PTSD from being ghosted?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Let me see if I can put this succinctly.

My ex and I met in a graduate program. I had two good friends there: him, D and a woman I'll call X. The three of us were friends.

I was not in regular contact with X after grad school, though we remained friendly. She moved pretty far away, for one thing.

I guess she and D stayed in touch, maybe a little more than she and I did, but not much. I called X and cried on her shoulder after D dumped me. She was the person who told me that in the last few months before he discarded me, he was claiming we weren't in contact at all. Which was really confusing and creepy--when she told me that.

Anyhow, she was very sympathetic and said things like, ":)id we even know D at all?" But I got the sense that I should not cry on her shoulder too much, and I tried to stay in touch about other things, like how we were each getting along in life and work and whatnot. She talked about getting together when she came here, but it didn't happen. It felt like she cooled off, though I don't know why.

So I got an evite for the annual party our grad program gives, and I was surprised to see that X had RSVP'd for it, since she lives like 10 hours away. Here's how the back and forth went:

ME: You're going? I think I'll be in town. I don't want to go, I don't think, but I'd love to see you.

HER: Why not!
[I wasn't sure what that meant. Like, why do I not want to go? Why not get together?]

ME: Worried about running into you-know-who and his lady friend. But can we hang out? What are you doing in town--just visiting?

HER: I'll be there for the Monday picnic and then return home early next morning.

ME: Wow. You're just going for the picnic?

HER: Why not.

Okay, so what does this even mean? It made me really paranoid, combined with the fact that she'd been seeming distant the last few exchanges we had. I thought about it for a while and then sent this message, which I now think maybe was an overreaction:

ME: It's just a long way to go for a picnic is all. I'm surprised. Well, I'd love to catch up with you, but I sense you'd rather not. Maybe it's because of D. I don't know. I guess I shouldn't have cried on your shoulder about that. But it was one of the most traumatic things that ever happened to me, and I knew you already knew about us, and there weren't too many people who I could talk to who knew us both.

 I don't want to be weird, but the last few times I've reached out I've gotten a pretty lukewarm response, so I guess I'll leave it here. I hope you are well, and that your work is going well. As for me--I'm a day or two from finishing my [BIG PROJECT]. Or the first draft, anyhow. I'll take a month to fix it up and then hope for the best.


Didn't hear back from her. I realized that I was super triggered by all this. Maybe I misread the situation? If so, why wouldn't she write and say so? Has she just decided she'd rather be friends with D and doesn't want to tell me? I even wonder if he's not with my replacement anymore and they've gotten together. He told me that she propositioned him once, before she knew about us.

I guess I still have some PTSD from being ghosted by D, and now it feels like it's happening again, and I don't even know why. It would help if I at least had a reason. Can someone help me sort this out? Was I out of line? What did her two-word responses mean? Is something going on that I don't understand?

[steelwork]

Let me see if I can put this succinctly.

My ex and I met in a graduate program. I had two good friends there: him, D and a woman I'll call X. The three of us were friends.

I was not in regular contact with X after grad school, though we remained friendly. She moved pretty far away, for one thing.

I guess she and D stayed in touch, maybe a little more than she and I did, but not much. I called X and cried on her shoulder after D dumped me. She was the person who told me that in the last few months before he discarded me, he was claiming we weren't in contact at all. Which was really confusing and creepy--when she told me that.

Anyhow, she was very sympathetic and said things like, ":)id we even know D at all?" But I got the sense that I should not cry on her shoulder too much, and I tried to stay in touch about other things, like how we were each getting along in life and work and whatnot. She talked about getting together when she came here, but it didn't happen. It felt like she cooled off, though I don't know why.

So I got an evite for the annual party our grad program gives, and I was surprised to see that X had RSVP'd for it, since she lives like 10 hours away. Here's how the back and forth went:

ME: You're going? I think I'll be in town. I don't want to go, I don't think, but I'd love to see you.

HER: Why not!
[I wasn't sure what that meant. Like, why do I not want to go? Why not get together?]

ME: Worried about running into you-know-who and his lady friend. But can we hang out? What are you doing in town--just visiting?

HER: I'll be there for the Monday picnic and then return home early next morning.

ME: Wow. You're just going for the picnic?

HER: Why not.

Okay, so what does this even mean? It made me really paranoid, combined with the fact that she'd been seeming distant the last few exchanges we had. I thought about it for a while and then sent this message, which I now think maybe was an overreaction:

ME: It's just a long way to go for a picnic is all. I'm surprised. Well, I'd love to catch up with you, but I sense you'd rather not. Maybe it's because of D. I don't know. I guess I shouldn't have cried on your shoulder about that. But it was one of the most traumatic things that ever happened to me, and I knew you already knew about us, and there weren't too many people who I could talk to who knew us both.

 I don't want to be weird, but the last few times I've reached out I've gotten a pretty lukewarm response, so I guess I'll leave it here. I hope you are well, and that your work is going well. As for me--I'm a day or two from finishing my [BIG PROJECT]. Or the first draft, anyhow. I'll take a month to fix it up and then hope for the best.


Didn't hear back from her. I realized that I was super triggered by all this. Maybe I misread the situation? If so, why wouldn't she write and say so? Has she just decided she'd rather be friends with D and doesn't want to tell me? I even wonder if he's not with my replacement anymore and they've gotten together. He told me that she propositioned him once, before she knew about us.

I guess I still have some PTSD from being ghosted by D, and now it feels like it's happening again, and I don't even know why. It would help if I at least had a reason. Can someone help me sort this out? Was I out of line? What did her two-word responses mean? Is something going on that I don't understand?

[steelwork]

I'm so confused. Did I mess up? Should I send her this?

Dear X,

I'm sorry. I'm just confused by you two-word responses, and the fact that you don't seem to want to catch up. Did I do something to upset you? If so, I wish you would tell me what it is.

It was really painful being ghosted. I don't know if it's ever happened to you, but I guess I still have some PTSD from that is the truth, and now it feels like it's happening again, and I don't even know why. It would help if I at least had a reason.

[once removed]

hi steelwork,

sorry to hear this is triggering you. i can understand why.

i dont think you were out of line; at "worst" you were a little vulnerable, nothing wrong with that. you were honest, stated the impression you were getting and at least in the context youve given she did seem a little distant. you kept it pretty professional, so to speak.

its really tough, and i get the racing thoughts about it. i reached out to some people post breakup that werent even associated with my ex, and i got very similar reactions. it really heightened a sense of rejection, i pondered the reasons, probably got paranoid with them, questioned whether i was coming on too weak, too strong.

from my perspective you did fine. you cant really know the reasons and they may not be at all related. i wouldnt follow up. you said your piece and the balls in her court. hang on. the feelings that may feel like theyre forcing your hand will pass.

[steelwork]

Thanks. I feel like I'm going crazy.

[steelwork]

I wrote again this morning:

"I'm sorry. I'm just confused by your two-word responses, and the fact that you don't seem interested in catching up. I'm going to put it on the line, and I hope I get some response to this.

I feel like we were friends, and we could have stayed friends and become better friends, and that was something you wanted as well. Life gets in the way, I know, but it seems as though something changed over the last year. We talked a few times about reconnecting, and then it began to feel like you were only responding with the bare minimum.

I actually had a draft of an email I was going to send to you before I saw that you had RSVPed to the picnic. And this summer I almost proposed detouring to [her town]on my way to [destination], since it seemed maybe it was unreasonable to expect you to let me know when you were in [my town]. You know--maybe I wasn't trying hard enough.

But then the exchange yesterday completely baffled me. For one thing, I don't even know what "why not!" means. Why not get together? Why not go to the picnic? So maybe you will only be in town for the duration of the picnic, or maybe you've got plans for the rest of your stay. I would understand, of course. But why not say so? Did I do something to upset you at some point? If so, I wish you would tell me what it is.

I guess it's tedious to hear about this, but the thing is that it was really painful being ghosted the way I was by D, and maybe that's affecting my perceptions now. I was dropped on my head from the highest pedestal, I discovered I'd been lied to and lied about (and he apparently believed things had happened the way he said, it because it soothed him to believe that), and then all the sudden I was subjected to this colossal rage. And then he found the slightest excuse to disappear without a word. Someone who I'd had an intimate friendship with, who I was in love with, who gave every sign and testimony of being in love with me. It completely destabilized me and made me doubt everything I thought I knew.

So I don't know if you've ever had a relationship end that way, but I guess I still have some PTSD from it, and now it feels like it's happening again in miniature. Maybe I misread your responses to my emails yesterday. If so, I wish you would tell me. If not, and you no longer wish to be friends, I wish you would say why.

Please say something."

Got this response, replying to an email I hadn't responded to last fall. (I did write to her since then, but I guess she forgot--or it wasn't enough?)


"I sent that email to you last November. I never heard anything from you until a few days ago.

You have the right to ask me why I no longer wish to be friends. I just don't want to. And I don't have to explain to you why.

If I see you at the picnic, then it will be like running into an old classmate. But nothing more than that.

I wish you the very best."

I'm devastated and completely confused and shaking. I know it's a ptsd response. It's somehow worse because of the association with D.

But why would someone go from "She didn't reply to my email" to this with nothing in between?

I'm sorry--I know this is not detachment related. Or maybe it is. I just could use some support. I'm kind of losing it.

[steelwork]

I sent this:

I'm sorry I missed responding to an email. No, you don't owe me an explanation if you don't want to be friends.  I'm just very confused. If you change your mind and decide you want to discuss whatever it was I did, please know that I will be here. Best wishes, X. I think you are a great person and a wonderful artist.

[kc sunshine]

Oh man, steelwork, how super painful. I can totally see how it linked to being ghosted by D. What a horrible way for her to phrase it "I don't have to explain why"-- she doesn't have to of course but some explanation would be the kind and graceful and merciful thing to do. Not doing so is unkind and graceless and unmerciful. I wouldn't do it and I'm sure you wouldn't either. Now the thing that seems to me to work on is the piece that makes this kind of cruelty a hook for you instead of making you want to walk firmly and quickly away from it.
My ex's meanness works similarly for me (she also wouldn't explain why she was ghosting me)... .Why are we drawn to it rather than repulsed by it?

[steelwork]

I guess I feel like it must be my fault somehow, and if I don't figure out how, it will keep happening.

[Larmoyant]

Oh, this is cruel. Steelwork, she's being very unkind. What do you mean by it being your fault?

[Hlinthewiking]

I feel like you should have named her "B" instead of "X"  .

I guess I feel like it must be my fault somehow, and if I don't figure out how, it will keep happening.

It's not your fault, you did nothing wrong, in fact you were very polite and showed care about "X".

The only thing you did wrong is to accept the mistreatment she gave you. There's a lot of selfish unattached (to be polite about it) people people in the world and what people usually do is that they see that they are being mistreated and leave, they don't want to be in any kind of a relationship with someone who's not treating them as they should be, this comes from self love.

You need to find your inner respect and love. It will happen again, but it doesn't mean that it is your fault of that it is something that you can change, because it isn't you, you can't control other people, what you can do is control what kind of people you relate to.  

[steelwork]

Thank you all.

I feel like when I hear you say she is being unkind, that must mean I exaggerated something to give the wrong impression. KC, I read where you said something similar about your reaction to your therapist saying your ex had a "raging case of BPD" (I think was how you phrased it).

My automatic reaction is to defend the person who is hurting me. Why?

[Larmoyant]

My automatic reaction is to defend the person who is hurting me. Why?

It sounds like you are a highly conscientious person and also you’re hurting right now. Maybe feeling rejected and so are vulnerable to taking on responsibility. It’s possibly a sign of your current stress. I hope this isn’t invalidating your feelings steelwork, but her unkindness isn’t your fault. It’s hers, be kind to yourself. 

[kc sunshine]

Yes, let's try to figure this out together so that we can avoid it in the future!

Here are the red flags that stand out to me from her email: one, trying to blame you (the whole "unanswered email" thing), two her coldness and meanness in her rejection of your offers of friendship. If she felt it was a conflict of interest or whatever because of her past relationship with D, she could have said something like that in a kind way, like "I hope you understand but our mutual relationship/history with D makes it difficult for us to be friends." That might hurt but at least it would be clear and somewhat understandable.

Thank you all.

I feel like when I hear you say she is being unkind, that must mean I exaggerated something to give the wrong impression. KC, I read where you said something similar about your reaction to your therapist saying your ex had a "raging case of BPD" (I think was how you phrased it).

My automatic reaction is to defend the person who is hurting me. Why?

[insideoutside]

Aww Steelwork

I don't know what to say except nothing is your fault; you conducted yourself in a mature and composed manner.  I get the shaking; it's a definite reaction to trauma as I had the same reaction last Friday when I was discarded.

Hugs; this person doesn't deserve your friendship x

[steelwork]

The email I didn't respond to was very heartfelt. This is what it said:

"I miss you. I miss conversations we used to have. I met someone new again but he has an issue that he needs to take care of before we can see each other again.

2015 has been a year of heartbreaks for me. In a way, a good thing. It's making me grow up, at last.

I love visiting [my town] and try to go once or twice a semester. I'd love to see you when I go."

I feel absolutely terrible that I didn't reply to it. I was having a pretty tough time myself, but that's no excuse. She must think I'm incredibly selfish.

I sent her this:


This will be the last time I bother you.

"When I read that email that I didn't reply to, I felt terrible. Really, really ashamed. You must think I'm the most selfish person in the world. All the moaning I'd done about my problems.

All I can say in my defense is that I was a wreck last fall. I was traveling 5 hrs by bus every week to see my therapist--that's where my head was at. I didn't see how I would be able to [finish this project, which is very emotionally fraught], and I felt that my dream of being a [blank] was collapsing. My mother and brother weren't speaking to me, and I was trying to come to terms with the fact that they would never come around. My life really had unravelled--not just one part, but all of it.

But I only say that as an explanation of how this email fell through the cracks. It's not an excuse.

I guess you are done with me, and I'm sorry for pestering you. But, again, if you change your mind, I am here. I really hope things are better for you, and I wish I'd been a good friend when you needed one, X. You deserved that.

[steelwork]

I'm sorry--I know I sound obsessive now. But I looked in my outbox, and I sent her several emails after November. Not in response to that one specifically, but there were four, and they all went unanswered. She sent a whatsapp message saying hi on Christmas, and I said hi back, and then nothing.

The reason this is upsetting me, partly, is that when D. blew up at me, he said we'd been "estranged". Which confused me, because in fact we had been chatting, emailing, talking on the phone, and posting on our blog. And then X told me he'd told HER we weren't talking to each other anymore--even though there was all this communication back and forth.

Eventually I just had to accept that feelings = facts for D, and it was easier for him to feel all those phone calls, chats, etc. hadn't happened, because he'd been getting together with my replacement during that time, and it felt better to believe that was happening while we were estranged.

But now I'm getting the same thing from X. Sort of. Anyhow, she told me she never heard from me since November. Help. I really feel like I'm losing it.

[kc sunshine]

Oh man, how tough steelwork. What's striking to me is how apologetic you are to her. That reminds me of me. I don't know what to say about it more than you just sound more apologetic than the situation calls for. Also, if someone is going to drop you like a brick because of one unanswered email than that seems way too high a bar to live up to. I'd say give this one some distance-- it sounds like it is so wrapped up in your relationship with D (both in her relationship with him and also in the behaviors) that it is incredibly loaded for you. Could you write a letter from her that you'd like to receive? Or give yourself lots of positive self-talk around this? Sending lots of hugs to you  

I'm sorry--I know I sound obsessive now. But I looked in my outbox, and I sent her several emails after November. Not in response to that one specifically, but there were four, and they all went unanswered. She sent a whatsapp message saying hi on Christmas, and I said hi back, and then nothing.

The reason this is upsetting me, partly, is that when D. blew up at me, he said we'd been "estranged". Which confused me, because in fact we had been chatting, emailing, talking on the phone, and posting on our blog. And then X told me he'd told HER we weren't talking to each other anymore--even though there was all this communication back and forth.

Eventually I just had to accept that feelings = facts for D, and it was easier for him to feel all those phone calls, chats, etc. hadn't happened, because he'd been getting together with my replacement during that time, and it felt better to believe that was happening while we were estranged.

But now I'm getting the same thing from X. Sort of. Anyhow, she told me she never heard from me since November. Help. I really feel like I'm losing it.

[kc sunshine]

How are you doing steelwork?

[steelwork]

Oh man, how tough steelwork. What's striking to me is how apologetic you are to her. That reminds me of me. I don't know what to say about it more than you just sound more apologetic than the situation calls for.

An apology is very little to give to get a friend back.

A few things occurred to me, about dreams and abandonment and FOO:

1. My father died when I was 14. It wasn't sudden, but I guess it didn't entirely feel real at the time, and I didn't do a very good job of grieving. In fact, I hardly cried at the time. I was relieved it was over. Then I started having dreams that he was not dead--he had just gone away somewhere. I'd see him again after many years and be so happy he was alive! And then so, so, so sad that he had wanted to get away from us. For decades I had this dream frequently. I still have some version of it once in a while.

2. My mother is alive, but I stopped living  with her after I was 12. She's a very complicated person. Distant. I used to have a dream about her that she broke up with me. She just said something like, "I feel like our relationship has run its course."

So there's that going on. This is pretty core stuff for me, this kind of abandonment. I don't deal with it well, I guess. I mean, who does? But it brings up a lot of feelings, this sudden, out-of-nowhere loss of a person.

[steelwork]

Thank you for asking, kc. We cross-posted.

I will be okay, but it's tough.

[kc sunshine]

I agree with you about this and it is my total MO too. But I wonder about it, from things I have learned here. One thing I am thinking about is something from "stop caretaking the borderline" that says "if you apologize they just blame you more." Maybe that is just for BPD relationships and not more generally though.

I generally find that apologizing helps me forgive myself for doing something I regret, in addition to helping maintain the relationship, especially if they are accepted. Unaccepted apologies are rough for me in that regard-- I guess it points to the work I need to do in being self-forgiving.

I can't shake the feeling that what your friend did is cruel (and how she did it was cruel) and over and above what the situation called for. Is part of you angry at her? I guess the general question is how to own up to one's own role in a situation and also hold the other person accountable (I'm not saying the second thing right-- I'm having a hard time coming up with words for that other person thing).

 

An apology is very little to give to get a friend back.

[patientandclear]

She liked you a lot too, Steelwork; you were important to you. She got her feelings hurt when you didn't answer. She's not good at handling that, read into it more than she should have, and now has made a dramatic pronouncement that it's a closed book. You've done all a person can do--you showed at the time it was a fluke (by writing her other messages), even if you were unaware of the problem then. Now that you're aware, you've apologized. Now ... .It's up to her. She may change her mind with the new info, or she may leave herself painted into a corner.

As a friend of mine says, "it's all data." Turns out you are not the only tender traumatized person in this pairing. Of the two, you seem to be processing more effectively and less destructively. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and now it's on her to decide what to make of this and how to show up.

[steelwork]

Do you think it's possible that D has been smearing me to her? It seems crazy, but then so is everything else about this whole extended fiasco.

[patientandclear]

Do you think it's possible that D has been smearing me to her? It seems crazy, but then so is everything else about this whole extended fiasco.

No, it sounds to me like there was plenty of home-grown grist for this mill. She got her feelings hurt when she reached out and you did not respond, full stop. I think there's no need to look further.

[steelwork]

This is an update on a two-year-old thread. At that time, the "learning" board didn't exist, so if the mods think this belongs on that board, I leave it to them to relocate it.

I have continued to think about this friend from time to time, and I miss her a lot. I'm still confused about what happened. I just sent her the following email:

It's been a while now, and I thought I'd send up a flare to let you know I'm still here, thinking of you and happy to talk about what happened between us. Or to not talk about it, if that's what you'd prefer, but to learn how you are doing. I know both of us were going through difficult emotional times a few years ago. Maybe you feel differently now about me, and our friendship. I hope so, because I miss you.

On some levels not much has changed with me since we last communicated--and yet I feel like I've learned a lot: about myself, and what it takes to move on and live in the present. Still working on it, of course. I write to you now because I know I can live with the possible (even probable) outcome that I won't hear back. That's part of what I've worked on. I truly hope you are well and happy.

I really think I'm okay with either outcome. We'll see. I hope I am.

[steelwork]

Ah--never mind. I realized too late that the best thing would be to start a new thread on the Learning board!