10 minutes of hell, 6 months down the drain.

[Stripey77]

Hi folks;

I don't exactly know why I'm posting this per se other than I think I need to reach out a bit and find some support, apart from continuously leaning on (probably exhausted) friends and parents after the events of this last weekend gone. I am so so very sad and angry right now, I almost can't be bothered to allow myself to feel or process those emotions, it's all just too much. As a net result, I just feel emotionally TIRED.

In a nutshell, as some of you will know, my ex BF (undiagnosed) has recently been back in my life to some small degree after 6 horrendous months of ST, being blocked, ignored etc. Over a course of 2 nights out a week apart, and then a subsequent further night together (yes, I have been 'with' him in every sense of the word, and I don't regret it, it was wonderful and healing) he went on holiday to his home country. On our last night together, it was if the last 8 months hadn't happened, he was friendly, affectionate, even interested in my day and so on, like old times. I won't post in detail about this on here but there were reasons for our extended period of not talking, and some of those are my fault, and he had a right to be angry. The punishment doled out as a consequence was a massive overkill, but nonetheless, in the much longer run, the spell was broken and he approached me, and we aired a great deal of things. I hasten to add, that my highly intelligent, lucid, and articulate ex is undiagnosed, but by his own repeated confessions, has a 'darkness' in his head and I have good reason to suspect that he has at least SOME BPD traits.  

Anyway, despite kissing me goodbye and his last words being to me that he would see me when he got back, and that he would 'maybe' message me - neither of these things has happened. This itself is sad for me, as I had obviously hoped after all that happened between us a few weeks ago (and it was a lot, very emotionally charged) that he would have least made contact by now. However, trying to remain pragmatic and logical, his current silence doesn't mean for one second that I wouldn't hear from  him again. The horrific punitive ST at least has been broken, so I guess he was just playing hardball/taking his time on his return. By all accounts he stayed in holiday mode and went straight back out partying etc. However, I did actually clap eyes on him on his 2nd day back, and he saw me, of course he was with his female 'best friend' but at least he held my gaze and smiled at me from a distance. He didn't get up to speak to me, and it was a hard thing to see, but still a huge improvement on being walked past and almost looked through as he has done for all these months prior. I did up in tears as I really had hoped to have heard from him, but I was fairly sure he would talk to me in good time.  I had already sent a very simple, non committal 'welcome home' text. His acknowledgement of me I suppose is progress.

Before you ask, yes,  I want my ex back, and yes I am still in love with him. But in the absence of this, and being more realistic and logical, I'd take a friendship or at least friendly terms to be able to say hi, etc. It is better than being told you're deleted/dead to someone and being walked past, especially in such a tiny town.

Fast forward to a couple of days later. To cut a long story short, I was out with a group of girls, on a 'big night out' - including one recently separated friend,who I am sad to say it seems has major psychotic problems of her own when under the influence. Despite claiming a few weeks ago after one more devastating incident that led to the end of her relationship, that she would never EVER drink again, she was drinking. When she came back to town, it was me who took her in, supported her and paid for things to get her back on her feet... .this isn't too relevant... .but it is slightly in light of what has happened.

This friend is known for starting fights of a frightening magnitude, which I have witnessed before and have been in fear for her life, and have witnessed her transform, as one of my other friends put it, almost into a wild animal.  It is terrifying to behold, truly terrifying.

On Saturday night, whilst all out, we happened to find ourselves at about 4 in the morning in the same bar as my ex, who still hadn't approached me to say he was back. Of course, he was drunk as well. We had all been drinking but I was fairly clear headed.

Imagine my horror when said friend decided that, a switch having gone off in her head, that she was going to confront and attack my ex bf. Before I could stop her or do anything, and it took all of us to get her off, she took it upon herself to square up to him, attempt to physically and to actually verbally assault him.  All on my 'behalf' you understand, unasked for and totally unwanted - she went for the jugular. Speaking in a mixture of 2 languages I suspect, so was hardly really understandable. He actually turned to me and asked me what on earth was going on and who was this person. He put his arm round me and looked back at her -as if to say, look, despite everything you're saying, she's still here by my side.

My friend went ballistic. She made a second attempt on him. I told my ex to disregard her, and to look at me. He looked me in the eyes and said 'you know me'. I agreed. My friend then went on to call him some ugly names, before launching herself on ME and telling  me what a stupid girl I am, never to speak to her/see her again if I went with him,  etc. etc. All at top volume and in public. Trying to prod him in the chest and attack him. The whole thing must have lasted minutes but felt like an eternity. My ex actually recognised that I was distressed and put his arm round me, asking me if I was ok. I told him no I wasn't, but he had obviously noted this and was trying to reach out to me. I had my head in my hands by this point, I was so incredulous and upset about what was going on.

Minutes later, after we finally got her off and she was exiting the bar (before trying to fight other random men downstairs) I found my ex and tried to give him a hug... I said I would leave as obviously it had all been awful and it was very very late. The same man who had his arms round me just moments before was suddenly pushing  me off and telling me that he didn't 'deserve any hug' from me. Because, in his words, he is an evil person and doesn't deserve me. Just like that. It's like I watched the pendulum swing in a matter of minutes. What happened in between was her verbal assault to the two of us.  He left without looking back or acknowledging me, or any of his friends, again.


Six months I have waited to be back on speaking terms with my ex. Six months of sadness, heartbreak, distress... .all of which lifted when we started speaking again. All my efforts gone in less than 10 minutes of someone else's unforgivable action from a totally psychotic (now ex) friend. I have heard him do himself down before, but to go so far as to describe himself as evil... .note that at no point did he say I was in the wrong, or a bad person this time... .that he was evil and undeserving. The self hatred was almost tangible. Yet minutes before he'd been trying to comfort me and talk to me.   I will never know now whether he was planning on talking to me,  or if/when he would ask to see me again. I was biding my time and treading carefully in a very delicate situation.

She has tried to apologise to me at the advice of the rest of the group. I have disregarded it. I spent Sunday almost unable to stop crying with disbelief and shock. Of all the fights she had to pick in the world, all the people to attack, she chose him. There are no words that will make this ok - not least of all because she doesn't actually remember what she said and did, and doesn't even seem to know about the things she screamed at me. So how can her apology mean a thing? In her addled state, she probably thought she was doing me a favour and being the one to tell him at long last what an a-hole he is.

The thing is I KNEW already what he is.  I know how much he has hurt me and that this situation can't go on. I am hardly a naive school girl. Yes, my friends are fed up on my behalf. But not in 1 million years would I have taken this approach toward him. I DO know him, and that's just the point - she doesn't. She sees my hurt and sees what she thinks is me being taken for a fool, but I am not a fool. Just in love with someone who has emotional problems and acts like a b*stard at times as a result. I had no delusions that we'd suddenly get married or even back together. But I was very much hoping to forge a friendship of sorts at least with him, I felt we had both sorted out so much before he went away. I'm so angry with her I don't want to know her anymore at all. My feelings are quite cut and dried on this and were instantaneous.  She knew what the last 6 months had been like for me and she's done this. She even tried justifying to it our other friends by asking if she was just supposed to keep her mouth shut? The answer was 'yes'.

The damage for me is incalculable. I just wanted to talk about it. I am quite sure he hasn't blamed me for those events, it was quite quite clear to everyone that it wasn't what I wanted, as everyone who witnessed it said. But I am so sad to have heard him describe himself as evil and to have walked out the way he did. I think she triggered his feelings of unworthiness. He was well aware she was screaming at him about me as he put his arm round me and stared at her. But her words obviously hurt him. Logically, I know from our history and his patterns of behaviour that he will of course speak to me again. Who knows when now. But I can't even begin to find it in myself to forgive what happened in those few minutes.

I don't care about the things she said to me and how stupid I am... .she can f*ck off. But has anyone else suddenly seen their ex swing to a point of unworthiness like this? It has made me very sad.

[steelwork]

Stripey: what an awful experience. How heartbreaking--all of it, especially the confusing partial rapprochement with your ex.

Does this description of the Karpman Drama Triangle resonate? Because that's what I think of. Your friend has been cast as persecutor... .


https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

[once removed]

Your friend has been cast as persecutor... .

thats one way of seeing it. she was certainly the instigator and behaved, well, badly. the karpman drama triangle works in such a way that two roles can be occupied by one person, and it would probably look very differently from everyones perspective. one might be that the friend is the rescuer. from the exes perspective, it sounds like he views himself as the persecutor, and that this attack was deserved.

in that light, Stripey77, i would advise you to be careful who you confide in and what you say. if youre looking to improve your situation, while venting to your friends, its going to skew everyones perspective.

But has anyone else suddenly seen their ex swing to a point of unworthiness like this? It has made me very sad.

people with BPD often have low self esteem, and feelings of unworthiness are ingrained in their belief system - the belief that they are fundamentally flawed, "bad", "evil", "unworthy", etc.

20 Common Negative Assumptions in BPD thinking:

  1. I will always be alone

  2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.

  3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.

  4. I can't manage by myself, I need someone I can fall back on.

  5. I have to adapt my needs to other people's wishes, otherwise they will leave me or attack me.

  6. I have no control of myself.

  7. I can't discipline myself.

  8. I don't really know what I want.

  9. I need to have complete control of my feelings otherwise things go completely wrong.

10. I am an evil person and I need to be punished for it.

11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.

12. I will never get what I want.

13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.

14. My feelings and opinions are unfounded.

15. If you comply with someone's request, you run the risk of losing yourself.

16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.

17. Other people are evil and abuse you.

18. I'm powerless and vulnerable and I can't protect myself.

19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.

20. Other people are not willing or helpful.

Source: Behaviour Research & Therapy article [only abstract available]

[Stripey77]

Thank you for your input, both, I'll look into this more closely later.

Re: confiding in someone, agreed, but of course the thing to factor into this is her being under the influence (not just drink) which triggered her very real psychosis.  That's the only word I can think of to describe what we've seen.  As I say, SHE thought she was doing me a 'favour' i.e. removing the scales from my eyes etc. and giving me some kind of 'tough love'. Quite frankly,  I certainly don't need screaming at banshee like, sworn at, almost cast out by a so called friend to 'learn a lesson'. As I said, I already knew and know that he is damaged goods and hurting me. Unfortunately, not confiding in her is too late - the horse has already bolted. The friendship is however utterly over - I can't believe how protective I felt over him despite everything he's done to me. I actually feel sorry for him, and I felt as if I lost him all over again after so much progress made.  Remember just how tiny our town is, it is hard to keep much secret anyway. But agreed.

The whole thing was nightmare-ish. It's done so we are where we are. I know I know I know he will talk to me again. I know he will. I don't think he was blaming me at all. But just so bloody sad about the massive backward step someone else's actions have caused, and can't believe the reaction it triggered in him in just moments. We had got almost to a point of 'normality' before he went away and granted, there is no knowing when he was going to deign to speak to me on his return. My friend (who no doubt was heavily guided by her own sadness etc. about her own situation) was fuming that he hadn't yet spoken to me after all that happened between us that last week he was here. But there is no way she could begin to understand the damage she's done and what I wanted. What other people want you to do/say/let go of according to their own time frames and beliefs is one thing, but trying to force them is another, and the point is, her actions have done NOTHING to help my situation.

Above all I just feel that she has ridden completely roughshod over my own wishes. I would never, ever ever have taken such an aggressive and confrontational path with him. I feel like she's taken a 10 lb sledgehammer to crush a single glass. Sigh.

[Stripey77]

The thing is, I don't know what to 'do' now, if anything. We'd been in a better place than we have for months and despite him not having contacted me since returning from holiday, I was fairly sure he would be speaking to me soon enough. As many of you know, this (friendly terms) is what I longed for if nothing else was ever to become of us again. I now feel as though we've taken one huge step backwards-I don't suppose for a minute he blames me for what happened last week, I just feel so sad that his final words to me were that I should 'disappear' from him because he's evil. Just minutes before he had his arms round me and was trying to comfort me. I don't know whether to text him, remain silent, whether I'll be ignored again now... .or what. I am just so terribly sad about it.

[Stripey77]

Well... .at least I know how he has chosen to react to last weekend's events. Or to something else going on his head, who knows... .

I was with my friends last night, one of whom was there the night all of this kicked off when my other friend attacked him. We were walking through town to the cab rank and he was walking the other way with a guy I don't know... as we got right next to each other I smiled and said 'hi'.

Totally and utterly blanked. He looked at me as if slightly displeased and carried on walking.

So here we go again. And this time I really really don't know what I am supposed to have done to have been deemed deserving of this treatment.

:'(

[Stripey77]

I was so upset and in disbelief, my legs actually started shaking.  And today I've eaten nothing. Just too sad.

[C.Stein]

So here we go again. And this time I really really don't know what I am supposed to have done to have been deemed deserving of this treatment.

It likely doesn't have anything to do with you directly.  The incident caused him to feel bad about himself.  Seeing you reminded him of the incident and those feelings and he wants/needs to distance himself from those feelings.  What do you think?

[Stripey77]

Almost certainly. I have to agree to given that his last words to were to 'disappear from me, I'm an evil person, I don't deserve a hug from you'.

His behaviour towards me is having the net result of making nearly every last one of my friends and family inclined to agree with him, that's the problem.  Of course I know that this is the double edged sword of the disorder, the lack of self worth and subsequent pushing away, meaning that in the long run, the recipient of all this behaviour ultimately is so broken they do go. Not because I agree that he's evil, but because he's broken my heart several times over.

I find it almost beyond comprehension that this is the same man who just a few weeks ago was holding me tightly in his arms after reconciling (in a fashion) and telling me that the problem is in his brain, that he still loves me, is attracted to me, who was at pains to bring me to his house to show me that no one had taken my place. Not a promise for us to get back together, far from it as he was insisting 'we don't work' but who nonetheless was clearly drawn to be in my presence and, as I said, spent 3 nights in one week with me. I saw the old bf i fell in love with.

And now Mr. Hyde  has come back from holiday.   I am 100% sure that the events of last weekend have not helped at all. But, without letting my friend 'off the hook' so to speak and minimising the effects of her actions, the sad truth is that almost certainly had it not been that, there would have been another reason sooner or later. I genuinely think I see in my ex an attempt to push me away almost to protect me because in his own eyes, he is undeserving and bad.

The only thing I can take comfort in, somehow, is that the 6 months of ST treatment I was subjected to before were almost directly aimed at punishing me. This feels as if he's just shut down on me  (and it's not the first time) but not as if he is angry with me.

Still, it is utterly heartbreaking for the person you were making love to just a few weeks ago to be walking past you as a non-entity. I feel emotionally beaten up.

But yes, I agree with what you're saying and drew a similar conclusion. I also know, almost without doubt, that he will want to talk to me again at some point. But I am so very tired. And as much as I know, logically, that this is everything to do with him and nothing to do with me having 'done' something... .it still really hurts.