BPD early marriage. Please help, I could use some advice.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I wanted to talk about the topic of early marriage and BPD partners.

I've been dating my GF for about a year now. I know one thing for sure, she wants to get married already. I want to recount my story here but I've been browsing the boards and I think you'll maybe find it somewhat familiar.

The topic of marriage came up VERY early on in our relationship. At first I'll admit I did not take it too seriously. I saw it more as playful pillow talk. I really loved this girl, of course, but I didn't think we would get married after just a month of knowing eachother. One time I brought that up, just to make sure, and she agreed.

Anyway, over the past year, the dreams of one day being married and having a life together would come up from time to time. "I could see a life with you like this" etc. She would talk about it semi-frequently and whistfully. Again, no problem there.

However, lately over the past month or so, she's been more serious about it. Sometimes, even passive aggressive, "I know you don't want to get married" most of the time more playful, quoting Beyonce's famous "if you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it," but much more frequently hinting that she'd like a proposal.

Last night, it was a more serious conversation. It was calm, no lashing out, but there were tears. She explained that she did want to get married to me soon, though she understood why I was hesitant to do so early. My reasoning is that 1. we don't live together and if we got married I would prefer if we were living together at the time and 2. for me it just seems too soon to get married after not even a year. She was understanding of those points, particularly the first one, but clearly disappointed.

I asked her why she wanted to get married so soon, and her answer was one that's been echoed throughout the boards. She mentioned wanting stability, someone she can rely and depend on. She acknowledged that it was at least party motivated by a fear of losing me, marriage being more of a guarantee of security. She saw marriage as something more permanent because of the difficulty of divorce and the perception of trying to make it work at all costs in a marriage. It does worry me that this seems to be unanimously the same motivation in some of the unfortunate stories in some of the threads on this forum (one I link to below).

Now, I have told her in the past that yes I think I would like to get married someday, and that I think I could see a life together with her and be happy. And that's true. I am in love and I mean those things. However, that doesn't mean I feel comfortable rushing into something as big as marriage too early, especially with our living situations separate. I care about the relationship and I feel rushing into this before we're ready could do more harm than good.

Since her main fear and driver of wanting to get married so soon was a fear of an uncertain future and her apprehension of "ifs", I tried to have us come up with plans for what a future for us would look like, with some hard action items. Like, we would move in together after a year, and we would start exploring places we'd like to move to right away. We each came up with a list of five locations last night.

I think that helped. She still gave a sort of ultimatum that she wouldn't move out of the state (a mutual goal) unless we were married. I don't find that completely unreasonable.

Still, I can't help but feel anxious about it. Before me, I know she has been engaged twice. Neither materialized into marriage and both relationships were pretty short lived. When I attempted to speak to her concerns by saying I loved her and was still committed, despite not thinking marriage was a good idea just yet, she dismissed that by saying she's heard it before.

I can't stress enough that I am actually happy in this relationship. She does have BPD, though she is aware of it and has been diagnosed years ago before I knew her. Sure, she can be emotional sometimes (who can't?), definitely black and white, and sometimes hurtful (not often and quick to apologize) but there have not been very many incidents with us like I read about on these boards.

Overall, she's been very kind, passionate, loving and dedicated. There are still things I think we'd need to work on in our relationship, but I think that's true of any relationship. I could certainly see a life together and when I tell her that I mean it, but I feel uncomfortable being nudged to rush into marriage so soon, partly given my own philosophy, partly her past of quick engagements and partly threads on this forum like the linked one below.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=177859.0

One thing that worries me about that thread and the stories of others is the idea of a BPD partner looking for marriage for a stable situation, which then lets them be free to play and explore. She has talked about wishing she could have gone out partying more, but she also has wicked social anxiety... .I know that no two people are the same, despite if they share a similar condition, but it's hard not to let my imagination go wild connecting the threads... .

I'm in a relationship that I would say overall is going really well, this one element has me confused. I'll be honest I maybe don't know what answers I'm looking for, but maybe I need a place to vent, and hope that perhaps people who have been in similar situations may have some insight.  

[uncleowenrip]

Hello,

I wanted to talk about the topic of early marriage and BPD partners.

I've been dating my GF for about a year now. I know one thing for sure, she wants to get married already. I want to recount my story here but I've been browsing the boards and I think you'll maybe find it somewhat familiar.

The topic of marriage came up VERY early on in our relationship. At first I'll admit I did not take it too seriously. I saw it more as playful pillow talk. I really loved this girl, of course, but I didn't think we would get married after just a month of knowing eachother. One time I brought that up, just to make sure, and she agreed.

Anyway, over the past year, the dreams of one day being married and having a life together would come up from time to time. "I could see a life with you like this" etc. She would talk about it semi-frequently and whistfully. Again, no problem there.

However, lately over the past month or so, she's been more serious about it. Sometimes, even passive aggressive, "I know you don't want to get married" most of the time more playful, quoting Beyonce's famous "if you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it," but much more frequently hinting that she'd like a proposal.

Last night, it was a more serious conversation. It was calm, no lashing out, but there were tears. She explained that she did want to get married to me soon, though she understood why I was hesitant to do so early. My reasoning is that 1. we don't live together and if we got married I would prefer if we were living together at the time and 2. for me it just seems too soon to get married after not even a year. She was understanding of those points, particularly the first one, but clearly disappointed.

I asked her why she wanted to get married so soon, and her answer was one that's been echoed throughout the boards. She mentioned wanting stability, someone she can rely and depend on. She acknowledged that it was at least party motivated by a fear of losing me, marriage being more of a guarantee of security. She saw marriage as something more permanent because of the difficulty of divorce and the perception of trying to make it work at all costs in a marriage. It does worry me that this seems to be unanimously the same motivation in some of the unfortunate stories in some of the threads on this forum (one I link to below).

Now, I have told her in the past that yes I think I would like to get married someday, and that I think I could see a life together with her and be happy. And that's true. I am in love and I mean those things. However, that doesn't mean I feel comfortable rushing into something as big as marriage too early, especially with our living situations separate. I care about the relationship and I feel rushing into this before we're ready could do more harm than good.

Since her main fear and driver of wanting to get married so soon was a fear of an uncertain future and her apprehension of "ifs", I tried to have us come up with plans for what a future for us would look like, with some hard action items. Like, we would move in together after a year, and we would start exploring places we'd like to move to right away. We each came up with a list of five locations last night.

I think that helped. She still gave a sort of ultimatum that she wouldn't move out of the state (a mutual goal) unless we were married. I don't find that completely unreasonable.

Still, I can't help but feel anxious about it. Before me, I know she has been engaged twice. Neither materialized into marriage and both relationships were pretty short lived. When I attempted to speak to her concerns by saying I loved her and was still committed, despite not thinking marriage was a good idea just yet, she dismissed that by saying she's heard it before.

I can't stress enough that I am actually happy in this relationship. She does have BPD, though she is aware of it and has been diagnosed years ago before I knew her. Sure, she can be emotional sometimes (who can't?), definitely black and white, and sometimes hurtful (not often and quick to apologize) but there have not been very many incidents with us like I read about on these boards.

Overall, she's been very kind, passionate, loving and dedicated. There are still things I think we'd need to work on in our relationship, but I think that's true of any relationship. I could certainly see a life together and when I tell her that I mean it, but I feel uncomfortable being nudged to rush into marriage so soon, partly given my own philosophy, partly her past of quick engagements and partly threads on this forum like the linked one below.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=177859.0

One thing that worries me about that thread and the stories of others is the idea of a BPD partner looking for marriage for a stable situation, which then lets them be free to play and explore. She has talked about wishing she could have gone out partying more, but she also has wicked social anxiety... .I know that no two people are the same, despite if they share a similar condition, but it's hard not to let my imagination go wild connecting the threads... .

I'm in a relationship that I would say overall is going really well, this one element has me confused. I'll be honest I maybe don't know what answers I'm looking for, but maybe I need a place to vent, and hope that perhaps people who have been in similar situations may have some insight.  

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[VitaminC]

Hi uncleowenrip,

It seems that you're thinking this through rationally. You take pains to point out that the relationship makes you happy, except for a few niggling doubts about the emphasis on marriage (and what it means to your partner). I've read your other posts and see that you spoke a bit about some insecurity on her part and needing you to be available and around a lot. Although she can also be quite reasonable and understanding.

It sounds like you handled that conversation really well. Putting a structured plan into place and some attainable goals (looking for apartment, moving in together) and breaking it down into steps like that is consistent with what you've been saying all along, I think. Consistency is good.

Have you used any of the communication tools ----> since you joined? Do you notice any difference in your interactions and the relationship in general?

Any commitment deserves to be gone into with a proper sense of its significance. Marriage is big in the sense that people attach a huge symbolic value to it, but also that it changes a lot of things in practical, legal, ways. Both are very good reasons to go slow, especially as you are contemplating marriage with someone who has a higher than usual chance of being impetuous.

It's not so much a question of time measured in terms of months as much as a question of knowing quite thoroughly what the relationship is and will be like. While none of us can see the future, we certainly can, and tend to anyway, predict different outcomes of events and decisions that we make. How the passage of time helps us in this regard is to allow events to develop and unfold and allow us to observe the patterns - hopefully with a Wisemind Distance (I might be coining a phrase, sort of).

Don't rush. It doesn't seem that you will anyway. There is no rush. There is no greater certainty in anything by attaching a ceremony to it, as you know yourself. Keep doing what you're doing: reading, thinking, practising your own communication skills, and taking care of yourself by seeing your friends.

[livednlearned]

Hi uncleowenrip,

It's likely that she will always want more reassurance, validation, attention than you can realistically give, and wanting to be married (a natural desire, to be sure) is part of that tendency in her. It is probably very hard for her to reassure herself, one of the challenges for someone with BPD, so she needs you to provide this reassurance. It may be making her thoughts/feelings about marriage more urgent than if she was not seeking validation from you to the same degree. The urgent need for reassurance is not likely to go away once you get married, it will simply become something else that she must test in order to attain the reassurance she needs.

When you want to get married, do it because you feel committed and are ready. It's important to not give into needs for the sole purpose of reassuring her, although you know that already 

It is promising that she is aware she is BPD. Can she describe how her BPD affects her, and how it might be affecting her relationship with you?

[uncleowenrip]

Thanks to you both for the replies. It really does mean a lot and this board has helped tremendously.

Vitamin C - I have used the communication tools I've read about here. Or at least I try. I can be good at not JADEing for the most part, but sometimes I have to catch myself. I also read about SET and STOP. I have not tried STOP in practice, and I try SET when I can. They are really helpful to at least be mindful of though, and I have noticed overall our arguments have improved.

livednlearned- I do try to be mindful of the fact that her need for reassurance is likely to be infinite. Though I am naturally a bit of people pleaser to be honest, so sometimes I struggle to not give in or set appropriate boundaries. Though I do make an attempt. I can't honestly say I've made much headway with a lot of things. I could really use a lot of help there. Still, with vastly important things like marriage, I won't be willing to budge.

The question of whether she can describe how BPD affects her and how it might be affecting us as a couple is a very good one. She knows she has BPD because she was diagnosed, and I think she is very aware of how it affects her. If asked, I do think she could describe it. She's talked about its symptoms before. As for how it effects us, I'm sure she could describe that as well. I can't say it's something we have talked about a lot though, or at least frequently. So really all I have are best guesses as answers to those questions.

I think she's come a long way from where she once was, and her knowing about what BPD is is likely responsible for that. Still, sometimes she struggles with every one of the things you read about on this board. From what she's told me, she has never really had professional help before or wanted it. I know BPD is curable, from what I've read, but I think she'd be very resistant to therapy. She believes that she is doing fine with it and doesn't need help. I would mostly agree (only disagreeing because maybe even nonBPD could benefit from a therapist probably). While she will lose herself to high emotions or irrational fears on occasion, she is usually good at recognizing it either at the time or very soon after.

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with future conversations of the marriage topic? Setting our sights on moving in together and where definitely helped, she seemed excited about it the next day and talked a lot about different options. That sort of shifted her focus not necessarily off of marriage, but at least onto a step towards it. Still, I imagine that we are not done with the topic quite yet. The more she presses me for something immediate, due to a need for reassurance, I fear the more she will start to not believe me when I repeat the same line of not being ready for it yet. Is this a situation where a boundary needs to be set up or do I just need to be prepared with how to talk about this, until, of course I feel ready to take a big step like that?

[livednlearned]

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with future conversations of the marriage topic? Setting our sights on moving in together and where definitely helped, she seemed excited about it the next day and talked a lot about different options. That sort of shifted her focus not necessarily off of marriage, but at least onto a step towards it. Still, I imagine that we are not done with the topic quite yet. The more she presses me for something immediate, due to a need for reassurance, I fear the more she will start to not believe me when I repeat the same line of not being ready for it yet. Is this a situation where a boundary needs to be set up or do I just need to be prepared with how to talk about this, until, of course I feel ready to take a big step like that?

One thing I wish I had done before getting married is think carefully about values, together. What do we individually think about money? About children? How do we handle differences? How do we want to raise children?

Wanting to get married a month into a relationship is a sign of someone who may not fully understand the maturity involved in a deeply intimate relationship, which fits in ways with BPD challenges -- she has a less mature sense of self.

You provided some sense of structure and she responded well. It validates that you are serious about marriage (planning together) without popping the question. I wonder if you can do the same thing with other big issues, bring them to light and help her see these are the things two loving people discuss and sort through when it comes to intimate partnerships and big decisions.

I know friends who have done pre-marriage counseling, either through their churches or through couples counselors. Might be worth looking in to? I don't know. Just brainstorming here.