He "passed out" in the bathroom...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

BPD/NPDh and I are now living apart, but yesterday he texted me that he'd "passed out" in the bathroom. I finished getting ready for my job training, then on my commute there(I now have to commute, because I took this job because I was living there!), I called him. He got defensive/slightly angry when I called to check on him, saying he was going to go back to sleep. I told him he should go get checked out, or call an ambulance. Of course, I was pretty sure he'd lied about the whole thing.

After my training was over, I stopped over to check on him. He was showering, and he acted like it was his first shower of the day(I can tell by how long he spend in the shower). He'd originally told me he'd first felt faint in the shower, got out, was dry heaving, then passed out, and came to on the bathroom floor. Now, that bathroom is small, and he's six foot. How did he not hit his head? How did he not sustain any injuries? This man goes to the doctor for everything, but didn't want to get this checked out?

I got packing more of my stuff, and then he asks me if I can take him to the clinic. You know, because I wasn't giving him much attention, because I'm sure he'd made the whole thing up. So, at the clinic they gave him an EKG, and a finger poke, and sent him to the ER, just to make sure things were fine. All checked out fine there too. Of course they did!

I wasted an entire day, and he ended it by getting angry at me. I got sucked in, so he could assure his narcissistic self that I still care, or something crazy like that. What he doesn't get is that I would help ANYONE in that situation. I didn't do it because I love him, I did it because it was the right thing to do.

Next time though, he can have one of his mean, angry daughters take him.

Plus, he's failing utterly on his "list" that he insisted I give him of things that would need to change with him, and our marriage. He's only going to the intake center for mental health tomorrow because it's on the "list", NOT because the truly wants to feel better, or behave better. Plus, he lied about cancelling the bank account and creating a new one, and one item on my "list" was add me back to the account. He sat there crying and begging me last week, knowing he was LYING.

He's just digging his grave deeper. He's assuring me that I made the right decision, and I might have to call my attorney back and get the divorce stated back up.

[Ceruleanblue]

BPD/NPDh and I are now living apart, but yesterday he texted me that he'd "passed out" in the bathroom. I finished getting ready for my job training, then on my commute there(I now have to commute, because I took this job because I was living there!), I called him. He got defensive/slightly angry when I called to check on him, saying he was going to go back to sleep. I told him he should go get checked out, or call an ambulance. Of course, I was pretty sure he'd lied about the whole thing.

After my training was over, I stopped over to check on him. He was showering, and he acted like it was his first shower of the day(I can tell by how long he spend in the shower). He'd originally told me he'd first felt faint in the shower, got out, was dry heaving, then passed out, and came to on the bathroom floor. Now, that bathroom is small, and he's six foot. How did he not hit his head? How did he not sustain any injuries? This man goes to the doctor for everything, but didn't want to get this checked out?

I got packing more of my stuff, and then he asks me if I can take him to the clinic. You know, because I wasn't giving him much attention, because I'm sure he'd made the whole thing up. So, at the clinic they gave him an EKG, and a finger poke, and sent him to the ER, just to make sure things were fine. All checked out fine there too. Of course they did!

I wasted an entire day, and he ended it by getting angry at me. I got sucked in, so he could assure his narcissistic self that I still care, or something crazy like that. What he doesn't get is that I would help ANYONE in that situation. I didn't do it because I love him, I did it because it was the right thing to do.

Next time though, he can have one of his mean, angry daughters take him.

Plus, he's failing utterly on his "list" that he insisted I give him of things that would need to change with him, and our marriage. He's only going to the intake center for mental health tomorrow because it's on the "list", NOT because the truly wants to feel better, or behave better. Plus, he lied about cancelling the bank account and creating a new one, and one item on my "list" was add me back to the account. He sat there crying and begging me last week, knowing he was LYING.

He's just digging his grave deeper. He's assuring me that I made the right decision, and I might have to call my attorney back and get the divorce stated back up.

[formflier]

CB,

What would have been a healthy communication back to your hubby... .when he sent you that text?


Talk about the ideas that you should communicate to him... .and then what the text actually could have said in response.

I think you are correct that you got sucked in... .  Good job realizing it.  So... .next time the abusive hubby vacuum turns on... .CB is going to ?

Hang in there... .you are making your way in a brave new world. You can do this!

FF

[Cole]

Plus, he's failing utterly on his "list" that he insisted I give him of things that would need to change with him, and our marriage. He's only going to the intake center for mental health tomorrow because it's on the "list", NOT because the truly wants to feel better, or behave better.

If you want him to succeed on completing the list, keep doing what you are doing. The story about passing out and having you take him to the clinic were cries for attention. You have to ignore these cries for it to hit him you are serious.

Went through a similar situation last fall. When a pwBPD stomps their feet and demands attention- much like a toddler- they have to be ignored- just like a toddler. Eventually it hits them like a pile of bricks that you are now playing by your rules and not theirs, and they will modify their behavior if they truly want to fix the relationship.

Good luck and toe the line!   

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I have to say this wasn't a complete fail on my part: the "old" me would have run to his aid, but the new and improved me went about my business, putting my job training first, then at MY convenience, went and checked on him. I see progress on my part, but I still see where this was all manipulation, and lies on his part. It was actually sort of good for a chuckle.

I hadn't eaten all day, so while he was cooling his heels waiting for his bogus test results(poor health care workers that believed his garbage), I left him and went to the close by, Asian buffet, SOLO! I had peace, and it was a wonderful thing.

I think he came up with the clinic idea(although I'd suggested it when he first texted me) to go the clinic was because I was packing up and not giving much regard to his "health" issue. He goes to the doctor A LOT, so I knew if this had actually happened, he'd have run to the doctor.

I agree, next time, I'm going to do my best to ignore his bogus health scare, and suggest one of his kids take him. Goodness knows, he didn't care about MY health, even insisting I take motorcyle lessons/testing when we both knew my blood pressure was sky high. He actually saw my blood pressure readings, and I was seeking treatment for it, but HIS needs came first, and he frankly didn't care. People at the class were kinder, and more concerned for me sitting in the grass with a massive headache.

I'm very skeptical about him completing the "list" he asked for. He's already balked at several items, which really tells me he's not serious. It was only a five item list, none of them that hard, but the hardest for him will be actually working a program to control his rages and moods, and change his negative thinking. He's also using financial control now too, as he's removed me from the accounts. It's just dumb on his part, because he doesn't want the divorce, but I could easily have my lawyer fight for "maintenance" as she suggested. He does not want to tick me off at this point. He's put me through h*ll, and any amount of money I get from him could never make up for what he's put me through. His bid to use finances to control me will not work. I frankly don't care about his money, AT ALL. I do care that he wants to try to use it to hurt or control me.

I'm not moving off what I want, and what I'll accept. He wants me to move back, and I've flat out told him "no". I'm not even tempted. I hope I can stay that way. I can't see why I wouldn't.

[Notwendy]

CB old patterns are hard to break, and going to aid him with his health at all is something that you will need to decide on. Although you didn't attend to him like you did in the past, his "emergency" brought your attention and it is reinforcing that behavior. Because it did, he is likely to repeat it. Now is the time to consider how you will respond.

The consequences of this is similar to the "boy who cried wolf". Yes, you may actually not go and something may heaven forbid happen, but you have to consider that he, not you, is responsible for getting medical help. In addition, in the case of an emergency, your helping him may not be in his best interest. He may need 911.

I dealt with this with my parents, and it is very difficult. They resisted moving to a place where they could get more help- in part because I suspect that if they did, BPD mom would fear I would not help them or visit them. Since we have broken this pattern - she has gotten help- because I can not be there all the time. Now that she has help, I also visit, so she knows that I still do. In the case of your H, you may not want to visit him. This gives him even more reason to call for help if he knows it is the only way to get your attention.

My mother has cried wolf, and I have fallen for it. But then, once ,she ended up having a real issue and we ignored it, thinking she was crying wolf. But, the truth is, 911 and her doctor helped her sooner and better than we could have, and they took care of the situation- treated the problem and she is fine. Had she waited for us, it might have delayed the care.

CB, if your H is crying wolf, you don't need to be there. If he is heaven forbid, not crying wolf, then he doesn't need you- he needs 911. They will get there sooner and do the job better. Something to think about.

If he calls you again, consider telling him to call 911 because you can't be there. If he doesn't need 911, a cab can take him to the doctor's office. If you are concerned about him, then you can call 911. His health is his responsibility. If he can't help himself, he needs medically trained people to help him, and they can do this better than you can.

[Cole]

I'm not moving off what I want, and what I'll accept.

Good for you. I had to detach emotionally and approach my wife's behavior the way I approach a business deal.
- Know the minimum you are willing to accept and the maximum you can reasonably ask for.  
- Be tough. That does not mean being mean, nasty, or difficult. It means believing in yourself and your goals.

I applaud you for setting your boundaries and sticking to them!    

If he calls you again, consider telling him to call 911 because you can't be there. If he doesn't need 911, a cab can take him to the doctor's office. If you are concerned about him, then you can call 911. His health is his responsibility. If he can't help himself, he needs medically trained people to help him, and they can do this better than you can.

Darn good advise. Not only is it pragmatic, but it sends the message, "I care about your welfare" without violating a boundary.  

[formflier]

Also... .drop the idea of "making suggestions".

Express concern... .then leave the rest up to him

Perhaps the following text " My goodness... .that sounds serious.  Please let me know what the Dr has to say."

FF

[empath]

I was thinking 911, too, and friends/ride to the dr. if not.

After my husband's recent surgery, my brother's wife was in ICU, so I went down to make sure that brother was cared for (didn't want to leave his wife's side). My husband had friends he could call and our older daughter was here to drive if he needed something. Then my husband texted me that he thought his incision might be infected and might need to see the dr... .  and asked when I would be home... .  It was really good that I wasn't anywhere that he could see me rolling my eyes. When I got back, it looked like it was healing normally; it was just painful because it was surgery.

I just wasn't paying proper attention to him.

[Cat Familiar]

My first husband, who was more extreme along the BPD scale, once pretended to be unconscious, after falling down, as a ploy to get my attention. I guess they get desperate enough and they will try all sorts of attention-getting behaviors.

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm even more sure now that this was just a bid for attention, and a huge act on his part. He hasn't said a word about going to his doctor for follow up care. Plus, what I find more odd, is that he's never even mentioned this incident again, other than to tell me his daughter called to check up on him. As if anything he tells me about those mean girls is going to make me think better of them! These controlling, mean girls were doing everything in their power to make our marriage harder until the day I left their Dad. In fact, BPDh hasn't even told them I've left, and I'd bet he hasn't because he knows they'll gloat, and start circling like sharks in the water. He'd never admit that, but I think he doesn't want to have to apologize over and over again to them for having married me. Ridiculous, the whole lot of them! Angry, and ridiculous control freaks.

And like a kid, if something works for BPDh once, he tends to repeat it. This means I'll be prepared for future Oscar worthy performances from him. I think most people would at least be worried, or make mention of a fainting incident, yet he hasn't because he knows it didn't actually happen.

He's also back to being very nice. At a restaurant yesterday, we met a stranger, and ended up talking to him, and sat with him for an hour. This guy accused me of "attacking" BPDh several times, and I honestly don't think I did. I view the things I said as being honest. I will no longer overlook, make light of, or excuse the things BPDH did in the past. When we were actively living together, yes, I'd forgiven them, but we were all sharing our pasts(this other man included, and his wife that divorced him wasn't even THERE to give her side of things) and this man accused me off not being over things I said I'd forgiven! It made me so angry. I didn't say anything though, just made note of it in my mind, what a total hipocrite this man was being.

When we were married, it wasn't SAFE to brings things up, and BPDh even told this man when I'd try to talk to him, he'd either blow up(rage), or he'd shut down and stonewall. BPDh slightly defended me, but mostly sat there and played victim. This man was bragging about making his partner fourth priority in his life, and right then, he lost my respect. It was like he was proud of that. She'd left him, divorced him, and he's having some enjoyment out of keeping her down the list of his priorities, now that they are seeing each other again? When I told him if he'd said that to me(he told her the exact order of his priorities), I'd have walked. He smirked and said he was "testing her". Sick. Just sick.

It all left me feeling sort of bad though. I would never be mean, or deliberately "attack" BPDh, I just see no reason to sugar coat things anymore. This man spend four years threatening divorce, at times getting physical, enjoyed hurting me sexually, refused to communicate in a calm manner, used me as a target for his rages and stress, and blamed me for most of it. Oh, and he also did not act like a man should when his girls refused to allow me around, for absolutely no reason.

Even now, that he's getting his "chance", he's not working on the list HE asked for! I'm getting fake nice, and really ZERO actually true effort. Why request a list he has no intention of doing? This list was the least he could get away with, yet he wanted to renegotiate the list the very next day. It's not open to negotiation to me. I WILL NOT move back in with someone that hasn't learned from their mistakes, truly accepted responsibility, or gotten help for the behaviors. He went to an excellent mental healthy facility, had an intake interview, and lied to me about what they told him. I know either HE lied to them about the severity of his symptoms, or he's lying to me about what they told me. He told me the night after he went that "I told you, my DBT therapist said I could not do any other therapy!". I'd called this place, and it is impressive. It's intensive daily therapy from morning to mid day, where the patients go home at night, but have therapy and get their medications regulated, and it's geared toward each individual. There are also classes, I think, and they use DBT skills, so it does not contradict what BPDh is getting in DBT.

As much as he likes therapy, I'm shocked he won't go, but it's probably because he doesn't really want to deal with his issues, or he feels he's being given an ultimatum. I told him not to do it for ME, do it for himself, so he can find happiness, and live a healthier life. He'd rather keep doing what has killed two marriages, driven countless friends away, scared strangers, risked jobs... .

Plus, I'm wondering how long "fake nice" will last because he's typically been unable to sustain that too.

[Notwendy]

Hi CB,

I'm a little confused about the conversation with the stranger - that person who doesn't know either of you making an opinion about your relationship seems out of line. At least, I wouldn't place any validity in that opinion.

Your H may have asked for the list, but now that he has it, it's up to him. I would leave it with that at the moment.

Learning new skills takes time. Your H has his toolbox of relationship skills, you have yours. Since little time/work has been done - your H will use the tools he has- they are the only ones he has- and he is going to use the ones he thinks will work the best for him. Why not? Most people do what works for them.

Acting nice has worked for him. At this time, it's all he knows to do. In the past, it has worked to get you back and maybe with other relationships. As long as his toolbox of relationship skills work, he's going to use them.

There is a a cycle to abusive behavior. You can google information on this. In general, the frustration rises and there is an outburst of some sort- rage, and in some cases violence. At this time, the bad feelings are out, the person feels remorse. This is the "being good time". Then, the partner returns and the cycle begins. How long will "Fake" nice last? Until he gets you back and it will last until the cycle begins. Or it will not last when it stops working with you. When fake nice doesn't get you back.

Is this forever? That is uncertain. If Fake nice doesn't work, he may consider trying something else- and if he is working on himself and relationship skills- he may find a better way to behave with you. Or, if Fake nice doesn't work, he may give up and move on to a relationship that doesn't require change in him.

But this is the part you have no control over. The only part you have control over is if Fake nice doesn't work with you. You don't have to be mean. You can still be pleasant. But if your boundary is real change - then that takes time and only time will tell what he does about that.