How will I know I've hung around here too long?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I haven't had anything to do with D. in a long, long time. He broke off communication on an angry and sarcastic note, and he's made no effort to repair things. I don't mean that he's made no effort to get back with me: I mean that he was the aggressor in all the bitter encounters we had (which he made sure to restrict to email) since he revealed his current relationship to me--and everything he's done has been about putting distance between us.

What was it that passed between us for the two and a half years we were so in love? It's gonna take a long time to figure it out, if I ever do, but there's no denying that it's over, and the promises we made to each other about caring deeply for each other as friends added up to nothing. There's nothing I can do to break down the wall he erected between us.

All evidence points to the fact that he isn't even the person I once knew (or thought I did). There's no one to repair things with. For a long time now, this has been about my recovery, my detachment.

He's a ghost who, upsettingly, continues to occupy the physical plane. That's all. And yet here I am still writing about him to you lovely strangers.

In the beginning we cling to our ghost lovers with hopes for a reconciliation, then we cling to the idea that we can FIX the thing that's wrong, then we cling to the idea that they, in their absence, are fixing it and will re-materialize and we can apply all our new-found insights to the relationship of years ago. Then we cling to our attachments with obsessive thoughts, with anger, with pity, with checking up on them, with checking whether they are checking up on us. Then we cling to any word we can get from common friends. All of it is a way of maintaining a connection. Is posting about him here another way of hanging on?

As you can see, I have a lot of posts under my belt. Sometimes, I hope, I have been able to help someone else or be a sympathetic ear. I like that there is a community of arms holding each other up, and I want to lend my arms. But what's the endgame? How will I know I've hung around here too long?

[steelwork]

I haven't had anything to do with D. in a long, long time. He broke off communication on an angry and sarcastic note, and he's made no effort to repair things. I don't mean that he's made no effort to get back with me: I mean that he was the aggressor in all the bitter encounters we had (which he made sure to restrict to email) since he revealed his current relationship to me--and everything he's done has been about putting distance between us.

What was it that passed between us for the two and a half years we were so in love? It's gonna take a long time to figure it out, if I ever do, but there's no denying that it's over, and the promises we made to each other about caring deeply for each other as friends added up to nothing. There's nothing I can do to break down the wall he erected between us.

All evidence points to the fact that he isn't even the person I once knew (or thought I did). There's no one to repair things with. For a long time now, this has been about my recovery, my detachment.

He's a ghost who, upsettingly, continues to occupy the physical plane. That's all. And yet here I am still writing about him to you lovely strangers.

In the beginning we cling to our ghost lovers with hopes for a reconciliation, then we cling to the idea that we can FIX the thing that's wrong, then we cling to the idea that they, in their absence, are fixing it and will re-materialize and we can apply all our new-found insights to the relationship of years ago. Then we cling to our attachments with obsessive thoughts, with anger, with pity, with checking up on them, with checking whether they are checking up on us. Then we cling to any word we can get from common friends. All of it is a way of maintaining a connection. Is posting about him here another way of hanging on?

As you can see, I have a lot of posts under my belt. Sometimes, I hope, I have been able to help someone else or be a sympathetic ear. I like that there is a community of arms holding each other up, and I want to lend my arms. But what's the endgame? How will I know I've hung around here too long?

[Nester]

I asked my therapist how long I had to stay in therapy (it had been 3 years), and she said "Until you don't need to talk about it any more." That was 5 years ago, and I'm still going, and I still need to talk about it. So, I think that as long as you feel that you need to post about your ex, you should give yourself permission to do it. Two and a half years is a long time, even for a healthy relationship: I'd expect the grief from an unhealthy one to last even longer.

Take care,

Nester

[Herodias]

Nester, how long was your relationship?

[fromheeltoheal]

As you can see, I have a lot of posts under my belt. Sometimes, I hope, I have been able to help someone else or be a sympathetic ear. I like that there is a community of arms holding each other up, and I want to lend my arms. But what's the endgame? How will I know I've hung around here too long?

By focusing on the goal.  The goal here on detaching is to detach, meaning completely sever the emotional connection with our exes, let go of hope that it could ever work, learn the lessons, and move on, using our newfound wisdom to create a life worth living.  Or some version of that, up to each of us to decide.  If you've met that goal and wonder why you're here, then maybe you're done?  Or as you ask, Is posting about him here another way of hanging on?  Could be, up to you to decide.

I haven't seen or communicated with my ex in years, won't ever again, fine by me, and participation on this site takes a number of forms, many of which you listed, and there are more, when the focus shifts entirely from our exes to us, and we spend time on the Personal Inventory board, taking the lessons we're learning and integrating them into our lives.  Now there are many places to do that that don't remind us of our exes, for each of us to decide how much value we're getting and how much being reminded matters.  For me, I'm at a point where it is very fulfilling to be able to help someone with the information I had no idea I was going to learn going in, that, and I now find personality disorders fascinating, the way a human develops in general fascinating, and seeing more and more examples of what it means to be human on these boards just deepens my understanding.

So how do you know steel?  Are you getting value?  Is it the right kind of value, or a way to cling to hope?  :)o you know the answers?

[cherryblossom]

You took the words right outof my mouth i was thinking about this today - i swear i use this site as a replacement for the connection with him - but is that bad thing? I think its like an AA meeting - hard to go cold turkey without support - and the people that run the site ensure people dont stagnate with their views and geny offer fresh alternative perspectives xxx

[Hopefulgirl]

Steelwork,
what you have to say is how I feel about my exBPD guy word for word almost. I know this site is a help to you and when you write about how you feel its certainly a help to me knowing Im not the only one out there alone in this.

I ended up talking to a minister at my church about my situation and he simply said to me that maybe this person was not the person I was supposed to be with forever, he wasnt meant to be my true love, that God had put me in front of him to help him get through this difficult time and if I hadnt come along and loved and cared for him he would have spireled into something worse. But my time was simply over and it was time to move on.  Of course I wanted to say but heck, what about me, Im the one in pain now! :-) but i didnt.

Its been almost four years since I met him and this whole treadmill of feeling hopeful, despair, exileration, depression, love, hate does bad things to even the most stable people. Obsessing about it takes up so much emotional energy with no payoff.

People might disagree but I don't think you've hung in too long if you can truly just be a good friend to him and nothing more and always let them know you are there for them and keep your heart out of it. 

According to my friends the only way to be truly "over it" is to just meet someone else and go out more. And of course fall in love which is so simple, right?

[kc sunshine]

 Hey steelwork -- great question. I'm not sure of the answer but I do know for sure that I have totally appreciated your presence here and have learned a lot from you. Your experience also resonates with mine in lots of ways-- including the amount of time you were together and also that your ex used the fact that you were with someone else when you met him as a reason to devalue and discard you (if I got your story right).

I'd miss you on here but maybe one thing you could do is go a week or two off the boards and see how you feel. (Please report back on the experiment!)

[balletomane]

I have been having identical thoughts lately. I've been posting here for almost a year. I find that I can go a few weeks without logging in, and then I will feel the pain again and want to come back. But posting here too much seems to pull me deeper into the pain, as reading other people's posts reminds me of what it felt like when I was still in touch with him and he was at his worst. It's a tough balance to strike.

[Leonis]

I ended up talking to a minister at my church about my situation and he simply said to me that maybe this person was not the person I was supposed to be with forever, he wasnt meant to be my true love, that God had put me in front of him to help him get through this difficult time and if I hadnt come along and loved and cared for him he would have spireled into something worse. But my time was simply over and it was time to move on.  Of course I wanted to say but heck, what about me, Im the one in pain now! :-) but i didnt.

Don't even bother talking to people who don't understand. I doubt your minister had a relationship involving cluster B. This is why we go to counselors and come to groups like this when times are tough.

It's like the saying "Let them eat cake!" or wondering why someone with depression can't just "get over it".

Friends and family can only do so much because they don't really understand the whole picture.

[Hopefulgirl]

You are absolutely right Leonis,
The only reason why I started talking to the minister is because my friends and family were tired of me talking about him. If I mentioned his name more than once a week they would almost get angry with me and say he's just crazy, you just shouldn't talk to him or respond to anything he says.

Part of the problem is that I live in a city that's not very big and he and I know a lot of the same people so I can't talk about him anymore to people because it might get back to him. And I don't want people knowing that he has borderline personality disorder.
 I feel sorry for people who go through this kind of thing with zero support system. Or a psychiatrist.

[fromheeltoheal]

Friends and family can only do so much because they don't really understand the whole picture.

Not only that, they can make it worse, even though they care about and want the best for us.  Someone might say "you're spending way too much time getting over that loser", "I told you a long time ago you should have left", "why can't you just move on?", which could be shaming statements and contribute to the gaslighting we may have experienced in the relationship, which can make us feel worse and more alone.  And doesn't help.  Reading the right books, talking to us here, and seeing a therapist who has experience with cluster B's are the best ways to extract ourselves and detach, and then, when we've got some distance and can be more objective, we might want to illuminate those close to us as to what really went on if we choose.

[MapleBob]

I think about this sometimes - I'm at almost-a-year-here too. I've detached a little bit and I'm here less often and starting my own threads less often, so I've got that going for me.  

I think the right answer is "You've hung around here too long... .when you start hanging around here less."  

[Icanteven]

I like that there is a community of arms holding each other up, and I want to lend my arms. But what's the endgame? How will I know I've hung around here too long?

Who says hanging around here is a bad thing?  My wife leaving opened my eyes - even if only for a short time - to the depths of despair she must feel every single day of her life.  And, barring a miracle - in the according to Hoyle sense of the word - there's really nothing else to say about my relationship; it's over, she's perfectly fine with leaving us behind, and the more time that passes the more I realize just how toxic she was to me and our children.  But, by experiencing her pain, I've done a lot more volunteer work around mental illness, donating both my time and money and story in a way that helps people going through the same thing.  And, by hanging around here, I can listen and let people know they're not alone and even maybe occasionally have something helpful to say that will help them the way others have helped me.

This site helped me understand my wife in a way I never did throughout our relationship; I stick around as catharsis for me; not to get over my relationship or figure out next steps nor anything else, but to try and remind people that they're not alone and that we'll all get through it together.

[once removed]

a support group is what you make of it, and fromheeltoheal summed it up nicely. we are all at different stages of detachment and the support group in question can meet all of those stages. for those at the acceptance stage, the journey doesnt necessarily have to end - there is benefit for all parties when we support others and share what we have learned, there is the Personal Inventory board (i havent seen a more insightful bunch of folks), there are the lessons on the Improving board that are invaluable and will strengthen all of your relationships (of all kinds), there is the Building Healthy Relationships board (also an insightful bunch of folks), the Members Lounge for chatting about disorders for those that are interested, and more. the members who have made the most of their journey and gone on to build healthy relationships have utilized these boards and their tools - i think people miss that about the Detaching board and the site in general.

and for anyone who dips into these boards/tools as part of building a new life, i suspect you will find yourself moving closer to detachment.

[Skip]

By focusing on the goal.  The goal here on detaching is to detach, meaning completely sever the emotional connection with our exes, let go of hope that it could ever work, learn the lessons, and move on, using our newfound wisdom to create a life worth living.  

I would say that some leave here when they accept the demise of the relationship and let go.  The real benefit of a support group, however, is to go the next step and see ourselves and why we participated in a conflicted relationship for so long and why letting it go was so painful.

We could sit in a room alone an eventually accept the end of the relationship.  Having others reflect on who we are and how we might struggle in our own reality is really a support group benefit.

If most of what we have accomplished is analyzing our partner - we have more work to do.

[steelwork]

If most of what we have accomplished is analyzing our partner - we have more work to do.

This got me thinking. "Accomplished" seems like an odd word for what's gone on with me in the last year and a half, but if I think of it that way, the bulk of what I've accomplished has been focused on myself and my family. I've spent a lot of time puzzling out my own behavior in the relationship, and I think I understand it much better. I've come to a very different view of my childhood and the things that happened to me. In certain ways, it was a cult-like setting, and all the things that outsiders understood as abuse and neglect I wore like badges of honor. I'm afraid my relationship with my mother has completely tanked, but that's in large part because it finally occurred to me to disagree with her version of my life. I'm still really in the middle of figuring out what's possible for me and what I want in terms of romance. There's a lot going on, and most of it has nothing to do with D. He is in the dead letter bin. Still, he haunts me. I don't know if his ghost has more to tell me, or if I'm just letting it hang around because I miss him, or if I miss him because I'm letting him hang around, etc.

[joeramabeme]

Great question steelwork and one that I and seemingly others are asking about themselves. 

It seems your question has been reframed into; how do I know when I have detached.  I am 6 months out of divorce and a little over 1 year on this board and while there does seem to be a progression of recovery I am not fully detached.  That said, detachment is a process over time and the duration required has lots of variables.  For example, some of us start this journey already possessing a certain level of self- awareness or perhaps therapy etc.

In the end, I think detaching is realizing that we cannot change who they are and they are not very likely to ever change at all.  Since we can only change ourselves, the focus shifts from being about them to being about us and that is how we can be most effective in setting a new course for desired outcomes in our own lives.  Not simple and not easy.

I feel a temptation to look at others posts and think, they are further along and perhaps have an overall smaller number of postings.  Or we judge ourselves based upon the total count of posts we have made, I sure have.  The good news is that each of us is able to point to some degree of progress made on our journey.  How fast that progress seems to go is likely to have as much to do with where you start the journey from as it does about how readily you can learn, apply and integrate everything learned here.   

Steelwork, only you know how you feel on the inside and whether you are moving in the right direction and only you can gauge your progress.  If you need more time than take it.  Glossing over unfinished growth means you are likely to have to repeat an unlearned lesson in a painful manner.  From what you have written, it sounds like you need more time. 

I thank you for this post.  My reply allows me to share some of what's going on with me at the 500+ posting mark.

JRB

[Wize]

In the end, I think detaching is realizing that we cannot change who they are and they are not very likely to ever change at all.  Since we can only change ourselves, the focus shifts from being about them to being about us and that is how we can be most effective in setting a new course for desired outcomes in our own lives.  Not simple and not easy.

Hi joe.  I always enjoy reading your posts.  This bit above strikes a chord with me.  I know I should be shifting the focus from my ex to myself but this seems very unnatural to me.  My sense of duty when it comes to other people has always been to focus on them and their needs.  I was taught that being a good person means sacrificing for them, I was taught that's was love is.

I guess that explains why all my relationships have been one-sided.  I give all and they give nothing.  They leave and I'm left feeling that what I have to offer is worthless because no one wants it enough to stay with me. 

But this r/s with the pwBPD has really motivated me to focus on myself because that's where the improvement is needed.  I need to feel better about myself so that I learn to say "hey, I have needs, I deserve love and won't settle for less." This relationship is slowing making me aware of the areas I need to change.  But right now, I just hurt a lot

[Herodias]

  Wise, isn't that something? We are capable of coming out stronger than we went in. It's like these people were meant to come into our lives for a season to teach us to take care of ourselves... .I wouldn't want to call it a blessing exactly, but a learning experience. It can only get better... .

[Nester]

Herodias, my relationship was just a few months, earlier this year. I've been in therapy for 8 years for lots and lots of other stuff (mostly trauma-related), so that's what I meant.

For what it's worth, my therapist said that she'll be in therapy for the rest of her life because of all the secondary trauma she's experienced listening to other people's trauma. She's an incredibly strong and healthy person, so I took it to mean that "it takes as long as it takes".

Best,

Nester