Ok that was weird

[Icanteven]

Hadn't spoken to wifey in weeks, and today a situation arose where there was no choice but to call her.  She sounded clearer than she has in months, even prior to her leaving our family. 

After taking care of business I told her I would no longer stand for her mind games or manipulation or controlling behavior, and that if she wanted to speak with me in the future she would do so like she would with anyone else, to say nothing of her husband and long-time caretaker and father of our children, etc.

Suddenly she's talking to me and we're talking about having further conversations.

What's my next move?  Again, my long term goal is to reunite our family and help her get well, but before our convo today I felt like I was getting to a place of being okay; going through a deep acceptance phase that really made me feel numb, but getting there.

I deserve better than my what my wife has been to me, and the way she left and her callous-ness in being gone cause me to feel incredibly ambivalent about working towards reconciliation, but our children being estranged from their mother and me being estranged from my best friend and the love of my life make this an incredibly difficult choice. 

Long and short, how do I keep from screwing this up so that at some point we can reconcile?  I'm ok with not being with her, and we can't be married in the traditional sense at the moment anyway, but I want to make sure I don't do anything that prevents a reconciliation.  FYI, one of the last things she said was how hard this had been on her, through tears and barely audible speech, and that she misses me desperately but she can't be with me.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Icanteven, I'm confused.  On the one hand, you're "incredibly ambivalent" about a reconciliation; on the other hand, you are hoping for a reconciliation and don't want to screw up your chances of having that happen, right?  Maybe you could give us a brief update on your status.  Are you and your children living apart from your W?  What would need to happen in order for you to give things another try?  Sometimes it helps to figure out what you would like to see happen.

LuckyJim

[Icanteven]

If I were childless I'm not on these boards.  If she weren't my wife I'm not here either.  I have the kids and she is living somewhere else.  I want our children to have a mother.  I want my wife to be well.  But, those are the only two reasons I want to reconcile.  Sorry for any confusion, but if our family situation/marital status weren't a piece of this I would already be over it

[Leonis]

I want our children to have a mother.

I just want to point out that being physically there doesn't constitute to being a healthy influence to your children. I don't think your children will learn healthy relationship dynamics if she doesn't get some help herself. The issues will perpetuate into the next generation. The next thing you know, your son/daughter may be involved with someone like your wife or treating their SO like the way you are treated right now.

I want my wife to be well.

This is where you'll have to make a difficult decision. From what I've read on these boards, that's the biggest obstacle for more inflicted individuals to climb over. I know mine didn't. I hope all the best.

[livednlearned]

The deep acceptance place usually does not feel numb, it usually stirs (first) very uncomfortable, maybe painful, sometimes overwhelming feelings of grief, followed (eventually) by a sense of peace. She might dip in and out of mental illness and you would have a much more solid place from which to gauge what is happening, rather than feeling pulled one way or another when she dips and pivots.

Whether you stay with her or not, this acceptance phase is often critical. We become so focused on our unwell partner that we end up living artificially outside ourselves for so long it begins to feel normal. It can feel like there is no need to look at our own wounding, and so we don't. We kick the can down the road.

Deep acceptance often entails some kind of negotiations with your values, which may be submerged under a comfortable blanket of rescuing or fixing or saving or hoping someone else will get well so you can be ok. It can feel terrifying to get rid of this blanket because for many of us, it represents a feeling of superiority when in the presence of someone who is in a one-down position, which makes us feel worthy. Without that blanket, we are left to wonder what defines our worthiness.

Your next move might be to look at what happened in the conversation that represented your own health and well-being. It could explain why she responded in kind, with the healthiest response she could muster. It sounds to me like you had clear boundaries and were stepping into yourself, explaining what you stood for and how others (her) are expected to treat you. Reading between the lines, it sounds like you are finding self worth separate from what she does. For someone who has an unstable sense of self, this is like having the brain (you) help regulate the feelings (her).

EDIT:

I just want to point out that being physically there doesn't constitute to being a healthy influence to your children. I don't think your children will learn healthy relationship dynamics if she doesn't get some help herself.

I have found the opposite to be true. When the non-afflicted person gets therapy, we become an example for our kids about how to deal in healthy ways with grief and sadness. We can then teach our kids about resilience when we understand what it is. This often occurs by resolving our own grief, not by hoping that someone else will resolve their issues.

Icanteven's wife is in therapy, which is pretty scary for someone with BPD so there is a different dynamic here than someone who expends energy persuading their loved one to seek help.

[an0ught]

Hi Icanteven,

After taking care of business I told her I would no longer stand for her mind games or manipulation or controlling behavior, and that if she wanted to speak with me in the future she would do so like she would with anyone else, to say nothing of her husband and long-time caretaker and father of our children, etc.

You can tell her but it won't matter. What did matter however was some degree of separation over the past weeks. That did make a difference. Telling won't. Behavior does.

Long and short, how do I keep from screwing this up so that at some point we can reconcile?  I'm ok with not being with her, and we can't be married in the traditional sense at the moment anyway, but I want to make sure I don't do anything that prevents a reconciliation.  FYI, one of the last things she said was how hard this had been on her, through tears and barely audible speech, and that she misses me desperately but she can't be with me.

You can't avoid risks you can only manage them. There will be some sliding back. What you need are boundaries that allow you to put a stop right there when it happens. The earlier you put a stop the less sliding back.

Part of the question may not be - how do we get together again - but how do we keep apart to a degree once we got together again? Not how do we avoid fighting but how do we fight and recover from it?

[Icanteven]

I wish this would get weirder [genie appears, wish is granted].

Started an argument with poorly chosen words this weekend and got the anger with both barrels.  Wifey said she was really happy that I get to go out now and sleep around and start over with a clean slate (because a middle-aged dad in the middle of a divorce with children he's taking care of alone is a really attractive proposition).  Lots of F-bombs, lots of rage, then a total shutdown.

This morning, wifey calls me and I apologize for how poorly I worded my statement and tell her that, of course I care about her because she is the love of my life.

Why did she call back this morning after reading me the riot act last night?

Why was she so open to a very quick "I'm sorry, I can see how you interpreted what I said the way you did, and more than that, it was a terrible choice of words; forgive me; what I meant was this... ."?

Why is she more than happy to talk to me every day of late (I've been unblocked all over the place and we are quite literally speaking every day now after months of very low contact)?

Despite the above, why does she insist that our marriage is not worth saving?

This is confusing as hell.  What I want is for her to say that she'd be willing to honor our vows and make an attempt to work on our marriage.  She is very religious when it comes to our wedding vows (even if she is irreligious about so much else), yet those vows appear to mean nothing at the moment.  As I said to her today, I can't talk you into loving me or beg you into coming home or tell you how things can work; I have to show you that I can make the (handful) of changes you need.  But you'd have to work with me to give me what I need as well. 

We've been together a long time; this is a first-time event; it is almost certainly in response to me insisting that love be an action verb; she made this decision in the face of a massive mental health crisis.

I just don't know what to do. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey canteven, Suggest you avoid focusing on what you want her to say, because that is something over which you have no control.  Instead, suggest you focus on what is within your control, which is a lot less confusing.  Put your energy where your power is.

Maybe there's nothing to "do"; instead, perhaps you could spend time listening to your gut feelings?

LuckyJim

[an0ught]

Hi Icanteven,

Why did she call back this morning after reading me the riot act last night?

Why was she so open to a very quick "I'm sorry, I can see how you interpreted what I said the way you did, and more than that, it was a terrible choice of words; forgive me; what I meant was this... ."?

Why is she more than happy to talk to me every day of late (I've been unblocked all over the place and we are quite literally speaking every day now after months of very low contact)?

Despite the above, why does she insist that our marriage is not worth saving?

Letting it rip can be quite validating. You get your stuff out and feel better. Certainly she die.

Is your marriage worth saving? What does saving mean? Does marriage matter or does the relationship to your wife matter?

If you try to save your marriage what would be the outcome in practical terms?

If the relationship to your wife improves what would be the outcome in practical terms?