Tired of my BPD wife

[IWantToLive]

Hi,

Married for 9.5 years with 2 beautiful kids. Marriage is now threatened coz of my BPD wife who has now become so dependent on me that she created a furor over my first ever official trip for 3 weeks in these many years. Her excuses to not let me go were like who will look after kids on Saturdays when schools are off and she will be away to her recently started dental practice or that she needs my support to grow her practice. I did however travel and had to work late nights couple of times and couldn't talk to her much and she got offended to the extent that over the weekend when I went along with my team while on tour she wanted to how many females were along and why am I out with them.

Above was the most recent one. Otherwise, there always are complaints about how I do not love her, surprise her, entertain her, do not support her (when actually I was most instrumental in setting her clinic), that I love kids more and not her etc. etc. As per her, if it is in her control, she will not even let me step out of our gated township.

Verbal abuse of high offensive level starts when I do not give in to her demands or will get physical or will start throwing things around or look for sharp things to herself - all in front of kids, no matter whether they are crying like hell or not.

I am happy that over this official trip I got some time to myself and researched on this behavior and got to know about BPD and Codependency. I am still at sea as to how I should counter her (we have not spoken for last 1.5 days after she told me that she wishes to separate from me and I said "yes" out of frustration.) I am traveling back today and not sure how to ask her to go seek therapy or how to break the news to her parents who are currently visiting.

I would like to get things better for sake of all involved here. Please guide.

Regards,
IWantToLive

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[QBert]

I feel for your struggles and can empathize with your frustrations.

Hello and welcome to the site.  It sounds like she may be engaging in classic "Push/Pull" BPD behavior.  It sounds like you are just starting to get familiar with BPD, is that right?

Have you read "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" and "Stop Walking on Eggshells"?  These two books helped me understand BPD a lot more and get a better understanding of my partner and the types of challenges she faces.  I recommend anyone who has a BPD partner and wishes to improve their relationship with their partner to read both of these books.  Start with "I hate you, Don't leave me".

I hope this helps?

[ArleighBurke]

Welcome!

I agree with the book recommendations.

I think it would be wise to read up and learn about BPD BEFORE making any decision to leave her. She will probably always have BPD, so life will never be smooth sailing, but there are many techniques you can learn to make life easier, to reduce the size of her outbursts, and to help you manage to enjoy life.

I know you have only just started learning about BPD, but do you realise that her issues with you going away for a few weeks stem from FEAR and LOVE? As a BPD she cannot regulate her emotions - and sometimes doesn't even understand her emotions. A non-BPD wife would feel emotions when you left for 3 weeks, from worrying about an affair, worrying how they will manage without you, miss you, etc. A non-BPD can manage these emotions - they can feel them and put them in perspective and deal with them. A BPD cannot.

When you read, you will find a conversation technique called Validation. This is a very useful thing to allow you to talk about her FEELINGS, not her actual words. You can help her through what she feels, and this reduces her anxiety and anger.

There is hope! Keep reading and posting.

[Mutt]

Hi IWantToLive,



I'd like to join QBert and ArleighBurke and welcome you. I understand how frustrating, confusing,  emotionally distressing a r/s with a partner that suffers from BPD. I was thinking of the same as Q-Bert with the push / pull behavior. A pwBPD ( a person with BPD ) want emotional intimacy but cannot sustain a healthy, adult, emotionally intimate r/s. Intimacy triggers the disorder and a pwBPD don't have a developed sense of self, the closeness will trigger  anger because of fears of engulfment and they push you away. A pwBPD are terrified of being alone and the distance will trigger the fear if abandonment and they will pull. The push / pull behavior feels like crazy making behavior to the non disordered partner.

Thanks for deciding to join us, you'll find many members here that can offer you guidance and support. It helps to talk to people that understand exactly what it feels like to be in a r/s with a pwBPD. Are you getting support from family ir friends in real life? I found that I was getting advice that wasn't helping me in my marriage from family, friends, marriage counselors, counselors. I'm not advocating to not seek professional help with a T ( therapist ), actually it helps to see a T concurrently with a support group, but maybe you're already seeing a T. People were helpful and the advice was sound but it wasn't applicable when a spouse suffers from BPD. You need a different set of rules. It helps to read as much as you can about BPD, there's a reason why our pwBPD act the way that they do, you'll quickly see the benefits and become proficient over time. It also helps to talk to people that have walked a mile in your shoes.

I didn't understand why my ex wife acted the way that she did because I didn't suspect mental illness, I had believed that is something happens to somebody else. We used to get inti terrible rails, something that I'm not proud of but she taught me how to stop conflict and how to work on my triggers. It takes one person to change the r/s and that has to come from the emotionally stable partner. I'll give you link that will help stop the bleeding, that's a good place to start, to stop making things worse and to bring peace.

A 3 Minute Lesson on Ending Conflict

How are the kids coping?
 

[waverider]

The important thing you will learn is how to change YOU, as that is the one thing you can control. You can't directly change, or fix, her. But by changing you, you change the dynamics and the environment. Indirectly she will adapt.

You may not be able to affect her "BPD status" but you can redirect the toxicity away from you personal interactions.

Not being reactive, and having the confidence to say "no", and sticking to it, will be a major part of it.

[IWantToLive]

Thanks all who responded to my post! It indeed feels good to know about others' experiences and how they have managed in similar circumstances. Yes, I am getting to know about BPD and it has been a revelation. Wish I learnt about this ages ago.

Where I am struggling is how to "Validate" and "Invalidate". So, as I mentioned earlier my wife (pwBPD) had issues with my traveling for 3 weeks. Now that I am back, she is questioning me on how come I went out with my colleagues over weekends when I was so busy at work and working till late in the evenings or early mornings. When on earth it became a crime to go out with colleagues when on an official trip? And, why shouldn't I? She will simply start yelling, will not listen to a thing and if I give her a cold shoulder, she will then come and bug me to speak up. She hasn't been talking to me since Mon evening (when she questioned me for my weekend outings) except for important things. And she brought this topic up today morning when her Bank called me up to check if she would be interested in making some investments. Why does her Bank call me up? Because she is not ready to take ownership of her things, for her Banking is a complex thing she doesn't understand. So, I committed on her behalf and then she started questioning me how come I committed without her consent and then instead of discussing this bit she moved back to my weekend outings!

I am yet to meet a good therapist. I am just not able to figure out what my next steps should be.

Thanks all for reading my post and thanks in advance for any valuable advice one can throw at me!

[ArleighBurke]

Validation is something that you need to learn - it'll REALLY help.

Validation is understanding the EMOTION behind her words. For instance:

she is questioning me on how come I went out with my colleagues over weekends when I was so busy at work and working till late in the evenings or early mornings.

What is her EMOTION behind this questioning? Not anger - that is a secondary emotion. I'm willing to bet her emotion was worry, fear or jealosy. Now it is NOT up to us to question her emotion - she can't control that - she feels what she feels. It is up to us to VALIDATE her emotion.

In this instance, what she says doesn't make it clear what her emotion is, so we need to ask her a bit more to check. Agree *where possible* with what she says:
"I *was* so busy working - it was hectic. Often i didn't want to go out with them, but the networking opportunities were very valuable". Then ask to find out what she felt, or try to guess. "It did feel a little indulgent of me - getting to go out so much with you here having to do the daily grind."

What she says next will tell you whether you are on track or not.

Validation is acknowledging her emotion - her worries and fears. It is not saying whether they are right or wrong, or make sense. Let's say her responce indicated she was jealous. You *may* think that she shouldn't feel jealous because she's just had 2 weeks away herself, or had parties every night you were gone. It doesn't matter! She feels what she feels - try to empathise. "I can understand feeling jealous - I would feel jealous too if you got to go away for a few weeks."

Talking about HER EMOTION makes her feel heard - and will calm her.

[IWantToLive]

Thanks ArleighBurke. I now get to some extent what Validation means. However, I am not great with words and when put in a spot, I fumble.

In my 10 years with her, before I discovered she has traits of a BPD, I used to make her sit and talk to me rather than giving silent treatment (which used to kill me and still does.) I have tried speaking to her on reasons/feelings behind her emotions. They used to easily take upwards of 2-3 hours and at times spoiled a complete night or a weekend. We used to patch up until the time something else triggers her up again. Now I have stopped responding to her silent treatment. However, that makes her even more mad. In the instance after my return from my official trip, she was yelling, crying, cursing sitting next to me while I was driving with kids behind!

Now another instance happened. She used to be once at very good terms with my real sister. However, they fell apart for varied reasons. Usually, every time that my sis used to call me up she used to speak with my wife as well. But this one instance (3 days back), my sis called and did not care to speak with my wife. While I was speaking to my sis, I gestured to my wife if she would like to talk but she refused. The moment I closed the call and my wife realised that my sis did not ask to speak with her, hell broke loose. Now she is yelling at me how come my sis did not speak with her and how I did not rebuke my sis for it or did not cut the call short considering my sis had no intent of speaking with her! She is now blaming me how she is not important in my life and how I am biased about my family etc.

I tried reasoning why she bothers if my sis doesn't bother or I can understand that she is feeling avoided by her behaviour but I personally did not cause that. But none of my reasons worked. Post that it was her usual silent treatment, but this time I did not care and moved on by engaging with kids in their activities etc. Today is the 3rd day and she now seems to be coming back to talking terms and I am in no mood to discuss on the topic again. However, I know how these 2 days have been to me - utterly killing! Her behaviour is always top of my mind and I cannot concentrate on my work or any other activity. I am physically present, but mentally absent from anything I engage in.

I had in no way got this started and still find myself at the receiving end. That keeps me wondering what I should do different to not get into such situations.

[ArleighBurke]

The moment I closed the call and my wife realised that my sis did not ask to speak with her, hell broke loose. Now she is yelling at me... .

I tried reasoning why she bothers if ... .

No! Do not try to "reason", or ask her why she feels what she feels. Asking her to reason or explain is INVALIDATING. It is sending her the message that she shouldn't feel what she feels.

She feels what she feels. She cannot control it.

Your job is to discuss THE FEELING - try to empathise.

So what does this look like:

The moment I closed the call and my wife realised that my sis did not ask to speak with her, hell broke loose.

Try to understnad WHAT she feels. (don't ask WHY she feels it).

"I'm sorry there's a riff between you both - I know you are normally such good friends". Or, "It must be painful to think that she doesnt' care about you any more".

Allow her to tell you WHAT she feels. And listen. Don't analyse it. Don't try to understand it.

Read about validation and see examples here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

[Kelli Cornett]

No! Do not try to "reason", or ask her why she feels what she feels. Asking her to reason or explain is INVALIDATING. It is sending her the message that she shouldn't feel what she feels.

She feels what she feels. She cannot control it.

Your job is to discuss THE FEELING - try to empathise.

 Allow her to tell you WHAT she feels. And listen. Don't analyse it. Don't try to understand it.

Read about validation and see examples here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

This is very difficult and unnatural feeling for men, as we're wired to 'fix' things.
In reality, it's the only way to (at least) try and communicate with a BPD partner.

[IWantToLive]

Many thanks NorthFace and ArleighBurke! I am getting a feel of what you both are suggesting, however, still need some more hand holding.

How do I handle situations where she starts demanding answers from me for someone else's conducts and actually forces me to answer? So, in the case of my call with my sis, she wanted me to answer on why I did not cut short the call or rebuked my sis for not speaking with her!

Also, I need guidance on how to at least start facing the realities of life. So, yesterday, she again offloaded to me a basic thing like paying the milkman, or not being able to cross a busy road without hand holding or getting behind the wheels at least.

How do I make her spend less time on phone (either talking or chatting or surfing) and make time for kids?

How do I make her turn away from distractors (read relatives on my side) who keep her updated with every little nuance on my parents or sisters (I have 2 sisters, both younger to me)? My wife's argument, we should keep in touch with such people so that we continue getting such feeds!

How do I make her not exaggerate things in life? How do I make her behave normally and not over excited with friends/outsiders to show off etc.?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

[Kelli Cornett]

How do I make her spend less time on phone (either talking or chatting or surfing) and make time for kids?

Big problem with my BPDw (especially when she's stressed/dysregulated), and is due to dissociation and avoidance which are very common with BPD. There isn't much you can do to 'fix' this, as this will require her to go to therapy to deal with the core wound(s) that are causing her to dissociate and/or go into avoidance mode in the first place.
What you can do is not make it worse by having it make you angry or react negatively to it (very difficult I know, but it can be done). If the kids are looking to spend some time with her and she's lost i her device, you can pleasantly go up to her and suggest that you guys do something fun together. Don't make mention of things like how long she's been on her computer/phone, don't get angry or judge her for her not spending time with the family, just make it pleasant.

How do I make her not exaggerate things in life? How do I make her behave normally and not over excited with friends/outsiders to show off etc.?

You cannot "make her behave normally", as you cannot fix her. What you can do is learn not to react to her, and eventually (hopefully) your lack of reaction will result in her behavior leveling out a bit. When you react to a pwBPD's behavior it gives them a desired/intended result, and reinforces the behavior. When you don't react they will usually get frustrated at first (kind of like a child throwing a tantrum, who still isn't getting their way), but frequently the end result is they eventually learn that the behavior no longer triggers their desired result.

Crazy I know, but that's why they call BPD 'the crazymaker'.

[ArleighBurke]

How do I handle situations where she starts demanding answers from me for someone else's conducts and actually forces me to answer?

Again - don't listen to her words so much - listen to the feelings. She may ask "Why didn't you X... .?" - you don't have to answer THAT question. You can interpret this is "I have a yucky feeling. I don't understand why I feel yucky. Before I look at *myself* to understand this yucky feeling i am instead going to see if there is anything external i can blame that is MAKING me feel yucky. You! You didn't hang up on her. That shows me that you are unsupportive. YOU are the cause of my yucky feeling!"

So your response should still discuss the feeling. I'm not quite sure what the reponse is - this is the dilema we ALL struggle with - finding the right level of support/empathy.

I would suggest empathy - ignore her words - "I can understand you feel hurt by her - I would too. It must be so painful.".  If she really forces the issue, you can explain ONCE "I know that you and her are having problems - I hope you both manage to sort it out - but I  am not a part of it - my relationship with her is separate to yours." but this will make her feel like you are not "with her". If she pushes anymore - don't re-explain. Just use a constant broken record one-liner "I did what I thought was right" or "I hope you can both forgive".

Also, I need guidance on how to at least start facing the realities of life. So, yesterday, she again offloaded to me a basic thing like paying the milkman, or not being able to cross a busy road without hand holding or getting behind the wheels at least.

This is going to always exist. You can survive by not taking any of it personally. She may berate you for something today, then berate you for the complete opposite tomorrow. This is merely an indication of the constant turmoil that SHE faces. (She can't accept that everything has good and bad in it - she can only see everything as 100% good or %100 bad)

How do I make her spend less time... .
How do I make her turn away from distractors... .
How do I make her not exaggerate things... .

You don't. The best you can do is lead by example. If YOU are doing interesting things, and having fun, and invite her to join you, perhaps she will put down the ipad. If something she does affects YOU, you can impose a Boundary  - but a boundary is to PROTECT you, not change her. She gets to live her own life - even if you disagree with it... .

[waverider]

IWantToLive
In effect you are asking "how can i make her act normal?""... Bottom line is you can't. Neither can she "make" you do anything.

You just have to build the strength and resilience to not allow her to drive your reactions towards compliance with her unreasonable demands, and there will always be unreasonable demands, whether you meet any of them or not.

[IWantToLive]

Thanks all for the replies. It is indeed helping me. I am still reading "I hate you, don't leave me" but there are few things that are troubling me.

1. In the context of BPD, I am reading elsewhere as well that "like-attracts-like" and that somewhere we suffering at the hands of a pwBPD too could be a BPD or if not a BPD then a co-dependent who have initiated the BPD behavior in our loved ones. Where does this diagnosis leave us? Is it so that we are co-dependent and hence we are still stuck in this relationship or is it something more?

2. I now understand (to some extent) the validation and invalidation aspect of dealing with a pwBPD. Earlier, when I did not know about this, I used to get frustrated too much. I am now much relaxed; but what about our feelings? After all those sessions of validation/invalidation I feel fully drained! No energy left to do anything. I now realize how much I have ignored my kids because of this relationship when actually I love kids (as a teenager once I used to very affectionate with small kids in the neighbor.) I want to be that same person again

It has been a week that I am getting silent treatment from my wife. However, I am not taking any pains to ask her the reason as I know the pain of those never ending discussions and how drained I feel post that. The interactions as of now are totally transactional. If initiated by me, 9 out 10 times answer I get is "I don't know."

[ArleighBurke]

Is it so that we are co-dependent and hence we are still stuck in this relationship or is it something more?

I think this is more "opposites attract" - or at least compliment each other. The BPD is needy, the codependant wants to save. We fit together! If the BPD tried to have a relationship with a "non-codependant" person, the non-codependant would have instigated their strong boundaries within a few weeks. Either they would have "had enough" and left, or the BPD would have broken it off and the non didn't chase them. The only people who stay with a BPD are "savers".

I also see that we (as partners) could easily develop "BPD-like behaviours" after spending a long time with a BPD. When two people live together they do start to mimic each other. And her very strong BPD force would easily smash our naturally weak saviour force... .

... .but what about our feelings? After all those sessions of validation/invalidation I feel fully drained! No energy left to do anything. I now realize how much I have ignored my kids because of this relationship when actually I love kids (as a teenager once I used to very affectionate with small kids in the neighbor.) I want to be that same person again  

I REALLY hear you. Your partner is broken - she has BPD. She will not be able to offer you the emotional comfort that a normal partner should. That is unfortunate - but a reality. Which is why we teach "look after yourself". TRY to regenerate through other means. Develop a strong friend network. Have hobbies that make you feel good. And TRY to be the person you want. It's difficult - she tries to drag you down all the time - stopping you from seeing friends, stopping you from doing things without her, making you feel bad for enjoying life because she doesn't. That EMOTIONAL ABUSE she puts on you is draining - you need to be strong enough to withstand it. I still struggle with this - it's a lose/lose situation. If I don't do what I want then *I* suffer, if I do what I want then she's annoyed at me.

But you have to choose: nothing you do will save her. But what you do will save you. Is is better that you both drown? Or that one of you is saved... .

[waverider]

~The victim and rescuer personalities are closely tied. They can also "flip", as a result when you firts meet pwBPD they often role play the rescuer to your victim mode. Appeal to your vulnerabilities and sell you the dream of a brighter future. this is not fake, it was what they want and they are playing the role they want to be.

However it is not who they are and so the slip back into victim, and that brings out your rescuer as you have had your vulnerabilities soothed. Then from there it escalates.

They are leading this dance and you are merely trying to fill the gaps. People who are vulnerable quite often have just come out of an invalidating environment, and a pwBPD in full rescue mode is like a breath air. So yes we are attracted because we are damaged, but not because we are BPD.

Everyone mirrors their environment, that is just a natural survival reaction, and why much dysfunction passes unnoticed, especially if you become isolated from outside influences.

~Constantly deliberately validating when it is unnatural to you is tiring. Often just slowing things down and focusing on not invalidating makes things easier, actively validating flows on more naturally then.

Not everything can be validated away, it is only oiling the works, things will still break down.

[Hmcbart]

The part about taking care of yourself is more important than anything else.   I'm currently learning this fact.  My mental and emotional breakdown this past week is proof of the importance of putting your oxygen mask on first. 

I always thought I was strong enough to keep going forever.  After 21 years of securing her mask first, I'm now having trouble breathing.  Only now am I trying to focus on me first.  She is not happy at all about it but I've got to do it or I will no longer exist.  It may lead to the end of my marriage but i want to believe it will lead to saving myself.  I need to do that to be there for my kids. 

[IWantToLive]

It's difficult - she tries to drag you down all the time - stopping you from seeing friends, stopping you from doing things without her, making you feel bad for enjoying life because she doesn't. That EMOTIONAL ABUSE she puts on you is draining - you need to be strong enough to withstand it. I still struggle with this - it's a lose/lose situation. If I don't do what I want then *I* suffer, if I do what I want then she's annoyed at me.

Bang on! She has created such a barrier between me and my parents and sisters that the very joy of speaking with them is no more there. My interaction with my parents and sisters is formal and namesake. Only recently, when one day, my pwBPD wife out of rage called my parents telling them that we cannot live together anymore and hence are separating did they realize the mess I am in. Since then, at least they started communicating back with me with more warmth, otherwise for past 2.5 years it used to "Hello mum/dad, how are you? All well? Am fine. Take care, bye!"

If I go out for workplace informal meets, as per my wife it is a sin that I get to meet people and she doesn't when actually I have never (ever) stopped her from meeting anyone to beat boredom.

Imagine this, she once got me sign the divorce form by holding me at ransom (she hid my passport and I had to travel cross country). I signed and her joy knew no bounds. Not even 5 minutes and she was yelling again "how on earth can I let you at peace without me and I suffer?" I was bewildered! That time I wasn't aware of BPD and literally felt that someone please appear mysteriously and help me out! How on earth can you first make me sign a divorce paper, feel elated and then suddenly blame me for your insecurities of managing all alone?

[waverider]

If I go out for workplace informal meets, as per my wife it is a sin that I get to meet people and she doesn't when actually I have never (ever) stopped her from meeting anyone to beat boredom.

many pwBPD feel isolated, a lot of it is a consequence of their own behavior, and a lot of it is self protection by avoidance. They dont want this, but dont want to be constantly rejected. In order to "normalize" this isolation they want you to be likewise. If you have more of a life than them it highlights their dysfunctionality making them feel lesser. The outside worlds is the devil, and you are seen as flirting with the temptations of the devil

They dont have the tools to improve it so they want to deny it. It is hard for anyone to accept they screw everything up no matter what they do, and are unable to fix it. As a result they develop a "dont leave me" clingy approach to everyday life, and react badly to you having an outside life as that is just a glaring reminder they dont.

The more you try to defend your actions by highlighting they do nothing the worse it gets. Trying to suggest they do this or that is seen simply as patronizing and controlling, making them feel worse.

Ultimately it is not job to fill the holes in someone elses life.

[IWantToLive]

Thanks all for answering my queries. I wish I had come across this forum much earlier. It is helping, but I see there is lot remaining to be repaired about myself that has been damaged in last 10 years.

My query this time is that now that we all know we are with a pwBPD and the person cannot be fixed unless they themselves introspect and decide to fix themselves why do we continue to be "savers"? Why don't we call it quits and move on? Why is the courage not there, what is it that we fear? Why wake up every morning to see a disinterested face, a person who is communicating for the sake of communicating, a person who just doesn't want to take responsibility for anything but want to be the BOSS at home?

[ArleighBurke]

We all stay for different reasons.

I stay because:
- most of the time things are smooth
- I am getting much better at not taking things personally, so my quality of life is "good enough" for me
- I have 3 kids who I want to have the best they can, and I think separate homes is worse. If I stay I can educate them on how to cope, and hopefully make them better people.

For me, these things weigh up for a stay vote. I don't know for how long - but certainly for now.

You will have to decide for you.

[Mecaco]

I Want To Live -

your post sounds like my life in a nutshell.  I am learning but it is a hard road.  my kids are 3 and 5.  and the physical violence exists in my world too.

my prayers for you.

Casey

[IWantToLive]

We all stay for different reasons.

- I have 3 kids who I want to have the best they can, and I think separate homes is worse. If I stay I can educate them on how to cope, and hopefully make them better people.

That is my biggest reason as well to stay in my marriage. Also, before I discovered about BPD, my other reason used to be that I have once wronged her at start of marriage and that guilt used to be there and every time something happened, I used to blame myself and used to pacify her. Only now I have discovered (after learning about BPD) how that guilt of mine was used by bringing it up again and again to emotionally blackmail me.

I am yet to get to that level where I stop taking things personally or am able to bring back the discipline in my life. Hope I reach that stage soon.

@ArleighBurke and all others who are at that level now, question for you all, how are your respective spouses reacting to your this state of "Nirvana" (if I must say)? Ever since I have stopped reacting (not 100% though) to her tantrums or stopped pacifying her when she metes out that silent treatment to me, initially was a huge outburst and now where she is communicating only for the sake of communicating or if she needs help with something. Is that how it is for you all as well? Or, can I hope for a better relationship than this?

Your views please and thanks again for reading my posts and helping me with your guidance!

[ArleighBurke]

*I* feel better. That's the biggest difference. I don't feel like I'm constantly doing the wrong thing. I've stopped worrying and almost started living.

She is mostly the same. I thought that if I learnt skills that the remarks and outbursts would stop - but they don't. But they don't last as long.

Sometimes, just sometimes, she can vocalise what is happenning with her and stop it herself. I've only seen this a few times - but perhaps there is hope here that she is learning herself.

And now instead of feeling confused and stressed, I just feel lonely. Progress?

[ArleighBurke]

And now instead of feeling confused and stressed, I just feel lonely. Progress?

Sorry - I think i need to clarify my last comment... .

In "phase 1" (preBPD diagnosis) I put in lots of energy trying to work out what was going wrong, trying to understand, trying to cope, feeling stressed. I have stopped that.

"Phase 2" (knowing about BPD) is now - where I understand what is going on. I can apply some skills, reduce the conflict, not take things personally. But i am no longer putting in energy into the relationship. I'm certainly in a time of clarity, but now I'm "observing" the relationship. Unfortunately this means I'm also at the crossroads - not quite sure where I want to take this. I am coming to terms with what I will never have in this relationship, coming to terms with what a future with her may look like, and trying to decide emotionally how that will work. I am sad a lot of the time - I wish things could be different. Trying to see how a life can work with her is still quite complicated. But this is where I am.

The next "Phase 3" will be moving forwards. I can't say what that looks like yet. I think i have 2 choices: to be passive and just play the game for the next 5yrs until my kids are old enough to cope with me leaving, or to actively jump back in and put my energy into making this work. Both certainly have their appeals. At the moment, I'm leaning towards being active. Trying with everything I have to make us work. This is probably the harder road yet i feel *i* will benefit most from it. It will create more arguements and negatives, but also more positives.  I hope it can balance out. And, I can reassess where I am in a few years.

[IWantToLive]

@ArleighBurke, you have so nicely summed up for me. I am somewhere between Phase 2 and 3 of yours and do wonder if I should stick around until the time that kids are a little older. Everything has its pros and cons. I too am lonely.

It is one life we have! We are losing time. Honestly, do not want to breathe my last thinking that I could have done something differently but somehow unable to make that decision.

In this process, kids become responsibility of the more saner partner, but then it has its impact on that partner as well. Minding kids is fine but minding an adult child has no hope. I know divorces with pwBPD (adult kids) too will not be easy and the process of that will have an adverse effect on kids.

So, as I mentioned that my BPD wife and I are hardly communicating. A new movie is released and I mentioned that we all go together and answer I received is that she will go with her friend and if I really wish to see the movie, she can mind the kids for that period. I didn't react and told her that I will go along with kids and she can go with her friend. Earlier, I would have made her sit and talk it out. But, not anymore.

No matter what we do, kids are indeed losing out somewhere on quality time that otherwise 2 saner parents together can provide!

[ArleighBurke]

Whilst I am lonely, and can't find a "soul mate" while married, I can still strengthen my relationship with my kids, strengthen my friends and make my life good. The skills I learn and bonds I made now will last me a long time.

[IWantToLive]

Whilst I am lonely, and can't find a "soul mate" while married, I can still strengthen my relationship with my kids, strengthen my friends and make my life good. The skills I learn and bonds I made now will last me a long time.

Yes, that is what I am lacking as of now and I need to start building it ASAP or I will be doomed like this forever.

[IWantToLive]

Happy New Year to all!

I wish all here a serene and less (or zero) tumultuous year while coping with our BPD partners.

Thanks all who guided me last year and helped me in my difficult moments!

Regards,
IWantToLive

[IWantToLive]

Hi All, long time! Hope you are doing good.

So, this time my BPD wife has issues with me because of my sis meeting with her friends (most of them males). I was away on a tour for 3 days while my sis is visiting us before she leaves for masters at Syracuse Uni. While she is here she decided to catch up with her friends from past who are in the city I live in. Suddenly, however, my wife is having issues with her meeting with her friends as it so turned out that most of them are males. I am back home and today when my sis left to meet another of her friend, all hell let loose. Yelling, calling out names, calling me a Casanova and that my entire family is a lecher. My sis is an adult and has every right to meet anyone as long as she has her mind and heart at the right place. I fail to understand why my wife is getting upset about it. How am I responsible for my sis or family members' actions?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Wutnow32]

North face, I feel for you and your situation. The suggestions so far in this thread are on the mark tho, as difficult as they may be. I used to be a huge 'fixer' and then learned about codependency and how fixing can be detrimental to both parties involved. Also, reasoning does NOT work. I liken it to a cornered rabid animal. If that animal could speak to you, would you try to reason with it? Probably not. More likely try to diffuse the situation or remove yourself from the threat. Same with BPD outbursts. If you can't calmly engage her to discuss her feelings, you need to skillfully remove yourself from the situation. I believe there are reading materials in this website that discuss this. If nothing else, please consider the patterns and skills that your kids are picking up. With a BPD mom, they especially need to learn, from you, how to be skillful with their mom. How they see you respond will be their skill set in dealing with conflict as they grow up and develop.its just as important for them as it is for you to pick up tools and learn skills to make your life better should you decide to stay in your relationship. I wish you all the luck in the world. As I'm finding out, having a BPD spouse is not for the weak at heart.

[waverider]

. How am I responsible for my sis or family members' actions?

You are not, so dont get sucked into the debate by defending anyone. Disengage, if you get abused as a result then have boundaries around abuse, dont make it issue based.

Your wife is projecting her own insecurities, this specific issue with your sister is just a vehicle for doing it. By getting engaged in the subject you give it substance.

I like to think of pwBPD as someone who likes to box with their own shadows and believe their own shadow is a seperate identity who is responsible for their own actions. By adding to the interaction the shadow comes to live, and the delusions are validated.

[IWantToLive]

Thanks @waverider and @Wutnow32!

So, sleeping time, we are in bed (kids in other room) and she comes aggressively asking if I believe her observations about my sis or not. I tried avoiding, not answering and that makes her even more aggressive. Asking questions like "you don't believe your own wife?" and lots of crying around it. I tried reasoning to some extent suggesting if she is responsible for her brother's actions to which the answer is that her brother is not indulging himself. I asked her what does want me to do but no answer to that, just want to rant about my sis. Finally, my manager called me as he wanted some updates and that rescued me.

Woke up in the morning, she saw me and walked out of home for nearly an hour. Over last one year I have somehow learnt to not follow up every time she does such things. I prepared tea in the meantime for everyone. She is back and even though she is aware that I have prepared tea, she prepares one for herself. Now she is not talking. Ever since I came back from my trip, environment is so heavy. This silence treatment actually is what I am not able to tolerate as I feel unknowingly kids are biggest sufferers of it.

This is her way. If I don't respond to her rants, whatsoever, she will get even more aggressive.

[Wutnow32]

My bad, Iwanttolive, my last response said northface. But you got it. There is a technique that one of my many therapists told me about, it's called 'fogging'. It's hard to describe but it's kind of like agreeing with the other person, then they have nothing else to say. For instance in your case about your sis, if you turn to the wife and say "yeah I could see how it might look like my sister is being indulgent, but she's my sister and I love her anyway". Then you are validating her point of view but refusing to engage in arguing about it.
Just a suggestion. Do you have a counselor yet to talk to?

[waverider]

My bad, Iwanttolive, my last response said northface. But you got it. There is a technique that one of my many therapists told me about, it's called 'fogging'. It's hard to describe but it's kind of like agreeing with the other person, then they have nothing else to say. For instance in your case about your sis, if you turn to the wife and say "yeah I could see how it might look like my sister is being indulgent, but she's my sister and I love her anyway". Then you are validating her point of view but refusing to engage in arguing about it.
Just a suggestion. Do you have a counselor yet to talk to?

Thats validating the feeling while not validating invalid facts. Often it is only the feeling they want validating, but are presenting distorted facts to try to express it. Often we engage the distorted facts and hence miss the feeling... which is ultimately invalidating.

[IWantToLive]

Thats validating the feeling while not validating invalid facts. Often it is only the feeling they want validating, but are presenting distorted facts to try to express it. Often we engage the distorted facts and hence miss the feeling... which is ultimately invalidating.

I have tried doing this but haven't been successful when actual discussions go on for hours and she doesn't even get tired.

I am being asked to travel for 3 months abroad on an official trip and like last year when I had to travel for just 1 month, she is at it again. She has hidden my passport and keeps threatening me that she will not let me travel.

My sister's topic as discussed above hasn't died yet and she keeps pulling me in with questions like "who do I believe - her view point or my sister's viewpoint."

Yesterday, she woke me up 1230 AM to argue with me how am I able to find time to go for a meditation course (something I wanted to attend to get out of all this mess) but not find time to spend time with her. Comparing herself with kids as to how I am so fond of them but not hers. 10 years we have had evening strolls, morning tea together, late night movies at home, outings to varied places etc etc. and still she feels we haven't spent time together. At times I work from home (WFH) and her expectation is that when she is home that time I should spend time with her. When did WFH means making time out for a partner and not care about work? Her sermons or arguments finished only by 2AM.

I wake up every morning with a heavy head, even if I have had a good sleep.

I offered her this meditation program to attend and declined stating that I need it more. So, I was ready to do that and still complaints! For 2 months she has been sleeping in another room and then expects me to come after her. I didn't and she complains.

It is like do whatever, I am doomed!

[Wutnow32]

How have things been going 'I Want to Live'? Just checking in.

[IWantToLive]

How have things been going 'I Want to Live'? Just checking in.

Hi Wutnow32, thanks for asking! Hope you doing good.

It has been a month that I am away from home on my official trip to London. After all her tantrums about how she will not let me travel and throwing things around, she somehow mellowed down (am not able to recall the chain of events, such is my memory.) My mother arrived to help her look after kids in my absence. So, she has all required support to carry on with her work and life.

I speak with her twice a day which I guess keeps her remain calm. At times she cribs about my mum, I listen to her and try not to react. Overall, it has been peaceful so far. She and my 2 kids are joining me for 2 weeks in Oct.

I am not sure what impact this, sort of "separation", is having on her but I am hoping it changes her in some way for something positive. Not sure how life will be when I am back after completing my tour. Yesterday, she was telling me that this arrangement works where I am away and these people can come and see me for a couple of weeks every few months. Wish I can do that but I love my kids and miss them and I would want to be back even if the cost is to be wary of her behavior all the time.

Thanks.

[IWantToLive]

am not able to recall the chain of events, such is my memory

Finally, able to recall. So, she had hidden my travel docs. She held me to ransom that if I want my docs back I need to immediately call up a lawyer and proceed with divorce formalities. I agreed, called up a lawyer and requested for all info and how he can help in proceeding with it, agreed fees etc.

She then wanted to discuss who will keep the flat that we were currently in. I replied that whomsoever is with kids gets to stay there as kids will not be disturbed. Her decision was to leave kids with me and she started packing her stuff to leave. All drama though. Pretended to book a cab and then fighting with this fictitious driver for not arriving (no cab ever arrived.) Finally, when she saw that I am not concerned and offering no help, came to me to ask if I really wanted a divorce. That point we got talking properly and things got settled. 

[IWantToLive]

She and my 2 kids are joining me for 2 weeks in Oct.

So, she is with me in London as of now and only yesterday we returned from a week long Portugal trip. As expected, there was drama on this one as well and as per her I spoiled her trip.

So, on day 2 of our trip after we returned from an outing to the hotel, I took my 2 kids 7 years and 3 years old to the restaurant for dinner and my wife started walking to the room to fetch something. Suddenly I received a distressed call from her that some drunk person is trying to abuse her on the way to our room. Thinking of the situation aloud I muttered "I have our 3 year old with me" and that time there was no known adult in the dining room whom I could have requested to look at the kids in my absence.

She heard me say that and started screaming then and there. I asked my 3 year old to stay seated and not go anywhere until I am back and ran for my wife. When I reached the floor our room was on, I noticed my wife about to enter the room and she that very moment screamed "have you no manners to come after me when I needed you, are kids more important in such a situation?" I was like I do need to secure a 3 year old first or else she may panic and do something. But that didn't pacify my wife. Since that time until the time on our flight back I just got silent treatment from my wife. Mid way on our flight to London she started the argument which continued until the time we reached home about 3 hours later. To have an excuse to fight with me she picked up on every nonsense thing like me speaking with a lady in our group (4 families went together) or that lady wanting to be with me (which was never the case) or where I used another lady in the group as a messenger to pass on a message to my wife.

Her bottomline - that I don't care for her and all 11 years that we have been together everyone else is imp to me but not her and that I am a pervert who just satisfies himself by looking at females or having them around!

I tried reasoning to her why every organized handling of situations requires the weakest to be secured first (kids and old first and then rest) but didn't work. Instead, that she wanted to be on next flight back home no matter what are cancellation and fare difference.

I wish there was a way for me to get away from her forever and live a life peacefully without being judged. I now wonder if actually ever there was this drunk man or was it another of her fabricated situation to test my reaction. Irrespective, I am fed up.

[Enabler]

Highly doubtful, likely just another test in the never ending hoop jumping exercise.

[IWantToLive]

Highly doubtful, likely just another test in the never ending hoop jumping exercise.

How does it make her feel better? What drives them to enjoy agony over peace and understanding with others? What pleasure these people derive by having a pecking order in their mind? Kids cannot take care of themselves but adults can and hence kids need to be looked at first. That doesn't mean they are more important than other relationships.

[Enabler]

This is just me guessing but... .she doesn't feel safe, she feels out of control. By knowing that she has complete control of you (you are the replacement for the attachment she should/tried/tries to have with her parents (and as emotionally mature adults we have with ourselves)... .and she's emotionally still a child) ensures that she feels safety again. My guess is that something like a holiday where she's in a strange place induces fear, fear such that a child would experience when they find themselves alone in the middle of M&S with nbo sight of Mum. She wants to be nurtured, she wants to feel safe. There's a lot on here about looking through the Anger to the primary emotion. You've got kids right, you know that your 3yr old demonstrates ALL emotions as anger... .I have 3/7&9 and all of them seem to have a very limited emotional paint pallet. For her, she feels scared, she cannot comprehend why on earth you're not responding to her NEED as an absolute emergency and therefore she feels abandoned... .all you see is the secondary emotion which is anger. This isn't to make them feel better, this gives her no pleasure, she's not sadistic.

Re her place in the pecking order, she feels as if she's on fire (not literally), if you saw her on fire, would you stop to make sure your 3yr old daughter has enough toys to play with before extinguishing the flames? No... .you would act immediately. You judge the severity of the situation and the immediacy of the need to action on a TOTALLY different scale to her. I always wondered why my uBPDw never ever used the word want, only used the word NEED. I thought it was weird, but actually, for her, it was a NEED. In the same way that a child NEEDS a new bike for Christmas. It's real for her.

[waverider]

I now wonder if actually ever there was this drunk man or was it another of her fabricated situation to test my reaction. Irrespective, I am fed up.

I get these kinds of fabrications all the time. She just felt vulnerable, and so probably made up, or chronically distorted, a scenario as a way of expressing it. Her overreaction was due to you not first showing concern and reassuring her emotionally before going into logic mode. The rest is escalation including a bit of JADE that keeps the attention on her.

[waverider]

I always wondered why my uBPDw never ever used the word want, only used the word NEED. I thought it was weird, but actually, for her, it was a NEED. In the same way that a child NEEDS a new bike for Christmas. It's real for her.

Many cannot differentiate between wants and need. Everything is a perceived and immediate need. Until its not wanted any more. It is important that we can differentiate and not get swept up in all the fanfare, otherwise we validate the want as a need.

[IWantToLive]

All,

Need your help. Have been on this forum now over a year but I guess am still far from understanding how not to JADE or invalidate when accused of something that I was never ever inclined to do myself even in my dreams!

I have cited before how my BPD wife has linked me to females (that I am hitting on them), that I am a totally frustrated pervert who gets satisfaction just by ogling at females (no matter what age) or talking to them.

I have definitely cut down on my arguments with her and it has been over a month now that we have spoken straight. I behave normal with my kids (even in her presence) but she is transactional with me and even with kids (in my presence). However, I am unable to stand it when she accuses me of something that I haven't done and then start calling out names and badmouthing me. It is then that I start defending myself, seethe in anger (literally wanted to bang her head into a wall).

How do I set boundaries with her? Even if I walk out of the room, she will follow me to the other. She doesn't think twice waking me up from sleep to rant her perception of events.

[ArleighBurke]

It may be better to start a new thread for this topic.

Because it is almost a new topic, and because I think threads are limited in size and this one is approaching its max.

But my 2c on your answer - imagine your wife as a 5yr little girl. And if your 5yr old little girl gets annoyd at something you do and starts calling you a stinky bottom - would you get upset, JADE, be angry? You would simply say "I'm sorry you feel that way babe" and walk away. Probably with a little smirk on your face. Or you would roll with it: "I *AMMM* a big stinky bottom - and I'm coming to stink on you!" and chase her.

You set your own frame on life.