About to give up

[stoic83]

Hi all,

About 1.5 years ago I met a woman w/ BPD. She lied to me about many things, including being married, and being infertile. She convinced me it was safe to have sex with her without a condom, and she physically forced me to impregnate her. After that, I tried to get away from her... but she has stalked and harrassed me via every form of technology in cruel and humiliating ways.

I have visited the child about 5 times. I could imagine that if she were with me, that she would be very happy and very loved. I don't think a life with the BPD will be good at all, in fact I know that she will be confused and hurt, frequently and develop emotional and psychological problems.

I am paying her over 1k per month. This is pretty upsetting in itself. It's not court ordered because I have been trying to keep this all out of court, both due to the waste of money, and also due to my political philosophies regarding the family court system.

I am in counseling twice a week, and my counselor and I have discussed what's been preventing me from filing for a no-contact order. For me it's really a combination of the additional costs, and essentially giving up any hope I have of getting custody. But lawyers have told me that it's highly unlikely, and a forensic psychologist told me that i will spend 20-30k and most likely lose, even if I get the recommendation... It's because I chose to leave the state where she was living before the child was born, due to the stalking and harrassment at work and home.

The little girl is about to turn 1. I hesitate to call her my daughter, even though i am her biological father and my name is on the birth certificate and I am paying the mother over 1k/month. I am offered opportunities to visit, and although she is a lovely little baby, I just feel like she's being held hostage and the visits give the BPM mom an opportunity to try and rub up against me while im holding the baby and fantasize that we are a family. In my heart, I absolutely despise what she has done to me in this child. And although I know it isn't the child's fault, it's not mine either... .

In the meantime the BPD woman has lost her job and has been trying to use threats of homelessness to extort me to allow her and the baby come live me. But that's not an option at this point. This woman's behavior has been disintegrating my health and spirit (and newly found income (I was broke and desperate for a place to live after a business partner embezzled money and shut down a business i poured my life in to.)

I could go on and on about the sociopathic behavior exhibited by this woman to deceive me multiple times, and then use this baby to extort me and put me in a terrible no-win, major life loss. But I guess this isn't about that anymore.

I've spent close to 20k in a year (on support, my own therapy, and legal costs). She's profited off of the baby. (I know that isn't that MUCH money in terms of what married rich women get, but for her it's a mint).

The closer I allow myself to get to the baby, the more anxious and in pain that I feel... .and the more she recognizes it and uses subtle threats and victimization to try and extort more from me. Lastly, she's planning on moving in with her 'abusive' ex-husband, the one I 'rescued' her from when I rented out a room at her place. And possibly remarrying... .e.g. duping me in to fatherhood, divorcing husband while pregnant, harassing me out of state, and then remarrying husband (who had mutated sperm) with my innocent baby and a paycheck. He seems to have a character disorder and is obssessed with violence and hate.

Sigh... I've never felt so hopeless and like such a victim. I feel like this is rock-bottom... I'm feeling a little bit bolder, but I don't know what direction to go in. I shudder at the idea of being used by this woman as a paycheck/enabler to wreck this child's mind and spirt over the next 18 years. I honestly have no faith in her being a good parent, but she knows how the system works, and is focused on those things and those things only.

I don't want to spend the next several years in a custody battle. The BPD has now offered me 50/50 custody with no support, but I don't want to be so intertwined with this woman that deceived and forced me in to fatherhood. It just creates too much internal conflict for me, and dealing with this woman for the rest of my life... .not sure how I could ever be happy.

Stoic

[ForeverDad]

How sure are you that a court order won't be to your benefit - and to your child's benefit as well?

I am paying her over 1k per month. This is pretty upsetting in itself. It's not court ordered because I have been trying to keep this all out of court, both due to the waste of money, and also due to my political philosophies regarding the family court system.

Yes, the court system does have it's problems and yes it generally isn't free.  (The court fees aren't what is expensive, it's the lawyers and other professionals such as custody evaluators that need to be paid.)  But we've found that often the court does set a firm framework for parenting until the children are grown.  It's not perfect by any measurements but it's better than leaving the disordered parent in unrestricted control.  (And why I often state that court is usually "less unfair" than an entitled controlling Ex.)  Sometimes it even lowers the child support if we've been paying too much.  (Child support isn't really 'required' until there is a court order but at least paying something reasonable in the interim shows a good faith effort.)

I am in counseling twice a week, and my counselor and I have discussed what's been preventing me from filing for a no-contact order. For me it's really a combination of the additional costs, and essentially giving up any hope I have of getting custody.

You could get a no-contact clause built into a parenting schedule.  For example, it could state that exchanges musty be at a neutral location such as a police station or sheriff's office.  It could state that contact is limited to emails and the emails only about the child or the child's care.

But lawyers have told me that it's highly unlikely, and a forensic psychologist told me that i will spend 20-30k and most likely lose, even if I get the recommendation... It's because I chose to leave the state where she was living before the child was born, due to the stalking and harrassment at work and home.

Okay, so what if you don't get 'custody'?  What a child needs is regular contact with enough visits to know what a normal home should be like.  Only a handful of us were able to block the other parent's contact.  And many never got legal custody.  But we do what we can with the framework we have to work with and most of the time we see the clear benefits in our children.

I am offered opportunities to visit, and although she is a lovely little baby, I just feel like she's being held hostage and the visits give the BPM mom an opportunity to try and rub up against me while im holding the baby and fantasize that we are a family. In my heart, I absolutely despise what she has done to me in this child. And although I know it isn't the child's fault, it's not mine either... .

In the meantime the BPD woman has lost her job and has been trying to use threats of homelessness to extort me to allow her and the baby come live me... .

Yes, she misrepresented herself as infertile but you still had consequences, a child.  Accept that.  Now what will you do?

The point I made above was that you can get an order that limits your contact with her.  You can choose to parent but not have a continuing relationship/contact wit the mother beyond the parenting aspects.  You can even have exchanges in ways to limit your contact too.

remarrying husband (who had mutated sperm) with my innocent baby and a paycheck. He seems to have a character disorder and is obsessed with violence and hate.

Sigh... I've never felt so hopeless and like such a victim. I feel like this is rock-bottom... I'm feeling a little bit bolder, but I don't know what direction to go in.

You have only her/their unsupported word about the quality of his sperm.  The real issue is, will you do anything more than make monthly payments for your daughter?  After all, inaction or indecision is also a choice.  Will you choose to do something about this quandary?

Okay, so you may not get legal custody.  Okay, so you may not get majority time.  Okay, so you live in another state.  What about it?  Myriads of fathers have faced these hurdles but it didn't stop all of them.  Seek and get as much legal custody, decision making, and parenting time as you can get.  Years from now you will be glad you didn't delay too long to get a firm handle on this part of your life.

YOU choose whether you will be a victim or a survivor, whether you will retreat or march with goals in sight into parenthood.

I don't want to spend the next several years in a custody battle. The BPD has now offered me 50/50 custody with no support... . and dealing with this woman for the rest of my life... .not sure how I could ever be happy.

Did she offer this in writing, either mail or email?  (Documentation means a lot in the legal scenario.  It may not be 100% binding but it does give you some leverage.)  Yes, she could withdraw her 'offer' but it shows that she has no basis to block your parenting.  If you can get a court order in place granting you equal time and less child support, that would be a really great accomplishment.

You are already in some level of contact.  Why not go ahead and get a framework in place so you're relatively protected in the years to come?  That way (1) you would regain some control over your life and (2) you would feel more like an involved father.

I'm wondering too, how attached is she to her child?  If she's offering equal time, maybe she wants to walk away more and get more involved in her adult relationships than in parenting.

Really, your catastrophizing negativity is what's preventing you from being happy.  Remember, Forrest Gump?  "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get."  You may bite into a favorite, or not.  Would you fail to eat them if some weren't to your liking?  So... .do you want to fixate on a problematic Ex or instead focus on the sole positive in this mess, you have a beautiful daughter?

YOU do have a choice... .view your situation as climbing uphill however slowly and eventually conquering your mountainlike hurdles... .or continue stewing about all the problems in your life?

EDIT:  Some of us here are probably thinking, "O, if only my ex was as less obstructive of my parenting as his."  Mine was so oppositional she was making false child abuse allegations, making harassment allegations, blocking any father-child contact if no court orders, disparaging father to the children, etc.  I'm not in your shoes but it seems to me that I could be envious of you with less conflict and opposition than I've experienced.  Maybe you can discuss with your therapist your "poor me" perspective?

[HopefulDad]

Sorry, man.  Hang in there.

I know it's hard to do, but try hard to step outside yourself and re-read that last paragraph with an objective mind.  You are being offered 50/50 custody and no support.  That may very well be a huge blessing... .

I know you don't want to be intertwined with this lady, but guess what?  You have a child with her so you will have to deal with her to some degree whether you like it or not.  The sooner you get okay with that, the better.  Most people have to deal with that *and* get taken to the cleaners support-wise or live a nightmare when it comes to custody.

I know you have mixed feelings about your child<*>, but let that father/child bond have a chance to take hold.  You will likely look at that as one of the best decisions of your life, even if you find that hard to believe now.



<*> With that paragraph about her ex-husband, I suggest getting a paternity test.  Just in case.

[stoic83]

Sorry, man.  Hang in there.

I know it's hard to do, but try hard to step outside yourself and re-read that last paragraph with an objective mind.  You are being offered 50/50 custody and no support.  That may very well be a huge blessing... .

I know you don't want to be intertwined with this lady, but guess what?  You have a child with her so you will have to deal with her to some degree whether you like it or not.  The sooner you get okay with that, the better.  Most people have to deal with that *and* get taken to the cleaners support-wise or live a nightmare when it comes to custody.

I know you have mixed feelings about your child<*>, but let that father/child bond have a chance to take hold.  You will likely look at that as one of the best decisions of your life, even if you find that hard to believe now.



<*> With that paragraph about her ex-husband, I suggest getting a paternity test.  Just in case.

Hmm I did take a paternity test. I agree with what you are saying. But that's not completely true. If I just choose to pay support, and cut all contact with her... .I'm sure that contact will be extremely limited... .and she will move on and get all 'BPD' about something/someone else. I guess my hope is that she does something wrong and gets the kid taken away from her. I feel like by enabling... and being a crutch that isn't going to happen and that this woman will have the upper hand in the little girl's life, and mine if I choose to be involved. I don't want to throw away my entire life just to be a part time dad. (e.g. having to be close to her location-wise, it's in a city where I don't even know anybody... .my family lives elsewhere and I didn't move to this part of the country to settle down as a part-time single father... .I'm sorry for sounding selfish... but I want to have an intact family. Not this. I'm sure that my being a part of her life will improve it... .but at what cost to my own life? I can't be a fool to this artificial/man-made situation created by the family court system.

[stoic83]

How sure are you that a court order won't be to your benefit - and to your child's benefit as well?

I am paying her over 1k per month. This is pretty upsetting in itself. It's not court ordered because I have been trying to keep this all out of court, both due to the waste of money, and also due to my political philosophies regarding the family court system.

Yes, the court system does have it's problems and yes it generally isn't free.  (The court fees aren't what is expensive, it's the lawyers and other professionals such as custody evaluators that need to be paid.)  But we've found that often the court does set a firm framework for parenting until the children are grown.  It's not perfect by any measurements but it's better than leaving the disordered parent in unrestricted control.  (And why I often state that court is usually "less unfair" than an entitled controlling Ex.)  Sometimes it even lowers the child support if we've been paying too much.  (Child support isn't really 'required' until there is a court order but at least paying something reasonable in the interim shows a good faith effort.)

I am in counseling twice a week, and my counselor and I have discussed what's been preventing me from filing for a no-contact order. For me it's really a combination of the additional costs, and essentially giving up any hope I have of getting custody.

You could get a no-contact clause built into a parenting schedule.  For example, it could state that exchanges musty be at a neutral location such as a police station or sheriff's office.  It could state that contact is limited to emails and the emails only about the child or the child's care.

But lawyers have told me that it's highly unlikely, and a forensic psychologist told me that i will spend 20-30k and most likely lose, even if I get the recommendation... It's because I chose to leave the state where she was living before the child was born, due to the stalking and harrassment at work and home.

Okay, so what if you don't get 'custody'?  What a child needs is regular contact with enough visits to know what a normal home should be like.  Only a handful of us were able to block the other parent's contact.  And many never got legal custody.  But we do what we can with the framework we have to work with and most of the time we see the clear benefits in our children.

I am offered opportunities to visit, and although she is a lovely little baby, I just feel like she's being held hostage and the visits give the BPM mom an opportunity to try and rub up against me while im holding the baby and fantasize that we are a family. In my heart, I absolutely despise what she has done to me in this child. And although I know it isn't the child's fault, it's not mine either... .

In the meantime the BPD woman has lost her job and has been trying to use threats of homelessness to extort me to allow her and the baby come live me... .

Yes, she misrepresented herself as infertile but you still had consequences, a child.  Accept that.  Now what will you do?

The point I made above was that you can get an order that limits your contact with her.  You can choose to parent but not have a continuing relationship/contact wit the mother beyond the parenting aspects.  You can even have exchanges in ways to limit your contact too.

remarrying husband (who had mutated sperm) with my innocent baby and a paycheck. He seems to have a character disorder and is obsessed with violence and hate.

Sigh... I've never felt so hopeless and like such a victim. I feel like this is rock-bottom... I'm feeling a little bit bolder, but I don't know what direction to go in.

You have only her/their unsupported word about the quality of his sperm.  The real issue is, will you do anything more than make monthly payments for your daughter?  After all, inaction or indecision is also a choice.  Will you choose to do something about this quandary?

Okay, so you may not get legal custody.  Okay, so you may not get majority time.  Okay, so you live in another state.  What about it?  Myriads of fathers have faced these hurdles but it didn't stop all of them.  Seek and get as much legal custody, decision making, and parenting time as you can get.  Years from now you will be glad you didn't delay too long to get a firm handle on this part of your life.

YOU choose whether you will be a victim or a survivor, whether you will retreat or march with goals in sight into parenthood.

I don't want to spend the next several years in a custody battle. The BPD has now offered me 50/50 custody with no support... . and dealing with this woman for the rest of my life... .not sure how I could ever be happy.

Did she offer this in writing, either mail or email?  (Documentation means a lot in the legal scenario.  It may not be 100% binding but it does give you some leverage.)  Yes, she could withdraw her 'offer' but it shows that she has no basis to block your parenting.  If you can get a court order in place granting you equal time and less child support, that would be a really great accomplishment.

You are already in some level of contact.  Why not go ahead and get a framework in place so you're relatively protected in the years to come?  That way (1) you would regain some control over your life and (2) you would feel more like an involved father.

I'm wondering too, how attached is she to her child?  If she's offering equal time, maybe she wants to walk away more and get more involved in her adult relationships than in parenting.

Really, your catastrophizing negativity is what's preventing you from being happy.  Remember, Forrest Gump?  "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get."  You may bite into a favorite, or not.  Would you fail to eat them if some weren't to your liking?  So... .do you want to fixate on a problematic Ex or instead focus on the sole positive in this mess, you have a beautiful daughter?

YOU do have a choice... .view your situation as climbing uphill however slowly and eventually conquering your mountainlike hurdles... .or continue stewing about all the problems in your life?

EDIT:  Some of us here are probably thinking, "O, if only my ex was as less obstructive of my parenting as his."  Mine was so oppositional she was making false child abuse allegations, making harassment allegations, blocking any father-child contact if no court orders, disparaging father to the children, etc.  I'm not in your shoes but it seems to me that I could be envious of you with less conflict and opposition than I've experienced.  Maybe you can discuss with your therapist your "poor me" perspective?

I'm not gonna lie, ForeverDad... .that last part brought a tear to my eye. I really feel like I just need some time without being harassed so that I can focus on myself and the child... .not the BPD mom. I have been setting some boundaries in terms of contact... .I just don't really want this ugly of a life. And I don't want to live a life of cognitive dissonance. I feel what this woman did to me was wrong. I feel like what she has done should be a crime. I don't feel men or women should ever be forced to do anything, especially if another has something to gain aside from a child... which really does not demand anything other than love and attention.

I don't want the people I will be able to protect, my future wife and kids (hopefully)... .to be dragged in to the gutter with me... .and the rest of my family, including my mom and aunt and uncle (both child psychs) are all very hurt by this. It seems like an awful lot of damage to sustain just to try and buffer the mother's ridiculous behavior... .I mean she's been breast feeding religiously, and sleeping in the same bed as the baby every single night... .trying to create an overdependency on her... .she's already screwing with her head and she isn't even 1.

I admit that I should not have put myself in to a situation where I was vulnerable. But at the same time, I'm really having a hard time... .as a man and human being... .being forced in to parenthood in this manner. I think it's disgusting... .and if it were a woman I'd feel the same way for her... .because unlike the BPD mom, I actually have empathy for the people I sleep with.

[ForeverDad]

I don't want to throw away my entire life just to be a part time dad... .

I'm sure that my being a part of her life will improve it... .but at what cost to my own life?

I hope your daughter never hears that, even if not singled out of your surrounding words.

You're not the only remote parent.  Untold thousands of parents live hundreds, even thousands of miles apart.  They and the courts have found ways to ensure parenting happens.  If you don't end up being the primary parent, then you would likely get the longer school holidays such as a large part of winter break, spring break, maybe even Thanksgivings.  As as for summers, some remote parents get half the school's summer break or maybe the entire summer break less a couple weeks for the primary parent to choose a vacation time.  That's 6 to 10 weeks of the summer!

Our point is that it's not all sour grapes, unless you choose it to be.

[stoic83]

I don't want to throw away my entire life just to be a part time dad... .

I'm sure that my being a part of her life will improve it... .but at what cost to my own life?

I hope your daughter never hears that, even if not singled out of your surrounding words.

You're not the only remote parent.  Untold thousands of parents live hundreds, even thousands of miles apart.  They and the courts have found ways to ensure parenting happens.  If you don't end up being the primary parent, then you would likely get the longer school holidays such as a large part of winter break, spring break, maybe even Thanksgivings.  As as for summers, some remote parents get half the school's summer break or maybe the entire summer break less a couple weeks for the primary parent to choose a vacation time.  That's 6 to 10 weeks of the summer!

Our point is that it's not all sour grapes, unless you choose it to be.

It's too late for reputations. There's already 10+ online posts saying that I abandoned her. I mean you've got a point. If i had a daughter who was in this situation, and a man told her he was sterile... .and intentionally impregnated her, and then took the baby and sued her for child support when she did not want to have a baby with this man... I would advise her to try and get the child adopted and out of such a horrible situation. My daughter would deserve a better fate than being in and out of court with a psycho who uses the baby as a weapon to terrorize and hurt her and the innocent child deserves a proper home with an intact family. I think maybe the fact that I was deceived and coerced in to parenthood by someone I hardly knew makes my situation different than if I had a child with a significant other, and then separated.

[livednlearned]

I think the point FD is making is that you are either a victim or survivor, it's your choice.

It's no different for anyone on this board, regardless of the details of our situations.

[stoic83]

I think the point FD is making is that you are either a victim or survivor, it's your choice.

It's no different for anyone on this board, regardless of the details of our situations.

I guess I'm having a hard time giving up hope that either she will move on with her life and let me off the hook, or allow me to have sole custody.  It's unfortunate that I have to make such important decisions under duress. I will try to gain more clarity as to what I want to do. It's hard to submit to something that I was so very against from the start.

[ForeverDad]

I guess I'm having a hard time giving up hope that either she will move on with her life and let me off the hook, or allow me to have sole custody.

It's not about either/or.  It's not about all/nothing.  If you are waiting to take over or abdicate, it will be a long lonely wait.  Life is seldom one extreme or the other, life is generally somewhere in between.  Some good, some not so good.  You make the best you can out of what you can get.

They say early men were hunter/gatherers.  Success probably won't come knocking on your door, you'll have to go out and bring it home.  Be a man of action, positive action.