looking for some insight, suggestions or just someone to vent to

[laketha]

I am at a crossroad. I had my borderline partner removed from my home almost two years ago (The police placed a phone call to him and he left). I went to great lengths to keep in touch with him and be kind to him, even though his behavior towards me has been nothing short of despicable for almost two years, yet i continue to pursue him. Truth be told, if he was interested in moving forward with our relationship, I would. His anger continues and he reminds me everytime i speak to him how I threw him out and how my kids and I disrespected him and that someday he will have justice, particularly when my kids begin to experience life and see how bad it is out there; then we will realize how good we had it. We actually tried couple counseling and i walked out the last time because everything got so twisted and he had the therapist thinking that I'm crazy. This is what he says almost every time i talk to him "poor you", "its always about you". HOnest to goodness, it is so NOT about me. I'm disappointed in myself because it should be more about me and it isn't. The more he treats me like dirt, i find the harder i try to convince him that I love him and will stand by him, but I'm not so sure that is truthful because if he got out of control again, i can't be sure i wouldn't throw him out again. This time around my kids would be out of the house because they are away at grad school and college so I'd only have myself to worry about. He withholds things from me, some minor things and some big things. He has withheld sex for years. He withholds day to day things like people he may have spoken with during the day; going to lunch or out for a drink with someone after I ask him about his day and nothing is forthcoming. I would typically find out things about him from his friends. He doesn't like any of my friends and never socializes with them unless they are at my house for a special occasion. We only socialized with his friends, whom i happen to like very much. No matter what i did in the past it was never enough. He always said and still says that the kids and i never respected him. NOT TRUE. There were times I looked at his phone when he was acting even more distant than usual and i find flirtatious texts from women and  he simply told me I was crazy. I would explain that I was jealous because I loved him and he simply would repeat that I needed to be in therapy (which I am by the way), and that I was over reacting and crazy. He still never said to me that nothing was going on with these women however. I always told him that I had no problem with him having female companions provided i knew them and they knew of me and I knew when he was seeing them. No matter what I do or say it is somehow disrespectful to him. He will never forgive me for throwing him out (and abandoning him). He doesnt' want to be reminded that after he left my house we sat with his therapist and his therapist told us it was not a good idea for me let him back in. His therapist told him he should rent an apartment for a year while things got sorted it. When I remind him that this was indeed a decision made with input from his therapist, he now sees his therapist (former therapist) as having betrayed him. I don't know what it is that draws me to him, and i know i sound like a cliche when I say this, but i love him and that's why i keep trying. I am so sad because a part of me is so frustrated that I cannot "fix" him, and another part of me is so angry at myself for being so weak and not letting him go. I've been in therapy for over a year trying to let go, but can't seem to do it. I am otherwise very independent and have two great children, good job, and wonderful friends. This part of my life, however, has dragged me so far down into a hole and i don't know how to get out. If I stay, i need to figure out a way to deal with this disease so I can be happy in my own way; if i decide i need to end it, i need to figure out a way to rip that band aid off because this slow death has been agony.
Any advice would so very much be appreciated. Many thanks for listening.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Hi laketha,

I'm so sorry it's this painful, years later. You are sad because you cannot fix him, and angry at yourself for being weak, not letting him go. They feel like two very different feelings, as tho they should not co-exist, and that can make us feel even worse! These relationships are so confusing, it's normal and understandable to feel so conflicted.

There is a third way, which is to gift yourself closure while learning skills to communicate with him. It takes some intuitive skills to communicate to a pwBPD, to prevent conflict from escalating.

Are you in contact at all with him at the moment? How did you leave things last time you spoke?

[laketha]

Thank you for your response. I call him all the time because I miss him and i'm worried about him. He is smoking excessively and drinking a lot more than he ever did when we were together. He never calls me or wants to see me. When I call him, he does answer the phone but blows me off after about 60 seconds. I've tried to not call him for weeks on end, only to give in and call. I can't believe how addicted I am to this relationship. I know its wrong, but i feel in my heart that he is such a lost puppy and lashes out at me because he is so angry at himself. I know it's not right for me to put up with this nonsense but i can't seem to help myself. I cry way too much! I do make efforts to see my friends but i can't seem to let myself be interested in anyone romantically. I feel like i've made so very little progress in almost two years that we've been apart. I prayer that one day i wake up and this weight is lifted. Sorry to go on and on as i know there are much worse things in life. Thanks for listening. (I don't even see my therapist regularly anymore because I get the feeling she is also disappointed in me for not moving on).

[livednlearned]

Be gentle with yourself, ok? These are not easy relationships, whether we are actively in them or just outside. Someone has to be kind to you, so might as well be you 

Can you forgive yourself for wanting to connect with him? When we bond with people, it is natural to want to stay connected. It certainly confuses things when they act badly toward us. You were able to set a very difficult boundary with him and that's a sign of your strength. Can you see that? There are many people who cannot bring themselves to put their safety first, and you did. That's important for obvious reasons, and for other reasons not so obvious.

People with BPD regulate their emotions externally. That means we have to help stabilize the environment when they cannot. You have already done one of the hardest things to do, which means deep down you respect yourself and that is probably the most important factor in having a viable BPD relationship.

He needs you to respect yourself for the times when he cannot.

There are other things we can look at with you, like the communication going on in those 60 seconds. It takes some non-intuitive skills to talk with a person who suffers from BPD. We can work on those skills here with you if that's something you might like to do.

Also, a quick thought about your T. Sometimes you have to tell them what your goal is, to be clear about it. Maybe your T thinks your goal is to end the relationship? If your goal is to try and save the relationship, it might be important to tell your T that. You are conflicted, so she might not be clear what it is you want. Could you go back to your T and tell her, "My goal is to improve this relationship. I will put my safety first, I've shown myself that. What I want is to learn to set strong boundaries while I learn skills to talk to him. Can you support me in this goal?"

Is that a conversation you could have with her?

[Fie]

Hello Laketha 

I am so sorry for what you are going  through. This must all be very difficult for you. I can relate as I have a BPD ex.

I can tell these feelings you are having are confusing to you. Please  google 'trauma bonding'. You might find out that what you are experiencing, although it is highly unpractical, confusing and unhealthy, is completely normal.

If you are willing to work with this, I can highly recommend reading 'The journey from abandonment to healing', from Susan Anderson. I am reading it now, and it's a revelation to me.

Hope this helps   

[laketha]

Be gentle with yourself, ok? These are not easy relationships, whether we are actively in them or just outside. Someone has to be kind to you, so might as well be you 

Can you forgive yourself for wanting to connect with him? When we bond with people, it is natural to want to stay connected. It certainly confuses things when they act badly toward us. You were able to set a very difficult boundary with him and that's a sign of your strength. Can you see that? There are many people who cannot bring themselves to put their safety first, and you did. That's important for obvious reasons, and for other reasons not so obvious.

People with BPD regulate their emotions externally. That means we have to help stabilize the environment when they cannot. You have already done one of the hardest things to do, which means deep down you respect yourself and that is probably the most important factor in having a viable BPD relationship.

He needs you to respect yourself for the times when he cannot.

There are other things we can look at with you, like the communication going on in those 60 seconds. It takes some non-intuitive skills to talk with a person who suffers from BPD. We can work on those skills here with you if that's something you might like to do.

Also, a quick thought about your T. Sometimes you have to tell them what your goal is, to be clear about it. Maybe your T thinks your goal is to end the relationship? If your goal is to try and save the relationship, it might be important to tell your T that. You are conflicted, so she might not be clear what it is you want. Could you go back to your T and tell her, "My goal is to improve this relationship. I will put my safety first, I've shown myself that. What I want is to learn to set strong boundaries while I learn skills to talk to him. Can you support me in this goal?"

Is that a conversation you could have with her?

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have made it very clear that I want to work on the relationship. I continue to do nice things for him; i was calling him regularly to check on him; i tell him I love him all the time and I'm sorry. I tell him that i forgive him, why can't he forgive me for protecting myself and my children? He tells me that he never hit us (that is true. He has screamed, stood over me in anger at 6' v 5'; shattered glass on the floor; and scared me with this crazed look he gets in his eyes). He tells me that he'll have justice one day when we realize how bad it is out there and how good we had it. I don't understand why i still cry every day over him and want him back even though it is obvious that he does not want me and he will only continue to treat me badly. I was with him ten years before I got him out of the house. I don't want to give up but i don't think there is anything else i can do. He hates me so very much. He tells me this and I can feel it. I'm in pain everyday. I just wish it would stop. I'm trying to be strong. Today is day two that i haven't called him and made a fool of myself. I'm trying to accept where I am in life and to be ok with it. Just writing this helps. I'm grateful to have this outlet. Thank you.

[livednlearned]

I continue to do nice things for him; i was calling him regularly to check on him; i tell him I love him all the time and I'm sorry.

It might be time to park conversations about the past. You said your peace and it hasn't changed anything, plus he (being BPD), is not going to want to dwell on painful behaviors.

Some people with BPD also tend to use avoidance to deal with difficult feelings. If he is doing this, then warmth and closeness will have the opposite effect. He may want things to go back to "normal," and can't, because he is re-experiencing what was probably for both of you a traumatic episode.

I tell him that i forgive him, why can't he forgive me for protecting myself and my children?

Because that would mean taking responsibility for what he did, and he lacks the skills to cope with that emotional pain in a healthy way. The way he experiences his emotions causes a lot of problems for him, and those problems impacted you and your kids. He doesn't have the skills to stay out of the emotional whirlpool, so going back into it is not something he wants to do.

He keeps taking calls from you, and he doesn't have to. That is a sign of something. What do you think it is?

And what happens when you talk about other things not connected to what happened in your relationship? Have you tried to steer away from talk about those topics?

[laketha]

I am trying very hard to be strong and am grateful i found this site. I haven't called my BP in 5 days which is the longest i've gone in a long time. Just as i thought i was getting a bit stronger, i got a call from him, which was the first time he has initiated contact. It was always me. I stopped calling him because I can't take it anymore; he is always very angry at me; he has lied to me; he never wants to see me; he insists that i must fix everything and all that is wrong with his life is my fault. I have begged him to go to therapy and/or couple therapy; to help us to move forward. He refuses to help or compromise and wants me to fix it all.  Just as i get a little stronger, i get a call from him tonight, only to have him yell at me again about how its all my fault and i need to fix things. he never has a defined path or ideas as to how i am to fix things. My kids don't want to have anything to do with him because of how he treated me for years. i have talked to them about how I feel about my BP and while they don't approve they understand that its my life. They truly are wonderful, good kids and just want their mother to be happy. My BP can't see that and believes that we all conspired against him and that they are disrespectful. (they are not by the way). Anyway, i feel myself weakening again, because after he called me and i told him that i am not calling him anymore because it is obvious that i cause him more pain, which is the last thing i wanted to do; and that i'm prayerful that he can begin to heal. I felt ok about that and the next thing I know i get a text from him that he misses me. that is the first nice thing he has said to me in months, if not longer. I just want to cry  all over again. Is this manipulation? I just want to pick up the phone and tell him that I love him and miss him and to please lets work on getting back together, but i know everytime i've done that in the past, he ends up hating me again. I'm in so much pain again since i got that text. I can't take it anymore.

[livednlearned]

People with BPD are intensely hypersensitive and quick to become emotionally aroused. Once emotions are running, it can take them longer to return to baseline. These are intense, powerful, difficult, often negative feelings and it can feel really out of control and shameful to have them. Lacking skills to regulate these feelings, they try to regulate us, to feel some semblance of control over their experience.

One of the most powerful ways to help him help himself is to validate his feelings. "You feel the kids are disrespectful toward you, and that must be painful to feel." This helps lessen the emotional arousal that can lead to worse behavior.

A lot of people with BPD have had intense emotions and sensitivities their entire lives, and have tried desperately to mask their emotions or stuff their feelings, and this can start a cycle of shame that keeps looping and looping. Validation won't cure his BPD, tho it will validate that someone close to him acknowledges and accepts the way he experiences his feelings.

Is that something you've tried to do with him already?

[Fie]

Hello Laketha;

I felt ok about that and the next thing I know i get a text from him that he misses me. that is the first nice thing he has said to me in months, if not longer. I just want to cry  all over again. Is this manipulation?

Yes, it is. Nothing more, nothing less. He feels he's loosing his grip on you and he tries it  this way. Try not to fall for it. As you said, you have been there before. Focus on the 5 days and try to make it 6, 7, ... .one day at a time.

[laketha]

I gave in once again and started interacting with my BPD. I can't seem to break away no matter how hard I try and no matter how many distractions I create for myself. It just feels so "right" and comfortable when we are together when things are calm. I convince myself every time that things will be better but i know that nothing has really changed and the next blow up over nonsense is looming just around the corner. He is very vulnerable right now as his lease is about to run out and he wants to move back in with me. I am scared to death that we will fall back into the same patterns. Things were so very bad the last time he lived with me, which is what prompted me to get help in having him removed from my home. I love this man but feel that I have tried every angle to improve our relationship, to no avail. We seemed to be doing better when he was going for regular therapy, but then decided that he no longer needed therapy. Within a year after that, things started to spiral downward again. I'm afraid of putting myself in a situation again where it will be even harder to extricate myself if things go south. I am thinking about making his moving back in conditional on him seeking therapy on a regular basis for the next two months before his lease runs out, and at least a promise to continue with therapy. I have been in therapy since i had him removed, but really haven't progressed at all because my therapist has tried for 1. 5 years to convince me that I should move on without him. I was ready to move on when BPD made it clear to me that he didn't want to reconcile. In retrospect, i don't know if that was sincere, or a ploy on his part. We had little communication (but some) for about six months and then we started seeing each other (not romantically), here and there, for an hour or two at a time. This is the most bizarre, dysfunctional relationship, yet I am drawn to him. The more vulnerable he seems, the more drawn i am to him. I am so confused because i don't know what i feel towards him anymore. I know i love him with all my heart though. I'm just scared and don't know if I can be strong enough to do all the things i know i'll need to do to even try to make this work. I do take care of myself, but i don't know if i have what it will take to be the "bigger" person, time and time again. I know i will have to "pretend" to understand his twisted view of things and hold my tongue to have peace and i don't know if i can do this when it is so obvious that his view of people and life is so twisted. I know there is no answer and ultimately it is my decision, but I feel so lost right now. I"m not getting any younger and want to live a peaceful life. When I pull away, i am sucked back in. I feel weak, and i know i need to be very strong to make this work. The forces pulling me back in are stronger than the desire to get out, I guess. I wish i could understand it, but unfortunately my own therapy hasn't shed any light. I don't want to get sucked back in because I feel sorry for him. I don't think that's the reason, really, but it has crossed my mind, because I've always been a very empathetic person. What do do?

[Fie]

Hello Laketha,

I am sorry that you feel so bad. It must be really hard to feel such strong emotions.

Have you tried to look at the reasons why you are attracted to a person who's obviously not good for you ? Have you taken  a look at your  FOO, and the kind of behavior you learned growing up ? For me that  helped, to distance myself from my BPD ex.
Did you google trauma bonding ? Did you find something that sounds like making sense to you ?