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Author Topic: how to respond to SO's alienated S17  (Read 517 times)
livednlearned
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« on: October 28, 2016, 03:31:18 PM »

SO has a son who is 17. He lives in the next state with his BPD mom. He's pretty alienated

SO drives up there regularly to spend time with S17, and S17 is always cutting short the visits because of too much homework, and other excuses. He's also special needs, with Asperger's, and has grandiose ideas about what he's going to do after he graduates (with no planning, no preparation), like attend Harvard, Stanford, Juilliard, Culinary Institute of America. From what SO describes, S17 is living in a decent apartment but the place is filthy, and smells like dog pee. Many of you probably know the drill.

S17 was supposed to come here for the holidays. He sent this note to SO:

Excerpt
Dad,
I know its your turn for having me, D19 and D22 for Christmas this year but I really don't want to go back to Your Town.  Your Town brings back all my bad memories of depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts.  I didn't like The Last Town (where mom moved him 2 years ago) much better but I do love where I am now with Mom in The New Town.  The New Town is where I'm happy for the first time in a long time and I just want to stay here for now.  Although she said she's fine, I don't want to leave Mom alone for Christmas either.  I hope you can appreciate and respect my feelings.  It has nothing to do with you, just the place you live. I don't ever want to go back there.


What's a good way to respond? SO feels the note was co-written with BPD mom. Initially, SO was told that S17 had to spend Christmas here, and SO assumed that meant her BF was at last moving to town, and she wanted to spend the holidays with him. Lately, that plan is off the table and that leaves BPD mom alone.

S17 hasn't been to visit since he left over 2 years ago, and he was apparently not suicidal, depressed, or anxious when he was here. However, a few weeks ago, he expressed suicidal thoughts when his mom played back a recording of him singing, and said he was awful, and that he would never get in to Juilliard  

Let it be? Insist on a compromise? Write a heartfelt "I miss you, buddy" email in response? Point out the suicidal ideation and recommend he come here for an evaluation? I could use feedback from my favorite peanut gallery  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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sanemom
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 10:06:47 PM »

That is a tough one.  Since he hasn't been coming anyway, maybe just stick with empathy and an "our door is always open to you".  

Something like, "I am sorry you are feeling so torn about all of this--I know it's hard to have divorced parents who do not live close to each other.  Just know that our door is always open to you, and we love you very much.   Maybe someday we can meet up somewhere else for lunch or something."

I hear that empathy goes a long way in furthering relationships with alienated kids.  :-/

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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 05:26:44 AM »

wow... that is a tough one. I am also pretty sure he did not write this all by himself. Especially because I don't a teenager usually spends any thoughts on how his parents are feeling Smiling (click to insert in post) (eg. mom being alone for christmas).

I am sure this day will also come for us. I am not sure how I would respond. I think if this would be the first event where he is trying to "skip" his visitation I would definitely say that he should really come. (especially as I would be afraid that this would become the new "status quo" for BPDmom). But if there is alreay a pattern then I would also go with empathy. You could also share with that you were looking forward to have him and that you had planned xyz. I don't know if it would be worth it to ask what makes him happy about the new town? Friends? A special place he likes to hang out?
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livednlearned
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 07:52:02 AM »

I go down this rabbit hole, where something like this happens with his kids, SO asks for my support, and I run with it (bait?) and then he does his own thing and I'm left wondering why I put any thought into it in the first place. 

SO sent an email and recommended shortening the stay, but not canceling it altogether, and some other stuff. He says he took an empathetic approach.

It reminds me how I need to focus on my side of the street.
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2016, 05:38:53 PM »

This may not be manageable, but pack up your son and SO's daughter and go to him?
Or at least suggest it, and see what the answer is? That may tell you more about whose
idea this is - and yes, it sounds like mom's.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2016, 10:47:40 AM »

Thanks PinkieV

I talked to my therapist yesterday about, among other things, my role in SO's life when it comes to his kids. T suggested for my own sanity to focus on my needs and protect my boundaries, and that may mean not getting involved in anything to do with his kids, at least unless things happen naturally.

She validated for me how BPD is the most difficult disorder, how being married is more difficult, how coparenting with a divorced BPD parent is even harder than that, and how being SO's partner to a BPD ex is like taking sticks to a gunfight. 

I don't think she was saying that I can't have any real influence. She was trying to put in perspective that there are very real limits, and that I have my own life, and we're talking about kids who are older, not younger, so the expectations to blend families are different, and may not be possible.

I guess I'm having a hard time with the guilt. These are kids, they're not adults. I hate the idea of giving up on them  but maybe it's true, the influence is illusory.

 
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 11:10:18 AM »

"I hate the idea of giving up on them"

I'm not sure you're giving up it's more about stepping aside sometimes and being a positive influence where you can.  It's hard to back up sometimes when you see all kinds of dysfunction but I think we step-parents have to find our own place in the scheme of things and do what we can from that place. 

I actually told my SO just last night that it's hard to see all the dysfunctional behaviors that his kids have picked up from their mother, but I realize that I am not equipped to fix them.  I can be there for them as an alternate example of what an adult woman/mother can be and we as a group can live another way but I'm not a therapist I can't fix what has been ingrained in them they will have to learn some lessons the hard way.

I think my biggest sphere of influence is with their dad, I can give him my observations or ideas but I also know that is as far as I can go that he will do what he thinks is best.  And when I disagree I just have to let it go, we are a team but these are his daughters.

I always have that Karpman Triangle in mind and try to stay out of there!

Panda39
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2016, 03:30:47 PM »

"I hate the idea of giving up on them"

I'm not sure you're giving up it's more about stepping aside sometimes and being a positive influence where you can.  It's hard to back up sometimes when you see all kinds of dysfunction but I think we step-parents have to find our own place in the scheme of things and do what we can from that place. 

I actually told my SO just last night that it's hard to see all the dysfunctional behaviors that his kids have picked up from their mother, but I realize that I am not equipped to fix them.  I can be there for them as an alternate example of what an adult woman/mother can be and we as a group can live another way but I'm not a therapist I can't fix what has been ingrained in them they will have to learn some lessons the hard way.

I think my biggest sphere of influence is with their dad, I can give him my observations or ideas but I also know that is as far as I can go that he will do what he thinks is best.  And when I disagree I just have to let it go, we are a team but these are his daughters.

I always have that Karpman Triangle in mind and try to stay out of there!

Panda39

This is exactly how I have been feeling! It's so hard for me and I'm wrestling with this because I always want to "fix" things! I'm a fixer! I'm trying to take a step back from the parenting role and be more in the role model role if that makes since. It's difficult because of DH's work schedule.

I struggle too with protecting my own children in a since... .they are older teens and see their step siblings acting out and it drives them crazy. It's definitely a lesson in patience for them!

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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2016, 11:02:44 AM »

Is there any possibility SO and you can take a week's vacation during Winter Break to somewhere nice?  On the bright side that would shoot down S17's objection saying he doesn't want to visit in Your Town due to past memories.  Conversely, he could just come up with some other excuse not to join the family then.  (Or his mother could overwhelm or guilt him more to still refuse.)

Does SO take that risk to change the scenario knowing it could be expensive and still sabotaged?

If son finds other excuses not to come, then he could be called out, to some extent, on his excuses and have him face what he's really doing.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2016, 11:50:40 AM »

Going away for a vacation, just the two of us sounds so nice! We hope to do that next summer. I haven't been on a proper vacation in over 5 years, altho we have had a weekend getaway twice and that was really fun. Even then, I had my schoolwork with me so it wasn't work free.

But no, going away by ourselves over the holiday break isn't really doable.

SO and I both struggle with codependent traits. Me less so    SO's uBPD D19 will be here for the holidays, and his D22, and he would never do something to put himself first if it meant sending them to their mom's for the holidays.
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2016, 12:00:09 PM »

Backtrack clarification!  I meant have the entire gang join you at a retreat somewhere, even if only a long weekend.  Doesn't have to be far away, just different and 'elsewhere'.  A mountain cabin with a fireplace, whatever.  Someplace to sit back and relax or go out and ski, hike or just stare at the snow with bottomless mugs of hot chocolate.  Sabotage his excuse not to come since it will be elsewhere without his claimed memories.
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PinkieV
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2016, 03:12:15 PM »

Yes, I agree with FD, if it's doable. Or . . . at least float that idea out there and see what he says.

L&L, I've taken a big step back with my husband, SS16, and uBPDm. It's been so good for me. Of course, we have full custody, SS16 does not want to see her, and she lives two states away, so that's relatively easy.

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livednlearned
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2016, 03:44:22 PM »

FD, going away as a gang is not a possibility. I'm starting to see that taking a step away from their family dynamics is better for me, tbh, and putting the whole crew together would only work if we had two therapists and a shrink come with us  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) 

I think having had my own tango with a BPD ex spouse influences how I think SO should handle his son. More I think about this, more I realize that it's not my problem, and no one wants it to be my problem. And S17 has no boundaries, which is stressful for everyone, so why am I trying to fight this? I mean, gah. I am such a slow learner.

SO is going to insist on a getaway for the two of them for at least part of the 10 days, which means compromise, I guess.

The thing that churns me up inside is knowing BPD mom was ready to toss S17 out if her (affair) BF was going to spend Christmas with her. Now that BF is not, suddenly S17 is supposed to stay with mom so she isn't alone. She's mean to S17 and feeds him this grandiose crap about elite college this and elite college that, meanwhile he's lucky if he'll have the grades for community college. And yet, that's the parent he trusts. <roll eyes>

Y'all know the drill.

Rant over!

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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 04:34:42 PM »

Livednlearned -- I'm wondering how Christmas worked out for everyone in your gang, including your SO's son.

When there is alienation involved, it is harder (impossible?) when they are adults. In our case, emails like the one your SO got come from SS24 to DH. I'm not sure there is anything DH can do given that his ex (uBPD) enables SS24's addiction. After reading Dr. Childress's stuff, it is clear what uBPD has accomplished, but SS24 is an adult so other than trying to stay connected, there isn't much that DH can do and then cross his fingers that SS24 pulls himself out of the mess he's in.

BYW, I re-read this string because I need to remind myself that I can't fix any of this stuff. Not that I don't spend time imagining that I could  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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livednlearned
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2017, 03:28:05 PM »

BYW, I re-read this string because I need to remind myself that I can't fix any of this stuff. Not that I don't spend time imagining that I could  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Fixers Anonymous  Smiling (click to insert in post)

SO's S17 did not appear for Christmas, which surprised no one.

I can see how alienation would be really hard when they are adults. Teen alienation is pretty hard too.

There is some monkey business going on with SO's BPDx that involves cohabitation and alimony. Her affair partner has moved to a neighboring town, which explains why SO's S17 was told he had to come to our town for Christmas, only to receive the email saying he wanted to keep his mom company. According to the girls (D19 and D22), their mom's boyfriend chose to spend the holidays with his ailing dad.

So that explains the whiplash about S17's visit. When BPDx mom said S17 had to stay with us for the holidays, both SO and I suspected an ulterior motive.

It makes me think that alienation is actually much more insidious when it's between a BPD mother and her kids. In my case, the alienation tactics my son's dad (N/BPD) used were less effective because I was the primary caregiver and N/BPDx had ceded so much ground by being basically useless as a father for so many years. He definitely hurt S15 in long-term ways but the attempts to brainwash and enmesh were not as successful as what I see between SO's BPDx and her son (as well as D19).

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