Frustrated trying to talk to him

[amae]

Im frustrated trying to get my husband to treat me fairly.  I don't think he has BPD, I think he has antisocial PD or narcisstic PD or some combination of some kind of PD and other issues including some substance problems and possibly ADHD.  He abuses me emotionally, constantly.  Twice he has been physically abusive, not recently.  I can't talk to him, he won't listen. No matter how calm and careful I am if I say anything to him other than "What a wonderful man you are please let me do anything and everything you want," he yells at me and tells me I am abusing him.  I am not.  I considered it too just in case I was, seriously, because I wouldn't want to hurt him.  He makes things up that I supposedly did that were unfair to him that I never did.  He lies.  He interrupts me.  He yells at me.  He puts me down and insults me cruelly.  He won't let me tell him how anything he did affects me (unless I say Thank you for being so good to me... .which isnt true... .rarely he is). 

The list of ways he deliberately hurts me is very long.  I don't have money to leave.  I have 5 dogs I love very much whose home would be disrupted or worse.  And I have worked really hard under tough circumstances to make this home and don't want to just walk away.  I have lost a huge amount of love for him but there is still a little bit left. 

I have tons more story.  He wants to refuse to pay lot rent to his sister whose land our house is on.  She said she will evict us. I tried talking to him and he told me that it "isn't any of my concern."  Yet he talked to his grown son who doesn't live here about this with ordinary normal respect. 

I don't know what to do.  I am going to pay the lot rent of course.  I can't keep living this way.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

Being abused is a horrible thing to endure, I'm sorry that you're having to go through all of that. There are a lot of great tools here to help you, great people who will listen and provide advice, and you can read what others have experienced to help make sense of all of it.

ASPD, NPD, and BPD all fall under the heading of Cluster B disorders. They are spectrum disorders, so it's conceivable that he falls somewhere along the spectrum and have traits of multiple disorders. Substance abuse can certainly intensify things for a disordered person and make things much worse for the non.

Here is a short video on ENDING CONFLICT that might help.

How long have you been together, and how long has he been acting this way?

[amae]

Thank you.  Thank you for the link too.  I haven't looked at it yet but I will when I finish replying. 
I understand some things about personality disorders but not enough.  I am trying to end the conflict and have been for a long time.  I'm 63, he's 53 years old.  We have been together for seven years and married for almost two years.  He has been very difficult to deal with for about five years, before that we had some different circumstances, I had a very badly broken leg that had not been fully repaired or healed, and he has a bad back.  When I was able to do more ... .household work, outside the house work... .I did.  I still do.  He doesn't even try to help with things he can do, there are plenty.  He just abdicates every responsibility.  He plays video games.  He lies in bed or sits in his recliner.  He watches me struggle hard and volunteers nothing.  If I ask he finds fault with me.  I have tried so hard to somehow get "us" to work well together and he just keeps refusing.  According to him I mistreat him.  He means I ask him to help me.  He finds anything he can to pick my pleas for help apart and make it all my fault.  If there is nothing wrong with how I ask he finds fault with what I asked.  If he can't find anything at all he lies.  He manipulates.  He insults me.  Forbid I have ever said or done anything even slightly off in any way he will never ever let me forget it. He can do no wrong and I am not "allowed" to complain about anything he says or does to me no matter how outrageous.
  I am not perfect.  I get frustrated.  I have lost my temper with him.  I don't do that anymore but no matter how I approach him he just won't work with me.  On us or on any of our issues.  I was really hurt when he told me I don't count.   He literally said that.  I'm not overly surprised he feels that way but it's a new low that he just said it plain out.
I have gone to counseling at the Family Justice center... and it did help me understand things better.   I realize there is very little hope he's going to change anything and he may get worse.  Even physical.  He has twice before but it was a good while ago, more than a year.

[amae]

I listened to the video.  I have tried similar but again I'm not perfect and it is so hard to respond to him with empathy when he deliberately abuses me.  Even when I do tell him I understand his pain and don't intend to cause him more he still just hurts me any way he can.  I have tried really hard to appropriately ask him to stop doing that.   He tells me that that... .asking him to stop insulting me etc... .that is me abusing him.
I asked him about an hour ago if he's willing to try talking with me again.  He said he had only had two sips of coffee.  He said this with cruelty... .like I'm asking for something obviously completely unreasonable.  Even though he's been out of bed drinking coffee for two and a half hours.
I asked him when he thought would be a good time.  Maybe I shouldn't have asked him that.  I don't know.  He was even worse.  More sarcastic put downs.  I said I want to know when he might be willing to talk so I don't have to keep asking, he said nothing.  Nothing. 
It's been 40 minutes or so since then.  I'm not waiting for him to be ready, obviously he doesn't want to talk.  But he's ensconsed in his royal chair commenting happily to me about somebody singing on TV etc.  And he knows what he's doing.  He knows he's not being fair to me.  He's hurting me on purpose.

I'm going to start tryng to figure out how to leave him without causing myself incredible harm.  I haven't done this before because I can't.  More long story.  I have physical problems, ovbiously emotional investment in my home, five dogs to try not to hurt and/ or take some and/or how... .?, then economic problems.  I have no money at all.  I have no transportation and don't drive.  I don't know anybody who will help me.  Everybody I know has similar physical and economic problems.  The women's shelter is full locally.  They might be able to get me a shelter room 400 miles away.  This all is why I haven't already left.

[schwing]

Hi Amae,

Im frustrated trying to get my husband to treat me fairly. 

How do one "get" anyone to treat us fairly?

He abuses me emotionally, constantly.  Twice he has been physically abusive, not recently.  I can't talk to him, he won't listen. No matter how calm and careful I am if I say anything to him other than "What a wonderful man you are please let me do anything and everything you want," he yells at me and tells me I am abusing him.  I am not.  I considered it too just in case I was, seriously, because I wouldn't want to hurt him.  He makes things up that I supposedly did that were unfair to him that I never did.  He lies. 

You might consider that he is using you as a surrogate for whomever in his life has abused him. Why else would he constantly abuse you emotionally?  Why else would he accuse you of abusing him?  It's not that he's "making things up" but rather he cannot get over some kind of injury from his past, like someone suffering from PTSD.

Maybe he lies.  Maybe his entire perspective (as it relates to you) is completely distorted.

I don't have money to leave.  I have 5 dogs I love very much whose home would be disrupted or worse.  And I have worked really hard under tough circumstances to make this home and don't want to just walk away.  I have lost a huge amount of love for him but there is still a little bit left. 

You see, this is why he continues to do what he is doing. Because he can. And because what he does is working for him.

He wants to refuse to pay lot rent to his sister whose land our house is on.  She said she will evict us. I tried talking to him and he told me that it "isn't any of my concern."  ... .  I am going to pay the lot rent of course. 

Perhaps he refused to pay his sister because he expected that you might, which would only make you less likely to be in a position to change your circumstances.

I'm going to start tryng to figure out how to leave him without causing myself incredible harm.  I haven't done this before because I can't.  More long story.  I have physical problems, ovbiously emotional investment in my home, five dogs to try not to hurt and/ or take some and/or how... .?, then economic problems.  I have no money at all.  I have no transportation and don't drive.  I don't know anybody who will help me.  Everybody I know has similar physical and economic problems.  The women's shelter is full locally.  They might be able to get me a shelter room 400 miles away.  This all is why I haven't already left.

You might start by trying to gather whatever resources might be available to you.  The local women's shelter may be full. But is there perhaps an Alanon group (even though your husband might not be an alcoholic, the dynamics are quite similar) or a CoDA -codependents anonymous- group?  If you leave him without outside support, you might end up feeling like you have no choice but to return.

Even by spending small bits of time away from your husband will help you build your resolve; it will help you gather ideas of how life might be away from him.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[amae]

All you pointed out is good advice I really need to hear. 
 
I would once have expected that someone who says they love me would treat me fairly, not use me, or at least listen to me if they didn't already understand what I wanted from them.  Wow how clear it is that isn't necessarily true. 

It is true his mom hurt him.  She hurts everybody.  I have a strong suspicion based on several things she and other people have said and she abused him sexually.  Also he acts a lot like her and what he does sure does hurt me... .and I am a grown woman.   I have also been on the receiving end of her manipulations and abuse.  She seems to have destroyed him, of course I feel empathy.   

I have given him lots of empathy... .tons of empathy.  He's a bottomless pit though and I'm only human.  He does not respect any limits I set with him.  I just can't live like this.  I have feelings too... .not just him.   But I'm stuck in several ways.  Money, people support, I can't even pack and carry my own things without help so I struggle through every day just for normal living.  We don't have enough money both of us combined to meet all the bills and have much separate money left over so we don't have separate finances.

Obviously something needs to change and no, he won't so I have to.   

There aren't many social services available here.  No codependent groups within 35 or so miles.  No one is going to travel 70+/- miles to get me back and forth to one.  Al Anon is a really good idea.  I will see what I can find out about that tomorrow.   

I do appreciate the encouragement.  This message board and all the good advice on this site is a really good thing for me.   

[heartandwhole]

Hi amae,

I'd like to add my welcome to you. I'm sorry to hear that you feel trapped and unable to leave this relationship that appears to be taking such a toll on you. I can relate to feeling so drained and like pwBPD was a bottomless pit of need. Sometimes I felt like I lost myself in his needs and demands.

I agree with Schwing, in that what will help you most is some time outside of the relationship. I understand that is hard for you, given the limitations that you've shared. Even tiny steps can add up to a big journey, though. In my opinion, you could really benefit from a perspective that is not entwined with your partner right now. Just to help see things a bit more clearly; then you can take whatever action feels appropriate for you. When we are "in it," it is often so hard to see how things have crystalized into dysfunctional patterns. Stepping "out" for a bit, talking with others, engaging with people with a different perspective or experience in this kind of situation can help tremendously.

You have already taken those steps by joining here.  So you ARE moving toward change.

We'll walk with you as you get a little more momentum going. I know the idea of leaving feels momentous and almost impossible at times, but I bet you can find one step that you can take every day in the direction of self-care, no matter how small. They do add up.

Any news on AA?

heartandwhole