever. In short, your own mind. It's the only one you have any insight in. It's the only one you're responsible for. It's only one you have any control over.

[HurtinNW]

However they have you split--whether it be black or white--will dictate how they remember you. As said before, feelings are facts to them and you can either be the one who got away or the one they should have never met.

Yes, I too found I hard to bear after I had been painted black that I would be added to his 'bitter list'. The list of ex gfs he felt bitter over. I discovered he felt bitter about a lot of women before the relationship started. A major  I ignored. Because I thought I could change his perspective. Because I'm a sweet girl. The others must have been harpies that mistreated him as he implied. They just didn't understand him. And because I am kind and sensitive how could I possibly end up on the bitter list? If only I would have listened to my gut... .

And ending up on the bitter list is something I fought hard to avoid. It seemed terrible to me that he would think bad of me. I DID NOT want to be on that list!

I'm over that. I am on the bitter list. I'm probably number one right now. And it's fine.

Not wanting to be on it was an ego thing. A "with me it will be different" thing. A "I can save you" thing.

Because in the end it doesn't matter how you're remembered by them. What matters is your own memories. Your own issues, your own shame, your own way of remembering exes, your own way of moving forward from this, your own whatever. In short, your own mind. It's the only one you have any insight in. It's the only one you're responsible for. It's only one you have any control over.

I'm on the list now too. He lasted longer with me than the others, but it hurts to realize the transition to being on the permanent list has happened. For my ex the list is all the women he became disillusioned with, who disappointed him by not being what they seemed to be in the beginning. I should have totally seen that red flag: a man in his fifties who has never had a relationship over a year or two, and most of them superficial dating.

I was genuinely convinced I was different, than I was the love he had been waiting for. I remember the shock of hearing how he had described women before me in the same effusive tones: she is so beautiful, so amazing, etc. It still really stings.

[WoundedBibi]

I was genuinely convinced I was different, than I was the love he had been waiting for. I remember the shock of hearing how he had described women before me in the same effusive tones: she is so beautiful, so amazing, etc. It still really stings.

Do you know why it still really stings? And what is it exactly that stings?

[HurtinNW]

I was genuinely convinced I was different, than I was the love he had been waiting for. I remember the shock of hearing how he had described women before me in the same effusive tones: she is so beautiful, so amazing, etc. It still really stings.

Do you know why it still really stings? And what is it exactly that stings?

I think because I didn't realize that until this recycle and break up. Until then I thought I was different, I was special. This was the longest lasting relationship for my ex, and perhaps he did try harder this time. He was also really triggered a lot, and behaved worse too. No one else ever got close enough to him to see all that anger and rage.

It stings to feel maybe I wasn't that special. That it was all an illusion. That I ignored evidence that he had done this before, idealizing, devaluing and discarding. Until this break up I honestly thought I was different. It hurts to think I was not.

[MapleBob]

It stings to feel maybe I wasn't that special. That it was all an illusion. That I ignored evidence that he had done this before, idealizing, devaluing and discarding. Until this break up I honestly thought I was different. It hurts to think I was not.

Same with my uBPDexgf. It's amazing that I didn't stop and go "hey, wait a minute, this behavior kind of rings a bell if I imagine you doing it with the last three partners you've told me about... .Now it all makes sense!"

[WoundedBibi]

I was genuinely convinced I was different, than I was the love he had been waiting for. I remember the shock of hearing how he had described women before me in the same effusive tones: she is so beautiful, so amazing, etc. It still really stings.

Do you know why it still really stings? And what is it exactly that stings?

I think because I didn't realize that until this recycle and break up. Until then I thought I was different, I was special. This was the longest lasting relationship for my ex, and perhaps he did try harder this time. He was also really triggered a lot, and behaved worse too. No one else ever got close enough to him to see all that anger and rage.

It stings to feel maybe I wasn't that special. That it was all an illusion. That I ignored evidence that he had done this before, idealizing, devaluing and discarding. Until this break up I honestly thought I was different. It hurts to think I was not.

It wasn't an illusion. The relationship was real, not a night out to see David Copperfield.

If this was the longest relationship and he got more triggered by you than anybody else, than you ARE special.

Yes, you ignored evidence and you need to look into why you did that. And in the end you did not make it. So in that respect you were not different than the others there were before but let's be real here, NOBODY can make it work till the end with this guy. Nobody is special or different enough for that.

So you were more special than the others but not super human special. Does that bring it into perspective?

[HurtinNW]

I was genuinely convinced I was different, than I was the love he had been waiting for. I remember the shock of hearing how he had described women before me in the same effusive tones: she is so beautiful, so amazing, etc. It still really stings.

Do you know why it still really stings? And what is it exactly that stings?

I think because I didn't realize that until this recycle and break up. Until then I thought I was different, I was special. This was the longest lasting relationship for my ex, and perhaps he did try harder this time. He was also really triggered a lot, and behaved worse too. No one else ever got close enough to him to see all that anger and rage.

It stings to feel maybe I wasn't that special. That it was all an illusion. That I ignored evidence that he had done this before, idealizing, devaluing and discarding. Until this break up I honestly thought I was different. It hurts to think I was not.

It wasn't an illusion. The relationship was real, not a night out to see David Copperfield.

If this was the longest relationship and he got more triggered by you than anybody else, than you ARE special.

Yes, you ignored evidence and you need to look into why you did that. And in the end you did not make it. So in that respect you were not different than the others there were before but let's be real here, NOBODY can make it work till the end with this guy. Nobody is special or different enough for that.

So you were more special than the others but not super human special. Does that bring it into perspective?

Yes, that does, thank you. Maybe I am special. But I am not a magician, and as you say, no one can make it work to the end with him.

Once, in a rare moment of insight, he said, "You don't know what it is like to feel outside of your approval." My heart broke at that, especially since his response to that feeling was to rage, abuse and destroy the relationship.

Back to the OP, who asked if they will repress an entire memory involving an ex, mine certainly did. He flat out didn't remember entire events. As others have said, once you are painted black for good you go in the bad category. That's why it is so very hurtful, to know all the good parts of you no longer exist for this person. For my ex I am not going to be the one that got away. I am going to be the person he wished he never met. So sad.

[patientandclear]

A couple things.  First, Hurt, I don't think it's as simple as "I am going to be the one he should not have met, not the one who got away."  My ex portrayed his longest relationship as a pit of despair.  From initial descriptions the woman sounded horribly cold and abusive.  ("I'm not!" I thought!)

Over time and through our various off and on periods, I've heard him talk a ton about this woman.  It's become clear that she overshadows all others.  He has such negative feelings about her that he uses a phrase other than her name, which has kind of become a joke among his friends.  However, in many discussions, it is clear he is obsessed with her.  He simply cannot get over the relationship, especially because after they finally split and she decided not ever to go back, she met with him for some sort of closure conversation, and told him things about how it all went wrong that he is still turning over and over in his mind today, 8 years later.  He doesn't necessarily accept what she said, but he can't outright reject it either.  At one point recently, when I was commenting that relationships deepen when we stick it out through the bad feelings, repair and keep going (I had us in mind when I said this), he commented that if he was to do that with anyone, it would have been with this other, long term ex gf.

So it's more complicated. I think you can assume your ex has deeply mixed feelings, even those are tied up with a negative bow, and a lot of doubt, and a lurking feeling that he might have  been wrong.

I also don't think it's as simple as the idea that good memories are recalled when you are "painted white" and bad memories when you are "painted black."  My ex most notably forgot beautiful things we had done together when we were on great terms and very close.  It's as if remembering the good things would have made it impossible to square with his theory that we should not be together.  I suspect the function of the compartmentalization or dissociation is simply to protect the current storyline, whatever it is, from memories that would not line up.

Finally, on specialness.  I too got caught up in the special-ness Olympics, believed I was or could be the most special because I tried the hardest and understood the best.  He DID like that quality about me -- it was useful.  However, I do not believe it made me the most special.  It made me the most self-sacrificing and tolerant.  I decided eventually those were not the qualities I wanted to be loved and valued for (sticking around, putting up with hurtful events).

It was a long journey for me to accept that many of the women who came before me probably could have been just as special, but they were less addicted or had better boundaries or ... .something ... .that prevented them from sticking around like I did.  That does not mean I was more lovable, the message I wanted to take away.  It meant I was more forgiving.  A few clues made me see that my ex actually disrespected me for continuing to engage with him, among them that, when I realized he was seeing someone else and took a few days to process and decide what I wanted to do/say, he commented on my absence by saying "I guess there is a line after all."  Meaning, till then (he did not even realize I was upset about the other woman, thought it was because of something else he had said) he had thought I had "no line."  There was nothing he could do that would cause me to back away or feel badly about our relationship.  On the one hand, I think he saw that as a big asset in his life.  On the other, it rationalized him mistreating me and undervaluing what we had.

[Learning Fast]

Hurting,

Excellent commentary by Wounded and P and C.

We were special until we weren't. 

You certainly were special. I also agree (sadly) with the premise that their behavior worsens as the level of closeness/intimacy heightens.  I feel that is why you and many of the rest of us have had longer and more emotional relationships with our exes---they felt a closer attachment with us then they did others.

I doubt that my ex forgot much of our time together.  Instead, I suspect she chooses not to remember.  Repression on steroids.

She had an exceptional memory (which apparently is quite common for pwBPD).  One time when we were together I had marveled at her ability to vividly recall something from her past and had commented on her capabilities "K, it must be great to be able to remember everything like that!".  I'll never forget the look on her face---from smiling and laughing to stone blank in a nanosecond while saying "No, it really isn't that great because there are many things that I'd like to forget".

After our initial breakup she mentioned that she kept our relationship "locked in a vault" within her mind.  I had no idea what she was referring to until I found out about BPD.


LF

[HurtinNW]

A couple things.  First, Hurt, I don't think it's as simple as "I am going to be the one he should not have met, not the one who got away."  My ex portrayed his longest relationship as a pit of despair.  From initial descriptions the woman sounded horribly cold and abusive.  ("I'm not!" I thought!)

Over time and through our various off and on periods, I've heard him talk a ton about this woman.  It's become clear that she overshadows all others.  He has such negative feelings about her that he uses a phrase other than her name, which has kind of become a joke among his friends.  However, in many discussions, it is clear he is obsessed with her.  He simply cannot get over the relationship, especially because after they finally split and she decided not ever to go back, she met with him for some sort of closure conversation, and told him things about how it all went wrong that he is still turning over and over in his mind today, 8 years later.  He doesn't necessarily accept what she said, but he can't outright reject it either.  At one point recently, when I was commenting that relationships deepen when we stick it out through the bad feelings, repair and keep going (I had us in mind when I said this), he commented that if he was to do that with anyone, it would have been with this other, long term ex gf.

So it's more complicated. I think you can assume your ex has deeply mixed feelings, even those are tied up with a negative bow, and a lot of doubt, and a lurking feeling that he might have  been wrong.

I also don't think it's as simple as the idea that good memories are recalled when you are "painted white" and bad memories when you are "painted black."  My ex most notably forgot beautiful things we had done together when we were on great terms and very close.  It's as if remembering the good things would have made it impossible to square with his theory that we should not be together.  I suspect the function of the compartmentalization or dissociation is simply to protect the current storyline, whatever it is, from memories that would not line up.

Finally, on specialness.  I too got caught up in the special-ness Olympics, believed I was or could be the most special because I tried the hardest and understood the best.  He DID like that quality about me -- it was useful.  However, I do not believe it made me the most special.  It made me the most self-sacrificing and tolerant.  I decided eventually those were not the qualities I wanted to be loved and valued for (sticking around, putting up with hurtful events).

It was a long journey for me to accept that many of the women who came before me probably could have been just as special, but they were less addicted or had better boundaries or ... .something ... .that prevented them from sticking around like I did.  That does not mean I was more lovable, the message I wanted to take away.  It meant I was more forgiving.  A few clues made me see that my ex actually disrespected me for continuing to engage with him, among them that, when I realized he was seeing someone else and took a few days to process and decide what I wanted to do/say, he commented on my absence by saying "I guess there is a line after all."  Meaning, till then (he did not even realize I was upset about the other woman, thought it was because of something else he had said) he had thought I had "no line."  There was nothing he could do that would cause me to back away or feel badly about our relationship.  On the one hand, I think he saw that as a big asset in his life.  On the other, it rationalized him mistreating me and undervaluing what we had.

Everything you says makes perfect sense. I probably will go down as overshadowing all else, and the feelings are so monumental, so core for him that he will feel he must describe me as awful. Otherwise he won't be able to face his own loss. I know this has already happened because he would report back to me how his friends commiserated with him how incredibly difficult and crazy I am.

I also agree about the memories. What I meant is for my exthe memories he recalls have to line up with his current narrative. During the times he paints me black he only seems to recall bad memories. But even during times that felt good he often seemed to recall mostly bad times. I think for him this lines up with his place on the triangle, which is victim. There was always a sense that he was storing grievances, to be pulled out at any time, no matter how good things were going. Most of the positive stuff I did for him he didn't even seem to notice or remember, especially over time.

The Special-ness Olympics is right. I think for my ex he discarded other girlfriends much quicker, for different reasons, and some of them probably had much better boundaries. I am guessing (I hadn't thought of it before) that probably all of them refused to be recycled. I also thought that me sticking with the relationship meant I was more committed, more loving. In the end it probably meant I was more co-dependent and willing to accept abusive behavior. Rather than impress him it just led to more devaluation and discards. It led him to disrespect me, which became increasingly clear.

Oh, and editing to say sorry for thread-jacking!

[WoundedBibi]

Basically all pwBPD are different. Some appear to choose to forget. Some actually forget. What they forget can be the negative stuff, the positive stuff, or both.

So there is no one size fits all BPDs answer.

[bus boy]

Good topic. They remember your mistakes, they remember the words that hurt you, they remember how to use what you shared with them, against you, but I recall bringing up nice things we did and she never remembers any of them. PD' s are so complex it's hard to really know what they do or don't remember. My ex wife denies any abuse ever happened, they lie so bad and are so intent on hurting that if they thought telling you they don't remember something would hurt you or get a reaction out of you than they would tell you they don't remember. I guess it boiles down to, does it really matter what they think or remember. I drove my self to the edge of insanity, wondering, playing that record of everything I did, wondering, how can she not remember. We just have to be strong, establish no contact and thank god every day they are out of our life.

[WoundedBibi]

Busboy there is no way of knowing if this goes for your ex or not but some actually don't remember things. A PD is more than not being able to remain stable in emotions. It's also about perceiving time in a different way, about processing words differently than NONs and of not remembering things or remembering things in a different way than you.

It helps in making sense of everything to realize there sometimes is no sense to be made. It prevents us doubting ourselves to think of it as going to the cinema together watching the same film as you are together in the same room but when you talk together afterwards it's like you've been watching Bambi and your ex has seen Die Hard With a Vengeance VII or the other way round.

[anglian365]

Because in the end it doesn't matter how you're remembered by them. What matters is your own memories. Your own issues, your own shame, your own way of remembering exes, your own way of moving forward from this, your own whatever. In short, your own mind. It's the only one you have any insight in. It's the only one you're responsible for. It's only one you have any control over.

Thank you WoundedBibi, that's so true, and it's very good to be reminded of that.

[bus boy]

Hi WoundedBibi. Your comment was so true, I really felt and related to what you wrote, it's like you new my ex, you described her to a tee. And I do recall going to the movies with her and wondering afterward if we actually saw the same movie.

[WoundedBibi]

Hi WoundedBibi. Your comment was so true, I really felt and related to what you wrote, it's like you new my ex, you described her to a tee.

No offense but I hope I don't know her... I know too many already...

And I do recall going to the movies with her and wondering afterward if we actually saw the same movie.

There you go. If literally going to the same film can result in having a completely different memory of what you watched imagine how different your view points are of something that lasted longer than 2.5 hours...

And if your memories of the relationship are as different as "I watched Bambi" and "I watched Die Hard With a Vengeance 8.5" does it still matter what the memories of the other person are?

Because whatever you do your film will not become the film your ex remembers. Nor will the films ever merge into one.

And whatever you do you'll never understand that you watched the same film but went outside with such different memories of it.

So all you have left are your memories. Remember the good moments fondly. Analyze the bad moments for your part in them and what you can do to change your behaviour. Dive deeper if needed.