Manipulations or just the norm?

[JerryRG]

Hello everyone

I took my son on Sunday until this afternoon.

His mother is sick with a flu, not sure she's sick but I want to be with my son anyway.

She still texts me all the time talking about her personal issues and saying things that confuse me. Today she had my son from 8am until 2 after my AA meeting I picked him up again. She said she needed to shower but was afraid that he would wake up and see her in the shower. Seems like she was hinting I go to her place and watch him?

Yesterday she kept asking where we were and wanting to meet us somewhere. I do not understand this woman. She is acting so kind toward me now and even acts concerned about my health.

She told her mother she missed me because I was her best friend, the best friend she ever had.

Lord knows I gave her everything I had to give.

Anyway she's still seeking a lot of attention and as long as she's nice I don't mind sharing my time. I love making her laugh. She's fun when she's not not fun.

Confusion is still predominant and I shouldn't be surprised.

[once removed]

frankly JerryRG, it sounds to me like youve been, at least temporarily, painted white.

you say, for example, shes sharing her personal issues with you. how are you responding?

[Herodias]

You need not be confused. Obviously she is not so sure of her fiancé. She's triangulating you. You have been studing this- now put it into action. Maybe you could read some at shrink4men.com... .They will get you unconfused, They are tough on that site! Be nice to her to keep seeing your son/ but be strong. Did you find out about the people she has been giving your son to yet? Is that even true?

[JerryRG]

Hello once removed

She's talking about very personal things about her health, she explains her bodily functions is great detail. I'm being supportive and getting a inside view of her thinking and behaviours. From what I've learned about her from this site I am fascinated by BPD and it's effect on people. Her new bf never allows her to be alone around me. He must not trust her? Go figure.

Hello Blue, she's not very enthusiastic about her current relationship but yeah I know the triangulation going on and it's kind of fun exploring this. I know her so well, we shared our souls so she's not fooling me, she treats me better now than she did when we were together. Could this explain the fear of intimacy she may have? Her bf has this look of the dear in the headlight thing going on. Seems jealous when I'm around my exgf.

[sweet tooth]

Triangulation.

[Herodias]

I know what you mean... .it is amazing to see how they are once we know what they are. This is if you can detach yourself... It is kind of hard. Yet at the same time, you know their next partner will not last either so there is no reason to be jealous. Funny about there deer in headlights thing.  I saw a picture of my ex and his gf on thanksgiving. It was the same horrified look on her face that I had... .he was probably wasted and she looked nauseous- could have been the pregnancy too though, . I can't help but wonder how my husband is doing with this newborn. I keep expecting to hear from him eventually saying he made a big mistake. Maybe he won't... .just move on to someone else. Sometimes I think he thought of me as a friend, because I understood him like no other like you are saying too. It's like after it is over, they can really tell you some of their deep thoughts. It's fascinating and horrifying all at the same time. Glad you are handling things better. Just be careful, you need to be ten steps ahead of her, because if she tries to come back and you say no, it could cause havoc again... .kind of get a plan in mind for how you will handle things just in case.

[Sunfl0wer]

There is a pay off for her continuing this behavior with you.

Have you worked on removing yourself from the drama triangle?

Edit:

Oh, I see your statement:

I know the triangulation going on and it's kind of fun exploring this.

Apparently engaging in this drama triangle has a pay off to you as well in that it keeps you entertained.

I suppose that is your decision, or you can choose a rock concert! 

[JerryRG]

I'm aware she's doing it Sunflower so is there anything else I can do? I told her my life was perfect right now and I've never been happier. Told her my life is beatiful and it is, my recovery is a miracle and I'm very grateful to everyone including you on this site.

She knows I'm going back to her, I hope she does. She hasn't changed and I KNOW this.

[Herodias]

"She knows I'm going back to her"[/quote]
Was this a Freudian slip?

We do get caught up in the drama... .that's the problem. Whether we know it or not, we like this kind of stuff. Until we don't. Learn to not like drama... .I get the entertainment  of it all, but I agree about the rock concert- I am doing that instead... .much more fun and no hurtfulness involved.

[JerryRG]

Oh gosh, maybe... .

No I cannot, will not, ever go back to her.

My sponsors voice is still clearly audible in my ears, DO YOU KNOW HOW SICK YOU WERE TO BE IN THIS RELATIONSHIP?

No going backward, only forward

[Herodias]

Oh gosh, maybe... .

No I cannot, will not, ever go back to her.

My sponsors voice is still clearly audible in my ears, DO YOU KNOW HOW SICK YOU WERE TO BE IN THIS RELATIONSHIP?

No going backward, only forward

LOL good... .

[once removed]

Maybe you could read some at shrink4men.com... .They will get you unconfused, They are tough on that site!

not so sure about that, Blue. shrink4men is a mens advocacy (anti feminist) site, and pretty far from conventional mental health.

have a look at: Critical Review: Shrink 4 Men 

Hello once removed

She's talking about very personal things about her health, she explains her bodily functions is great detail. I'm being supportive and getting a inside view of her thinking and behaviours. From what I've learned about her from this site I am fascinated by BPD and it's effect on people. Her new bf never allows her to be alone around me. He must not trust her? Go figure.

i was under the impression you were strictly no contact with her? nothing wrong with being in contact (pretty hard not to be when you share a child), but what changed?

[Herodias]

They are extreme, but if you need a kick in the butt about your BPD ex, this will do it. I don't think all of their thoughts are fair, but just an insightful website.

[JerryRG]

Hey once removed

I was nc until last weekend and then Saturday she text stating my son was in the Children's Hospital with dehydration. She wasn't caring well for him or herself.

She's back to texting every 10 minutes throughout the day. I am maintaining bounderies but I'm still too eager to help her and comfort her. I need to stop this

[once removed]

Hey once removed

I was nc until last weekend and then Saturday she text stating my son was in the Children's Hospital with dehydration. She wasn't caring well for him or herself.

She's back to texting every 10 minutes throughout the day. I am maintaining bounderies but I'm still too eager to help her and comfort her. I need to stop this

what do your boundaries look like? in what areas are you maintaining them?

youve gotten some good feedback on whats drawing you into this.

[freemanstrut]

Hey once removed

I was nc until last weekend and then Saturday she text stating my son was in the Children's Hospital with dehydration. She wasn't caring well for him or herself.

She's back to texting every 10 minutes throughout the day. I am maintaining bounderies but I'm still too eager to help her and comfort her. I need to stop this

Fear:  Your son is unhealthy, and so is she.

Obligation:  Of course you want to help your son and his mother.

Guilt:  You haven't been there for or with her to help her be a good mother.

[JerryRG]

She just sent another text saying how handsome our son is. I need to reevaluate the last few days. This is going back to me supporting her again, she's being very kind to me but I'm sure that won't last. I'm confused again

[JerryRG]

Thank you freemanstrut

I'm confused again and need to get the bounderies back up and functional before she gets the wrong idea.

[freemanstrut]

My pleasure, bro.  Sometimes an outside perspective helps everything snap into place.

[JerryRG]

The more I think about my exgf the more she gives me the creeps, I never did see through her manipulation and I just overlooked her lies thinking one day she would develope a conscious.

I stayed around because of our son but what does her new bf see in her? She lies, she makes up illnesses, always sick and complains about everything, won't get a job, she's broke with no future and no hope. He must be so desperate for a gf that he's willing to put up with anything just to be with her.

These relationships always amaze me, I was blind and still am naive about BPD and the manipulation and irrationality of pwBPD.

My poor son must scratch his head in wonder at what he sees and hears. The more time he spends with me the better grounded in reality he will be. His mother is out of touch.

Her and her bf make my skin crawl when I'm around them, blah  

I've got to let her know I'm not interested in being friends anymore. She's not the type of person I would choose to be friends with. She's very unhealthy for me to be around or even talk to.

[C.Stein]

I caution you to tread very carefully here Jerry. 

I would also suggest you look back a couple of weeks or so to see what you were saying about your ex ... .then compare it to this thread.

I'm not suggesting either view of your ex is correct or not, but it seems to me she still has a significant amount of control over you.  This needs to end for your own sake.  Take back control of your life.

[once removed]

there is a middle ground here, i think. ideally, you can have a positive relationship with your sons mother that benefits your son (no guarantee, but there are skills and tools on the other boards that can help) without getting too close for your comfort or emotional safety.

fundamental to that is sound boundaries.

[C.Stein]

there is a middle ground here, i think. ideally, you can have a positive relationship with your sons mother that benefits your son (no guarantee, but there are skills and tools on the other boards that can help) without getting too close for your comfort or emotional safety.

fundamental to that is sound boundaries.

I second this and will add to try and stay objective when it comes to dealing with the ex.  Strive to find that safe emotional distance where you are safe and she is not triggered in either direction (abandonment/engulfment).  Think of it like the eye of the hurricane.   

[JerryRG]

Thank you C.Stein and once removed

I will take your advice to heart, she's been sending pictures of my son this morning while I'm at work. Nothing about herself except she took a bath. I have to remember she's mentally ill and has a serious personality disorder beside the unrecoverd addictions and histrionic.

I always look for the best in people and trust most tell the truth, she even told me last weekend that I was naive in my beliefs, she said Jerry you assume others are honest because you are. Huh... .

[C.Stein]

I always look for the best in people and trust most tell the truth

There is nothing wrong with this, I am the same.  The danger is you can be taken advantage of and used if you don't see certain behavior for what it is.  This is why it is important for you to remain objective when it comes to your ex, so you can see her and her behavior for what it is and not for what you want it to be.   

[once removed]

she even told me last weekend that I was naive in my beliefs, she said Jerry you assume others are honest because you are.

keep in mind at the heart of that personality disorder is a distorted world view, and an inherent distrust of others. your inherent trust of others may be kind of a foreign concept to her.

"trust but verify" is good advice to live by

[JerryRG]

That is true C, I did fall in love with an illusion and my sponsor always tells me to stick to the facts, intention is nothing more than an idea until action is taken.

We have this anology in AA:

Three frogs are sitting on a log and 2 decide to jump into the water, how many frogs are left on the log?

Most people say 1, the answer is all 3 are still there, just because we decide to do something yet take no action and actually do it we are still right where we were.

[JerryRG]

Very true once removed

She don't trust anyone including herself

[WoundedBibi]

Oh gosh, maybe... .

No I cannot, will not, ever go back to her.

My sponsors voice is still clearly audible in my ears, DO YOU KNOW HOW SICK YOU WERE TO BE IN THIS RELATIONSHIP?

No going backward, only forward

Then why on earth are you engaging with her and letting her triangulate you? That is NOT going forward. I agree there is some payoff for you in there or else you would not do this. Look at it, dig deep. Why are you getting enjoyment out of her behaviour? To me it seems you are standing in the middle of a raging fire and instead of trying to get out you're just standing there fascinated by the flames.

It might feel good she is no longer threatening you but no good can come of this. I think her relationship is failing, she is trying to make her fiancé jealous, you know she is and you are being a willing accomplice in this, and either you will succumb to her again and be recycled or you will at some point reject her if she really tries to suck you in and you are strong enough to resist and she will explode and paint you black again, spread rumours again about you abusing your son and raping her. Threaten to give away your son. Back off Jerry. This fire will consume you one way or the other. Be friendly but firm and distant.

And for Pete's sake get legal advice about what she is threatening to do with and doing to your son. Living with her will not set him up to be a balanced adult. Get full custody and move away from her.

[londons]

hi all, not that i know what im talkin' bout', seeing as i am in my own mess , but i am not surprised you are in this predicament.  you were doing well... .she is not liking that all too much, as she is losing the control she once had over you. you are claiming hold of your freedom, your choices, your life, and your happiness.  she is not a big fan of that, regardless of what is going on in her life!  i would not put into "words" to her the fact that you will be "pulling back", or going "lower contact".  just DO IT, end of story.  she does not deserve, nor do you owe her, an explanation as to your choices anymore.  your interactions/conversations with her should be involving your son, not her in the shower.  in other words, think this thru...    if you have the desire to go back to her, and start the cycle and pain all over again, continue what you are doing.   if you truly are done, regroup and hold back on the personal chit chat.  it wont stop, it will progress. in a weird way, she knows exactly what she is doing to pull u in, and it is obviously working.   this is soo difficult.     it hurts to do.    it feels so good to have that security back in some small way.   my support system says continually to me, "L., you are soo strong! we are so proud of you!"   little do they know, if he knocked at my door, i would probably jump into his arms!  so it is a good thing my ex is playing candy store with the women.  it makes no sense to me, the way my mind is working, why i still miss and desire him after all the heartbreak he has put me (his forever princess?  you miserable punk through.   but yeah, we know your situation.  you can pull the strength you need from your wise friends above.      BLUE HERON:  you need to get a newspaper column.  you are brilliant.  i cant wait for you to find a man that knows that... .   hugz to all, londons