Do they ever feel remorse?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Do they ever - after a while - stop and realize that what they did was heinous.
Do they ever STOP?
Do they ever take accountability for doing horrible things?
Do they ever realize how absolutely horrific they behaved and how insidious their actions were?
Has anyone here seen any real remorse?
Do other people eventually catch up on who the REAL perpetrator is?

[Miss-understood]

Do they ever - after a while - stop and realize that what they did was heinous.
Do they ever STOP?
Do they ever take accountability for doing horrible things?
Do they ever realize how absolutely horrific they behaved and how insidious their actions were?
Has anyone here seen any real remorse?
Do other people eventually catch up on who the REAL perpetrator is?

[michel71]

From what I have read it appears that they have a great sense of entitlement. Since they see themselves as the victim they need to be made whole. By you, by everyone. Every "bad" thing they do to you is justified because its all YOU and not them and if YOU wouldn't have been so "xyz" they wouldn't have had to take that course of action. In other words, what ever they do or not do, YOU made them. Many have NP as well I read. That just makes it worse.
The above assumes that they even admit to doing anything bad to you.
I was gaslighted all the time then meant to feel bad for "accusing her of something that was all in (my) mind". I was given the silent treatment. To make the peace I sometimes apologized for things I really did not do. NOW THAT IS WACKED!
To have a sense of remorse would mean that they accept imperfection. They accept wrongdoing on their part. Arrogance and lack of humility are prevalent especially if they have that NP cross-over.

[hope2727]

Mine would feel horrible shame and this would overwhelm him. TO cope he would either re-write history in his favour so he could be the victim or project all his venom onto me. But yes he did feel remorse at times.

[Miss-understood]

You both touch on key points yes.
Either it's all my fault. Or the shame is so prevalent that he does whatever he can to wipe it away.
Mine told me his mother figures were narcissists. I didn't know what that meant back then.
This is sickening.  And yes I too have apologized for things I didn't do .

[jonmnemonic]

There were only a handful of times when my BPD apologized of her own accord and for things like raising her voice or calling me a name.  For the most part it was deny, deflect, and defend when confronted with her bad behavior.  Her most often response was "I can't believe you're saying I'm doing that.  That's exactly what you're doing to me."  The only way to end the ensuing argument was to apologize for whatever it was she had done that I now had to take ownership of.

In counseling when specifically asked if she ever does things to hurt me would respond by saying she never did anything intentional to hurt me.  She would tell me often that she wanted me to let her know when she did something wrong.  When I would bring something to her attention she would tell me things like "I'm the only one who decides when I do something wrong."  She even managed to defend her affair and say there was no need to apologize because it wasn't against me.  When confronted with that she angrily apologized.

Life with her was a constant mind frack.  To this day I don't know if she experiences any true remorse.  Every relationship that was soured, every job she's lost, everything that has happened in her life has all been because of someone else.  She is capable of looking at others who talk and act PD and point out that all they do is play victim.  She just can't see it in herself.

[GoingBack2OC]

You both touch on key points yes.
Either it's all my fault. Or the shame is so prevalent that he does whatever he can to wipe it away.
Mine told me his mother figures were narcissists. I didn't know what that meant back then.
This is sickening.  And yes I too have apologized for things I didn't do .

I can only offer my experience with my ex, as a possible answer to your question.

We dated for 5.5 years, I on any given random day, was informed by her, over the phone, she got drunk over the weekend, hooked up with a guy at the bar, and that was that.  She tried to explain, despite just a week or so before we had been hanging out, making love, talking about building a family, and so on, that she is now, a cat with no collar. No man will ever own her body. She wanted me to know, she is just like her cat Timmi. (Now dead but as a Kid). She explained, if I loved her, I would understand. See Timmi, he was a indoor outdoor cat.  There was a cat-door. He could come and go. No man owns her. No man will. She told me, she believed we were true love (during this call) but we needed some time to explore, and she just needed to have some fun.  Its what 'young people do'. She is 32. She said, if I loved her, I would allow this... .and she closed with this. Plus, I know you will be back for me, after youve got the issues worked out.

Within a few days, after feeling just heartbroken, devastated, I poked around on FB and realized who it was. Long story short. I found out, factual info, that she actually had been with him, in a relationship for months. Months. Having unprotected sex.

Top it off, she likely contracted oral HSV1, having broke out with a cold sore and high fever coinsiding with a UTI 1 month prior to this huge fall out.  We held off week or two until it cleared up. In 5.5 years she never ever had one before. I was just really confused.  Thank fully, Blood tests show I did not contract. Thank god.

However, REMORSE.

After I found out it was not a hook up, rather a relationship, and she had put me at risk for catching an STD. I called her, but literally never heard from her again.

Ghosted. As in, never resonded.

Until... .about 8 weeks later. I was "gifted a few minutes on the phone".

Since this huge life destructing event (I mean we were together for 5.5 years). I had had time to process.

I forgave her. I didnt want to hold on to anger. Build it up. I told her I forgave her.

She replied:        " Ok... .But Im not sorry "

So remorse? My story says no.  But my ex had more issues than just flat BPD. She personally told me in confidence (rare moment she told me very personal things) she knew she was cold, had very little empathy if any at all, and was in fact diagnosed Schizoid as a teen. This was maybe two years in, after the turn from idealization to devaluation. I was upset, and a huge argument occured about how she had become this mean, uncaring person, totally unlike the person I met. She explained it became to tiring. Caring. That empathy was exhausting.

Personally, I think she was misdiagnosed. And is likely more a combo of BPD Comorbid with NPD and perhaps some ASPD, as she comes off as highly social in the begining. But then, just slowly became a mystery.

So no, I dont think they have remorse for the other person. They may feel bad that something affected them, but not the other.

My ex had no problem compartmentalizing a person she loved, wanted to have children with, a family, a life, into "I now have a new squeeze, its more exciting, I am going to hide this from you, build this new relationship, and when its safe, ready, and he has committed to supporting me, I will leave you, and your feelings, the way I do it, do not even matter at all, not to me.

[GoingBack2OC]

She would tell me often that she wanted me to let her know when she did something wrong.

My ex said something similar. This was prior to her infidelity incident with a married man... .but once I brought up I didnt think it was appropriate that she had made plans to go and oil paint at sunset on the river with a differnt married man.

"Hes just a friend"

I explained, it personally, made me feel a bit uncomfortable as this man was no one I had met, not a mutual friend. It wasnt a group thing. And hes married too.

In the end, she understood, and said;

" I need you to tell me these things, whats right and wrong, because I dont know "

She later had a quasi fling with a married man... .I dont know all the details, but I guess it didnt go all the way, he was upset, tried to make it go farther, and she was able to leave. She was upset, with me, I wouldnt go over and kick his as$. 

I mean, yea, thats great, Ill go to jail for battery, because you made out and spent an evening with a married guy and realized it was a mistake. 

Their reasoning, is beyond logic.

[woundedPhoenix]

Actually, in my case... .yes.

My BPDex is in therapy since 4 years, and in the past weeks we have been talking about things that happened... .

And she does feel remorse... .she does see that behaviour she did was way out of control and that she hurts other people in various ways.

And with all these realisations, she comes to the conclusion that the thing she always wanted, to have a lifelong all-consuming connection with someone, just ins't possible for her.

So she is gonna stay clear from 'traditional' relationships in the future.

[jhkbuzz]

If we are talking purely BPD here, it is hard for a pwBPD to feel remorse for two reasons: first, the feeling of shame is overwhelming and it is much, much easier to play the victim and view a partner as "the bad guy." Second, their emotional landscape is underdeveloped, so their capacity for taking responsibility, showing empathy, etc. is like that of a young child - close to non existent. Coming to grips with the second point helped me quite a bit - I wouldn't look for emotional validation and reciprocity from a child because they couldn't offer it. Neither could my ex.

I understand that you want other people to "eventually catch up on who the REAL perpetrator is." The unfairness of it all is frustrating and infuriating - but remember, other people don't see everything you saw. The disorder plays out in intimate r/s's. On the whole, my ex comes across as warm and charming to other people.

Your first question: ":)o they ever - after a while - stop and realize that what they did was heinous?" The answer is that they have a serious mental health disorder that makes that kind of realization very, very difficult. Stop viewing her through the lens through which you view yourself ("If I f&^*ed up like that, I would do everything within my power to make amends" and work on accepting the fact that you were involved with a person who, because of their BPD, will never be able to offer you the emotionally fulfilling relationship that you are looking for.

[Reforming]

Hi misunderstood,

It's a question that a lot of us ask and the answer isn't black and white. We're talking about a spectrum of behaviour that often includes co-morbidity with another disorder, like narcism etc and some are higher on the spectrum than others.

The definition of remorse: ":)eep regret or guilt for a wrong committed" Guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is a focus on self. Guilt is, "I did something bad." Shame is, "I am bad".

Guilt is an evolved emotion that is built on responsibility and an ability to separate our core self from our behaviour. We can acknowledge that by behaving badly we didn't live up to our values and let ourselves down but that does not mean we're a bad person. We feel remorse and try and make amends and correct our behaviour.

BPD is a shame driven disorder. I think some feel regret, but it's fleeting and shallow. Most BPD struggle to sustain those feelings. They do feel a lot shame

BPDs struggle to separate their behaviour from their sense of self because it's underdeveloped and very fragile. So for them taking responsibility for acting badly means they are bad. This triggers lots of shame, which feels intolerable so they repress / deny it or cast onto others - by blaming and projection.

My ex said sorry on various occasions though that gradually diminished in the latter stages of the relationship.  In retrospect her apologies were very childlike. They lacked depth. They were just words. By the end she justified everything and denied any responsibility by clinging to victimhood - a strategy for avoiding responsibility. I had become her persecutor - thats part of the disorder too.

When you explore BPD this makes sense because those with the disorder often have a kind emotional arrested development. They are profoundly immature - childlike. Children can be cruel and they can struggle to understand the consequences of their actions.

@woundedPhoenix I think many BPD are genuinely seeking love, but intimacy triggers the disorder.

@GoingBack When I discovered my exes affair with a married man she never really showed any remorse or empathy. On an abstract level I think she knew that affairs were meant to be wrong but she didn't feel it was wrong. Her logic was very childlike - no real comprehension of the harm that she was doing to me, his family etc

@michel Yes entitlement is a big part of victimhood.

Good thread

Thanks for sharing

Reforming

[DazedandConfus3d]

Thanks for your post, Reforming!

That really helped me put a lot of things about my ex in perspective.

I've struggled not to demonize her while at the same time not excusing the really terrible things she did to me.

Reading that, I feel I'm one step closer to being able to let go of that struggle to understand, accept that is who she is, recognize that expecting any different from her would be foolish, and letting go of my pain and anger to move on with the rest of my life.

Thank you again, you've really made a difference for me.

[Moselle]

Do they ever - after a while - stop and realize that what they did was heinous.
Do they ever STOP?
Do they ever take accountability for doing horrible things?
Do they ever realize how absolutely horrific they behaved and how insidious their actions were?
Has anyone here seen any real remorse?
Do other people eventually catch up on who the REAL perpetrator is?

A fullblown borderline like mine. Dangerous and uncooperative.

I don't believe she can or ever will feel any remorse.

If there are consequences for her. She will pay attention. But that's not remorse. It requires empathy to feel remorse. She has none

[Reforming]

Thanks for your post, Reforming!

That really helped me put a lot of things about my ex in perspective.

I've struggled not to demonize her while at the same time not excusing the really terrible things she did to me.

Reading that, I feel I'm one step closer to being able to let go of that struggle to understand, accept that is who she is, recognize that expecting any different from her would be foolish, and letting go of my pain and anger to move on with the rest of my life.

Thank you again, you've really made a difference for me.

Hi Dazed

I'm glad it helped. You're right. Understanding someone's behaviour does not mean that we excuse it - each one of us is responsible for our own choices good and bad - but it can help us to detach. When we demonise our exes we stay attached and give them a lot of power.

Detaching is hard work but it's so worthwhile.

Good luck

Reforming

[michel71]

The fact that they act child-like about most things gives me comfort. Young children cannot comprehend in general the depth to which they have hurt another. They know right from wrong, basically, but it takes maturity to look at things outside the box and really put yourself in another person's shoes. So all the expectations that my uBPDw had for my financial servitude was kind of like a 5 year old. She wanted something. I had to find a way to provide it or I didn't love her and was a terrible person. BUY ME MY TOY OR I'LL HATE YOU.
When I read the poster who said that they got an STD I forgot that mine had given me the HPV virus. She didn't even tell me that she had it. I went to my dentist for a regular check up. He looked under my tongue and said " did you know you had this"? It was a white spot! I had to go to an oral surgeon and have it removed. When I found out what it was I was embarrassed and found myself in a place trying to explain to my dentist and the oral surgeon that I am not some sort of disgusting person who sleeps around.

[michel71]

By the way, when I told her about it she offered no remorse, her knowing full well that I got it from her. She reacted like she gave me the common cold or something. HORRIBLE!

[Samuell]

I spent a very long time trying to understand the motivations of my BPDex.

Given that you can never truly know what's in someone else's head (BPD or otherwise), it was healthy for me to adapt my thinking.

I now say it doesn't matter why she did what she did, whether she meant it, had a reason, regretted it afterwards. What matters is it hurt, it was wrong and I don't have that in my life anymore.

[Willis002]

I've thought about this topic a lot! So say if my ex tries to get back with me and apologies that shouldn't be enough right? Even if she's crying? I would need to know exactly what she is apologizing for. I have everything stored away in case she tries to comeback. Everything she has said is documented and so I can let it go. But if she does try to contact me and apologize I have everything I need.

She's

- Done a smear campaign
- Threaten a restraining order
- Blocked my existence
- Had my replacement lined up
- Lied about everything and why we broke up

[FallBack!Monster]

I've thought about this topic a lot! So say if my ex tries to get back with me and apologies that shouldn't be enough right? Even if she's crying? I would need to know exactly what she is apologizing for. I have everything stored away in case she tries to comeback. Everything she has said is documented and so I can let it go. But if she does try to contact me and apologize I have everything I need.
She's

- Done a smear campaign
- Threaten a restraining order
- Blocked my existence
- Had my replacement lined up
- Lied about everything and why we broke up

That is messed up? But ask yourself WHY would someone do that? And then why would your ex try to come back? Why waste time irealizing you, making you feel like the center of the universe only to hurt you?  I asked myself the same a few months back. It didn't make sense. Why? Why? Why?  Work on those questions for yourself while you visit here for further support. Im not sure what your findings will be. In fact, I never found answers to those questions bc in my experience (not implying is the exact same as yours) but in my experience there were all the wrong answers. My focus was on the wrong things. That thing about epiphanies.

[Willis002]

If she tries to come back I'm going to make hard for her to get me back. I need answers and If I don't get them she has no chance with me. I feel like since the holidays around the corner and Valentine's Day is a few months away that there are triggers out there for her. I have knowledge she acting the single life and found the first warm body. I'm realizing I'm the one she wants but has severe commitment issues. I will be taking my power back one way or another. I will get what I want because I believe in the prize and I don't mean to sound vein. The fact she doesn't want me now but doesn't and doesn't want me with anyone is quite interesting to me. I've become very knowledgeable about what's been going on and how BPD works. I believe she used her disorder as an excuse while experience the disorder at the same time. Like she know what her disorder does but isn't accountable. I feel like she feels entitled and she can get me back whenever she wants. She has a harsh reality in her future. I will make things difficult because I deserve better. FYI I am open to reuniting if certain things pan out

[skidoo28]

yes mine gf would feel bad for doing or saying things to me but would then turn around and point the finger saying its because you did this or this happen because xyz would justify her own actions. i would say i was sorry alot of the time when i truly felt like she should have been the one to say it to me. but to keep the piece i would apologize for her actions... . 

[Willis002]

Yeah I can see that happening and make sense. But since we are completely broke up she has no hold on me. When she tries to comeback I have the decision power. I won't accept anything less than her own up to what she did and that if something like this ever happened again she would never hear or see me again. I'm very serious when I say that. I'm willing to fix things one time me but to do what she did a second time I can't accept. I know there would be some rough time because of the disorder but I'll never go back to her if she did this to me again. I know it's possible that it could happen again

[Repping305]

On the one hand, the notion that she was entitled was strong and all the post about gaslighting and apologizing for things I didn't do. 

On the other side, she would confess to feeling so bad that she made up lies or "that didn't happen in my reality". But she'd later say she made up the lies to get attention b/c that's the only way she feels wanted (implying that b/c I wasn't paying attention to her that she "Had" to do the things she did to feel ok, things like have group sex, start fights online, use sockpuppet accounts to torment people she didn't like, use hard drugs and the like.
------
Sadly I wish I knew. I keep wanting to think the answer is Yes. I want to think the person I like is the authentic one and that the others are just the illness. But I have started to accept it's wishful thinking, wishful thinking that I've engaged in that's continue this and wishful thinking that's caused so many of my problems.

[Fr4nz]

Dear all,

I think that the point simply is: they have a very low (or broken) emotional intelligence (EI).

The definition of emotional intelligence is the following:

Emotional intelligence (EI) or emotional quotient (EQ) is the capability of individuals to recognize their own, and other people's emotions, to discriminate between different feelings and label them appropriately, to use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior, and to manage and/or adjust emotions to adapt environments or achieve one's goal(s).

Now, BPD sufferers are surprisingly effective when it comes to interpret the emotions of other people (maybe much more than us NONs) but... .the ability to recognize and control their own emotions seems absolutely underdeveloped, to say the least.

All in all, I'm convinced that BPD sufferers have a "broken" EI; remorse require having a working EI, hence the problem with BPDs.