Advice please I'm a mess

[Larmoyant]

I've been posting about this on the detaching board where I've been for months now working my way through this whole painful experience. It's been 7 months, but my ex and I are still in contact via text. He texts me every week with something or other. The latest being some money I promised him for a holiday he took me on 2 years ago. I deposited some money into his bank on Monday but didn't text him as I've been trying to detach. This is what he sent last night:

Him: “I have moved on. Don’t worry about the money. I am struggling but it won’t make much difference. Say hi to (one of my sons). He’s a good person. Please say to him from me “be yourself and let the world be as it is”. I very rarely lie and I didn’t to you. I’m very sorry. More than you’ll ever know. Goodbye. X”

Me: "Thanks, but I'll repay you. It will take some time that's all"

Him: "Whatever. Please say what I said to Ben and note the quotes".

Me: "I don't understand what it means"

Him: "He might".

Me: "Ok. What are you sorry for?"

Then he went completely silent. I don't understand and feel very upset. I slept really badly and posted this morning that I feel conflicted. On the one hand I want him back, but feel he should make the effort. I simply asked him a question,"why are you sorry?" and he's gone silent. Why the silence? This strongly suggests that he's just playing games with me, but I can't quite accept that. I'm so confused (2) I have this nagging voice saying 'run', leave it behind, concentrate on your own life and get it back on track. I'm back to square 1 and frozen. What shall I do now. Can anyone help me please?

[Lilyroze]

 Larmoyant,

Before we proceed can I ask you a few questions heart to heart?

I have read your threads and can relate to a few and could have been the one writing some. Collapsed on the floor, in tears, in pain, hurting, needing or wanting the love and support from the one I loved. Worse to watch them support  and soothe others and not me when all we had. Though this is not about me, I just wanted you to relate. For various reasons I chose to not share much of that.

Now you have the choice to go forward past the pain now heal, go LC, NC, be friends possibly or maybe start anew.

I am approaching this carefully as it is in your hands the end result. What is best for you, your long term goals, your love life and your future.

I even read the incidents you had with him, the abuse and well the other women. No one here nor you can heal or fix him or guarantee those things would stop. So when you asked a few questions on possible if to continue, how to respond or what you wanted, I give you pause.

Now do you love him or lust? Do you have a higher power? What is the end result you want? Do you think you can accept him back if he wanted to come back? Do you think he is working on change or not?

The reason I ask is in all this he has at least been kind enough to not give the silent treatment, that is deadly to your heart, body and soul.

I personally thought the quote to your son was very sweet, and caring. Does he seem to care about your son? Do you think he loves you?

Then lets proceed. If alright with you.

[Larmoyant]

Hi Lilyroze,

Now do you love him or lust? Do you have a higher power? What is the end result you want? Do you think you can accept him back if he wanted to come back? Do you think he is working on change or not?

In an ideal world I would like him and I to talk it through. Both accept our role, take responsibility, have a mature conversation, not for him to just go silent on me. I do love him despite everything, but I also believe I'm trauma bonded. I'd like to see if we could salvage something, but then I look back on what can only be described as emotional abuse and it frightens me.

The reason I ask is in all this he has at least been kind enough to not give the silent treatment, that is deadly to your heart, body and soul.

But, he has gone silent now? I asked him "why are you sorry?" and he withdrew from the conversation. Was that the wrong question to ask?

I personally thought the quote to your son was very sweet, and caring. Does he seem to care about your son? Do you think he loves you?

I think he needs me on some level, but yes I think he loves me too. I'm not sure if he cares about my son or not he never had much to do with either of my boys. He doesn't get close to many people, only me and his three kids.

Thank you lilyroze

[Lilyroze]

Well lets look at this and walk through it.

First of all no he has not given you the silent treatment. He texted you last night, yes went silent after but he told you he moved on. His silence could mean many things but not the silent treatment. Here is why you have been in LC this whole time with texts. Silence for one day is not silent treatment, that is going in the man cave, or nothing more to say "I moved on", or letting you find the meaning in what he said. Or not wanting it to end in fight or drama.  He gave the quote to your son and wanted it for him. Whatever the reason.

So don't panic over that silent treatment I would think you both are in LC or now NC if he or you want as he "moved on".

Don't worry about the quote, as much as choose whether to look at it as a gift to your son or not. If your son liked and valued him or his thoughts then you can give your son the message to know he was thought of or cared about and leave it there. There is someone my son looked up to and valued, hung on a lot of his wisdom and words. Something like that would mean the world to him and I. A version of that did happen to a point, but then son let down later when wrote to no response but silent treatment.

Now if you think and from what you said yes you were dealing with emotional abuse, sometimes that is worse then physical. I wrote a post on here you can search to show you what stage you are in if DV abuse. The stages are different then leaving a normal relationship. That might help you decide more of where you are at, and what you want to do.

You have your goals to think of. You put off things, but now can go forward and do them. If you did or have your goals planned, do you see where he could be part of them and supportive going forward? Or do you see where you would have to go alone if you wanted to pursue those goals.

Due to your FOO and trauma bonds and his issues as well as the world no there is no perfect world. But you can make it what you want. Meaning your plans, goals, and love. Love for yourself, children and if you chose to put him in the equation and he is willing then him. Since the post is about you and questions of him.

The voice telling you to run is it your gut, your higher power, do you need to listen to it to be safe? To go forward? Don't be afraid to listen to the voice and do best for you?

Or is the voice fear? Fear that now you have some tools to see what you did wrong, tools to maybe have handled things different with him, tools to help you set your bar of expectations of no verbal or abuse. Tools to see what he did wrong and was not acceptable. The learning that would teach you both how to work with counseling and each other to validate and be there if true love.

With knowledge comes power. So learning these things you will never be the same. You will be stronger, wiser, loving yourself and others more, less criticism and more listening to understand even for yourself and the small voice within.

Abuse is for the weak minded who want power over another, or scared, or people at primitive levels of treating others. People who have disorder etc. The one common factor in the whole world that unites women of all different cultures, status, financial status, education levels, emotional levels, race, religions is DV.

I nor you can guarantee he is working on that, seeing that, or will change, or has not moved on.

What I can guarantee is he has still tried to reach out in the best way he could and tried to still be there. Only you know if it is for abuse, control, to hurt, or to try to care and be a friend. Only you know if he is working on his issues or if he can change. A leopard doesn't change his spots but a man or woman can learn, grow and change if they desire to.

If you both could talk and take accountability for your parts in is this someone you love and want in your life as a friend or a relationship? Again do you think he is working on change. Not your perception of him, have you noticed he is trying in his way.

I have had to learn and remember the different love languages, how people perceive things, emotional vs logical brain and how you need both.

With limited contact you don't know. But you might be able to  look at the other side of the coin and realize men speak and think different at times. Men are from Mars women from Venus. At times his pointing things out he felt you did maybe were in anger, or wanting you to accept your part as well. Not sure only you know if abuse and control or hurt and anger. Only you know if he is capable of trying, learning and giving you love with you both working on.

So tell me your thoughts?

[Larmoyant]

Lilyroze, thank you for walking through this with me.

It makes sense that this isn’t silent treatment, and that he has simply withdrawn from the conversation, but I’m still left hanging, not knowing what that silence means. It doesn’t feel right. If he has really moved on this time then he could have reiterated that, said he doesn’t want to discuss anything anymore. I’d be fine with that surprisingly, hurt, sad, disappointed, but then it’s clear. I will have no choice but to move on which is better than sitting, waiting, hoping. The thing is he’s told me many, many times that he’s ‘moved on’ only to contact me again and again. It’s confusing so I don’t know whether or not to believe it this time.

My problem is I keep holding on, waiting, and for what? Seven months ago he went too far. I’d had enough and left, but really I’ve just been waiting. Strong enough not to go back for more of the same, but waiting for a change. Waiting for him to come around, say ok, let’s talk, let’s resolve this. He initially wanted to talk, I was willing, but he sabotaged it causing me more pain. Yet he still didn't go away.

He keeps in contact for silly reasons and I’ve been withdrawing more and more because I’m trying to protect myself from any more pain. Yet, I do believe he’s been trying. Why else keep contacting me?

However, if I was to take the initiative right now and suggest we talk he’d likely drop me on my head, reject me, tell me it’s over. He’d hurt me because he likes hurting me. Then he’d just turn around and make contact all over again. So I can’t take the initiative. I cannot risk that kind of pain anymore. It’s caused too much damage already.

My thoughts now as I’m gathering them are:

1.   Leave it. Leave him with my question “What are you sorry about” and if he comes back with an answer go from there. In the meantime, try, try to get on with my life.
2.   Write to him, take what he says as real, that he has moved on, request that he doesn’t contact me again, wish him well and don’t look back.

What do you think? Does this make sense?

[Lilyroze]

Well L, this is your life and what is best for you. ":)rinking a Cup of Tea, I Stop the War"

So here is a gift from the Universe L, open the box slowly do you see it? It is limitless, it is beautiful, and it is the key to the Universe yours. Also I sent you a tiny box on top, with a smaller one inside.

The next box is your power, the third box well patience. ( I am never good with that, so don't let me fool you with this part). If you are better then me, then you will be doing great.

So do you see the beauty in your statement of you waited 7 months for change and well it is not here. You are thinking of moving on but wanted things to change. Do you see the magic here? Including the possibility of him or not him.

Do you also see things changed in your relationship? Possibility a change for real good change either way?

[Lilyroze]

L,

One more thought I would like to leave you with is the power to make things better for you are within you. Have you thought of, if given the tools and the fact in any relationship you will no longer accept things, can this work for your future and your goals?

Do you even want it any more? Do you just want closure? If just closure then he gave that to you today. If you want more the choice has to be within you to see what you want.

Also what you both can do to make it work.

Would he be able to support your dreams and goals with love? Or would you have to do without him?

Do you see where there was any part you could have done different? Do you think he is changing or can?

I know I asked those but remember if he does have a hard time saying sorry or accepting responsibility. Maybe just saying sorry was his way. I am not saying right or wrong. I finally have learned that we all say things in different ways. It is the working on that to see from someone else's point of view. I was always raised to do that, say I am sorry even if didn't do anything. So thought I always did, no at times I didn't see or hear from a person says things different then me. Many times we were on the same page or simple misunderstandings, that could be solved so quick and most were.  Of all people my son who thinks like someone I love thinks pointed that out to me.

Just running this by but none excuses the emotional abuse if you feel he couldn't change that with you both working on it.

See my son is very logical and pointed out some things I could have did different, and that a certain way something I said could have been taken wrong. We all have ways to look what we did to make things worse or how we could make things better.

Just wanted to give you some more things to think of in the realm of everything.

ETA: Again only you know if he loves you, you him. Only you know if he can change, and you will have a new way of upholding love for yourself for boundaries. Only you will now if you even want to try again. But since conflicted you need to go over it all to see.

One other thing only you know if it is a recycle or true love that he has and you have to want to be better. If that were to happen you would be rebuilding a foundation, choosing each other and starting anew with the tools, counseling and validating, your boundaries.

Again abuse is unacceptable. If you want closure you got that. If you want to try again, you need to do it different for the result you want and to make it work.

[Larmoyant]

Hi Lilyroze,

I so appreciate you helping me, thank you.

I feel tired, exhausted really and so very, very sad. I'm conflicted and confused, not sure where he's coming from. I've received lots of emails/texts where he says he's 'moving on', but he still keeps coming back. I'm not sure whether he means it this time or not.

If he does then I'm ok with it. I have no choice and I'd like to send him a closure letter. I'm trying to word one now.

If he wanted to talk I'd be open to it, but I can't take the initiative because if I do he is highly likely to reject me and say no. Then later, when I've stopped crying, picked myself up, he'll come back and say ok, let's talk. It's part of the push/pull and I cannot risk that kind of psychological harm anymore.

For now I'm going to try drafting a closure letter and see where this takes me.

Thank you so much again. I'm in such pain.

[Lilyroze]

L,

I have a thought and question for you. Could it not be push and pull by any chance? Here is why I think someone in my life thought I was push and pull at times, when no just wanted them, loved them but well wanted them happy so if I felt that is what they wanted then backed away.

Lets address the elephant in the room as can't be ignored, the abuse. You have to decide if you want to try again, if you think he can change or is working on. Next big elephant you have not said if you can do your goals with him and he would be supportive.

If so then you have to decide if you both have different personalities, love languages, and listening styles, could you work to better communicate? Could you both work on the changes made to come back better and make this work?

He might be giving you the chance to see if you want him and want to work.

You are vacillating right now, and rightfully so. Address the above questions in your heart and mind.

Then you decide your path, you can always change your mind, but well best to address it all, have a plan of what you want in your heart. Best for you and your family. Best for you both as it will take two. Can you both do what it takes to come back from this with learning and boundaries in place?

Decide if the little voice is telling you to run to be safe or if you are out of fear that you both need to work on things.

If so... .after addressing all

Then he is the big one: You write the letter and ask if you both can love and work on it, forgive and understand. Trust, use the tools and validate, have your boundaries no abuse accepted at all. How would you feel with this? Can it be done? Would you want that? Would your family accept you both are going to try a new path. No dysfunction, no cheating, no abuse and support. Do you think he is the man you want to do this with? Can he or is he on the road to be able to do this? Can he not cheat?

Or: You write the letter thank you for everything, forgive if you want for you, and close the door. Same questions as above.

Which one do you want to do? You are at the crossroads of Hope and Desire. Which way are you going to go?

What is the worse that can happen with either?

Again address the elephants first.

Mine that I wanted to try, there was no abuse like you are dealing with, love, a good foundation, some misunderstandings before and now some issues. I can tell you we both could have handled things better, but to me true love. I could have understood his way better, as he could have mine. Some hurts needed addressed but well have not heard back

You are in a good position of LC, and him trying right now. You are the only one who can decide.

[LightnessOfBeing]

This strongly suggests that he's just playing games with me, but I can't quite accept that. I'm so confused (2) I have this nagging voice saying 'run', leave it behind, concentrate on your own life and get it back on track. I'm back to square 1 and frozen. What shall I do now. Can anyone help me please?

I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. Two things jumped out at me in your post - first, the potential productiveness of examining more deeply your inability to accept that he's just playing games with you. I don't know if it's relevant to your feelings, but I and others I've spoken to in a romantic relationship with a pwBPD, have had similar moments - it is hard to accept that someone we love is engaging with us in a cruel way, that's a painful thought - the message, intended or not, is that we don't matter to that person/aren't seen as deserving of respectful treatment/etc; what's important is that we not let that pain blind us - that it not push us into a state of denial in which we excuse mistreatment by not viewing it as such.

The second moment in your post that struck a chord was your reference to your nagging voice inside. As humans, our gut instincts are often right, and we ignore them at our peril. We can get so entangled in the drama and conflicting/paradoxical/crazy-making dynamic with a pwBPD that we lose touch with our inner compass. Maybe that little voice inside is trying to save you.

Sorry that you're in pain    If you've spent a lot of time on the boards, you'll have seen that, go or stay, these relationships can cause a tremendous amount of pain - but it is possible to heal. Sometimes we have to do that without the comfort of real closure; many pwBPD can't or won't take accountability, see or discuss themselves and the relationship honestly, etc - all the things that it takes for two people to part ways with some shared sense of the reality of the relationship and why it ended. In that sense, the closure letter you write may in the end be mostly for you. It's when we can finally stop expecting/hoping that the pwBPD will 'come around' or 'finally get it', that we're on the solid road to recovery.

Whatever you do, please take good care of yourself. Put you first for awhile, give yourself the healthy, genuine love he seems unable to.

[lovenature]

Hi L,

A pwBPD makes up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment; nothing you or any of us do will ever change that. Think of all the times you tried to get him to see what was happening in reality and you got more pain and pushed away further.

I know how truly painful it is to want so much to help your partner and have a mature loving relationship; without years of therapy they are not capable of reciprocating the love you give them.

Try to think of YOU at this difficult time, I am trying as well-you are not alone.

[Ceruleanblue]

Two things jumped out at me in your post - first, the potential productiveness of examining more deeply your inability to accept that he's just playing games with you. I don't know if it's relevant to your feelings, but I and others I've spoken to in a romantic relationship with a pwBPD, have had similar moments - it is hard to accept that someone we love is engaging with us in a cruel way, that's a painful thought - the message, intended or not, is that we don't matter to that person/aren't seen as deserving of respectful treatment/etc; what's important is that we not let that pain blind us - that it not push us into a state of denial in which we excuse mistreatment by not viewing it as such.

This is so true. I had a tendency to excuse some of BPDh's because I told myself that he had a disorder, and maybe couldn't help it. After a while though, I came to realize that he could control it, he just chose not to with ME. Plus, my excusing him for so long really just enabled him to keep treating me that way. Of course, when I upped my boundaries, that also set him off, and there was a huge price to pay too. There were extinction bursts, and he never really got over resenting the fact that I would no longer just accept such bad behaviors from him.

[lovenature]

After a while though, I came to realize that he could control it, he just chose not to with ME.

BPD is an attachment disorder, their behaviour that we experience once we get too close and trigger their fear of enmeshment is typically far different from what others see; many members have said only they know what goes on behind closed doors.

The higher functioning the pwBPD is, the greater the difference in behaviours their intimate partner will see compared to those who aren't too close. This is one reason why it can be invalidating and hurtful to talk to friends and family who don't see what we do.