What's love got to do with it?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm posting here because I'm scared but really leaning towards us getting back together.

My love for her has everything to do with it. I just can't let it go. I've tried but it keeps haunting.  I think of all the cute moments in our relationship.

In the past 2 months, she has bought me flowers. Took me out to eat. Gave me full body massage that was long overdue, Cooked me breakfast, and has answered all of my calls and text like we discussed.   At this point, I'm confused and don't know what to think.  Says she wants me back. That shes ready for us to grow. That i am and always will be the love of her life no matter what she's done or said in the past.

I'm reading here and I didn't see anyone say that this is normal borderline behavior.  They usually don't admit any wrong doing right? Maybe she's not as ill as I thought.  But should I go for it? or am I just setting myself up for more pain?

[FallBack!Monster]

I'm posting here because I'm scared but really leaning towards us getting back together.

My love for her has everything to do with it. I just can't let it go. I've tried but it keeps haunting.  I think of all the cute moments in our relationship.

In the past 2 months, she has bought me flowers. Took me out to eat. Gave me full body massage that was long overdue, Cooked me breakfast, and has answered all of my calls and text like we discussed.   At this point, I'm confused and don't know what to think.  Says she wants me back. That shes ready for us to grow. That i am and always will be the love of her life no matter what she's done or said in the past.

I'm reading here and I didn't see anyone say that this is normal borderline behavior.  They usually don't admit any wrong doing right? Maybe she's not as ill as I thought.  But should I go for it? or am I just setting myself up for more pain?

[schwing]

I'm reading here and I didn't see anyone say that this is normal borderline behavior.  They usually don't admit any wrong doing right? Maybe she's not as ill as I thought.  But should I go for it? or am I just setting myself up for more pain?

It sounds like you are being seduced.  How is that not a "normal borderline behavior"?

My love for her has everything to do with it. I just can't let it go. I've tried but it keeps haunting.  I think of all the cute moments in our relationship.

Balance your consideration with all the non-cute moments in your relationships.  All the behaviors that made you think she might have BPD in the first place.  Then decide.

In the past 2 months, she has bought me flowers. Took me out to eat. Gave me full body massage that was long overdue, Cooked me breakfast, and has answered all of my calls and text like we discussed.

What was she like prior to the past 2 months?  Did she do any of these things?

At this point, I'm confused and don't know what to think.  Says she wants me back. That shes ready for us to grow. That i am and always will be the love of her life no matter what she's done or said in the past.

That's what she says.  Now does what she say square away with any of her past behavior?  What happened in the last 2 months that would change (if there is any change) her feelings towards you that would justify what she is saying?

You should consider if she is not "idealizing" at this moment.  After all, none of us fell in love with the "devaluing" behavior in our BPD loved ones.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[jrharvey]

I'm reading here and I didn't see anyone say that this is normal borderline behavior.  They usually don't admit any wrong doing right? Maybe she's not as ill as I thought.  But should I go for it? or am I just setting myself up for more pain?

My girlfriend will apologize and admit she is wrong but only about 1 or 2 days after a huge explosion. My GF has been known to completely blow up, break up, throw things over the tiniest things like me not texting her that I left work and just went home. She will feel bad about that and admit her reaction was too much. Sometimes she will swing back and forth saying she was wrong, then I was wrong, then she was wrong again, then I was wrong etc... .Just depends on the day I guess.

In the past 2 months, she has bought me flowers. Took me out to eat. Gave me full body massage that was long overdue, Cooked me breakfast, and has answered all of my calls and text like we discussed.

My GF does all these things and more when she is happy. It makes it so hard to leave. Honestly the idealization phase is just heaven. Right now I'm in idealization. Its amazing. Wont last long though.

[FallBack!Monster]

What was she like prior to the past 2 months?  Did she do any of these things?

She would massage me yes, but only when I asked. But she did.  Also, almost always offered to pay when we went out to eat. Once she painted me black, she had stopped replying to calls. But when she admitted to doing wrong she said, it's hard for her to process all the stuff that might be thrown on her, at once. So she would much rather wait 'til the smoke clears. But it never did.  She also repeatedly said "I trying. I'm trying."

The only difference between now and then is that she is moody, where in the past she would always play the innocent, shy, child like masked person. Now, her mood changes are visible.

I'm not thinking it would be perfect. I'm wondering if I should do that to my heart. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Back2Me, What have you decided, if anything?  I'm concerned about the "huge explosions" when your GF has been known to "completely blow up, break up and throw things."  To me, these are red flags.   
My BPDxW had a "temper" and did the same things, which I now see as indicative of BPD.  But back then, I had never heard of BPD and had no experience with people suffering from a PD.  It sounds like you are inclined to go another round, which is OK, if that's what you determine is best for you.

LuckyJim

[FallBack!Monster]

It sounds like you are inclined to go another round, which is OK, if that's what you determine is best for you.

LuckyJim

I'm not saying that's the best for me. But sometimes I still miss her.  We've been talking like before. She really is a sweet girl. But this BPD thing is killing us. She wants to take it slow.  I like her she's cute.  Just moody all the time now. I never stopped loving her, but I wasn't going to kiss her behind for her to respect my boundaries. Who knows. We're just spending time. I won't keep my hopes up. I heard that after the first break up, they change their minds very often.

[ForeverDad]

We're not medical and psych teams, we're peer support... .been there, done that.  We do what most of the professionals do, we put behaviors ahead of a diagnostic label which may never come.  Do many or a majority of her behavior patterns match the BPD criteria?  If so, then you're in the right place even if others report some differences in their experiences.

Unless she has changed (for the better) and you have changed (improved boundaries, communication skills and insight), then getting back together will just be getting back on the same old roller coaster again where you're spun around a few times and spit out.  Do you want that?

BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships.  Right now, after some time apart, her behaviors and responses to you might not be that extreme and you're drifting back from Mr Evil Personified to Mr Knight in Shining Armor.  But the closer she gets back to you in a close relationship, the more her distorted thinking will become the overwhelming issue yet again.

There are a variety of triggers, responses and behaviors in everybody including pwBPD.  Possibly she not of the high conflict sort?  Or maybe that just hasn't happened yet?  Some members here experienced on-again, off-again relationships.  Others report control attempts, demands and ultimatums.  Some have even faced false allegations and even arrest.  The spectrum is as varied as are the people.  But a common conclusion is that if the person doesn't start - and stick with - meaningful therapy long term then the future will repeat the past.

In my case, having a child ramped up the conflict immensely, a child wasn't a fix, it only made everything more complicated (custody war) and my marriage imploded faster.  Is she in serious long term therapy and making real progress?  If not the the old issues and cycles will resume.

[FallBack!Monster]

  Is she in serious long term therapy and making real progress?  If not the the old issues and cycles will resume.

Thank you. I've actually been thinking about that for about 2 days.  I have turned my phone off in case she text or calls me.  I have to think.  She might be in therapy but I'm not sure.  We have not spoken about that.  I think if she were it would be a shameful thing for her to just come out and say.  We do exchange good dialogue but that is a sensitive matter to admit something is seriously wrong. 

What I have been thinking is, am I looking at it like I did in the past? In the past I looked at it as... .she's weird and I know but I could handle this.  I won't fall for her.  And I really didn't.  I think it is more like another person posted earlier, without knowing we start to feed off of some of the drama. Like it keeps us on our toes.

Please don't misunderstand.  I am in no way shape or form condoning any of it.  I know all her weaknesses but I don't know her strengths.  Maybe it jump the gun and the fact that she validated my feelings almost made me lose my mind again.  I don't know yet.  I'm still thinking.  I'm not going to be in touch with her this week at all.  Let's see what happens. 

I'm going to spend time with other friends and see how that feels to me.  Maybe it will knock me back to reality.  Maybe I will fail again.  Who knows

[ForeverDad]

If you had a friend, or even met a stranger, who was facing this, what would you advise?

By looking at your problem through an objective viewpoint, looking in from the outside so to speak from an emotionally neutral distance, it helps to remove the emotional pull we experience when we feel stuck in the middle and helps us to reach more informed and more confident decisions.

[Waddams]

She's love bombing you right now.  I'm not saying there isn't genuine affection and love behind her actions, but it's classic love bombing and seduction.  She's doing nice things for you right now because she wants to elicit positive attention from you.  It's transactional.  She's not doing it to be giving.  She's doing it because she wants your attention.

I don't know you're whole story, maybe you've answered this in other places, but what has she done besides love bombing:

-Has she accept responsibility for her role in the relationship problems in the past?  If so, what is she doing to address it?  Is she in therapy?  When similar situations or triggers or emotions arise, how will things be different?  People don't just stop doing habitual things, and make no mistake, BPD type behaviors are ingrained, habitual responses.  You have to get help, and honestly be retrained to do something different, and it's hard work and takes a long time.

-What was your role?  Have you gotten therapy to figure it out so you can do things differently as well?  We all participate in the cycle as non's.  We have to learn how it works, learn the dynamics, and ourselves figure out and retrain ourselves as well.  Where are you in that process?

I have an xpwPDgf that at one point I was so hopelessly hooked on that I too "loved" her so much and couldn't let go when I really should have.  It really was more of an addiction than love.  Part of me even knew it at the time.  We had significant value differences, as well as she had major baggage and issues.  Her baggage had baggage, and she was honestly looking for someone to rescue her from it all.  The problem was it was all issues that she had to resolve in her own heart and mind, nobody else could do it for her, but she refused to start.  I just didn't want to admit it to myself. She wasn't evil or bad, but we really did have significant values differences, and she was a fundamentally broken person that really needs some intense therapy and mental help.  When I couldn't make her demons go away or fix it all for her, it all turned into my fault in her mind.  No amount of compromise worked.  She just demanded more and more, and became more and more controlling.  Any "help" just turned into more enabling of all the unhealthy things in her, and always came with higher and higher personal costs to me.  I'd have had to sacrifice my entire being to stay with her, and it still wouldn't have been enough.  The breakup happened literally when I had exhausted everything I had to give and had nothing left.  Once there wasn't anything else she could use me for and couldn't get anything else out of me, I was suddenly the most awful person on earth, painted black, and she left, and was very, very quickly with a new man, leeching off him instead.

If I'd had the internal strength to let things go when I should have, it would have saved me and S12 three years of drama and bullhockey.  I'd be in a much better position financially right now.  I'd probably own a home by now instead still being a renter.  I might have even gained full custody of my S12.  That addiction to this xGF really cost me. I was an utter fool to let things go the way I did.  

There was a moment when I should have ended it 3 years prior before the end came.  She would have painted me black then for it, but what I really did was give into an extremely entitled and selfish action of hers.  I should have let her paint me black, gone NC, and moved on.

BPD and similar disordered pwPD type people usually instead live whatever is most expedient to satisfy their feelings in the moment. I don't believe there is a more consistent value system in them beyond they're usually damaged people trying to avoid feeling bad in one way or another, they expect everyone around them to kowtow and tip toe around their triggers, and they want to remain the center of attention.  When that doesn't happen, they perceive it as an attack and they respond by punishing the perceived offender.

I'd urge you to back up and start asking yourself some tough questions - what are your core values?  Get in touch with them?  How can you live those values?  What boundaries do you need to keep in line with your values?  And can you have a relationship with this woman while living those values within your boundaries?  Will she respect them?  :)oes she share those values and will she live within those boundaries with you?  

[NotThatGuy]

Love is important, but it's not enough. 

And love shouldn't go unchallenged.  Many of us who have difficult families of origin are prone to falling in love with people who won't treat us very well.  Sometimes people can *only* fall in love with people who'll treat them badly, because the very traits they find most compelling are the ones that lead to abuse.  That changes, but it takes time and therapy-- usually a lot of both.  It's important to examine and own the things that draw you to her, both the good things, and the things that aren't so flattering to you.

People with BPD can be very loving, and I don't think it's entirely manipulative.  They're human beings, they want human connections, they're capable of genuine affection.  Even in the most severely affected pwBPD, there's more to them than the disease.  My wife is a genuinely compassionate, loving person when she's acting according to her highest values.  She's tremendously sensitive and she really does care about and for others.  She cares when she'll get nothing in return, and no one is watching her (and if she does it in part to maintain her own self-image as a compassionate person, I don't know how that's different from the rest of us.) 

The problems is that, when a person with BPD experiences a negative or threatening emotion, their reaction is every bit as strong.  If my wife starts to feel like I've betrayed or abandoned her, all that love can turn to hate, and the sensitivity becomes a weapon she can use against me.  Her hatred and rage passes, but it's just as genuine for that time as her love and compassion is at other times.  Inconsistency is the rule with BPD. 

So, your ex-gf is treating you amazingly well now, but she won't always.  She'll have bad days and, chances are, her bad days will be at least as bad as they've ever been.  If you keep tolerating bad behavior, it may get worse, especially as you become used to the milder forms of acting out.  When BPDs are angry, they often genuinely want to *hurt* others, to make them understand, and if their prior actions don't get the reaction they're looking for, they'll escalate.  But then, if you leave, and you've come back before, they'll escalate the seduction-- after all, you've gotten tolerant to the low-dose, so a higher dose is the next step. 

The more often the cycle repeats, the worse it gets, and the worse it hurts you both.  No matter how much love you have for one another, I don't believe there's any such thing as a One True Love.  If this relationship ends for good, there will be other opportunities for you both.  And there may come a point (if this isn't it) where one or both of you would be far better off accepting the loss, and remaining open to a relationship without so much damage. 

[FallBack!Monster]

Before cosidering going back with her ive been in communication with the ex before the BPD one. She also suffers with depression. Very mentally and verbally abusive, in a small way emotionally too. But far from a pwBPD. She was extremely boring which cld probably explain my attention to a pwBPD. Here is where im at with my decision. I went to talk to her. She wasn't where she said she was. She went on vacation with a "new friend"  been love bombing me while on vacation with someone else. Dont feel bad for me. Im not sad. She has answered all of my questions. I want to cancel this acct. Im done talking about BPD. Thank you all. But i want to move on quick. My old ex is a great person. Thanks to her im not alone. She stepped in when i needed a supported friend.  Thanks again.

[Notwendy]

I am glad you could come to some direction and closure with this. I understand that you don't want to talk about BPD, but when I first read your thread, I wanted to talk about you. What's love got to do with it? Everything, because that love includes self love and boundaries. We can love others, but when we let go of our own love for self, our boundaries, then we can betray ourselves.

Your boundaries and self love were evident when you weighed your decision- is this good for me? These are not easy decisions because few relationships are all bad or all good- but a combination of them. Yet, it is important for us to come to the best decision for ourselves.

Relationships also teach us about ourselves. Someone may be attracted to a person with BPD and decide it isn't for them, move on, and then have a relationship with someone who does not have a disorder. However, for some people it is a pattern of conflict. At that point, one can ask- what is my role in this- and consider their own tendencies- are they enablers, rescuers?

People can grow in or out of a relationship, but the time as a single person is an opportunity to focus on self outside of a relationship. I've heard that if someone enters a new relationship without processing what happened, the feelings, their part in it, in the previous one, they may end up with similar issues in the next. This could mean different things to different people. Some relationships can be gotten over quickly, and some not as quickly.

You've decided to move on - and quickly is good, but that path takes it's own course. You may have feelings one way or the other, fear, relief, sadness, happiness. Many of us aren't so good at self care, feeling our feelings, so I encourage you to do what you need to do to take care of yourself- as you wish. You've left one relationship but are taking the most important relationship you have with another human- YOU. Take care of you.

[bunny4523]

 No amount of compromise worked.  She just demanded more and more, and became more and more controlling.  Any "help" just turned into more enabling of all the unhealthy things in her, and always came with higher and higher personal costs to me.  I'd have had to sacrifice my entire being to stay with her, and it still wouldn't have been enough.  The breakup happened literally when I had exhausted everything I had to give and had nothing left.  

thats how i felt too

[ForeverDad]

A relatively normal relationship would have both giving and taking, not one giving and the other taking.  Add in conflict, denials, inconsistency, blaming, distorted perceptions, no reciprocity, and a whole host of other poor behaviors and it becomes clear that there's dysfunction.  Problem is, we tried too long, stayed too long, whatever, before we found out what we were dealing with.  Our good intentions and good traits were, whether consciously or not, used against us.

[FallBack!Monster]

 

Our good intentions and good traits were, whether consciously or not, used against us.

Basically, your normal behavior is seen as abnormal by the pwBPD. None of your good nature, good values etc works when dealing with a disorder person. They persive life in a co.pletely diferren order.  For an extre0 example:  most of us probably wouldn't hire an dangerous  ex con, drug addict, or drug dealer to babysit, well, they wld. As long as its beneficial to him or her. Then  get that person in legal troubles when they're done using them.  Acuse them of something or get him or her busted.  Most normal ppl would not think like that even if we hung around these types.

We're not weak for being normal. Just wanted to make that clear. Keep your good nature. Dump the pwBPD in your life. The world needs more good ppl.