It was the best sex I ever had

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have been NC with my Ex for more then a month now, in this period I had sex with few different partners to try and break the BPD spell and nothing came close to the feeling I experienced with me Ex, It feels so different, so ordinary...

It seems to me that one of the ways a BPD person plants their roots inside our souls is through sex and I can't really pinpoint what's so different about sex with them:

is it the intensity of it?

is it their perfect look?

is it the only way they can initiate intimacy that makes you feel that total connection being with them that we all miss when they are gone?

could it be that we are so shallow that all our misery comes down to that? 

[TheSinister]

I have been NC with my Ex for more then a month now, in this period I had sex with few different partners to try and break the BPD spell and nothing came close to the feeling I experienced with me Ex, It feels so different, so ordinary...

It seems to me that one of the ways a BPD person plants their roots inside our souls is through sex and I can't really pinpoint what's so different about sex with them:

is it the intensity of it?

is it their perfect look?

is it the only way they can initiate intimacy that makes you feel that total connection being with them that we all miss when they are gone?

could it be that we are so shallow that all our misery comes down to that? 

[hurting300]

Nah. It's the fact mine let me do ANYTHING I wanted. They have no boundaries.

[Ashwin]

Hello sinister   welcome to the forum

   As to ur questions I'm afraid that at least 95 percent of ur assumption is true I mean they donne the role of dainty darlings until they unleash the chimera within ... .it's probably some sort of primeval mechanism within us that makes us yearn for them no matter how much hurt we get in the process ... . from my experience they programme u in such a way that initially ur treated as a god (I.e) whatever u say and do is absolutely right they then cook up some sort of story portraying themselves as the little red riding hood running away from some fictitious big bad wolf and you on the other hand being the knight of honour and Valor will reflexively get sucked into her vortex and yeah thanks to herr new knight the poor little girl blossoms into snow white (what wait are we on the same time frame here)   " dude this is  a story and you don't get to ask questions " anyways moving on after some magic carpet ride and some Sidney Sheldon like passionate moments vola snaps out the chimera bearing it's fangs and spewing venom in turn you try to become that guy on the horse with wings damn! I forgot his name anywhoo the frame shifts to another scene where she is zapped back to her red riding hood self and you oh man youuu  unknown to everyone is really the true big bad wolf out to finish her ! Damn man how could you ... .

        Long story short bro its an illness that I guess not even most shrinks understand ... .try not to hold any ill feelings or anything at all at ur ex ... .at least you had a few flings after her lucky you. ... .

         Hang in there buddy there are wonderful people on board here who will help you ... .in the meantime spend most of ur lone time with ur friends ... .there are few people in here who take a lot of time off their busy schedules to help people like us out

I'll leave you a few pointers livednlearned, notwendy, fr4ndz n many more

Most of all don't worry man life is hectic and we don't need to make it worse than what it is already ... .I too miss my ex and if you ask me I am literally willing to sell my soul to get her back ... .but is it the best move ? Maybe rite at this moment that's what my damaged self wants but is it really the best option out there ever for me I don't know so that's why I jumped on board to find out ... .and in a way I have learned something like that my dear friend you will too all in good time  

[seenr]

It was but for me it was the connection rather than the physical side of it. I never felt so comfortable with anyone. Also, defying the BPD traits, she was the same, we just seemed to click. She told me that despite a number of partners, nobody made her feel as comfortable as I had done. There was a definite connection as she struggled for that while we were apart & cried, telling me about awful experiences with men she didn't fancy or care for, just in a desire for someone to love her.

But I can tell you one thing, I'd trade all of the good sex for someone who sex is not so good with, but who is kind, balanced, does not rage or scream into my face and who is a genuine friend. I've learned after many years that looks and sex are great but ultimately do not lead to long term happiness. If anything they were a distraction, a barrier.

I have rejected three maybe four fantastic people because they were not my ex. One, who I met in 2011, the morning after sleeping with her for the first time and having average sex, she made me feel good about myself when I joined her for breakfast. She was kind, showed me she liked me and told me that my company meant something to her. We laughed, joked, we had a good time and I am ashamed to say I ran because I was trying to match the attraction I had to my exBPDgf.

My BPD ex or highly sexual partners of the past never made me feel like that.

So, I've changed & what I'm looking for going forward is different.

[Leonis]

Nah. It's the fact mine let me do ANYTHING I wanted. They have no boundaries.

Mine refused to do things like anal, etc. To be frank, I'm not comfortable with that stuff either.

I get the no boundary part. She was perfectly okay having unprotected sex with me because it felt better for her.

[heartandwhole]

Hi The Sinister,

I think there can be an intensity that really hooks us like a drug. The problem is that intensity≠intimacy, which I think most of us are looking for. If off-the-charts excitement, extreme emotions and lack of boundaries is one's idea of intimacy and love, in my opinion, that relationship will ultimately be unsustainable (and granted, some people may not want sustainability).

I'd be really turned off by someone without any boundaries, but that's me. A pwBPD has an unstable sense of self and will often take on the partner's desires and preferences in order to secure their love and attention. For that reason, I'd be careful of assuming that the willingness of our partner to do just about "anything we want" in bed is a representation of how capable they are of being intimate and loving us in a healthy way. And vice versa for us, if we sacrifice our values while engaging sexually.

I would even go so far as to say that that "total connection" that you feel while having sex with pwBPD is so wonderful because it is more a connection with yourself, rather than with the other person, but again, that's based on my experience.

Here is an interesting article on love addiction, with a list of "Signs of Love Addiction" at the bottom: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a114.htm

Do you recognize any of those signs in yourself and/or your partner, The Sinister? I definitely felt an "otherworldly" connection with pwBPD for awhile, because the sexual and erotic intensity between us was really strong, but now I see things differently.

heartandwhole

[rfriesen]

I'm going to say all of the above. It wasn't purely the physical connection and lack of boundaries for me. It was also that we spent the entire day making out (we worked together, often enough even had sex at work) and longing to be together and feeling like we were madly in love. We laughed together like I've never laughed with anyone and just felt deeply connected. That carried over to our sex life.

If I'm being honest with myself, though, it was also that she wanted to hear every single one of my fantasies, no matter how depraved, and then wanted to satisfy them. I don't mean she just "let me" do what I wanted. She seemed to crave fulfilling every one of my desires as if nothing could give her so much pleasure. We bought so many toys, we tied her up, we had sex for hours each time, she demanded anal, couldn't orgasm without at least a toy in there, ... .And I think what topped it all off is that I never felt I was taking advantage, I didn't look down on her at all, yes I dominated her, but I was also sensual and loving and we could kiss passionately and stare into each other's eyes even as we were having the nastiest sex imaginable.

Actually, it was only after it all came crashing down and I began to read about BPD that I realised our sex life had an unhealthy side, that we had to keep escalating, and that we were really just living out our porn fantasies. Since things ended with my ex, I've stopped watching porn (or almost -- sometimes I backslide) and although I certainly have days when I still crave that sex life with my ex very very badly, I don't think I'd want that in another relationship. It just took over every other aspect of our relationship. We talked nothing but sex at the end, I couldn't focus on anything else when I tried to work, and now that it's associated with BPD in my mind, I don't think I could quite enjoy it so un-self-consciously again.

In the end, I realised I would describe sex in the kinds of terms you hear recovering heroin addicts describe their highs. It was the most intense pleasure I've ever experienced. But we had to keep increasing the amount/intensity to chase the same highs. And over time, thinking about it took over all my time. There are other things I would like to do with my life and build over time, to be honest.

[rfriesen]

Just to add a final note - and I think this has a lot to do with no longer watching porn - if I ever do settle down with one person, I would definitely prize intimacy over intensity in our sex life, even knowing how intensely pleasurable things were with my ex.

[lunchbox123]

My exBPD often joked why couldn't our relationship be more like our sex. No matter how we were feeling it was always amazing and restored our connection, even if only temporary.

[woundedPhoenix]

Sex is control.

My exBPD is at this day no mystery anymore on this end. Seeing how she hunted for a replacement by throwing only her sexuality out there and seeing how she adapted her whole look and preferences, even scoring totally different on personalitests once she found a good target.

Sex is the primary weapon they use to create a bond and control it. Probably thats because most borderlines are very attractive and due to that they have fallen prey to sexual abuse more often, and also learned that this is the primary way to control the opposite sex and keep them attached. It's their way to put an intense relation on the fast track, cause slowly building intimacy and trust is just not their game.

My ex was submissive, to the point she deeply desired to have sex that would border on the abusive and utter humiliation. And... .cause i knew her past was filled with that kind of abuse and i am not even able to mimic an abusive person, i didn't want to go that far with her, instead tried to make her see that sex could also be intimate and healthy once in a while.

I think towards the end i subconsciously felt that the sex was actually not that good, it was intense allright and always there was this tendency to find the extremes. But it lacked something... .it lacked closeness, it felt hollow. After the deed i remember that i once wanted to grab and hold her in an intimate pose, and i litterally felt that nothing was there to be intimate with.

So... .most of it was an act. i now better understand why sometimes the idealisation is described as being all 'smoke and mirrors'. The sex and mirroring is their way to attach you in the most failsafe way, problem is that WHAT you are atached to is a reflection of you, not of them. And they can flip who they choose to reflect in a split second.

[rfriesen]

woundedPhoenix,

Yeah, my experience with my ex was similar, though she wasn't into humiliation and abuse. But she did want me to dominate her - tie her up and use her body. I always felt it was also sensual and loving, though. I mean, I certainly never insulted her or acted like I was using her just for my pleasure. Always a lot of kissing, always a lot of wanting her to feel intense pleasure as well. In hindsight, I know she would probably would have adapted and convinced herself to like it even if I had been a bit abusive. And, honestly, it makes me really sad to think of now, because I have a feeling that's the kind of thing she's likely to find as she goes out and looks for more intense sexual experiences. I feel we were just on that edge of loving/sensual combined with primal/nasty sex ... .and it was so addictive. So incredibly addictive.

But, maybe a bit like you describe, by the end it was starting to feel like we were just trying to push the limits and it was losing something of that playful, loving feel we had in the beginning. Maybe just our relationship dynamics finally seeping into our sex life, whereas we had had sex as our sanctuary for so long.

And, like you say, it's about control. I'm not sure how consciously aware of this my ex was or is. She obviously senses that she can get guys' attention with her sexuality. And she loves being the centre of sexual attention - major source of contention during our relationship, especially given how jealous and possessive she was of me. But then she so desperately wants love and not to be abandoned ... .when she finds a guy just using her for sex, she puts on this hard-mask exterior and seems - to me at least - just to dig herself in deeper into a world of using sex to attract and hold, then being broken-hearted and putting up more walls when she finds guys just interested in sex. She doesn't seem able to break out of this dynamic.

[TheSinister]

Thanks a lot guys for all your time and support, I truly believe that this forum saves few detached people around the world who like me thought they are the only ones who lost their mind, This forum helps me keep things in perspective, have a great weekend!  

[Stripey77]

Well... .I have to counter a little bit against what some of you are saying here, and perhaps I'm the first woman to respond this thread, not quite sure, but that could put a slightly different slant on it.

The physical side of my relationship with my ex is probably by far and away the best of my life, and not because I haven't had great times with previous partners. It's because it was so perfectly in tune, with similar levels of libido, and with both of us equally interested in giving pleasure to the other. The chemistry between us was electric from the very first kiss, truly I have never had anything like it in my life and have remarked on other threads that it truly was the proverbial 'fireworks'.

Now, this could of course be absolutely NOTHING to do with his suspected BPD traits at all. As I say, it was amazing from the very start.  The physical attraction was, and is, huge. Once the bond was developed  - and the intellectual connection to boot was the best I have had in my life, ever, with anyone (and I believe this might cut both ways) - then you can imagine that that made for some pretty powerful sex/lovemaking.  It could actually very well just have been that we each met someone we had pure animal chemistry with. It could be as simple as that. I fell in love with him because all of the other things, not for the sex. I wanted to have sex with him (and still do) because of how I felt for him, quite aside from the fact that I fancied him so much my legs buckled when he kissed me.

Not at any point did he ask me to do anything outrageous, cross any boundaries, make me feel used or controlled, or that it was all about the sex. Far from it, my ex is incredibly tactile and affectionate, and was far more focussed on us sleeping together (as in, sleeping) because he would hold me tight all night. In fact, as if I was going somewhere. I had to loosen his grip on me, it was as if he was worried I'd leave him in the night. I last spent the night with him a few weeks ago during (another) recycle and nothing had changed. He is a considerate and loving lover. I never felt as if it were a power trip or a way to hook me, just two people who were very attracted to one another having some really fantastic sex. Better still it was within the framework of (at the time) a loving relationship. Which, perhaps even more so for a woman because we are hardwired to crave security, just made it even hotter.

I would have done anything for him (within limits) if it had made him happy sexually, and I'm sure he would have for me, although to be honest, we had a very 'straight up' love life. He never put any requests on me that made me uncomfortable.  Reading some of the posts here, it reads to me as if some of you took advantage of your partners' lack of boundaries to have free reign with some of more 'rough' fantasies/desires.  It's all fine between consenting adults but I can't help feeling a bit sad on behalf of some of these (mainly) women. I have said this so many times but BPD are still human beings, very hurt ones at that. As much as there are responses talking about 'being controlled' here, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, these people were trying to do all they could to retain your interest, and rightly or wrongly, thought they had to put themselves out there on a slab to do so. Maybe this is how they tried to mitigate the fear or being abandoned, rather than trying to 'hook' you. They didn't put us under a spell, you know, we are adults with free will.  You all played a part, so if you felt controlled by the sex, that's because you kept allowing yourself to be.

[rfriesen]

It could actually very well just have been that we each met someone we had pure animal chemistry with. It could be as simple as that. I fell in love with him because all of the other things, not for the sex. I wanted to have sex with him (and still do) because of how I felt for him, quite aside from the fact that I fancied him so much my legs buckled when he kissed me.

[... .]

As much as there are responses talking about 'being controlled' here, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, these people were trying to do all they could to retain your interest, and rightly or wrongly, thought they had to put themselves out there on a slab to do so. Maybe this is how they tried to mitigate the fear or being abandoned, rather than trying to 'hook' you. They didn't put us under a spell, you know, we are adults with free will.  You all played a part, so if you felt controlled by the sex, that's because you kept allowing yourself to be.

Thank you for offering a slightly different perspective here! I wanted to respond to the two points I highlighted in particular. As I put it in my previous comments in this thread, for me the sex with my ex was the most sensual and loving sex I've ever had in my life, in addition to being the most "extreme" or "nasty" or however you want to put that. I never pushed my ex to do anything. We just absolutely clicked, and we always marvelled at our chemistry. I do think the BPD aspects of our relationship eventually came to influence our sex life too, though, in the sense that when my ex would rage at me, then collapse in tears and sob how desperately she loved me, she also became incredibly aroused, turned on, and she always initiated sex in those situations. And because of the rollercoaster of emotions we were on, it was even more intensely passionate. Those were the times when we kept things simplest -- no toys, no tying up, just our bodies glued and tangled together, and the sex feeling like the most intense connection two human beings could ever experience.

And looking back on these experiences, yes, my ex did "use" (not consciously, but instinctively, I believe) sex to keep me close, to reconnect with me, to keep me from leaving. BUT, to the second point I've highlighted, my ex also "used" (again, instinctively, not consciously) sex to gain a hold over men's attention. She was aware of this and once or twice admitted she thought it was a problem. These were times when she acted really inappropriately with specific men - her best friend's husband, her brother-in-law, her friend's step-dad. In each of those cases I pointed out to her how uncomfortable she was making people she really cared about. I couldn't believe she didn't see how hurt her best friend was - but, after I talked to my ex, she spoke with her best friend who acknowledged that it always hurt her a lot to see my ex and the best friend's husband engaging in really graphic sex talk. No kidding.

Yes, of course, we're humans with self-control and free will and none of these men were forced to direct their sexual interest at my ex. At the same time, my ex was fully aware of the interest she was able to attract from other men, she was extremely possessive and jealous when she sensed the slightest whiff of another woman flirting with me, she played on sexual jealousies and admitted that she liked to cross the line with other men to provoke me, she admitted she sometimes felt out of control and liked me to pull her aside and "keep her in line" (her words), and she just generally focused on sex to an unusual degree.

So, putting all that together, I do think it's fair to say that my ex uses sex for control in her relationships with men. Though I acknowledge, of course, that we're responsible for all our actions and we can't be controlled like mindless robots. For me, it's a question of what my ex's intent is. And it often seems to be control, even though - as I say - it's more instinctive than a conscious strategy.

[Meili]

A pwBPD has an unstable sense of self and will often take on the partner's desires and preferences in order to secure their love and attention. For that reason, I'd be careful of assuming that the willingness of our partner to do just about "anything we want" in bed is a representation of how capable they are of being intimate and loving us in a healthy way. And vice versa for us, if we sacrifice our values while engaging sexually.

I can tell you with some level of certainty that this was true for my x. The night that I ended the r/s she came over. She kept trying to initiate sex. I kept saying no. She kept trying harder. I finally gave in.

In the middle of it she said that she's been wanting to try some of the things that I'd said, in the past, that I wanted. I asked if she wanted to do them then, she said no.

In subsequent discussions with her, I have learned that all of that was manipulation and a ploy. She tried using sex to hook me back in. It didn't work. She was humiliated by the experience. She was fighting so hard to maintain the attachment that she was willing to humiliate herself to do so.

What's interesting to me is that about six months prior to the break-up, I told her that I thought that she was using sex as manipulation and a ploy to get/keep me hooked. The pattern was clear, I'd pull back, she'd be hypersexual. When I was close to her, she was distant physically. Of course, she, to this day, denies that was the case even though she admits that our last encounter was exactly that.

For a long time, I truly believed that this was true:

It could actually very well just have been that we each met someone we had pure animal chemistry with. It could be as simple as that.

And, this is exactly what I believe now:

As much as there are responses talking about 'being controlled' here, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, these people were trying to do all they could to retain your interest, and rightly or wrongly, thought they had to put themselves out there on a slab to do so. Maybe this is how they tried to mitigate the fear or being abandoned, rather than trying to 'hook' you. They didn't put us under a spell, you know, we are adults with free will.  You all played a part, so if you felt controlled by the sex, that's because you kept allowing yourself to be.

[rfriesen]

The pattern was clear, I'd pull back, she'd be hypersexual. When I was close to her, she was distant physically. Of course, she, to this day, denies that was the case even though she admits that our last encounter was exactly that.

This seems to have been the pattern my ex had with me too, except that uncertainty and distance were present from the start of our relationship (she was engaged when we started, then broke things off and wanted me to commit, but I could never quite give her the assurance she wanted, because I was always terrified of the chaos she seemed to sow everywhere). But when she talked about her past relationships with me (which she did right at the start of ours, when we still had our guard completely down), she described intense initial connections, wanting to be with her boyfriend 24/7 for the first several months, then completely losing interest once they moved in together. (She always pushed to move in together quickly -- she says she's always hated living alone and can't bear to do it for long.)

She seems generally aware of the pain this causes her -- first making someone her whole world, then finding that she's lost interest once they've fully reciprocated. But can't quite bring herself to accept that she needs to work on herself to change it. Once we had truly and finally recognised that we were done, she admitted to me that she just wants to feel that kind of early relationship high again. She seems resigned to the pain that follows, as though she has no faith that she could ever find another kind of happiness.

What I find frustrating is that her only regret seems to be that I was the one who ended it. She told me, "all the other times this has happened [i.e. a break-up with someone who had been her whole world for some time], I was checked out by the time it happened and I was the one to move on." I went through so much heartache with her, trying to ease out of the relationship ... .only to find that while I was still trying very hard to work with her to bring things to a bearable ending, she had been hooking up with lots of other guys, looking for a suitable replacement, so she could then just "check out" (as she put it). It still makes me mad to think that she has ZERO interest in making an effort to change, although she tore my psyche apart as I tried to change myself for the better when she pointed out ways I was hurting her. She has all but admitted she will keep creating intense connections, then bailing when the guy is fully hers.

Alright, I'm a bit off topic here. Just a bit of a rant because I find it so callous, after all the pain we went through, that my ex can recognise what she does, the heartache she creates, and basically shrug her shoulders and say, "well, it's the only pleasure I know how to find, so if it wrecks other people, so be it ... "

[Wize]

Sex with my stbx BPD wife was plentiful and zesty but, as another poster said, hollow.  Her eyes would sort of go dead and I could tell that sex was not an act of intimacy for her rather an act of necessity.  It was nothing more than a tactic used to attach me to her.  As much as I want to believe that our sex was an act of love, like every other facet of her life, that simply wasn't the case.  

[seenr]

This is a fair point but the one & only time my ex wanted me to do something I didn’t like sexually, I wasn’t able to. There was another night in a row, where I saw the exact same look. There was a row, she was drunk, very aggressive and kept running into me. She wanted me to hit her. I had to hold her on the bed gently, I was crying and saying ‘Please stop’. Both times, I saw her eyes freeze as though she was powerless, almost like a child who was filled with fear. For me, it was her mind going back to a time when she became damaged and I am sorry, I could not take advantage of that.

There was one occasion when I wanted the relationship to end and she didn’t and we spent a whole weekend making love. At the end, she wanted to know that we would stay together and I asked her for a week to think about things. She was deeply hurt & assumed that I wanted to sleep with someone else. I didn’t, but the FOG was literally melting my brain. What I wanted was a week on my own in my house to plot out how to make the relationship a success from my side. I didn’t communicate this well. I know a lot more now than I did then and realise my actions triggered her fears.

I’ve found this thread tough to read as the experiences I shared with this woman were magnificent and it wasn’t just about sex. I genuinely loved every bit of her, even the devil that appeared, but I wasn’t able to put up with that devil. I don’t know if anyone could.

It's all fine between consenting adults but I can't help feeling a bit sad on behalf of some of these (mainly) women. I have said this so many times but BPD are still human beings, very hurt ones at that. As much as there are responses talking about 'being controlled' here, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, these people were trying to do all they could to retain your interest, and rightly or wrongly, thought they had to put themselves out there on a slab to do so. Maybe this is how they tried to mitigate the fear or being abandoned, rather than trying to 'hook' you. They didn't put us under a spell, you know, we are adults with free will.  You all played a part, so if you felt controlled by the sex, that's because you kept allowing yourself to be.

[gotbushels]

Wow. Interesting sharing. It appears many of our partners could be considered sexual beggars, excessively sexual, or using sex as a holding tool. There seems to be a pattern here... .


1.

The night that I ended the r/s she came over. She kept trying to initiate sex. I kept saying no. She kept trying harder. I finally gave in.

What's interesting to me is that about six months prior to the break-up, I told her that I thought that she was using sex as manipulation and a ploy to get/keep me hooked. The pattern was clear, I'd pull back, she'd be hypersexual. When I was close to her, she was distant physically. Of course, she, to this day, denies that was the case even though she admits that our last encounter was exactly that.

Interesting observation Meili.

2.

There was one occasion when I wanted the relationship to end and she didn’t and we spent a whole weekend making love. At the end, she wanted to know that we would stay together and I asked her for a week to think about things. She was deeply hurt & assumed that I wanted to sleep with someone else.

3.

Like some sort of bargaining chip, strange things start to happen when it's used in this manner.

to the point she deeply desired to have sex that would border on the abusive and utter humiliation.

I think towards the end i subconsciously felt that the sex was actually not that good, it was intense allright and always there was this tendency to find the extremes. But it lacked something... .it lacked closeness, it felt hollow. After the deed i remember that i once wanted to grab and hold her in an intimate pose, and i litterally felt that nothing was there to be intimate with.

Like some sort of bargaining treat, cast on the floor like a dog owner would a biscuit. Or spilling a whole bag. Unfortunately that implies--we're the dog?



Based on your observations--perhaps it could be seen as a throwaway, ephemeral, and "casual" behaviour that is used to grab, hold, or save the relationship? Stripey77's been quoted three times with no highlights here.

You all played a part, so if you felt controlled by the sex, that's because you kept allowing yourself to be.

A great point Stripey77. I would encourage us all to visit the excellent question about our deeper needs, ":)oes part of me enjoy this?"*




*Taking Inventory for members that have exited BPD relationships.

[Fr4nz]

I have been NC with my Ex for more then a month now, in this period I had sex with few different partners to try and break the BPD spell and nothing came close to the feeling I experienced with me Ex, It feels so different, so ordinary...

It seems to me that one of the ways a BPD person plants their roots inside our souls is through sex and I can't really pinpoint what's so different about sex with them:

is it the intensity of it?

is it their perfect look?

is it the only way they can initiate intimacy that makes you feel that total connection being with them that we all miss when they are gone?

I think that sex with BPDs is so mind-boggling (at least for us males... .perhaps the girls here have a slightly different perception) because (1) it has an amazing intensity -- completely out of the ordinary, (2) they basically do everything to please us (at least in the beginning) and (3) the whole relationship with a BPD is, simply, out of the ordinary -- love/hate, push/pull, intense experiences, etc.

In the end, I think it's safe to assume that BPDs use (unknowingly) sex (also) as an attachment tool, hence the whole thing becomes very psychological; I agree that, at least just after the break-up, it is very difficult to detach from this incredible "intensity".

Nah. It's the fact mine let me do ANYTHING I wanted. They have no boundaries.

Mine refused to do things like anal, etc. To be frank, I'm not comfortable with that stuff either.

I get the no boundary part. She was perfectly okay having unprotected sex with me because it felt better for her.

I can relate with the unprotected sex; problem is, she does that with casual/one-time/affair partners as well... .very unsafe. Luckily, I didn't get any STD.

[Lifewriter16]

This is the saddest thread I have read in a long time and quite frankly, I feel quite angry at some of the content here. I pity those women who were so desperate for love, so unbelieving that they deserved love, so ill and so scared that their men would abandon them that they would do absolutely anything, including flinging themselves at their men and compromising their self-respect. I suspect many of these women had been sexually abused as children and this willingness to do anything, no matter how humiliating, and even beg for it, was a re-traumatisation for them. I suspect that underneath it all, they could well have come to hate their men because of what they felt they had to do to keep them. I think this is why women with BPD cry rape, because it appears consensual but it is anything but - to those women it feels like something they have to do and as such it is coercion, it is rape.

:'(  :'(  :'(

Lifewriter

[Fr4nz]

Rape is not consensual, hence let us NOT use the wrong terms Lifewriter, please.

Also, as far as I understand, no one here subjected their ex BPD partners to cruel sexual activities.

[woundedPhoenix]

This is the saddest thread I have read in a long time and quite frankly, I feel quite angry at some of the content here. I pity those women who were so desperate for love, so unbelieving that they deserved love, so ill and so scared that their men would abandon them that they would do absolutely anything, including flinging themselves at their men and compromising their self-respect. I suspect many of these women had been sexually abused as children and this willingness to do anything, no matter how humiliating, and even beg for it, was a re-traumatisation for them. I suspect that underneath it all, they could well have come to hate their men because of what they felt they had to do to keep them. I think this is why women with BPD cry rape, because it appears consensual but it is anything but - to those women it feels like something they have to do and as such it is coercion, it is rape.

:'(  :'(  :'(

Lifewriter

Yeah, that's why i couldn't do what she seemingly asked. I din't want to repeat her past all over again and proove her point.

[rfriesen]

I think this is why women with BPD cry rape, because it appears consensual but it is anything but - to those women it feels like something they have to do and as such it is coercion, it is rape.

I understand and, to a point, agree with the sentiment expressed here. But it is also a dangerous one. Speaking for my own experience only, my ex was engaged when she started with me, and yes she started with me. She flirted very obviously, she took the sexual initiative, she was always asking what my fantasies were, she suggested we start buying sex toys, she said it was always a fantasy of hers to be tied up, etc etc. She created a lot of chaos in my life, in her friends' lives, and even at work, because of her sometimes inappropriate sexual behaviour. In hindsight, yes, I believe she's dealing with a lot of emotional wounds, and craves sexual attention and intense sexual experiences in part to numb or overcome or block out some of those difficult emotions she deals with, especially her fear of abandonment. But you could just as easily say that many of us men have been fed a stereotype of the "real man" being one who has to go out and conquer as many women as possible, have been fed a steady diet of porn and convinced of the need to show great sexual prowess to validate ourselves, etc.

I think sexual violence against women is an extremely serious issue and I'm not trying to say the situation is symmetric for men and women. But we also should be careful before casting women always as helpless victims. My ex had pretty good insight into what she was doing, she understood full well that she had broken many previous boyfriends' hearts by cheating on them, and she clearly did get great sexual pleasure from her sex life, even if it ultimately fed unhealthy emotional issues. She loved being the centre of sexual attention and, again, she was aware of that and said explicitly she didn't want to change that. I never set out to manipulate my ex in any way in our sex life, and my impression is that most of the guys she's been with were in the same boat - they loved the sexual energy she gave off, but weren't thinking that they were taking advantage of her. I think it would do a tremendous injustice to victims of rape, those who genuinely did not consent to sexual activity that was forced on them, to cast this kind of relationship as rape. I can't speak for my ex, obviously, but my guess is she would also be deeply offended if someone were to describe her sex life in terms of rape. I might not think it's healthy for her in the long run, but she does like to identify herself as a very sexual, and very sexually adventurous, woman.

[HurtinNW]

I'm a female. My ex had many BPD/NPD traits.

Our sexual connection felt very profound in the beginning. It was quite frankly the best sex I've ever had. It felt sacramental, connected, dirty, loving, and was very fulfilling for both of us. I was willing to overlook a lot of horrible behavior because of what seemed like a connection.

All of us here were willing partners in our relationship dysfunction. None of us are victims—our partners didn't force this on us. As Stripey says, people with BPD are still people. If they have low self-esteem and are using sex because they don't feel they deserve love and attention otherwise, how sad is that? What is important is examining our roles.

Exploitation can happen both ways. It can happen when the person with BPD is using their faulty mechanisms to deal with life, including sex. It can also happen when their partners  are happy to enjoy those aspects of the disorder without radically accepting other parts of the person.

I hope to come to a place where I have compassion and fundamental human respect for my ex. I know he is a messed up person who is in a great deal of distress inside. I wouldn't wish his life on my worst enemy. Well, when I am angry at him I might   But that's not my life goal. I know that anyone who puts their worth in their sexuality alone will eventually end up in a very sad and lonely place. Bodies age, looks go, and our old age is often defined by what our hearts and minds have created.

Which brings up the question: Having gone through these intense sexual relationships, how to do we create futures where we attract and create healthy relationships with a fulfilling sexual life? What will that look like for us? I know for me I definitely want a partner where I can experience the same erotic freedom. But I am thinking it might not have the same initial intensity, and that is okay.

[rfriesen]

I hope to come to a place where I have compassion and fundamental human respect for my ex. I know he is a messed up person who is in a great deal of distress inside. I wouldn't wish his life on my worst enemy. Well, when I am angry at him I might   But that's not my life goal. I know that anyone who puts their worth in their sexuality alone will eventually end up in a very sad and lonely place. Bodies age, looks go, and our old age is often defined by what our hearts and minds have created.

Which brings up the question: Having gone through these intense sexual relationships, how to do we create futures where we attract and create healthy relationships with a fulfilling sexual life? What will that look like for us? I know for me I definitely want a partner where I can experience the same erotic freedom. But I am thinking it might not have the same initial intensity, and that is okay.

Very insightful post. It hurts me to recall the one time when my ex seemed to really open up to me about the way she uses sex. She talked about having low self-esteem about her intelligence, athleticism, and looks ... .all of which is crazy because she was the wittiest, sharpest person I've ever known, was incredibly athletic, and was drop-dead gorgeous. But this one day, we had worn ourselves raw with the pain of our relationship, and I truly believe she was being honest and vulnerable in that moment. She said the one thing that always made her feel better is she knew she could always find another guy, that she could always get guys' attention by making the same dirty jokes as them, or talking even dirtier than them, and getting them excited about her sexually. She said she had often heard the expression/question: "Who would we find beautiful in a world where everyone is blind?" And she told me she hated that question, because she felt she wouldn't be able to draw anyone to her. To this day, I believe she was being sincere - that was maybe her most sincere and open moment with me. We were so exhausted that day from all the pain, all the talk of breaking up, and I told her many times afterward that that day was among my most precious memories, because it gave me the feeling of her really letting me in a little. Sadly, it didn't last. But, like you say, HurtinNW, bodies age, looks fade ... .and it breaks my heart thinking of how my ex is dreading that and how she feels this compulsion to consume herself in the moment now, before age sets in.

I'm still sorting through what I want from future relationships, sexually speaking. But I'm really starting to come around to the idea that I'm not looking for that same erotic freedom at all. It was wonderful and I'm so happy I experienced it to its fullest. But what I'm starting to think about more and more - and maybe this is a combination of my age (late 30s) and the heartache after this last relationship - is that I don't care so much for erotic freedom and intense sexual pleasure as for real intimacy and vulnerability. That would take a real change in my thinking about sex and what I crave in sexual relationships ... .but what has this pain and experience been for, if not for trying a different way forward in relationships? With my ex, the sexual connection was so strong, the erotic aspect of our relationship so constantly present, that it went a long way to defining us as a couple. And that was wonderful in its way. But it can be hard to develop in other ways when the sexual connection is so intense.

[Larmoyant]

Lifewriter[/quote]

This is the saddest thread I have read in a long time and quite frankly, I feel quite angry at some of the content here. I pity those women who were so desperate for love, so unbelieving that they deserved love, so ill and so scared that their men would abandon them that they would do absolutely anything, including flinging themselves at their men and compromising their self-respect. I suspect many of these women had been sexually abused as children and this willingness to do anything, no matter how humiliating, and even beg for it, was a re-traumatisation for them. I suspect that underneath it all, they could well have come to hate their men because of what they felt they had to do to keep them. I think this is why women with BPD cry rape, because it appears consensual but it is anything but - to those women it feels like something they have to do and as such it is coercion, it is rape.

:'(  :'(  :'(

Lifewriter

I found some of what has been written very sad too. I agreed to meet up with my ex four times after I ended it. He wanted to talk, but tried to coerce me into sex each time. Looking back I feel very, very sad for him as I can see that this was one way he was trying to keep our attachment. I didn’t have sex with him because I knew it would make me vulnerable to recycling. I was hurting and so was he. Some of the posts here make me feel very, very sad for the person suffering from BPD.

[rfriesen]

In fact, here's how I know I was too caught up in the sexual intensity while I was with my ex. At the time, I thought sex was our salvation and the one sure way we could always reconnect. But, looking back, I would honestly trade each of our sexual adventures for another moment of my ex being open, honest, and vulnerable with me. The sex was out of this world, but somehow I don't feel that that pleasure carries over. It just leaves me empty now that it's gone and I can't have it anymore. But the memories of my ex opening up - even just a little - they might be bittersweet, but they're still precious to me, and they mean more to me now than the memories of our torrid sexcapades.

[StayStrongNow]

I can do relate. My ex was the easiest and fastest lay I ever had when I first me her. I am not even divorced yet and she's got another guy hooked. I don't need to talk about "splitting" or "black and white", but I was white and now black.

I was dubbed the night watchman because I came to the hospital emergency room after she slit her wrist, she did that the night before when I said I was done. Looking back it was the "knight in shinning armor" syndrome I fell into and rewarded with gift of her great sex. Willing to do anything at first then of course she is off cheating. My relationship was good for about 8 years then a nightmare for 3.

I guess those with BPD really have a sex drive she was an avid masterbater too.

Maybe it's time to find true love, you can't really with a BPDer, they are just duping you for strictly personal gain.

[puck]

Sex is control.

The sex and mirroring is their way to attach you in the most failsafe way, problem is that WHAT you are atached to is a reflection of you, not of them. And they can flip who they choose to reflect in a split second.

This exactly.

[HurtinNW]

I'm still sorting through what I want from future relationships, sexually speaking. But I'm really starting to come around to the idea that I'm not looking for that same erotic freedom at all. It was wonderful and I'm so happy I experienced it to its fullest. But what I'm starting to think about more and more - and maybe this is a combination of my age (late 30s) and the heartache after this last relationship - is that I don't care so much for erotic freedom and intense sexual pleasure as for real intimacy and vulnerability. That would take a real change in my thinking about sex and what I crave in sexual relationships ... .but what has this pain and experience been for, if not for trying a different way forward in relationships? With my ex, the sexual connection was so strong, the erotic aspect of our relationship so constantly present, that it went a long way to defining us as a couple. And that was wonderful in its way. But it can be hard to develop in other ways when the sexual connection is so intense.

That's a really good point. Sex became such a focal point of my relationship, both good and bad (by the end it was really bad). I don't want a relationship where sex is the conduit of all connection. I think for me, at least, sex came to replace the intimacy I wanted in other areas of the relationship, and I wasn't getting it. Instead I felt betrayed. I would rather have a less sexually charged relationship with trust, love and commitment.

I know my ex really enjoyed sex with me, and I know it had meaning for him too. He wasn't faking it. It was real for both of us, and so very sad that was the only place we could connect after a time. I will always remembers the glimpses into him I saw at times making love, the way that tender hidden part of him was, briefly, revealed.

In the future I want a relationship where I can trust my partner, completely and fully. I want to be able to talk about sex openly, without fear, as well as talk about any other aspect of our lives. I want to build a foundation that includes all aspects of love, not just sex. I also want to work on that part of myself, because I played a role with allowing/having sex become so important in the relationship it overshadowed serious concerns.

[Conundrum]

This discussion begs the question: When a non knows or becomes aware that his pwBPD was sexually abused as a child; does he or she possess a higher duty towards their disordered partner--compared to relationships without that complex aspect?

From my perspective, caretaking and ethical leadership are intertwined. That doesn't necessarily have to diminish the hotness or fun, but it is an integral component of a functionally  mature relationship (IMO).

[labowski]

Yes it was good and yes, sooner or later anything i wanted or required sexually became the norm.

In my opinion, I have had better (and much worse) sex throughout my life. Sex was the 5th or 6th thing on the list I loved about her under: kindness (idealization), homemaking, consideration, etc... .

but, the sex felt natural. Like I was home. Safe. Loved. It was beautiful because of that. It was the best because I thought I was going to spend my life with her.

but again, the sex, and the feel (gr*p) and her as a partner were a little pretentious and not great. I laugh that pwBPD use sex as a weapon of control because she wasn't half as sensual or seductive as she thought. I thought I was in love not in lust.

It was neither.

[atomic popsicles]

This thread is hitting me hard.

I met my stbx after a 20 year relationship (13 years married). My first husband thought I was bad in bed. In some ways I was a horrible wife- I fell asleep having sex, had to use euphamisms... .yuck. Just yuck. We were definitely bad together in bed.

Then I met stbx. Oh My God. Up until the day it all ended, three weeks ago, the sex was amazing for 6 years. He made me feel beautiful, sensual, and I became good in bed too... .bcz of our connection. His BPD was really masked until he started having mental illness, and it was like the BPD mask came off. In the last several months, sex became so much more important to me than him because it was the way we were still consistently connecting. I truly enjoyed pleasing him, though we both had boundaries.

The thought of never having that again is unbearable. I do remember in the very beginning he said that in the past he had used sex to manipulate, but I honestly thought and still do, that he had been so reflective and worked so much on him about his BPD that he was being sincere that he was not doing that with me.

Frankly, if he showed up right now, I probably wouldn't be able to resist him. I'd probably initiate it.

I can't imagine being that intimate and free with someone else. I hate condoms, so having to use them... .yuck... .I hate starting over. I am 45 years old. How will I ever find someone else? Especially since sex is important to me... .and after having 20 years of bad or so-so sex... .finding someone whose touch makes my skin tingle seems impossible. My kids go out of town on the 4th of July every year. While they were gone, we had "Fest of Eros", where we literally stayed in bed for whole days. Needless to say, I'm not doing so well.

I can't believe he destroyed this, delusions or not. Like lifewriter said, unbearable sadness.

If I ever am lucky enough to have a relationship again, I hope I can experience that love and intimacy and freedom. It's pretty hard to believe that will ever happen.

[Nuitari]

I'm seeing a lot of familiar stuff here, so much so that its kinda painful to read. My ex flat out told me at the beginning of the relationship that she would do any sexual thing I wanted. During the first week or so before things got physical, sex was all she could talk about. In the middle of an otherwise normal conversation, I would get hit with random sex questions like "have you ever had anal sex?" "Have you ever been in a threesome?" "What do you think about when you masterbate?" This stuff was on her mind 24 hours a day. It was almost like she was an addict. The sex was always amazing but, like others have said, it wasn't just about physical pleasure for me. It was a very personal connection. At least that's how I saw it at the time. But now that I know her better, I suspect that feeling was one-sided. For her there is nothing personal about sex. For her its like medicine, and if she doesn't get it often enough she starts climbing the walls. It wasn't long before I began to feel like I was just a tool for her. I sometimes think sex is the only benefit she sees in a relationship. If there's no sex in a relationship (for example, if its a long distance relationship), she can't see the value or point of it. For her I guess its like opening up a bank account and not putting any money in it. Why would someone do that? If she can't get it from her committed partner, she'll get it from somewhere else. She's very attractive, so she would have no trouble.

After our relationship ended, she was still very clingy to me, even though she was back with her husband, and it was reaching a point where I was beginning to feel uncomfortable. And on a few occasions she tried to initiate sex with me (and I'm ashamed to say that I finally gave in to her. I could only resist for so long.)  She said it was because she wasn't getting it from her husband who was temporarily out of commission for medical reasons. But now, when I look back, I can see a correlation between these sexual episodes and my attempts to distance myself from her. So now I am wondering if the sex was really about her own gratification, or a way of keeping me close to her.

I don't know if it was her intention to hook me with the sex, but if so, it worked. I know its a shallow thing for me to say, but I wouldn't hesitate to sleep with her again, despite the anger and hate that feel for her pretty much all the time now. The sex memories are the only memories that aren't ruined for me, and I would gladly relive them again if I had the chance. I no longer desire a relationship with her because I know its not possible. I'll never fall for her "I love you" crap again. But if I'm going to be completely honest with myself, if she asked me if I would like to have sex with no strings attached, I would jump at the chance. The sex is the one hook she still has in me.  

[Leonis]

I don't know if it was her intention to hook me with the sex, but if so, it worked. I know its a shallow thing for me to say, but I wouldn't hesitate to sleep with her again, despite the anger and hate that feel for her pretty much all the time now.

Pretty much this. And I think neither me nor her would say no if we were in the same room alone.

[gotbushels]

I don't know if it was her intention to hook me with the sex, but if so, it worked. I know its a shallow thing for me to say, but I wouldn't hesitate to sleep with her again, despite the anger and hate that feel for her pretty much all the time now.

Pretty much this. And I think neither me nor her would say no if we were in the same room alone.

I felt this way too sometimes. I also felt pangs of guilt. Lots of guilt. I thought, "But I'm so mentally separated, how can this still be?" So when it came to this--I still questioned, "Would I really say 'No'?" I can't claim a perfect solution but I will definitely share that it gets better. I found that it's okay. Your answer may change from "Yes" to "No" over time. And that's okay too.

Having been significantly single after the separation--I'll add that it's possible to let this go without another partner. That's an advantage we have over the grasping relationship jumping that many of us know can characterise BPD behaviour. We aren't imprisoned by the fear and abandonment panic to jump into another relationship. We can do better than that.

I think it's quite clear we all experience a similar sense of longing or wanting. Take care. I hope everyone finds peace.

[Reforming]

Hi all,

It's an interesting subject that goes right to the heart of these relationships. I came across an interesting thread on a BPD website a while ago - BPDs discussing object constancy and sex. It's worth a read for those interested in hearing how some of those suffering from the disorder experience sex and connection.

www.psychforums.net/borderline-personality/topic141035-10.html

It strikes me that because of their desire to connect and bond with us they will work very hard to match our particular sensitivities and desires which vary along the lines that the posters here have described.

I don't think this is deliberately malicious or manipulative - it's a desperate attempt to create and sustain an attachment and avoid abandonment. They also do this in other ways - intense mirroring, idealisation etc.

But having a partner who is focussed on fulfilling your every sexual fantasy is pretty heady stuff so it's not surprising that it can be very hard to step back and accept that this profound and exhilarating connection we felt and I'm not just talking about the sex here - wasn't actually deep, sustainable or grounded in reality.

If you view BPD and other PDs as a kind of emotional arrested development we're talking about partners who despite their adult appearances are actually quite child like in critical ways. Emotional regulation, reality testing, boundaries... .

To move froward I think we need to reframe our relationships in a healthy way and recognise the reality of the attachment - intense but volatile, unrealistic and fragile - so that we can make wiser and more informed choices in the future.

I think this means learning from what happened and recalibrating ourselves so that we're able to enjoy a mutually healthy and loving relationship  with someone who is mature and stable enough to genuinely meet our needs. That doesn't exclude finding a partner who sexually compatible but it might mean turning away from unhealthy intensity and fantasy that is often a hallmark of these relationships.

Reforming