What is the age of your ex ?

[Herodias]

I am just curious of the age of our exes here... .does it make any difference? Do they mature over time? Mine will be 35 in June. He seemed to get a bit better about his drinking as he got older I met him at 25... .but in my case the behavior got worse with violence and cheating. I know someone whose Mother has it and she is in her 70's. She always feels left out and has an on and off relationship with her boyfriend and seems to think everyone who is really taking advantage of her is her friend. Her family needs to watch out for her. I think the person in the r/s with them know best, so anyone with older BPD's I am wondering if life is still full of drama... .A counselor told my exes parents when he was in high school that he would grow out of it... .Hmmmm... .

[insideoutside]

My friend is 48

[Makersmarksman]

41

[troisette]

Mine's in his sixties Blue.

I've read much about older people with BPD. Many contradictory comments:

That it gets better with age.

That it doesn't improve with age but coping/concealing mechanisms are developed.

That it gets worse with age.

That the type of BPD can change with age, ie classic playing out can become quiet.

I am none the wiser.

I guess that, like so much about BPD, it varies according to the individual.

[love4meNOTu]

46 Blue...

[john83]

My ex is 45... .unmarried, no kids with a string of abusive partners (by her reckoning)... .I was soo different to all the others however  


and now I'm just like them... .

[joeramabeme]

54

[Herodias]

This is very interesting... .I think that goes to show you that they don't necessarily "grow out of it"... .

[confusedbloke]

40.  My opinion is that they will get worse... .buiding up more bitterness and more of a resistance to let go and be loved

[Herodias]

40.  My opinion is that they will get worse... .buiding up more bitterness and more of a resistance to let go and be loved

I suppose they will have more experience on how to manipulate people too... .

[confusedbloke]

Yeah - a self preservation thing I guess.  Its a shame really... .Coz everyones capable of love... .Just a shame they never got it at the right stage... .

[drummerboy5]

My exBPD/npd is 32 never lived on her own

[Itstopsnow]

My ex just turned 35. I think it doesn't get "better" maybe "less" acting out as they age. Because they can't keep up the secret lifestyle as actively as they could when they were younger and more  spry. I think the BPD thing gets less as they age for those reasons alone. Their mental and emotional state doesn't change. And I'm talking about people in there 70's 80's and above that have BPD. That's when I think behaviors may get less severe. But only for the reasons I stated. They physically can't keep up with it. The aches and pains of older age catches up.

[Dhand77]

36. When I met her Aunt, she finally thought her niece matured. Once the aunt caught wind of the break up. The first thing she said was "She still an immature little girl."

[Narkiss]

51. Didn't know him when he was younger but he said that he was utterly selfish 20 years ago and still struggles every day against it. I think he has more self control now but years more triggers built up. My mother has a BPD cousin who is nearly 90. She is a nightmare. She raged at her husband on his deathbed

[neverloveagain]

My ex is 28 now and is in full river flow.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Mine is 40.  I'm 31.  He seems to be getting more extreme with every relationship.

[Ahoy]

26, I thought she was so mature for her age... .

[Herodias]

Ahoy, I thought mine was mature at 25- turns out he had lots of therapy at that point and he was mirroring me- hmmm... .

[LilMe]

Mine is 60 and is just as bad as when he was younger; maybe worse  :'(

[sadmike1]

37... .going on 15 

[sweet tooth]

Late 20s chronologically. 5 emotionally.

[strongerthanU]

Hey blue,

Mine is 55(56in three months)but seriously acts like he's 75. Some things did mellow over the years, I have been with him since he was 26 however, other things have intensified.

[Narkiss]

Stronger: what has intensified and what has mellowed?

[once removed]

im not an expert on the subject, but i do have some personal experience, though it doesnt so much pertain to BPD.

my father has difficulty regulating his emotions, and can display a temper. he has always recoiled at suggestions of really any kind of mental health treatment. as he has aged, i think the tendency is fundamentally still there, and comes out on occasion, but for years (over a decade) the frequency has drastically lessened, to the point that such behavior is very, very rare.

its been a while since ive read about BPD traits lessening or remitting with age, but ive always had the impression that with age, its largely the issues with emotional regulation (or frequency or intensity of dysregulation) that may lessen over time. age mellows a person. hormones change. seems reasonable to me that that could lessen, for example, the inappropriate displays of anger, and the frequency of them. i could see impulsive behaviors lessening. suicidal behaviors might lessen. mood swings might be less extreme or frequent.

it all, of course, depends on the person. behaviors can certainly become more ingrained, and therefore worsen, in a given person. someone lower on the spectrum might at some point no longer meet the criteria for a diagnosis, but still fundamentally have many of the same issues.

my ex recently turned thirty by the way. probably too young for me to gauge that sort of thing.

[Stolen]

Ex is now 50. Knew her since she was 17.  Didn't know the terms then, but there was always uncontrolled anger (dysphoric rage... .), splitting, problems with intimacy (engulfment?), lack of empathy, no building of goodwill, etc. Seems like quite the laundry list now, but I attributed virtually all of it to the evil MIL, who I was determined to save her from.  And we all know how that turns out. 

Anyhow, peaks and valleys as we moved through life, having children clearly triggered something down deep, and then the oldest approaching adolescence while ex ran into peri-menopause provided for the perfect storm.  I'd say 42 was the onset of the worst, and extreme and  rapid enough that I was originally thinking brain tumor.  Eight years later and so much damage done that even if she were to organically recover, I don't think she could ever face what she has wrought.  So it remains horrible, with two daughters forever scarred by the experience.

[Phenomenal Woman]

40.  My opinion is that they will get worse... .buiding up more bitterness and more of a resistance to let go and be loved

I suppose they will have more experience on how to manipulate people too... .

I can definitely agree with this. My ex is 47 and loved to profess he is wiser and knows the real deal as he would put it

[JQ]

Hey Blue,

I'm glad you asked this question and would agree that they "ON'T GROW OUT OF IT"!   My BPD step mother is 71 and until last year was abusing a Fentanyl pain patch for over ten years, Oxy. Other pain pills, alcohol just to mention a few. Drug & alcohol abuse is a key identifier for BPD.  I spent months with her weaning her off of the Fentanyl patch after the doc refused to reissue the script after the state was cracking down. Then she turned to pills she could get by other means.

My BPD step sister is about to turn 49, abuses prescription meds & alcohol.  My first exBPDgf is 49, abuses alcohol and still has her own flock of flying monkey's. Her mother died still having trips to the mental ward at a local hospital well into her 70's. My more recent & 2nd exBPDgf is 51 and abuses alcohol, and continues to exhibit extreme  BPD behavior after 25 plus years of advanced mental health professionals trying to "manage" her Cluster B mental Illness.

I'm sure there are others that have been in my life but chose to leave the situation before the flying monkey's took flight.

At least 5 important women in my life all having BPD and none are any closer to managing their Cluster B mental illness.  I've seen those on the staying board who have been with their BPD spouse for more then 30 yrs for different reasons. I can't NOT imagine dealing with constant flying monkey's and riding the crazy train roller coaster day in and day out for 30 yrs ... .but they are of a different generation and have a different mind set. I recently met a woman in her early 70's who just divorced her husband after 45 years because of his crazy flying monkey behavior. She told me she wanted her last few years free of the chaos, pain and hurt that she had experienced for so many years.

Interesting topic ... .we learn everyday don't we?   

J

[strongerthanU]

Narkiss,

The behaviors that mellowed over time I guess it's more morphed rather than mellowed. In our early marriage anger and over the top rage was normal. Verbal abuse always accompanied his anger implying my stupidity and just how dumb he thought I was etc... .I would get horrible looks after his tirades and he would hiss and make animal like sounds my direction. Silence would then ensue for a couple of days.

It was always followed by what I call superman sex (haha) great lengths would be gone to to impress and woo me in the bedroom. Honestly I was like a frightened little animal after that treatment and sexual prowess really didn't impress me.

I separated from him after ten years and four babies and went thru co dependency treatment. We reconciled and he relapsed to angry behaviors and other things after about 8 months post separation.

When he realized I just wasn't gonna hangout and put up with the gross anger and verbal crap. His isolating behaviors really amped up and progressed quite a lot up to present.

What this looked like is: was always introverted but now won't do holidays with family, hides out in his man cave, won't do shared meals even with me, quit traveling with me about fifteen years ago but talks incessantly about his bucket list of travels and has a lot of anger towards me for not making his travel dreams come true.

I and my h both worked in the fitness industry, we are an attractive, fit couple. For his age my h looks amazing but acts old and decrepit. It is soo sad to me, I can see the weariness all over his face.

He has sunk into angry silences that go on for weeks rather than just a couple of days to the point of moving out of our bedroom for a week or two at a time.

H has always been financially irresponsible and has sabotaged finances but now fantasizes about retiring at 57 with having blown thru retirement funds, tells everyone we are quitting jobs moving to Hawaii, I see a very delusional person.

H was one of the hardest working most diligent people I have ever known in respect to work. Soo hope that gives you some perspective on my experience... .I reached my break point a year ago right now and we are just beginning separation proceedings he thinks I'm nuts of course!

[londons]

hi all, my separated ex is 49.  i am 57.  he takes unbelievable care of himself physically, but is at a standstill emotionally.  he just sent me an e mail yesterday stating that he gave up on all therapists as they are all "full of crap".  last week's email from him said all the therapists he has seen have "bailed" on him.  i hate to say it, but as i went to a few visits with him, they did kind of bail on him !     most said,  "move on from me, im not qualified... ."      at one visit,  my ex told the therapist he wanted to talk about his being sexually abused as a young boy (which took A LOT of courage for him to do!  he keeps it so internalized! )    and the therapist replied, "let's not open that can of worms"     what the hail?    i was like, YES! please open that can of worms!  here is a can opener!      i know you have to keep looking for the right therapist, but my ex probably tried 15 in just the 9 years i was with him.  sorry i got off track on your question  blue, i guess the answer to your question is age is not an indicator!  we have seen ages from 17 to 75.       as my ex got more and more comfortable with me from the age of 40 to 49, he started making progressively worse decisions and never fully trusted me... .the accusations made me cry because he was soo wrong.  i had eyes for only him, and i will always love him... .   hugz, londons

[sflearnignbpd]

40.  I think it gets worse with age.  Her friends claimed they never saw this type of behavior from her.  Her son claimed to have seen it, but never as bad.

[virtus]

My ex is 45... .unmarried, no kids with a string of abusive partners (by her reckoning)... .I was soo different to all the others however  


and now I'm just like them... .

52 exgf, same as above... .

[khibomsis]

Blue my ex was 15 years younger than me. She ST'ed me so can't say what she's like now. Should mention though that my uNBPD mom is 78 and still going strong. Her uNBPD dad lived to be 97 and when he grew too old to physically terrorize his kids and grandkids it just meant he would devote his time to splitting and other forms of psychological abuse. Both intellectually sharp highfunctioning though. What a waste of so much potential.    , khib

[JQ]

Hey Blue,

You asked the question, "o they ever grow out of it".  After I gave this much thought and review I believe your question to be wishful thinking on a NON aka care giver level. We want them to grow out of it, we need them to grow out of it. I'm no different then you or anyone else in these forums. It is a horribly devastating mental illness that destroys not only the person afflicted with it, but their children, parents, s/o.  From one codependent/care giver/perfectionist to another it is simply beyond our control to fix, repair or make perfect.

In the case of some documented medical studies (Harvard among others) have proven that the brain is actually "defective" in it's development. The cause seems to be primarily genetic passed down from parent to child and in some cases this is acerbated by environmental events such as a major PTSD event early in their life but not always.

i wish they would grow out of it ... .but you, me, modern medicine can NOT at this point in time change genome of a person to correct a physical or mental defect.

Harvard Medical School:

Scientists have begun to see how these characteristics are reflected in the brains of people with borderline personality disorder. Some people with this disorder have an exaggerated startle response to unpleasant stimuli. Brain regions involved in managing fear and controlling aggressive responses function differently in people with borderline personality disorder when compared to people without the disorder. Researchers have also discovered distinctive patterns in hormone levels and the immune system in people with the disorder.

It is quite common for people with borderline personality disorder to also have a mood disorder, eating disorder or substance abuse problem. The person may turn to alcohol or drugs to escape from painful, uncontrollable emotions.



Harvard - UofMass study in part says ... .

Heritability and Familiarity

The major BPO twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in BPO in a sample of 92 identical and 129 fraternal twins. This is greater than the heritability of major depressive disorder or anxiety disorders and is similar to that for bipolar disorders. Genetic risk factors for BPO are identified but await replication. In 9 family history studies, 12.6% of first-degree relatives of BPO probands had the disorder, a percentage four times higher than probands with other psychiatric conditions. Affective instability, impulsivity, and disturbed interpersonal relationships are more common in first-degree relatives of individuals with BPO compared to individuals with schizophrenia or other personality disorders.


Biological Factors and Pathophvsiologv

Recent data link BPO to both structural and physiological brain abnormalities. Volumetric studies using MRI consistently show decreased volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala of persons with BPO. Functional MRI studies using standardized tests have demonstrated differences in brain areas and functioning between people with BPO and controls


This research suggests that both the affective instability and the interpersonal hypersensitivity seen in BPD have their roots in the sensitivity of the brain's amygdala to negative emotions. In the face of this increased amygdalar activation, persons with BPD demonstrate impaired self-regulatory function in the prefrontal cortex. Clinically, this corresponds to the subjective and observable dysregulation of emotions and behaviors.


Differences in neurotransmitter systems also seem to distinguish individuals with BPD from controls.  Work in this area has focused on the serotonergic [64] and dopaminergic systems. Significant findings have been published regarding both neurotransmitters. For example, research on the dominaregic system has uncovered specific gene variants in people with BPD. 

Most recently, transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) has been used as a tool to study the pathophysiological underpinnings of BPD. In addition to the parasympathetic nervous system differences (discussed below; see, TMS research suggests that BPD is associated with cortical inhibition deficits.

Taken all together, a large emergent body of research-based evidence in multiple modalities strongly suggests that a biological basis underlies BPD. This assertion is underscored by consistent findings that there are similar differences among individuals with BPD versus controls with respect to neuroanatomy, functioning and pathology.

All this means is that their brain is physically broken, genetically broken at the gene level. Until they can develop a means to correct this the BEST anyone can ever hope for us a level of "MANAGEMENT" of their behavior ... .if there is a management level at all.

So this "clinical" answer in addition to those who have experienced would indicate ... .NO they do not ever grow out of it.

I feel for my exBPDgf, both of them. I know both mothers were mentally ill and it was hid from public eye for their entire life. I now know that my last exBPDgf has 2 children and I can only hope that it stops with this generation ... .but that is wishful thinking and we have done enough of that. It's a cold smack in the face of reality, but in a way I feel fortunate that our r/s has gone it's separate ways.  I can't imagine trying to "manage" my BPDgf/w then at the same time "manage" a step child with this mental illness.  Things happen for a reason Blue ... .

J

J

[spooktor]

Mine ex girlfriend is 41... .I am turning 50!... .it's interesting to see most of the ages listed are similar. I thought that the behaviour would diminish with age, due to the simple reason, that as you get older ( and are with a similar age partner ), the factors determining an ' out of the blue finishing of the relation would lessen... .I mean, an attractive girl in her 20, 30, 40's still could have a large amount of prey to catch, but if you are a couple in their fifties, surely your fear of abandonment lessens due to the effort required and the non BPD's market place becomes so much smaller too, so why would he abandon the BPD sufferer?

I hope that makes sense?... .and people understand what I'm trying to describe? :-)

[WoundedBibi]

Late thirties.


I think with age the intensity of their emotions lessens -which should make them easier to live with- but this is 'compensated' by the by then enormous string of negative experiences (failed relationships, lost jobs) that make them more bitter about life and people, which makes them more difficult to live with. So the end result is either 0 in growing out of it, or minus 0.

(My uBPD cousin who killed himself last year was 54 at the time and looking at his life I think his behaviour got worse as he grew older as his life spiraled further and further out of control and he could not see a way out anymore or a way to get supply again as he was bankrupt, losing his looks, losing friends and family members (I went NC with him years ago, his eldest children didn't want to see him and he was denied to see his youngest), unemployed, had gotten in trouble with the law in the last years due to his alcohol abuse (hit and run while DUI) so not likely to get a new job, heavily in debt, and probably his health had started to fail. The tipping point for him was one more "pay up or else" letter regarding one of his debts. And he chose my birthday to do it. Ultimate attempt to try and hurt me for feeling I had abandoned him.)

[FannyB]

Late 40s.  Mother was probably BPD (if not bi-polar) and now youngest child has experienced difficulties and BPD has been mentioned as a possibility by her therapist.

BPD - the gift that goes on giving!


Fanny

[thrownforaloop]

Mine is 27. Met her when we were both 22. She told me about how she had cheated on all her previous boyfriends---don't know why I thought she'd treat me differently. Yikes.

[once removed]

some more info for this discussion:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819124/

The main finding of interest was that the impulsive and suicidal behavior criteria were significantly affected by the interaction of PD group and age. For the BPD group, impulsive and suicidal behaviors decreased with age (>age 40 and >age 30, respectively) when compared to OPD and NoPD groups. These findings correspond to the discussion in research and clinical literatures regarding the behavioral “burn out” of patients with BPD (Stone, 1993). Specifically, these findings provide empirical support for the hypothesis that these patients engage in fewer impulsive and suicidal behaviors as they age.

Secondly, emotional distress was highest in the BPD group followed by those with another personality disorder. Those with no PD had the lowest scores of emotional distress. Age did not affect level of emotional distress. This finding suggests that even though older adults with BPD may engage in fewer impulsive behaviors, these individuals report experiencing similar levels of depression and anxiety when compared to their younger counterparts. Additionally, we can interpret these findings as giving us insight into the longitudinal course of the disorder. In younger years, those with BPD are likely to engage in self-harm and other dyscontrolled behaviors, such as substance use, binge drinking, and risky sex. As these individuals age, they are less likely to engage in these behaviors but are just as likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. It does not appear that behavioral control alleviates depressive and anxious symptoms. This is consistent with Linehan's description of “quiet desperation” that individuals with BPD experience after they have effectively learned to manage their impulsive behaviors (Linehan, 1993).

Given the cross-sectional nature of this study, conclusions regarding the course of BPD and symptoms of distress are tentative since measurement did not occur longitudinally within individuals. Thus, these findings may not reflect an actual decrease in symptom patterns over the early- to middle-adult lifespan. It is possible that the older group as a whole may have been less impulsive and suicidal than the other age groups. Nonetheless, these findings are consistent with clinical impressions regarding the course of BPD symptoms.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/i-hate-you-dont-leave-me/201308/the-borderline-grows-older-0

In one study (Journal of Psychiatric Research, 7/19/2013), both groups of symptomatic patients exhibited high levels of functional impairment and accompanying other diagnoses, such as depression or substance abuse. Younger adults (age 25 or younger) tended to be more impulsive, self-injuring, substance abusing, and more emotionally labile. Older adults (45 and older) reported greater social dysfunction, more lifetime hospitalizations, and feelings of chronic emptiness.

more discussion and studies here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=37775.10


ps. "non" is shorthand for "non BPD" or "non personality disordered" - no more no less.

[Hadlee]

In younger years, those with BPD are likely to engage in self-harm and other dyscontrolled behaviors, such as substance use, binge drinking, and risky sex. As these individuals age, they are less likely to engage in these behaviors but are just as likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. It does not appear that behavioral control alleviates depressive and anxious symptoms.

This rings true in the case of my ex (late 30's).  He was heavily into risky sexual behavior, drugs and was a self confessed alcoholic in his 20's then mellowed out in this regard once he hit 30.  :)epression, anxiety and paranoia increased in his 30's as well.

[troisette]

Thank you for posting the article once removed.

As these individuals age, they are less likely to engage in these behaviors but are just as likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. It does not appear that behavioral control alleviates depressive and anxious symptoms. This is consistent with Linehan's description of “quiet desperation” that individuals with BPD experience after they have effectively learned to manage their impulsive behaviors (Linehan, 1993).

That describes my ex, in his sixties. He expends a lot of energy maintaining his mask. Although he still displays some impulsivity by a persistent need to buy things via the internet. As though possessions will help his emptiness.

Sad for him.