I've reached out to the biblical counselor about emotions

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm not sure. . . . What things are you "not OK with" happening? And how will you now handle them?

I understand that you will have boundaries, particularly involving things that concern your children. That makes total sense to me.

[KateCat]

I'm not sure. . . . What things are you "not OK with" happening? And how will you now handle them?

I understand that you will have boundaries, particularly involving things that concern your children. That makes total sense to me.

[KateCat]

Here's what I think I mean when discussing "radical acceptance" for your situation: Would you radically accept that if you obtained a professional position such as the last one you had, that your wife would revert again to the set of behaviors she displayed during your last employment? Or would you think that things will be quite different this time?

I know that you would work to ensure that your wife could not directly sabotage your position at work, but what would happen on the home front? And what would happen to your health?

[formflier]

Employment:  It is a possibility that my wife would go back to some of those behaviors.  At the moment I am not actively pursuing employment.  I am actively pursuing a MBA or something like that.  Part of that is to give some time for whatever growth and healing to happen before trying to get back into the world of work.

Plus, with an MBA, consultant type work is much more likely, than without.  Work that may be a bit more flexible in the manner in which it is done.

Being a public figure is over.  My wife plays a big part in that, but not 100% of that.  Working for politicians is not a good fit for me.  I'm used to carrying out "clear decisions".  Politicians don't do that.

What I have radically accepted is that my wife will "impact" my future employment choices.  Perhaps I get a great job and she can't handle it.  I have my priorities straight and will be wise about supporting my family and making good choices.  (this assumes tools have been used properly and she still "can't handle it". 

Life will go on if I am never again "Mr Bigshot". 

So, I will not "run away" from the world of work based on "fear" of what my wife may do.  But I WILL approach it with very clear eyes and expectations. 

Hope that helps clarify things.

Priorities:  My youngest is three.  I am the "emotional leader" in the house.  Getting her out the door (so to speak) as emotionally healthy as I can is priority number 1.  That will flow down to all the older kids.

FF

[KateCat]

That clarifies things.  

[Harri]

Hi FF.  I have been following your threads ever since the buggy caper as I learn a lot from you and all the people who respond.  I appreciate your openness.  There are a few things I have wanted to post to you in various threads of yours, but by the time I can gather my thoughts, we are on page 4 and my comments no longer fit or I fear they will be lost by the looming post limit.  Please realize that my comments are not just in relation to this thread so some of this may seem unrelated.  so, with that preamble, here goes.

Sometimes it seems that you take on an almost paternal role with your wife.  Trying to get her to see and admit things, to follow your rules, etc.  Some of that impression may stem from the Biblical marriage you are in and the whole idea of 'headship' I admit that I only have a vague idea of what that is (and yes I did a bit of reading on it), but (!) it seems to me there is blurring of lines between being in a relationship with her and trying to "fix" her.  

I think a lot of people forget that denial (and all the other defense strategies) is there as a protective mechanism.  She will see what she needs to see when she needs to see it... .and hopefully will have access to a trained professional when that time comes.  It is not your place to try to break though those mental and emotional protections.  You can theorize all you want about what is going on with your wife but none of her issues are for you to point out, probe or attempt to fix.  As you said, you are not qualified.  In addition, it is not appropriate for you to take on that role.  You are not her parent or therapist.  You are her husband and partner.

She is also working to show me that boundaries are not mean.  They are actually a "kind and loving" thing to do.  To point out to the world that this is where I end and you begin.

How do you see this applying to you?  Can you see where you often talk about your wife mind-reading and telling you what your emotions are and how you do the very same to your wife?  You may not express them directly like your wife does, but you do seem to at least act on your assumptions.  Perhaps this is an area that prompted the BC's remark that you both have turned to blaming the other?

(this is where I go off on something not specifically related to this thread but it is an area I think permeates your marriage)  I've also noticed that on a few occasions you have mentioned that you have had a hard time hiding your amusement when your wife has felt cornered and was squirming (or whatever).    Chances are your wife senses that amusement.  That amusement indicates a feeling of superiority, condescension, and in a lot of cases, contempt whether you realize it or not.   It may not be your intention, but your amusement will be obvious to anyone who is tuned in to others and who is good at reading people.   Think about it FF.  If someone is having a rough time comprehending or dealing with something, especially if it is in a sensitive area, coupled with BPD/traits, and they sense you being amused by the process, you are going to make it even harder for them to fight through all the emotions and stay in the moment.  Never mind the fact that it is just plain disrespectful. Take a look at the log in your own eye.     I sort of equate this to when your wife laughs when you say you are disabled.  How does it feel?

Maybe rather than trying to hide your amusement you could remind yourself of the depth of emotions your wife is struggling with and sit quietly in support with compassion rather than amusement in your heart.  Please do not fool yourself into thinking you are hiding this amusement from your wife.  Nobody is that good.  If you can't control it, then remove yourself from the situation.  Take this as an area you should focus on for *you*.  Is the amusement you feel coming from a place of love, patience and acceptance?  

FF, as always, take what fits and leave the rest.  

Take care and be well.  

[gotbushels]

Hi everyone 

With due respect to those who have experience in marriage and Christianity, I'm hoping to help with an idea that might clarify the situation. Please excuse me if I missed something in the backstory.

Would it help you to clarify your intentions to yourself FF?

Talking exclusively about intentions, this is your intention:

the purpose of the meetings was to get together and organize getting the family to church on time.  The attempt/direction is to lead my wife through this (doing it differently).  She apparently doesn't want to do it differently and wants to focus on my emotions (that I don't actually have) and be disruptive of the meeting with that focus.

This is her intention:

We've got about 2 hours of talk time and some writing back and forth in trying to sort out how we are going to do this Sunday morning (organizationally). (I think it should take about 15 minutes... tops)

The discussions keep falling apart (IMO) as she starts talking about my thoughts and emotions.  Basically... standard BPDish drivel about putting someone in corner and trying to get them to defend thoughts and emotions they don't have.

In a non and pwBPD context, you aren't working on the same problem with her. From what I understand, the non would need to:

1) have a clear definition of the problem; then

2) validate the BP; then

3) go to the actual act of problem-solving.

Instead of solving the two problems (you have one, she seems to have one). I'm getting the feeling that you are discussing everything about the roles of Christian husbands and wives instead of actually proceeding to problem solve. You both seem to be spending a lot of effort and exertion on not solving the problems that you both went to see the counsellor for.

I hope this helps and you have some time to rest:)

[formflier]

Good posts.  Thanks for the input and keep it coming.


I do see the paternal part of me in our r/s.  At the end of the day I am responsible for those that have been entrusted to me.  8 kids and 1 wife.  It's hard to "turn of" the paternal way of approaching things

Interesting that you brought this up.  It has been talked about by my wife and I to a limited extent.  We have long had the habit of calling each other "mommy and daddy" because kids are usually around.  Yes there are times when I would call her by her name or by a pet name that I have for her.  We have both been trying to call each other by our first names more, even around the kids.

We had mentioned this, really my wife brought it up as a more minor issue.  I'll have to give this some thought.


Amusement:   Comments are right on the mark.  I will say in defense of me and those that use this defense mechanism that the emotion has to go somewhere.  I used to lash out or point out the preposterousness  (I think I just made up a word) of what was being said.  Now there is more of an internal gallows humor or chuckle to what I hear as I focus on keeping my outward appearance calm and focused.

Again, comments are right on the mark.  I'm still working on this.  In FF fashion, I'm probably somewhere between good and better on the good, better, best thing.

For the meetings thing.  I am an agenda driven guy.  I can't force my wife to stay on topic.  But I will stay engaged with her as long as talk is not abusive or crosses a boundary. 

The problem we are discussing is Sunday morning, that is the agenda.  I'll be happy to schedule time to discuss a different agenda item at a different time.  So yes there are other, obvious problems to discuss, but "put them each in their own bucket", separate them into smaller parts, whatever the analogy.

I'll come back to these posts later.  Thanks for the input and observations.

FF

[formflier]

Skip KateCat and all the others that are asking about radical acceptance.  Just know that this will be topic one with the Psychologist today.

Perhaps my hopes of improvement are too much or completely unrealistic.

Of course something has happened that has got me thinking about this.  The good news is that I have not been reactive or lashed out, and I don't think any significant legal damage has been done, time will tell.

Like many on here, we have complicated stories.



I have been in a long running contractual legal dispute.  Recently got a legal payout from this where we settled instead of going to court.  So, in a sense I "won" (KatCat has likely has been around enough of this to understand that I don't feel like a "winner", but am glad the matter is settled)

I thought wife was onboard and thought "our side" was in the right.  There were competing claims, some quite slanderous. 

Our legal team has been clear with us that we don't talk to them, we talk to our lawyers, our lawyers talk to their lawyers, and their lawyers talk to them.  Pretty standard, adult stuff.

Guess who my wife has been calling and talking to in order to "understand" what I have really been up to, ?

Yep, the other side.  They filled her head with lies, I believe one of our lawyers was able to "talk her down a bit" yesterday.

I was "confronted" with what she found out during biblical MC yesterday.  To his credit, he did try to help her see that I might perceive this as her "going behind my back". 

He seemed more interested in "me confronting my sinful reactions", which I would describe as incredulous reaction, .do what? 

Likely I still don't firmly grasp what she has done here.

Lawyer doesn't think this changes anything or did any real damage.  He directly expressed concern about my martial r/s.

I don't know the exact days or times that she called, so not able to match things up that way.  Not sure if that would help me understand, or if that would matter.

We have had regular conversations about the legal case, as it progressed.  I have been open to see if she has any questions and have offered her access, which she has declined, to most lawyer meetings and phone calls.  Biblical MC drew this out of her and when asked why she didn't come to me with concerns and questions, especially when I had been open she said something to the effect that she thinks I "might" be lying and felt she needed to know "the truth".

Sigh,

So, right now as I reread my post.  This seems like a guy in denial, or not fully grasping the severity of the situation.

Is this what you guys have been trying to say, that it appears I am in denial?



FF



 

[KateCat]

I would say that just for right now, just until you come out of the fog, it might be best to take your guidance from the two types of counselors who are most likely to be able to protect you personally: the attorneys and the licensed psychologist. (Not that there's anything wrong with continuing to attend the biblical counseling with your wife as well.)

Do you feel that both the attorney and the psychologist are trying to tell you something important? I'm remembering in general terms the psychologist's comment that your wife's paranoia seemed a striking case, at least in her experience.

I would share the details of this legal matter with your psychologist if I were you, so she can roll up her sleeves and start helping you plan for the future. (Formal diagnosis of your wife may never happen and may not really matter.)

[formflier]

Yep, I sent my wife's writeup to the P.  And have appt later today.

Yes, she described my wife's story and "acting out" of my attempt to kill her with the sex toy as one of the "top 5" or "top 10" (don't exactly remember how she put it) that she has seen.  As in , worst,

Sigh

FF

[KateCat]

I can't think of a positive spin to put on it, except that every member of your family has been living with Mom's mental illness, but probably without much understanding. You being able to make big changes now will brighten the future of all of your children. It seems that "everyone" is saying that change will start and perhaps even end with you. This is what I think too.

Of course . . . if you ever see any scientific evidence that paranoia can be cured, please share it with me. 

[formflier]

 

Yep, and there is undeniable "metric based" (my kinda thing) proof that D5 is responding really well to the changes I am implementing at the direction of the psychologist.

Other kids seem to be doing better as well.

Somehow, in the midst of all this craziness, I need to figure out how to be stronger and hopefully use that strength for the betterment of my family.

FF

[KateCat]

This is your prime mission, so I think you will accomplish it. 

[Cat Familiar]

wow, FF! That sounds like you truly got a wakeup call about your wife's paranoia. We can so easily delude ourselves into believing that their mental illness isn't as severe as we had thought when things are going more smoothly. But the idea that it will always be something we'll have to cope with, defend ourselves from (and others in your case), and always be on guard--no wonder so many of us are exhausted. And most people outside the relationship have no clue... .

 

[formflier]

And, the biblical counselor is leaning hard on me to do things to "build trust" in my wife.  Basically implying that she won't be paranoid if I do xyx.

He outright refused to discuss it yesterday and wanted to focus on why I lead the way I do.

So, because this is best way to deal with paranoid person is now off table, .Grr

Lots to talk about today with P

FF

[KateCat]

Your efforts to knit these two forms of counseling together will probably help any number of men who participate here in bpdfamily. Kind of like a Townsend and Cloud Boundaries experience . . . .