Can there be change without acknowledgement?

[NewStart]

Hey all,

So my uBPD/NPDw and I are on the brink of divorce if not already in the process.  Last night we talked a bit and she said that she now get's it and that it is me and not her and that she hopes I get help as I am bound to repeat the same things in future relationships.  I know what I have lived in, I know what I have experienced and yes I played a role, but no way am I wearing that.  I have been raged at, spit on, hit and the list goes on and on and on. 

So my question is this, if someone with BPD/NPD does not take ownership of their actions and the role they play in the degradation of a relationship can there really be enough change to save a relationship?

Thanks,

NS

[Meili]

Not save it and it be sustainable and/or healthy IMHO.

[bruceli]

Sounds like projection and how does one change if they can't see anything wrong?

[Skip]

So my question is this, if someone with BPD/NPD does not take ownership of their actions and the role they play in the degradation of a relationship can there really be enough change to save a relationship?

I think it is a more complex question than you're asking. Sure, if you two are in conflict and there is stress, you could expect this type of answer from either or both sides - tensions/defenses are high - not a time for self-reflection. These things ebb and flow.

At the same time, when a relationship is broken like this, both parties have got to want to fix it.

Have you considered a supervised therapeutic separation?

What are you fighting about?

[NewStart]

Skip,

Well it's officially on the clock now, we're decided to give ourselves until spring to see if we can repair the damage between us and if not it looks like divorce.  For the time being we've agreed to separate bedrooms but that we are not looking elsewhere for anyone else.  The talk has been to try to move forward with kindness and clear boundaries and see if things can repair themselves as we go.

I think it may be a difficult road ahead as my wife has pointed all issue back to me and said I need counseling, medication etc. etc. with little or no ownership of her roll in our disordered dance.  I have bent forward and backwards, adjusted behaviors, walked on eggshells and it always get's spun back to me.  Last night she even went as far to say that she now realizes that it is me, not her, and that all my relationships end this way.  I dated one other BPD woman and yes that did go, well exactly like this one.  However, prior to that I was in a 17 year marriage and in between my last BPD and my current I happily dated several woman that I am friends with to this day.  So how did she position her rocky past, well she needs therapy to find out why she dates/marries people like me... .

Our current fall out is over trust, much of it very much of my own doing.  Isolation and silent treatment put me in a space where I bent the truth to see friends, go for a bike ride or just do something like go watch a football game.  It seemed like everything I did had a consequence so to avoid that I would just do it and beg for forgiveness later... .I know, not a good idea.

So, here we sit today on the brink of divorce and I will be working on me and she will be working on herself and somewhere in that process I hope to be able to meet back up with her in a space she feels safe, valued and loved. 

NS

[Skip]

OK, good, the house is not on fire.

Why not get a professional to supervise the next 4 months rather than wing it?

I think, even in the best of mental health, couples therapy is (in the beginning) about the wife clearing the air and swinging till she gets tired. Then the work starts.

Lastly, look at this posting profile. Detaching might be validating, but no relationships are saved or rehabilitated there. Its more of an intervention environment.

Detaching From the Wounds of a Failed Relationships Deciding or Conflicted About a Relationship Improving a Relationship With a Borderline Partner        Saving a Relationship That Is in or Near Breakup        Personal Inventory and Self-awareness     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

558 63 55 31 10 ---------

[NewStart]

Skip,

Some great information there, I've tried to get her back to couples therapy and she says, "we've seen three and we're right back where we started, so I'm working on me and you should work on yourself... ."

So with posting profile comment are you saying that our separating from each other under our own roof is only going to serve to push us further apart?

Thanks,

NS

[Skip]

So with posting profile comment are you saying that... .

I am saying that you might want to stop posting on Detaching and moving to a Staying or Conflicted Board.

As for the separation - her point has some validity - but if the next few months are about her being the architect of the relationship rehab,    Tell her that therapeutic separation is different - coupled meet independently in the beginning... .

[NewStart]

Ok, I was on this board because it was "saving a relationship at or near breakup" but you're thinking I should move boards. Guess I will try conflicted!

As for her as the architect for rehab I have the same concern, but I am confident that I can do my part to remove the trust issue as that is on me.

I'm thinking at this point my only hope is to work on bettering myself.  100% honesty even at the risk of retribution, a reconnection with friends and activities I've had to abandon and all with a positive mindset. 

I can only change my behaviors and hope that in strength of mind and spirit come healing.