The king of push/pull

[Depression = 72% of members]

The king of push/pull sent me a text today telling me he is going away for a while. Tells me that he could not have cared more, that he loved me, that he’s sorry I seem so sad, sorry that my life is difficult (I lost my career due to this relationship) and advised me to submit my PhD as it will be good for me. It will change my life. He finished by saying that he's here for me and will help me now and any time in the future.

Sounds perfectly reasonable doesn't it? Only it's not. I want to scream. How can he ‘help me” if he’s going away. Is he here or is he not?

He followed this up by telling me not to trust my friends saying they are self-serving, artificial, self-absorbed and supercilious people. Projection anyone?

In a fit of anger and pain I responded:

Me: “Sad to say, but the person I should never have trusted really is you. I think you know that deep down. You hurt people. Stop hurting people then maybe you won’t feel so bad. Don’t call, don’t text, don’t email. My life is about to start again. I’m ok, for the first time in 2 years or so. I know I’m going to be ok. The people you criticise are with me all the way”.

Him: “That’s good, I hope you’re right. You always put me down. It doesn’t hurt now and didn’t before. I’m a good person and will remain so. I am used to your sentiments. Good luck”.

Me: “Good luck too. I mean it. I wish you well. I feel sad for you”.

Him: “ I’m good. You were one of, and perhaps, the love of my life I don’t believe you knew me. It’s a shame. Goodbye xx”.

Me (still very angry): “What part of “don’t’ call, don’t text, don’t phone” are you failing to understand? I don’t believe a word that comes out of your deceiving mouth. You hurt me. Wanted me to feel the pain you live with. It worked for a while. Not anymore. I’m sorry you’re hurting. I tried to help you. You feel this. You ruined us. I’ll change this number, emails. Best for both of us. Take care. I won’t forget I loved you once”.

Him: “How can you think that. How? I never lied or deceived you. I was always there for you and will always be there. You know deep down beneath the anguish and whilst being among the naïve you know. I know you do and that is why you feel and behave as you do. I know you”.

2 hours later

Him: “I wish you all the best and always will. It will pain me forever we didn’t work and in many ways I’ll feel wanting. Nonetheless I will not feel guilt as I was absolutely pure in attention and deed. All the best."

If I hear "I love you, but all the best" anymore everyone will hear me scream all the way from Australia.

It's time to close this down.

[Larmoyant]

The king of push/pull sent me a text today telling me he is going away for a while. Tells me that he could not have cared more, that he loved me, that he’s sorry I seem so sad, sorry that my life is difficult (I lost my career due to this relationship) and advised me to submit my PhD as it will be good for me. It will change my life. He finished by saying that he's here for me and will help me now and any time in the future.

Sounds perfectly reasonable doesn't it? Only it's not. I want to scream. How can he ‘help me” if he’s going away. Is he here or is he not?

He followed this up by telling me not to trust my friends saying they are self-serving, artificial, self-absorbed and supercilious people. Projection anyone?

In a fit of anger and pain I responded:

Me: “Sad to say, but the person I should never have trusted really is you. I think you know that deep down. You hurt people. Stop hurting people then maybe you won’t feel so bad. Don’t call, don’t text, don’t email. My life is about to start again. I’m ok, for the first time in 2 years or so. I know I’m going to be ok. The people you criticise are with me all the way”.

Him: “That’s good, I hope you’re right. You always put me down. It doesn’t hurt now and didn’t before. I’m a good person and will remain so. I am used to your sentiments. Good luck”.

Me: “Good luck too. I mean it. I wish you well. I feel sad for you”.

Him: “ I’m good. You were one of, and perhaps, the love of my life I don’t believe you knew me. It’s a shame. Goodbye xx”.

Me (still very angry): “What part of “don’t’ call, don’t text, don’t phone” are you failing to understand? I don’t believe a word that comes out of your deceiving mouth. You hurt me. Wanted me to feel the pain you live with. It worked for a while. Not anymore. I’m sorry you’re hurting. I tried to help you. You feel this. You ruined us. I’ll change this number, emails. Best for both of us. Take care. I won’t forget I loved you once”.

Him: “How can you think that. How? I never lied or deceived you. I was always there for you and will always be there. You know deep down beneath the anguish and whilst being among the naïve you know. I know you do and that is why you feel and behave as you do. I know you”.

2 hours later

Him: “I wish you all the best and always will. It will pain me forever we didn’t work and in many ways I’ll feel wanting. Nonetheless I will not feel guilt as I was absolutely pure in attention and deed. All the best."

If I hear "I love you, but all the best" anymore everyone will hear me scream all the way from Australia.

It's time to close this down.

[heartandwhole]

It sounds like words and actions are just not lining up, are they? I can relate to your frustration, and I'm sorry.   This may be an really opportune time to "shut it down" as you say. It seems like you two aren't going to agree about what happened in the relationship, so letting him have his reality while you focus on you is probably the best path going forward.

What do you think ?

heartandwhole

[UnforgivenII]

I love you but I don't love you. I am so perfect and I behaved perfectly. But you and only you ruined everything. Poor you.

This is what I get from his messages.

He just deserves a punch in his face!
I cannot suggest the right answer as it would be too graphic. Here in Italy we have a very pretty image for it. But I would be reported

[Rayban]

Never going to be a better time to shut it down.  My last conversation with her went pretty much the same way.  I did my mea culpa on several things.  Her not in the slightest. Her majesty is beyond reproach. Told her I hope her extreme bad luck of dating all these bad people will force her to look in the mirror, and realize she is the problem.  Felt the rage coming from me asking her to face reality , told her never to contact me again,  she asked the same for me.  Swore at me and she hung up.

It's been 10 days.  It's beginning to sink in, that this is the best thing that could have happened.  Logic is finally beginning to set in. Had a chat with my mom,  she simply said it's time to start thinking about yourself.  Move on, learn from it and forget her.

[Larmoyant]

With a heavy heart and lots of tears I’ve shut it down, blocked him from my emails and my phone. At some point I’ve got to take the reins of my own life and put a stop to the torment. I just wish it didn’t hurt so much.

My problem with letting go is because he confuses me, seems to want me, but as you say heartandwhole his actions don’t match his words. He keeps me dangling on a piece of string. It’s sadistic. It keeps me waiting here, hoping because I feel that he wants to come back triggering the stupid fantasy I have for making this work.

Unforgiven, yes a massive punch in the face! Hopefully, he’ll view my blocking him as one.

Rayban, I’ve told him lots of times never to contact me again, but he keeps on doing it and I keep on responding. Six months since I ended it, but he’s been in regular contact since trying to get me to back down, admit I’m at fault and presumably we could then get back together for another round of rages, insults, come here/go away. Listen to your mum RB she’s right.

[fromheeltoheal]

Don't know if you noticed but I did L, your tone has changed in the last couple days, you're finding your power, and very, very good for you!

[Larmoyant]

heeltoheal, I am finding my power! I’ve made a promise to give myself a chance. It’s a declaration 

I had a moment where I wavered though and checked my messages (redirected to spam, but easy to look). I’m going to forgive myself for this because it hasn’t been long 

I feel a need to work through the last message. Not to use it as a way to return to all the chaos, but it raises thoughts and feelings and I want to understand.

This is the message:

“Would you please explain how I hurt you? Surely it’s the other way around!”

Firstly, I don't feel compelled to respond. I think it’s bait. A way for him to keep me engaged in the chaos. Or maybe he’s having an abandonment fear moment? I’ve stopped feeling sorry (pity?) for him that he experiences this. This feeling traps me, but I do feel compassion. However, there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to help with this, and, trying to help him stops me from helping myself. 

Secondly, is he really perplexed at how he has hurt me? Can he really not remember the rages, insults, push/pull, etc? His text messages today suggest he does remember some of it.

Third, I think him and I are so caught up in our own hurts that we are missing something in communication. However, if I tried to untangle some of it he would sabotage it.

Lastly, I would like to let him know the ways he hurt me. Not now, maybe later. I wouldn't send it with the expectation of a well-thought out, balanced response. I've accepted this as a given that he’ll turn it all around on me. However, I'd like to answer his question calmly, with some compassion and understanding and not blame him for everything. I am slowly becoming aware of my own role in keeping it going. I don’t know if this is a good idea or not though? Is this a good idea?

Having said all that. I’m feeling surprisingly ok! Yes, still badly hurting, but I can feel those peaceful, happier, resilient emotions trying to come through. I can do this 

[fromheeltoheal]

“Would you please explain how I hurt you? Surely it’s the other way around!”

Firstly, I don't feel compelled to respond. I think it’s bait. A way for him to keep me engaged in the chaos. Or maybe he’s having an abandonment fear moment?

I think you're right, it's bait.  His goal is not necessarily to keep you engaged in the chaos though, it's to retain an attachment.  A borderline will interpret your distancing yourself as abandonment, the worst thing that can happen for a borderline, there's that abandonment depression staring him in the face again, just like forever, and a borderline hates to lose an attachment, not that he could articulate it like I just did, it just "feels bad".  So the only one to sever an attachment is you, and he's going to test it to see if it's still in place, and your resolve will be tested too, sounds like that won't be a problem for you at this point yes?

Lastly, I would like to let him know the ways he hurt me. Not now, maybe later. I wouldn't send it with the expectation of a well-thought out, balanced response. I've accepted this as a given that he’ll turn it all around on me. However, I'd like to answer his question calmly, with some compassion and understanding and not blame him for everything. I am slowly becoming aware of my own role in keeping it going. I don’t know if this is a good idea or not though? Is this a good idea?

Depends what your motivation and the goal is: 

If it's to "help him" that may just play into the existing dynamic and not be best. 

If it's to apologize for your part, because you think it's right, then that is valid, while also being aware that any hint of an ongoing emotional attachment on your part will inspire him to keep trying, so phrasing will be critical.

If it's to get closure, many of us here never got the closure we were looking for from our partner, so we get to find a way to give it to ourselves, which ends up being more powerful.  And regardless of what went down in the relationship, a borderline will interpret the attachment ending as abandonment, and will be triggered, and having conversations at that point usually makes it worse, so maybe best left alone, or at least done with low expectations, and definitely when you're centered, which is a non-issue if it's in writing.

I can do this 

Yes you can!   

[Stripey77]

If yours is the king of push/pull, mine is the crown prince.

Some of the behaviours are just... .staggering. This sounds like pure mental torture. How awful.


My ex BF goes through bouts of ST for various reasons, I think I'm on my 3rd round of it. Maybe 4th/5th as there have been mini ones too and they begin to blur. We've been officially broken up since the end of last August.  We were back together in November, only for him to disappear from my life 2 weeks later and send me back into ST, after he got drunk and missed a date with me (which, by the way, he somehow managed to turn around to be being my fault).

Then at Christmas, I was told I was deleted from his life after an incident.

6 months later after I walked out from that rant, and after I'd been through emotional hell, on a random night out we bumped into each other. He picked up the conversation almost exactly where we left it.

We reconnected again and had an amazing few nights together.

Right now, he's ignoring my presence again. Totally.

Guess who breaks the same silence, that he instigated, every single time? Hint: it's not me.  And that's because I'm never 'ignoring' him. It's one way.  I can't take this current ST seriously anymore. Absolutely everyone's reaction around here has been... .'he'll be back'.

It's as if he creates a drama that's not even there. It's all in his head. And what's saddest of all is that my ex knows this, he knows the problem is him and that's there's something wrong in his brain. I just don't think he knows what it is and he certainly can't articulate it.  

[Herodias]

Mine gave me the I'll always love you, I'll always be here for you and I have to move away from here I can't bare being away from you drama... .It doesn't seem to really matter. I think they saw it in a movie or something,   I am sorry you are dealing with it. You have to block the number for no contact. Part of me liked hearing it when I was still hooked. Not any more.

[Larmoyant]

heeltoheal, I’m beginning to understand this need for attachment issue, but why the mixed, push/pull messages whilst he’s trying to keep me there?

Is it on purpose? Does he know that it is confusing or does it just reflect his inner conflict? And does he want to keep me around until he finds a suitable replacement?

[Larmoyant]

So the only one to sever an attachment is you, and he's going to test it to see if it's still in place, and your resolve will be tested too, sounds like that won't be a problem for you at this point yes?

Well, it’s a problem in the sense of immense sadness, but I can’t go back anymore. Can’t sink back into blissful denial for just for a few minutes of relief.

Stripey, I experienced the silent treatment too, but it wasn’t his favourite weapon of choice, he seemed to prefer rages, insults, humiliation, but all of it IS mental torture. Constant drama. Do their minds ever rest do you think? It’s all very, very sad. To not be able to trust someone’s sincere love for you.

BlueHeron, I think my ex believes he’s in a movie. Some miserable, heartbreaking movie with a sad ending. It’s almost as if he doomed our relationship from the start. He used to (still does) send me sad, break-up songs. At first I thought he was romantic and sentimental, little did I know the songs represented some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

[fromheeltoheal]

heeltoheal, I’m beginning to understand this need for attachment issue, but why the mixed, push/pull messages whilst he’s trying to keep me there?

Is it on purpose? Does he know that it is confusing or does it just reflect his inner conflict? And does he want to keep me around until he finds a suitable replacement?

Once an attachment is made, a borderline will fear losing it, fear of abandonment, but also fear losing themselves in the other person, fear of engulfment, so you're right, the push/pull messages are a reflection of his inner conflict.  And borderlines hate to lose an attachment, it's the worst thing that can happen, so even if he had other attachments he may want to retain one with you, and will test it to see if it's still in place; the only one to sever it is you, and best way to do that is detach emotionally, so regardless of what we does or wants, it won't matter, and he'll perceive and eventually accept an attachment is no longer in place and go away.  None of that is necessarily malicious or conscious, he's just responding to feelings he has and doesn't know why.

[stimpy]

This is so reminiscent of what I've had to deal with as well.

The discard, the blaming, the quiet raging (I think she was the waif type), the anger, combined with stalking, turning up to things where she knew I'd be, but then making a huge point of not communicating with me giving me the silent treatment. That I guess was the attachment, not wanting to let me go, but also the push/pull, wanting me around, but not engaging.

In the end I'd just had enough, I had gradually worked out the BPD thing and began to see her in a new light, and one that all the advice is to run from. To detach and move on. It's so painful having to do this, but I just don't have the skills or knowledge or expertise to help her or to make a normal meaningful relationship out of this mess. Sure I miss her, she could be so charming and funny and fun to be around, but to re-engage with her on any level would be a disaster.