My friends refuse to believe me.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Last night in the middle of the night, I got a text from our friend who hosts many of the events I used to attend with my exBPD.  As some of you may know, my ex resurfaced in the past week or so, and after saying he would "never" hang out with my friends again, he decided to go to a party with them.  I was out of town so I wasn't attending anyway.

My exBPD has been threatening me with a PPO, something that could affect my employment as a public employee, and creating a string of paperwork to make it look like I am stalking him.  I have not had any contact with him since February, and have not spoken to him at all since early October of 2015.  In February he told the host in writing that he was fine with being at a party with me.

I have tried to persuade my host friend to uninvite my ex for his continued harassment of me (which the host has admittedly witnessed firsthand, albeit not at an event), or at least to mention to him that his behavior toward me is inappropriate.  The host refuses.  He says that everyone is welcome at his events and even though he has admitted that my ex is crazy and erratic, he says that he doesn't want to uninvite him.  He says that my ex "hasn't really done anything to me" yet.  In other words, he hasn't taken me to court and forced me to pay a thousand dollars for a lawyer, hasn't ruined my professional reputation, and hasn't chopped me up into chunks and dumped me into a ditch.  I'm not sure which of these the host would have to see to finally uninvite this guy.  The host told me that I should just "tolerate" the threats and that my ex is "all bark, no bite."  I guess I am supposed to keep provoking him and find out for sure.  Considering that my ex once wrote me a threatening letter for looking at him wrong, it wouldn't take much.

The host says that my ex would have to do something inappropriate *at a party* in order to warrant being uninvited, but apparently sitting at the party and making a list of my behaviors that annoy him and mailing it to me via certified mail afterwards is just fine.  My ex is a snake and knows how to do things so that it never looks like his fault.  Since the breakup, I am convinced that he is trying to frame me for some kind of crime.

My ex used to talk about his desire to murder his other ex-girlfriend and explain that he was morally justified in doing so.

Needless to say, I am not particularly interested in finding out what my ex is capable of.

I might be able to get a PPO against him, but all of his threats against me are couched as self-defense against my alleged stalking, and I only have minimal evidence.  If I try to get a PPO against him and fail, I am a sitting duck.  Then he will come for revenge.

I have no choice.  I'm cutting off all of my friends who have anything to do with my ex.

The crazy thing is that no one seems to believe me, or if they do, they give some glib response like, "I don't want to get involved in this," or worse yet, "I don't want to take sides.  I think your ex should have the benefit of the doubt."  I want to throw up.  There are some situations you just can't remain neutral in.  Sometimes you have a moral obligation to take a side.  If these people see this predator coming after me and their response is, "I don't want to take a side," then they are not really my friends.  My friends have come to see me as the problem because I am the one raising the issue and not just "tolerating" it.  Standing up for myself makes me a threat to their comfort.  The host has told me that I am harassing him by asking him to uninvite my ex for my safety, and has blocked me on Facebook and indirectly threatened legal action against me now.  Sounds like he is pretty cozy with my ex.

One of my other good friends used to talk about how her husband hadn't hit her YET.  She went back to him after leaving him once and ended up in the hospital with a bunch of broken bones.  I guess that's what it takes these days for people to see a problem.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Last night in the middle of the night, I got a text from our friend who hosts many of the events I used to attend with my exBPD.  As some of you may know, my ex resurfaced in the past week or so, and after saying he would "never" hang out with my friends again, he decided to go to a party with them.  I was out of town so I wasn't attending anyway.

My exBPD has been threatening me with a PPO, something that could affect my employment as a public employee, and creating a string of paperwork to make it look like I am stalking him.  I have not had any contact with him since February, and have not spoken to him at all since early October of 2015.  In February he told the host in writing that he was fine with being at a party with me.

I have tried to persuade my host friend to uninvite my ex for his continued harassment of me (which the host has admittedly witnessed firsthand, albeit not at an event), or at least to mention to him that his behavior toward me is inappropriate.  The host refuses.  He says that everyone is welcome at his events and even though he has admitted that my ex is crazy and erratic, he says that he doesn't want to uninvite him.  He says that my ex "hasn't really done anything to me" yet.  In other words, he hasn't taken me to court and forced me to pay a thousand dollars for a lawyer, hasn't ruined my professional reputation, and hasn't chopped me up into chunks and dumped me into a ditch.  I'm not sure which of these the host would have to see to finally uninvite this guy.  The host told me that I should just "tolerate" the threats and that my ex is "all bark, no bite."  I guess I am supposed to keep provoking him and find out for sure.  Considering that my ex once wrote me a threatening letter for looking at him wrong, it wouldn't take much.

The host says that my ex would have to do something inappropriate *at a party* in order to warrant being uninvited, but apparently sitting at the party and making a list of my behaviors that annoy him and mailing it to me via certified mail afterwards is just fine.  My ex is a snake and knows how to do things so that it never looks like his fault.  Since the breakup, I am convinced that he is trying to frame me for some kind of crime.

My ex used to talk about his desire to murder his other ex-girlfriend and explain that he was morally justified in doing so.

Needless to say, I am not particularly interested in finding out what my ex is capable of.

I might be able to get a PPO against him, but all of his threats against me are couched as self-defense against my alleged stalking, and I only have minimal evidence.  If I try to get a PPO against him and fail, I am a sitting duck.  Then he will come for revenge.

I have no choice.  I'm cutting off all of my friends who have anything to do with my ex.

The crazy thing is that no one seems to believe me, or if they do, they give some glib response like, "I don't want to get involved in this," or worse yet, "I don't want to take sides.  I think your ex should have the benefit of the doubt."  I want to throw up.  There are some situations you just can't remain neutral in.  Sometimes you have a moral obligation to take a side.  If these people see this predator coming after me and their response is, "I don't want to take a side," then they are not really my friends.  My friends have come to see me as the problem because I am the one raising the issue and not just "tolerating" it.  Standing up for myself makes me a threat to their comfort.  The host has told me that I am harassing him by asking him to uninvite my ex for my safety, and has blocked me on Facebook and indirectly threatened legal action against me now.  Sounds like he is pretty cozy with my ex.

One of my other good friends used to talk about how her husband hadn't hit her YET.  She went back to him after leaving him once and ended up in the hospital with a bunch of broken bones.  I guess that's what it takes these days for people to see a problem.

[married21years]

i am sorry

been there had that and left

left it all behind and moved on

it is very hard to convince someone has these issues

even my new partner cannot believe what has happened

[once removed]

hi greeneyedmonster 

i would feel pretty hurt after being abused by someone and seeing my friends remain neutral toward my abuser.  i had a mutual friend who had seen a lot of my exes behavior first hand, believed my side of the story, and ultimately chose my ex. it hurt. we are on your side here. youre among friends.

keep in mind that your friends have a very different relationship to this person than you do. it may be less about choosing sides, and more about choosing to stay out, which i see as a healthy course of action for all parties. your friends may have their suspicions that youre right. if they get involved (if your friend for example, tells your ex that his behavior toward you was inappropriate) not only do you risk his wrath, so do they. it could compound the situation. i consider myself a very loyal person. it is my impulse to get involved, to take up the cause of those close to me who have been wronged by someone else (and be upset when they didnt do the same for me). to rescue. ive learned a lot from that. there are other ways i can support my friends, and there are limits (boundaries).

you do have some choices including but not limited to cutting everyone out that associates with your ex. standing up for yourself can include not attending the party. it can be knowing and trusting in your truth and acting accordingly. external validation has no bearing on that, but its also fair to say your friend(s) has offered some pretty invalidating responses.

[bunny4523]

Hi Green Eyed Monster,

I work with my exBPD so we have alot of mutual acquaintances and I understand where you are coming from completely.  What I learned gained me the most respect is the concept "less is more".  Meaning don't give details.  The more details you give, the more the other person feels it's one sided and that you are trying to convince them of something.  Also they will evaluate the details for that particular incident and gauge the severity based on that one situation.  (without knowing all the other situations we have dealt with BPD)  Most people don't understand BPD or personality disorders... .How would they unless they experienced one.  I know I was clueless, I had no idea this type of high functioning craziness existed.  It is too hard to explain all of the BPD behaviors we have experienced and what it has done to us.  You will end up feeling like the crazy one begging and pleading for someone to believe you. 

Here is the route I chose and it worked for me. I said nothing until people starting seeing my ex treating me different at work.  Asking people where I am on my days off.  Smiling at me to my face one minute and then attacking my work ethic in front of others the next.  Getting irritated and impatient and cutting me off while I was trying to explain a work issue.    I remained calm and re-iterated my point.  I knew what he was doing. He was trying to get me to engage and I didn't so he was the one that came off irrational.  Afterwards, my co-workers would come in one by one saying things like, "what was that all about?."  I would just validate what they were seeing and shrug my shoulders and say, "this is the kind of stuff I dealt with." or my famous one liner is "I have my reasons."  I don't explain because I don't need them minimizing my situation and hey their imagination is probably worse than my reality so let them have at it.  So many people have my back now... .they watch out for me and they come to me saying, "are you ok?" "has he been messing with you recenlty."   I didn't even have to say anything, they don't even know the details but they see him misbehaving and the see me the same, calm... .cool and collected and they don't like seeing him treat me like this.  (they don't even know the half of it)

There are others that want nothing to do with being in the middle and they say dumb things like, "nice to see you chit chatting like the good old days."  I just say, "Pleassse... .don't act like you know."  Shut them down.

It is a very hard place to be for you, I completely understand.  Try not to draw negative attention to him but rather positive attention to yourself... .see if that helps at all in this situation or atleast maybe future situations.  Try and remember this is what your ex wants... .you running around saying "but he did this and that" and him calmly responding when he is confronted, "wow I don't know why she would say that, I'm fine being at the party with her, I'm over it."

Chin up & focus on YOU,
Bunny

[GreenEyedMonster]

The problem is that every single time I see my ex, it results in more serious threats from him.  EVERY time.  And I fully believe he is serious.  There is no chit chatting.  There is not even a faint veneer of getting along.  He loses his temper just being in a room with me.  It has come to an impasse... .him or me.

We are part of a social club that has participation rules.  The host sets the rules.  He refuses to deal with this guy's conduct even though he could put him on probation or kick him out.  The leader just refuses and tells me that the threats are just something I have to live with.  As the group leader, I feel strongly that he has an obligation to address this issue.  It's like he thinks the whole thing will just go away if he ignores it.  He could address it very professionally and impartially in his official role, but... .nope.  That's why I'm so frustrated.

It also makes me feel worthless.  I'm not worth the trouble to my friends.  They're happy to see me go.  I have helped people in domestic violence situations before and can't imagine just doing nothing out of my own convenience.

I'm not safe when I'm with my friends, and they won't do anything, so I guess that's a deal breaker.

[Tobiasfunke]

We are your friends. We believe you. We lived it. I asked my family to be as cordial as possible with my ex. For the sake of my kids and showing mercy for someone is severely mentally ill. She will never now peace or lasting healthy loving r/s. She still fluctuates with me but I believe she now knows how much she has screwed up. It drives me crazy seeing her talk to members of my family or friends but I just let it go and stay as nc as possible. I have given some close with me this site so they can inform themselves. We are not being petty or vindictive being nc. Just protecting ourselves. No one can understand this situation until they have lived it. And here we are. You are not demonizing your ex by giving your experience of the relationship you lived thru.

[bunny4523]

Green Eyed Monster,

I hear you... .How serious are these threats?  Is it towards you physically?  Can you go to your police department?  Might be time to take a step in that direction.  If it's stuff like "I'm going to get you fired." those types of things I wouldn't react to (I know it's frustrating but choose your battles.  If you don't react, it's likely he will find someone else to bother) but if it's something physical... .document it all and do something about it.  States are all different how they handle that so I'm hoping you are in one that will do something for you.

If you don't feel safe when you are with your friends, I agree they are not your friends and they are not worth spending time with.

Bunny

[GreenEyedMonster]

The threats are written in legal boilerplate so that he can look like a saint.  He has threatened to get a PPO against me, which, because I am a public employee, I must defend myself against.  In my county of residence, PPOs are granted almost 100% of the time ex parte (without a hearing) and I would need to request a hearing with a lawyer present to dissolve the PPO.  The lawyer I consulted, based on the advice of my union, said that I would need to write him a check of $1000 to retain his services.  I don't have $1000, especially to spend on some loser like this.  He likes to mention costing me my job and putting me in prison in his threats, but the real threat is how he would rape my reputation in the court system for free, and I would have to hemorrhage money in order to stop him.  He has the upper hand in this situation.  Then there is my fear of what would happen if I won in court; see his homicidal rantings described above.  He is not nearly stupid enough to spell out what he really wants to do to me, but I have his thoughts on his previous ex to pencil them in.  I can't even imagine what he would do if I got a PPO against him, or tried . . . and especially tried and lost.  I am scared to find out.  At any rate, the consequences of this situation are very real, and not just bluster.

All of his threats to me also follow a description of something I allegedly did to him, so if I brought them to court as evidence, it would still make me look really bad.  This guy is a real snake.  He wants to take me down in flames.

Here are the Host guidelines for our group:
"You understand that the Organizer of a Group [ . . . ] in which you are a member has the right, in his or her sole discretion, to temporarily suspend, indefinitely suspend or terminate your membership in his or her Group."  (It goes on to say that they can set eligibility requirements as well.  Emphasis mine.)

"All organizers and members must take ownership over their safety, and must never put themselves or others in danger.  [ . . . ] When appropriate, we encourage organizers to set guidelines for their Groups to ensure their members are participating safely."

Yeah, I'm soo safe.

I copied it exactly and only removed a couple descriptors for my personal privacy.  So my Host Guy has the right to terminate my ex's membership, but refuses to do so.  He told me that without legal documentation of harassment, i.e a PPO obtained against my ex, he can't suspend his membership, because it's a free service.  What on earth does that have to do with anything?  His rights are spelled out very clearly in the user agreement.  He is selling me a crock.

My Host Guy keeps saying that the only infractions that "count" in his opinion are disagreements that happen at a gathering.  So what my ex does is becomes raging mad at me at a gathering, storms off halfway through, goes home and writes me a hateful letter listing off all of my alleged offenses toward him at the gathering, and then mails it.  So he makes me look like I'm harassing him at the gathering, while he is following the "rules" by harassing me from home.  I guess the location has everything to do with it.  My Host disagrees and says that the harassment is not happening at a gathering, but I say that when my ex is there gathering evidence of alleged harassment and mailing it to me later, that I am under threat while I am at the gathering.  He has never come around to see my point, and now apparently never will.  (It's not like I've seen or spoken to my ex anywhere else in a whole year!)

Interestingly enough, the Host is a 40ish guy who lives in his mommy's basement and plays with toys, just like my ex.  You can't expect a lot of intestinal fortitude from that lot.

Honestly, it's the feeling of worthlessness that is getting to me most right now.  My friends could have gotten together and done a very simple thing -- banning my ex or issuing him a warning -- to stop this behavior, and they just plain won't.  They all act totally helpless in the face of his threats, like there is just nothing they can do about this sad situation and I'm the problem for continually bringing up that they are the ones with the power and responsibility.

[bunny4523]

Okay... .I see what is happening.  Do you remember the old saying, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me?"  I know this man is terrorizing you.  He is digging down to the deepest most important things in you to hurt and destroy you but I need you to step back for a minute. 

You are getting so upset over things he MIGHT do... .things he is threatening to do.  I get it, I would be just like that too, the fear of his follow through and what if he does do it then what will you do next... .and back & forth until it has escalated so far in your thought process, you're panicing.  Save your energy and wait until he actually does something.  He sounds like a bully and sometimes the best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him.  Don't be afraid to get that PPO against him if you feel it is necessary.   How come you think he could get a PPO against you easily but you worry you wouldn't be able to get one on him? 

I can see what is hurting the most is that he is harassing you and none of your friends are doing anything to stop it.    That is not cool.  I would be really upset about that too.  Because if you were my friend, I would do something.  I wouldn't be able to stop myself because I would want him to know you have backup and someone that cares about you.  Even if it was just walking up to him at the event and just looking straight into his eyes to let him know he doesn't scare me and I'm watching him. 

He is pushing your buttons and he knows it.  He is going to keep doing it as long as he continues to get a reaction out of you.  Maybe it's time to just try something new... .  maybe try not giving him any attention for these outbursts.  Just ignore them.  Do you think you can try that?  Show him you have moved on and are happy and he can't get to you anymore... .   

I remember I had an ex that liked to bully and he scared me so bad cause I knew he was capable of his threats to get me fired or say horrible private things to humiliate me in front of people.  When I would panic and react, he did it more.  It wasn't until I finally fought back and said, "bring it" that he finally found someone else to pick on. 

I think your right about the feeling of worthlessness that is getting to you the most.  How are you going to take back your self worth?  First you've got to believe it, you've got to stand up for yourself... .   You can't keep doing this back and forth fight with the ex because my guess is he is meaner and can play dirtier than you so you won't win.  You've got to change it up. 

Think about it and see if any thoughts or actions you can do will make you feel more empowered and bring back your self worth.  The battle really isn't about legalities and PPO's, it's about your mental strength and keeping him out of your head.   If you can find a way to feel good and back on top, you will be back on top.

Keep talking it out.  It sounds like a really frustrating situation and I'm sure you feel alone in it.  I'm sorry that you don't have more people supporting you right now but we are here. 

Bunny

[GreenEyedMonster]

Okay... .I see what is happening.  Do you remember the old saying, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me?"  I know this man is terrorizing you.  He is digging down to the deepest most important things in you to hurt and destroy you but I need you to step back for a minute. 

You are getting so upset over things he MIGHT do... .things he is threatening to do.  I get it, I would be just like that too, the fear of his follow through and what if he does do it then what will you do next... .and back & forth until it has escalated so far in your thought process, you're panicing.  Save your energy and wait until he actually does something.  He sounds like a bully and sometimes the best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him.  Don't be afraid to get that PPO against him if you feel it is necessary.   How come you think he could get a PPO against you easily but you worry you wouldn't be able to get one on him? 

Because his letters to me contain unwarranted stalking accusations, and it's basically his word against mine.  He has a MS Word file (which he mailed to me once) that contained a log of every alleged unauthorized interaction I've had with him, conveniently omitting all the ones he initiated in between.  He is meticulous and would have no problem at all blowing tons of money on an expensive lawyer to get me back.  Since he has only contacted me in writing twice since the breakup, it would all hinge on those two pieces of evidence.  The other threats have all been posted publicly on his Facebook page or sent roundabout through friends, so I can't prove them.

Also, our county is extremely liberal in granting a PPO.  I might get one against him, but after that, then what?  That's like hitting a hornet but failing to kill it, in my opinion.  He can probably dish out worse later.

I can see what is hurting the most is that he is harassing you and none of your friends are doing anything to stop it.    That is not cool.  I would be really upset about that too.  Because if you were my friend, I would do something.  I wouldn't be able to stop myself because I would want him to know you have backup and someone that cares about you.  Even if it was just walking up to him at the event and just looking straight into his eyes to let him know he doesn't scare me and I'm watching him. 

Yeah, I'm wondering why not ONE of my friends will do this.  They all cite technicalities that make it my fault or just "not getting involved" as their reasons for not doing anything.  On the other hand, when one of my friends talked to him because she was angry about what he did, he got even angrier, and added it to his list of times I "stalked" him and made up a story about me putting my friend up to it -- which I didn't.
 

He is pushing your buttons and he knows it.  He is going to keep doing it as long as he continues to get a reaction out of you.  Maybe it's time to just try something new... .  maybe try not giving him any attention for these outbursts.  Just ignore them.  Do you think you can try that?  Show him you have moved on and are happy and he can't get to you anymore... .   

I've tried this and it's a temporary fix at best.  Once he's back around me again, it all starts over . . . . In fact, this is Round 3.

  I think your right about the feeling of worthlessness that is getting to you the most.  How are you going to take back your self worth?  First you've got to believe it, you've got to stand up for yourself... .   You can't keep doing this back and forth fight with the ex because my guess is he is meaner and can play dirtier than you so you won't win.  You've got to change it up. 

Think about it and see if any thoughts or actions you can do will make you feel more empowered and bring back your self worth.  The battle really isn't about legalities and PPO's, it's about your mental strength and keeping him out of your head.   If you can find a way to feel good and back on top, you will be back on top.

I'm massively disappointed that my companionship means so little to my friends.  As you can see in my previous post, they are one click away from solving this for me, and yet they just WON'T.  It is easier to make me the scapegoat because I am the one "creating" the problem, i.e. bringing it to light.  Honestly, I'm at a point where the most empowering thing I can do is to leave them all behind because I can do better than that and have friends who really care about my personal welfare enough that they won't run away with their tails between their legs.  I am horrified at the degree to which they are just letting him do this to me and shrugging and acting like they don't care.  If that's how they feel, good riddance, I'll find new friends.

I am also baffled that they say he is "not doing anything to me."  I also happen to know that my ex did all these same things to his other ex-girlfriend, whom he claimed was going to keep him prisoner as a sex slave and then murder him.  He is a total nut job and everyone knows it.  He is very well-versed in the law.  That's the thing -- by the time I challenge him, it's too late -- I'd already be in a situation that could have dire consequences for me, as far as my finances or my career.  I don't see why I should have to risk that much just to go for coffee with people.  At one point he told the Host that he was going to the county courthouse that very day to file against me, and for whatever reason he didn't.  That doesn't mean he won't next time.  He knows how, it's free, and it's been threatened multiple times now.

[adventurer]

I think the tools people use to deal with a BPD relationship you will need to deal with your friends.

Radical acceptance.

They can support you or not support you, treat you in a whatever way they are feeling, not treat you in the way you would like.

If you can give up your frustration and negative feelings about the way this social circle is treating you and just accept this is the way things are going to be for awhile, what sort of a future can you imagine?

Do you live in a place that uses meetup.com or other website to organize and find new social groups?

Do you have an android phone that can use google location services or some GPS type system so you can start recording your whereabouts at all times to help protect you from false allegations?

Can you use a bank card instead of cash, and start saving all of your receipts to help provide a record of your activities and movements to help protect you from false allegations?

Is there a different type of job you could do where you would feel less vulnerable?

[GreenEyedMonster]

These ARE the friends I met on a friend-finding website.  Almost everyone I have met on there has contributed to destroying my life somehow.  I'm a bit put off by them at the moment.  I just looked up some high school friends to get together because at least I know they have my back.

I could start recording my activities and whereabouts, but that's not the kind of stalking this guy claims.  He accuses me of things like "looking at him like a stalker" if I see him somewhere.  Yes, really.  Basically the whole thing revolves around activities with my friends.  If I just stay home I'll be fine, so long as there are no accidental run-ins.  He says he's fine with being in the same place with me as long as I don't look at him "wrong," etc.

I have a 10-year career in my field and I'm quite established with good pay.  Taking another job at this point would make $1000 to get a PPO look like a sneeze.  Then again, if my handsome lawyer 12-year ex comes back and gets back together with me, maybe I will blow this popsicle stand.  And get that PPO for free.  

I feel like I just want to be alone for a while and not worry so much about socializing.  I'm sick of meeting users who want me around to entertain them but don't want to offer any substance when hard things happen in life.

[stimpy]

This reminds me of a similar experience I had with my exgfuBPD, and it went on for 6 months. She was fantastically cruel, goading me, trying to manipulate me, trying to get me to make a fool of myself, and then if I responded (twice only) she went out of her way to hurt me.

Nasty stuff, all of this in front of other people. All of it designed to provoke me and then humiliate me. But I only rose to it twice, and apart from that I ignored her. In the end, I left our little social group, and did other things, met other people, stayed away from her and the other people in the group. What happened. She gradually stopped going. I took myself out of harms way, and she lost her target. Later I returned and although she made a couple more appearances, she realised her power was gone. I showed I could be around her or I could be away from her and I was ok either way. I turned the tables, I showed her that her power was gone.

She tried so hard to push my buttons, for months and months. And she partly succeeded, but apart from those two occasions, I just ignored her.

Her stalking carried on for a few months as well, but again I just ignored her and now I have been totally free of her for about a month.

To me, in BPD terms, she was maintaining the attachment, and at the same time punishing me (or at least trying to) for not doing what she wanted. Is he doing the same thing? If he is and he can see you reacting, he will carry on doing it. He may even have ASPD tendancies, and is actually relishing this power struggle.

As for the friends you mention, well they sound more like acquantences, not true friends.

[ArleighBurke]

I have not been in this situation.

But from reading this thread I offer the following:
 - he is doing whatever he can to get a reaction out of you. And it works! I get you may be scared, but all he has are words. Stop giving him the power to abuse you - stop reacting.
 - you CAN'T ask your friends to solve this for you. You are asking them to "take sides" which they can't really do just on your say. The "evidence" they see is incomplete.
 - if he is threatening you with stalking, harassment, etc, then YOU need to start documenting everything as well. Start a diary. Document every interaction, every post you see, every letter, every conversation. *IF* it ever goes to court, these records can be gold.

It certainly must be difficult having to see him so often. But you can do this! Good luck.

[GreenEyedMonster]

To me, in BPD terms, she was maintaining the attachment, and at the same time punishing me (or at least trying to) for not doing what she wanted. Is he doing the same thing? If he is and he can see you reacting, he will carry on doing it. He may even have ASPD tendancies, and is actually relishing this power struggle.

I think that he is maintaining the attachment.  I remember when we were dating, he was volunteering at a local park.  He would sign up for his volunteer times on a sheet in the common room.  He got into this vicious rivalry with another volunteer over which times they got.  It was petty and ridiculous.  But you can bet I heard the update on it whenever we met.  He talked to me about it like I actually cared as much as he did whether he beat this guy.  I'm sure that this whole theater that he's doing now is really just a way to win this contest, as he sees it, and he will certainly lose interest when there is no more intrigue.  Not that I will be around to see it, because I'm done with all this.

The relationship dynamic with him is all about control.  He has to be the winner, he has to be the best, he has to get the last word.  Once he figures out that he finally got the last word, he will get bored.  This has been going on for a FULL YEAR now and he still has not let up.  He is quite narcissistic and it's as if beating people or challenging people gives him his missing sense of purpose in life. 

As for the friends you mention, well they sound more like acquantences, not true friends.

Thank you for saying this.  What I have wanted most today is just to be validated in my sense that I was violated by these people.  Most of them are friends I've made since my big breakup (from another man) three years ago.  They are not people I've known all my life or people who I have a lot of attachment to.  I mentioned in another thread that I was in a much better relationship for 12 years with a great guy who is still one of my best friends.  We had awesome mutual friends when we were together and I greatly miss that part of my life.  In fact, I spent today talking to my ex from that long relationship, and he is so supportive and empathetic toward me.  (I'd marry him in a heartbeat if he asked.)  He is just a great guy.

One of the things that I have discovered in my 30s is that loyalty is extremely important to me.  I abhor the idea that I exist for anyone's convenience.  Friends are there for you in thick and thin.  I am a fiercely loyal person with very strong ethics and I don't just sit on my backside and let people hurt my friends.  I'm not confrontational, but I'm not going to let them sit out in the cold helpless, either.  I texted my best friend today about what happened and her first response to me was telling me when she'd be available for a long phone call to talk it all out.  That is so much better than, "I don't want to be involved, so please don't talk to me about it."  When I consider someone a friend I will do almost anything for them, and I seem to be perpetually disappointed by humanity when people don't return that sentiment. 

I find that as I enter my 30s, many people are attracted to me for shallow reasons.  I am not attractive in the typical sense, so I got few men interested in me in my 20s.  Now that I'm in my 30s and have some assets and other women have aged out of their attractiveness, I have a lot of problems with people who are interested in me for the wrong reasons.  A lot of people want things to make their own lives easier without regard for the actual human connection; in other words, they're opportunists.  I'm really sick of being convenient but not worth much trouble.  The last few guys I've dated have bailed on me when I set any boundaries in the relationship.  With the first one, it was going on vacation without me for a week with other single women.  With the second one, he kept canceling dates with me and I got sick of eating frozen pizza at home alone on Friday night.  With the third one, he literally refused to stop swearing and telling lewd jokes in front of my family.  I'm not worth giving up those things, really?  I think that's been really hard on my self-esteem.  I'm not worth bringing on vacation, giving up some cuss words, and keeping your promises?  I deserve so much better than that.  But I can't find it . . .

Thanks to anyone who has read this far and listened to me vent.  Being validated means the world to me today.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I have not been in this situation.

But from reading this thread I offer the following:
 - he is doing whatever he can to get a reaction out of you. And it works! I get you may be scared, but all he has are words. Stop giving him the power to abuse you - stop reacting.
 - you CAN'T ask your friends to solve this for you. You are asking them to "take sides" which they can't really do just on your say. The "evidence" they see is incomplete.
 - if he is threatening you with stalking, harassment, etc, then YOU need to start documenting everything as well. Start a diary. Document every interaction, every post you see, every letter, every conversation. *IF* it ever goes to court, these records can be gold.

It certainly must be difficult having to see him so often. But you can do this! Good luck.

A couple clarifications.  I haven't seen him since February, and the time before that was in October.  October was the last time I spoke to him.  Every time he comes around again, he tells people I'm not stalking him and he's fine with seeing me.  Then he sees me, I become a psycho stalker again, and the whole thing starts over.  This is now the THIRD cycle.

My friends have personally witnessed his antics and had previously offered to act as witnesses in court for my side because it was so evident that he was harassing me.  I am sick of going through this cycle because one day it will end in him acting on all his threats.  Unfortunately, he has quite a bit more than words, because it is easy in my county to smear someone's reputation and give them a record that can keep them from being employed.  This happened to a good friend of mine.  If you go back to the first couple posts, I explained my one friend's role as Host as how he has certain obligations and rights that come with that.  While I can understand some of the others' reluctance to get involved, the leader's refusal is particularly frustrating.  He has seen my documented evidence and even received some of the threats himself from my ex.  If anyone knows what I am dealing with, it is the Host.

I'm in 3-4 similar groups and every other leader has offered to remove my ex from the group for my safety.  Just this one says that I'm "harassing" him by even asking.  Even today when I signed off from some of the other groups for the last time, one of the other leaders contacted me because he wanted to follow up on the harassment and do something about it.  My core group of friends is conspicuously indifferent to my welfare.

[JSF13]

Hey Greeneyedmonster. I know exactly how you feel. My ex is so manipulative that she literally destroyed most of my friendships while we were together. She absolutely wrecked things for me. Most of the people ended up seeing her for what she was in the end but some have not and I find it incredibly frustrating that "Friends" of mine who know what I lived through and how much she hurt me have chosen her or played "Switzerland". I recently made a post on one of my socials about what happened to Loyalty amongst friends that they don't friend someone who has severely hurt you. Im sorry you are going thru this. I know how aggravating it is.

[GreenEyedMonster]

. . . "Friends" of mine who know what I lived through and how much she hurt me have chosen her or played "Switzerland". I recently made a post on one of my socials about what happened to Loyalty amongst friends that they don't friend someone who has severely hurt you. Im sorry you are going thru this. I know how aggravating it is.

Thanks JSF13.  A little empathy goes a long way today.  Loyalty is a really rare trait, I think.  The ironic thing is that most of my friends recognize that I am actually being harassed and recognize that my ex is mentally ill, but refuse to take any action to protect me.  They say they "know" that he will not carry out any of his threats.  I'd like to know which Magic 8 Ball they're shaking.  It's wishful thinking, really, because they just don't want to do anything about it.

[JSF13]

. . . "Friends" of mine who know what I lived through and how much she hurt me have chosen her or played "Switzerland". I recently made a post on one of my socials about what happened to Loyalty amongst friends that they don't friend someone who has severely hurt you. Im sorry you are going thru this. I know how aggravating it is.

Thanks JSF13.  A little empathy goes a long way today.  Loyalty is a really rare trait, I think.  The ironic thing is that most of my friends recognize that I am actually being harassed and recognize that my ex is mentally ill, but refuse to take any action to protect me.  They say they "know" that he will not carry out any of his threats.  I'd like to know which Magic 8 Ball they're shaking.  It's wishful thinking, really, because they just don't want to do anything about it.

My ex when she isn't getting her supply from her current TWO relationships tries to recycle me. I don't give in ever but she recently said she was going to come here (3k miles away). The fear I have of her is insane. I'm not afraid of much but she is the most terrifying thing to me ever. I'll never forget us being at one of the doctors once and her laughing saying "you see my 200 lb jacked boyfriend? Tattooed to his jaw? He fears nothing but he is scared sh*tless of me" and laughed. She wasn't kidding. Idk why she or they obsess over those who genuinely loved them and caused no harm. She has not only destroyed my life for her amusement but continues to try and make my life hard and force her way into it

[GreenEyedMonster]

She has not only destroyed my life for her amusement but continues to try and make my life hard and force her way into it

Why is it that people think that if they don't physically hurt you, they aren't really hurting you at all?  I can't even begin to tell you the psychological toll all these threats have taken on me.  I have an anxiety disorder to begin with and this just adds fuel to the fire.  I hate having to think about being watched all the time and how what I say or do will be perceived.  The idea that if I make one wrong move, it will cost me thousands of dollars and possibly a future career with my masters degree is enough to give me an ulcer.  I can't just stand up to him and find out whether or not he's for real.  My experience on these boards tells me that too often the threats are very real.  They really do want to ruin your life, and follow through.

My ex is 5'9" and would blow over in a strong wind, and yet he is one of the phantoms I imagine being in my house with me when I'm alone and scared.  I could bench press him, and he is the scariest thing that could show up on my doorstep.

[JSF13]

She has not only destroyed my life for her amusement but continues to try and make my life hard and force her way into it

Why is it that people think that if they don't physically hurt you, they aren't really hurting you at all?  I can't even begin to tell you the psychological toll all these threats have taken on me.  I have an anxiety disorder to begin with and this just adds fuel to the fire.  I hate having to think about being watched all the time and how what I say or do will be perceived.  The idea that if I make one wrong move, it will cost me thousands of dollars and possibly a future career with my masters degree is enough to give me an ulcer.  I can't just stand up to him and find out whether or not he's for real.  My experience on these boards tells me that too often the threats are very real.  They really do want to ruin your life, and follow through.

My ex is 5'9" and would blow over in a strong wind, and yet he is one of the phantoms I imagine being in my house with me when I'm alone and scared.  I could bench press him, and he is the scariest thing that could show up on my doorstep.

I'm 5'10. My Ex is 5'4. She did Physically attack me 4 times. My fear is she is so manipulative that she will cause me serious issues like she already has but worse. I posted in another thread today about this. Have you seen the movie "Gone Girl"? My ex bragged to her t's and doctors, hospital workers when tey sectioned her after 2 suicide attempts that she thought the girl in that movie was genius for what she did to her husband setting him up  for her fake murder and would laugh. Thought it was comical. Everyone I knwo who has seen that movie said it made them so uncomfortable and yet she found comfort in it. She could relate. How terrifying is that?

[GreenEyedMonster]

My friends actually fully acknowledge that this person is stalking me, but are coming up with a litany of reasons that they can't do anything about it, or why it's not their problem.  In most cases the evidence is against their assumptions. 

The friend (er, former friend) who is the main cause of all this drama is a major "see no evil" type who wants to hide under his bed at the mention of any conflict.  He is using a sort of literal interpretation of his own past statements to justify his non-involvement.  Like, that it's bad if my ex confronts me at the gathering, but as long as he confronts me with a list of all my bad behavior immediately afterwards out of sight, I should feel perfectly safe attending a gathering.  Seriously?  Seriously.

I feel a certain sense of relief, however, to be done with this forever.  I like the idea that my ex can't find me at all now, can't make any more accusations, and probably deserves these people he's ending up with.

[stimpy]

I read somewhere, (maybe on this site, I can't remember) that a key element in recovery after a relationship with a BPD/NPD/ASPD person, is to go NC and then to surround yourself with healthy people. Healthy as in normal, well adjusted, empathetic, considerate human beings. I also read that after a relationship with a personality disordered person that the non can come out so disorientated and hurt, that they can be preyed upon again!

I dumped two of my "friends" a few short months after my ex discarded me. Both were invalidating to me and both were a waste of time. I am so glad I did. On chatting to my other friends subsequently, most said that they were both odd balls and both were very controlling personalities. How right they were! So my instincts and gut feel were right.

Just wondering GEM, do you think this is a process you are going through now?

Each of us handles a break up differently. But I think the advice I received about concentrating on the good people, the healthy people, as a key step on the road back to normality is wise. Speaking for myself, I'd say I'm not back to normal 100% but I am getting accustomed to normal living, predictability, improving my self esteem and for me being with good people has been key to this.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Just wondering GEM, do you think this is a process you are going through now?

I think that I am going through a growing process for sure.  As a kid I was always sort of an oddball.  I was bullied in school, not considered attractive . . . that kid who got to the end of the lunch line and wondered who would put up with me for 20 minutes while I ate.  That kid is still somewhere inside adult me, and so is my tendency to hold on to someone, anyone who will like me, no matter how they treat me.  I never had the luxury of having boundaries or demanding respect from people.  I never got to ask for what I needed.  :)oing so was too risky because the result might be ending up alone.  Better to put up with crap.

I feel like I have stuffed my own needs somewhere deep and dark inside for so long that it takes me a while to realize that a person is bad for me -- either a friend or romantic partner.  In my first relationship, I got along so well and my needs were met so well that it was never an issue; we were just compatible in that sense.  But after the breakup, it set me back a few paces and I got back to that desperate kid place again.  I settled for friends and romantic partners who didn't meet my needs.  My exBPD was one of them.  I think I am learning more and more that a warm body to fill a space can be more of a liability than just being happy by myself.  I am careful who I trust with my hopes and dreams now, and much more emotionally independent.  I see myself now as being in more of a place of power, where there are many people out there to choose from, so I have the luxury of choosing wisely and carefully.

I feel like this experience with my friends has really just been another of those bumps in the road.  It has given me an opportunity to consider what kinds of qualities I want in the people I surround myself with.  In this case, loyalty is very important.  I am a fiercely loyal person with high ethics about my responsibilities in a relationship.  Spending my time with people who don't share these qualities inevitably ends up with me being used.  I really can afford to let those people go.  There is always someone who will let me sit at their table  

Part of me is resentful right now because I have no doubt that I would have done more for these people than they would have for me, even if I couldn't have fixed the problem for them.  I would have at very least validated them, and maybe tried to take some decisive action to help.  I wouldn't have thrown up my hands and walked away.

[stimpy]

I am careful who I trust with my hopes and dreams now, and much more emotionally independent.  I see myself now as being in more of a place of power, where there are many people out there to choose from, so I have the luxury of choosing wisely and carefully.

I agree 100% and I wish you well