No win validation

[snowmonkey]

Hi all,

I flit from wanting to save this relationship to wanting out. But this topic seems more about wanting to save it, so I've posted here:

How do I validate when the things she is asking me to validate are completely ridiculous. I am being asked to accept all responsibility for the break-up, I've been asked to write a letter specifically apologising for things that either never happened or happened in a completely different way than she sees them. I am being told to own my sh*t and accept responsibility for my actions when I've done far more for her than anyone else since I've known her and have been abused and used by her for so long.

It is not even good enough to say that I am sorry you feel hurt by my actions or words. Indeed, if I use any language whatsoever that talks about her feelings then she rejects my words outright. If she feels that I am not categorically accepting all blame and if imply at all that it is her feelings or interpretation of events that have caused her to feel the way she does then her anger intensifies even further.

To make matters even worse, EVERYTHING I say will be twisted and changed within a matter of minutes and have new meanings attached to them.

My choice is simply to cower down under her anger and validate her completely insane point of view or to JADE or to go NC and watch her begin her idealisation of another man.

I feel I am in a no win situation. Does anybody have advice?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

I know how incredibly frustrating that situation can be. I felt completely hopeless about my relationship when I was dealing with that type of behavior.

It is not even good enough to say that I am sorry you feel hurt by my actions or words. Indeed, if I use any language whatsoever that talks about her feelings then she rejects my words outright. If she feels that I am not categorically accepting all blame and if imply at all that it is her feelings or interpretation of events that have caused her to feel the way she does then her anger intensifies even further.

Can you give us an example of one of these types of discussions? It might make it easier for us to understand exactly what you're going through and better advise.

My choice is simply to cower down under her anger and validate her completely insane point of view or to JADE or to go NC and watch her begin her idealisation of another man.

I'm pretty sure that you have other options than those listed. In the WORKSHOPS section, there are several tools discussed to help effectively communicate. Have you tried any of those?

[MapleBob]

Oh boy, I've been there.

As Meili said, there are other communication options; those links are solid.

For my advice, I'd say that you should dig down and try to find something that you can be accountable for. You don't have to fall on your sword if you don't want to, but validating that your actions caused her reactions is probably the way to go. Her reactions are likely inflated - and maybe even ridiculous by any sane person's standards - but they are real to her. If I had it all to do again with my uBPDex, I would have validated a lot earlier, instead of trying to convince/teach her that her reactions were extreme, invalid, or wrong. You can't negate the feelings that led to a breakup/breakdown by proving that they were wrong.

She's not refuting that you've "done far more for her than anyone else since I've known her", and this discussion cannot be about her abusive behaviors (not yet anyway). You're simply trying to slow her roll at this point so that she doesn't bail outright.

[ArleighBurke]

How do I validate when the things she is asking me to validate are completely ridiculous.
It is not even good enough to say that I am sorry you feel hurt by my actions or words. ... .if I imply at all that it is her feelings or interpretation of events that have caused her to feel the way she does then her anger intensifies even further.

So where are you in your understanding of validation?

You validate HER FEELINGS - not yours or her ACTIONS.

Which is difficult!

My BPDw also took great offence when I used to tell her that her reaction to an event was because of HER thoughts/values/etc. That kind of statement is invalidating (but true!). Remember: her feelings = facts. And she can't accept that she has control or influence over her own emotions, because then she is responsible for them.

Like when someone speeds past you and cuts you off in traffic. You can feel annoyed, pissed off etc if you believe that they are an idiot. But if you find out that they are speeding to the hospital with a very injured passenger - your reaction/feelings are very different. I tried to point out to my BPDw that her values or fundamental beliefs dictated how she felt when someone cut her off. And that if she changed her beliefs, then her reaction/feelings would change. I tried that logic for about 1 year before giving up. So if she feels annoyed, you validate by saying you understand how being cutoff would make you feel annoyed. You don't agree that he was an idiot - better to not comment or be uncommital.

When she says eg "you never loved me. You always just wanted to go out with your friends". You validate her *feelings* - you are not agreeing with her facts. You are saying in your mind "*IF* the facts you say are true, then I do understand how you feel that". (Sometimes even assuming the facts I still don't understand how she feels X - but you still need to validate - or ask more questions to try to find the link). "Wow - you must have felt very alone", "I'm sorry I made you feel unloved". With practive, try the SET method - it allows you to validate, then speak your own "truth".

[snowmonkey]

Thanks for your responses, I had read through the lessons and thought that I'd practised them. I've tried to use SET extensively but on recommendations of my therapist, I've often dropped the truth part of SET and just practised SE, the truth just agitated and provoked her too much. Now, however I'm finding that the SE part is not working either.

So, an example;

This morning (which is a whole other story that I'll put in another thread), my exBPDgf says to me at 10am, you promised you would help me write a letter to my landlord this morning. The facts are;

(i) I never promised any such thing
(ii) I was running VERY late for work
(iii) Two days earlier I spent an hour or so drafting such an email which she decided she would not send.

So, when she tells me that I had promised to do this for her, I say that I'm very sorry that she is so stressed about contacting her landlord and that I understand that this is causing her to be very anxious and that I would help her again at a later time as I had done previously.

However, this is not good enough for her. She demands that I accept that it is my fault. That I admit that I broke another promise to her and that I've let her down again.

How should I have handled this situation?
 

[ArleighBurke]

I only did the S and E parts of SET for a while as well - and it didn't work for me. I'm slowly getting better. The last time I did the whole SET was fantastic.

It sounds like you handled it well. Definitely S and E. I guess the T on the end would be "I'm very sorry that you are so stressed about contacting your landlord and I understand that this is causing you to be very anxious. I'm sorry - I don't remember saying i'd help you today, and I can't now because I need to go to work, however I would help you again at <definite time>."

Perhaps this is slightly wrong, because you are not saying you DIDN'T say it. Instead you are just saying you don't REMEMBER saying it - so you are NOT telling her she is wrong. But this is less confrontational.

I also think saying a definite time you will help (if you can) is helpful. Specifics are good.

In the past for a situation like this I would also feel guilty - because I knew that she needed help and I didn't make sure she had it sorted - but I've learnt from this site that I need to let her take responsibility. If it's her issue then SHE needs to drive it and be responsible. If she misses the deadline - she can try to blame me all she wants, but it's not up to me to manage her to-do list.

[Meili]

In the past for a situation like this I would also feel guilty - because I knew that she needed help and I didn't make sure she had it sorted - but I've learnt from this site that I need to let her take responsibility. If it's her issue then SHE needs to drive it and be responsible. If she misses the deadline - she can try to blame me all she wants, but it's not up to me to manage her to-do list.

This is very true. We cannot take on their responsibilities for them. They are adults and need to have both the rewards and consequences for their actions. If we do not allow that to happen, we become doormats and end up being disrespected, used, and hurt. It's really just a healthy boundary to have.