I don't know what to do

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I helped my newly recent ex last night on a problem she was having with being served papers. she broke down in front of me and her kids asking if i could look at the document. What could I do? I still love this woman, I never wanted to end things, but here I am. I did my best to be empathetic and not get sucked into her emoptions and provided some ideas/opinion I had about what I read, making clear that these are her decisions and to be reminded of the best interests of the kids. She was thankful and appreciative, asked if she could have a hug when I was heading out the door, and so I obliged... .next thing ya know, we making out like crazy telling each other how much we miss each other and teling each other how much we love the other. If the kids weren't there, well I knew where things would lead... .

I have received a few texts today from her and the kids but the last one she sent was before she started work saying "I get butterflies when I think of that kiss mmmmmmh"

I feel like screaming, I am so conflicted. all the good times/feeling and all the bad times... .On one hand, I have just begun the move out process and I am staying at my dads place until the end of the month. On the other hand I am left with ther thought that there is still something there and there is a sliver of hope that is burning hot inside me. Another factor is, is if I act on the latter I will be criticized by my friends and family who are telling me to run for my life.

I'm trying to be strong and do the right thing for me, but everyone has their opinions and I am sick of other peoples judgements, but I know I need some distance from my ex to make an informed descision.

Never experienced so much drama in my life before, when did my life get so complicated?

[Swhitey]

I helped my newly recent ex last night on a problem she was having with being served papers. she broke down in front of me and her kids asking if i could look at the document. What could I do? I still love this woman, I never wanted to end things, but here I am. I did my best to be empathetic and not get sucked into her emoptions and provided some ideas/opinion I had about what I read, making clear that these are her decisions and to be reminded of the best interests of the kids. She was thankful and appreciative, asked if she could have a hug when I was heading out the door, and so I obliged... .next thing ya know, we making out like crazy telling each other how much we miss each other and teling each other how much we love the other. If the kids weren't there, well I knew where things would lead... .

I have received a few texts today from her and the kids but the last one she sent was before she started work saying "I get butterflies when I think of that kiss mmmmmmh"

I feel like screaming, I am so conflicted. all the good times/feeling and all the bad times... .On one hand, I have just begun the move out process and I am staying at my dads place until the end of the month. On the other hand I am left with ther thought that there is still something there and there is a sliver of hope that is burning hot inside me. Another factor is, is if I act on the latter I will be criticized by my friends and family who are telling me to run for my life.

I'm trying to be strong and do the right thing for me, but everyone has their opinions and I am sick of other peoples judgements, but I know I need some distance from my ex to make an informed descision.

Never experienced so much drama in my life before, when did my life get so complicated?

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Swhitey

Never experienced so much drama in my life before, when did my life get so complicated?

A relationship with a borderline includes A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation., to quote the DSM, so that can certainly seem complicated, but it's really not, because:

I'm trying to be strong and do the right thing for me, but everyone has their opinions and I am sick of other peoples judgements, but I know I need some distance from my ex to make an informed descision.

So there it is Swhitey, and you're right.  What happened most recently with your ex happened last night, brand new and fresh, and once you get some time and distance away from her, the fog will clear and you'll be able to make those informed decisions.  You're on the right track, now just follow the plan.

[Swhitey]

thank you fromheeltoheal, I appreciate the way you laid that out for me

the mixed messages i receive from her really pull a fast one on my emotions. Frustrating process, i keep cycling between hope and despair. thankfully i have a therapist who is also helping me understand and giving me a space to just be.

[Broken88]

the mixed messages i receive from her really pull a fast one on my emotions. Frustrating process, i keep cycling between hope and despair. thankfully i have a therapist who is also helping me understand and giving me a space to just be.

My ex was NICE to me, like 5 days ago, no kissing, just some hugs and we had kind of a good time... Made me break completely down, and consider suicide...

You are not alone! This is horrible to go through, and your emotions will go fcking bonkers no matter what you do. But i have now had almost no contact with my ex for almost a week, and i feel a bit better. I think this i the right way to go.

But don't beat yourself up about not being able to control your emotions, it is almost impossible in these situations... Every time we interact with them, we will get all these feelings. I never loved someone the way i loved my ex, and probably (hopefully) never will. It was not a healthy love, no matter how strong it was...

Hang in there! I believe in you

Be safe, and take the time you need to make a decision

all the best

-broken

[Swhitey]

Thank you Broken88, that sounds like a dark, scary place you were in and I am very glad you made it out of that space and shared your experience with me. I don't feel so alone, or that i'm defective in some way, and that helps! Thank you.

It's messed up how people who have boarderline structure traits can wear down people to these points. It is a whole new level of emotion. I hope one day I will fully be able to acknowlege and forgive (but not forget) that she is a person that has to live with such extreme emotional pain most of the time and really can't regulate her emotions maturely. I don't want to pity her, but on some level I do... .

That "love" that was experienced was so intense and I am begininnig to see how unhealthy it was. I'm reflecting on all the "crazy making", the goading me into arguments until I reacted in a way where she cry "why are you so defensive?" or "why are you hurting me?" I couldn't understand why at the time I was reacting the way I was and so I would feel at fault and try to please her by jumping through the hoop she wanted me to, until my sense of self had eroded away, questioning my decsisions as to not rock the boat. I'm trying to have good self talk but right now i am beating myself up sometimes saying to myself "how could you let someone do this to you? what's wrong with you?" With time I'm sure I can change the tone of those questions to "why did I allow myself to be treated this way? there's nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, but what does healthy love look like. What can I change to see it?"

After my therapy appointment last night, I'm reeling today as come to terms and accept that I have let myself been emotionally abused, which is a hard pill to swallow because I don't want to play the victim card.

[Hisaccount]

The victim card. Nobody having gone through what you have will ever think that.

It is kind of like hypnosis. At first we give willingly then once they are in we have little control over how they manipulate us.

Then you wake up one day and go wow. How did that happen?

Ever see the movie star trek generations? Lately I keep likening my relationship to that. In the movie there was an energy ribbon, called the nexus I think.
The bad guy would do anything in order to get back into the Nexus.

The nexus is a place where everything was perfect. All your dreams come true.
Problem was, none of it was real or mattered. It was just existing in a fake world.

So do you want to exist in a fake world or do you want to make a difference in a real one?

[Pretty Woman]

Well said, Hisaccount.


BPD's are masters of manipulation. Of course you didn't want any of this.

They know that.

The safest distance you can be from your ex is "emotionally" and the only way to do that is physical distance. It helps get YOU back without all the reminders and baiting.

[Broken88]

Thank you Broken88, that sounds like a dark, scary place you were in and I am very glad you made it out of that space and shared your experience with me. I don't feel so alone, or that i'm defective in some way, and that helps! Thank you.

I had suicidal thoughts before, but never like this. It was when i were 15-18, and went through a hard time as a teenager. Was always a cry for help from me...

But this is different, i really felt like i didn't want to be here anymore, and did almost crash my car on purpose... SO don't feel like you are defective! Probably we both are a bit, but the stuff you and i have gone through, are serious business... A lot of people on this site has gotten serious psychological damage from their relationships.

So don't beat yourself up ( Fcking hard i know, i am doing it to myself as well, going from "how could you let this btch get so much power over you!" to "how could you be so mean to a girl who is just being really sad and broken" ), BUT, it is not your fault, and there is nothing to do about it. But a really good idea to ask the question you posted a bit later. "Why did i allow myself to stay in this abuse?", i think the answer to this, will give you a better idea of who you are, and when and where you need to be careful.

Because if we are not careful, we will repeat this type of r/s until we get the self awareness we need...

I am writing we, because i am telling myself all of this, while i am telling it to you. I need to hear it as well... I miss her terribly... But nothing good can come from her...

Hope you can get something from my thoughts! If you want you can PM me if things are getting difficult, and i will help best i can

You can get through this! I believe in you

- Broken

[yoyo1221]

Swhitey,

It must be so hard man.  I know how you feel, going through a similar event at the moment trying to remain no contact with my wife of 6 years.  Her attempts to contact me with messages and memories gives you this little girl, loving, and kind image in your head that you truly desire.  But I know that that is not who she really is.  Its hard to know you are hurting another person.  Especially a person that you spent many emotional rollercoaster rides with.  It creates an unhealthy bond of dependence. But we have to take care of ourselves because if we don't, I believe we will never have a fulfilling life.  I've noticed I have codependency traits due to being emotionally and physically abused by my mother.  She has narcissistic personality disorder, so I was hyper-vigilant when I was young. Constantly scanning her mood to see if I was going to get hurt or not. My dad was not always around and my mom usually came to me for comfort and frustrations.  She was very loving but her narcissistic side wounded me to the core.  It was due to this that I remained in such a relationship thinking that THAT was love.  Even though it was causing me so much pain inside.  

This is a huge time for us.  It truly helps us to understand why we did some of the things we did and who we really are.  Some questions we would never even think of asking ourselves had we not had this chaotic time.  Good luck.  You are not alone.  

[rfriesen]

It is a whole new level of emotion.
... .
That "love" that was experienced was so intense and I am begininnig to see how unhealthy it was.

Really is one of the hardest things to get our minds around after it's all over, isn't it? The intensity of that emotion can (temporarily) make everything else in life pale by comparison. Then when it hits us how unhealthy an experience of love it is, it can feel like a crash landing back to reality.

Take good care of yourself and your health right now. It's a hard process moving forward, but we have the chance to build a more sustainable and firmer foundation for our happiness moving forward. The first steps are the hardest ... .

[Herodias]

So sorry for you... .this is very difficult. You will learn enough here to make your decision and what you do is your own choice. Just know that they don't change and as soon as you get back in, they are looking to get back out. Just be careful... .look out for you this time.

[Swhitey]

Thank you, everyone, for your support, and and sharing your kind words, wisdom, and experiences. This is an imense help for me in "deciding" how to help myself. I put deciding in quotations because sometimes it feels like my decisions are being made by my heart and not my logical brain. It's almost a daily occurence now. One day she is all like "I miss you, all of you! You haven't cancelled the couples counselling service yet have you? please don't" and then the next day, she starts in on all the "stuff that is the problem that I'm doing" that she wants me to change that is making her life unbearibly painful and miserable. My head spins! Anything I say unless it is specifically what she want to hear comes across as defensive and she breaks down and cries hopelessly only then to tell me what she wanted to hear and how disappointed she is that I didn't say it. In that same moment She tells me again:

Her: I miss you!

Me: I'm curious, what exactly do you miss about me?

Her: Everything about you!

Me: I'm confused, because you just told me all these things that i do / not do that you say are causing you suffering and pain. Which is it?

She couldn't really respond to that. I could tell her many things specifically that I miss and love about her, but I can only surmize that she misses the idea she has thought I am to her. She doesn't see ME for who I truly am, willing to accept my warts and all.

Since I moved out it is nice to see that she is finally taking responsibility for her owen life. Suddenly she is talking to friends, making sure the house is clean which she always expressed were things that were important to her, but what I see now is that she completely absolves herself of these responsibility to meet her social needs and home needs when I was there. I was responsible for providing those things and she made it very clear that I was not living up to her expectations. If she is capibable of doing these things now, whay the hell wasn't she doing these things when we were together? It boggles my mind. Why did I have to be the one responsible for her needs. I was set up to fail it feels like. Why would someone do that to another person. If I have a need, I will ask someone to provide it, but if they can't or unwilling to I will figure out a way of meeting that need myself if I can. I don't make it someone else's responsibility and punish them for it.

I digress, this is turning into a rant, spinning my wheels trying to wrap the logical side of my brain around, which is say "what the heck dude?" I swear if my brain had hands, it would grab me by the shoulders and start slapping me around, much like that sequence from the classic comedy "Airplane" 

Thanks for sharing everyone, it is comforting to know that I am not alone in this experience, saddens me to know that others are also expeiencing these hard times too, because it is not enjoyable and can be downright painful.

[Hisaccount]

 If she is capibable of doing these things now, whay the hell wasn't she doing these things when we were together? It boggles my mind. Why did I have to be the one responsible for her needs. I was set up to fail it feels like.

I went through the same thing. When we met her place was always clean and organized. Then she moved and her life started breaking down. She couldn't keep up unless I was there to help. Dirty laundry covered the kitchen floor, Clean laundry covered the couches, so I helped. Then I wasn't folding the towels correctly so I changed. Then I wasn't doing her laundry correctly. Then she moved in after we were married and within about 4 months she stopped everything, cooking, cleaning, everything. I always picked up the slack. But the food I made was usually wrong. Or I would ruin her clothes because I didn't wash them correctly. No appreciation for the work I did.
Now on her own she seems to be doing better, but you know deep down it will not last. This is a temporary high. Soon they will settle into who they are, retreat from friends, stop taking care of themselves and fail at their jobs.
It is a sad cycle.

When I would confront her about not doing things to help around the house she would swear she just did dishes yesterday and I never give her credit for it.
I think that when they have a caretaker and things are taken care of they dismiss it. When they are alone they have to do it.
In both instances they believe they are doing it all.

[Swhitey]

Yeah that sounds about right. When we met her place was a disaster, but she swore up and down that her last place was imacculate. She doesn't like clutter. When we moved in (and she was unemployed) I apparently did not pull my weight around the house. To her, as she so eloquently has put it many times, all she did was watch kids, clean the house and F*ck me. Ouch! So I stepped up my game around the house. After all I valued her opinion and took it to heart that maybe I wasn't pulling my weight in a partnership. I am capable of sharing the responsibility more. But the more I did the less she did. Dinner was never prepared or ready at a decent time for the kids. The grocery shiopping would not get done, dishes piled in the sink. She was good at doing the laundry although things never were folded or put away consistently. These responsibilities began to fall on me and if I didn't step up I felt that the kids would suffer. I am of the opinion that structure and routine is important for children, especially those with special needs. My priorities shifted and my goals changed, and I take ownership of not communicating it effectively to her, I assumed she would notice and apprciate it. When the goals and aspirations I wanted to explore when we moved in together shifted, I began to catch flack for breaking promises and that I was no longer the person I said I was when we first met. I used to exercise 3-4 timeas a week, I would meditate daily, I would make simple healthy meals for myself that included fresh salads and veg, I was working on connecting with my artistic expression that I had lost after a exhausting career in animation. I also indulged in chips and snacks, movies and video games too later in the evenings after all was said and done because hell, lets face it, I was single and had nothing but time and I felt I earned those things. I explained to her that things like meditation and exercise fell by the wayside because my priority shifted to stepdad role and meeting the needs of the family, when I sit down after the kids go to bet it is too late to exercise and if I meditate i'll fall asleep. I would no longer have the time to just relax with some downtime for some of the things I would do to decompress after a long day. It feels like the way she wants things to look like is that she wants a parnter who will love her kids, Has no kids of his own to take away his attention from her is a vegan yogi, who will draw her pictures and meditate with her and take her on adventures when she doesn't have her kids.

Bah! I'm ranting and wrestling with why I am cycling between hope that it will work and seeing the signs and acknowledging that it is unlikely she will be able to work on herself in a constructive way to improve this relationship (or any at this point) I am being driven a lot by my emotions lately, and it sucks. I feel sorry for her that she is always in that state, it must be perpetual hell for her if that is the case... .

[Hisaccount]

It is normal. We form such deep bonds with them. Trauma bonds I think is what I keep reading.

I have days where I know it will never work but then I have days where I want her back so badly.

It is tough to move on. But like me, you have done everything you possibly can. This is just how it is.
The saddest part is, they will never realize how good they had it, and if they do they can never admit it.

My ex says all the time she knows she is an idiot for leaving but she feels this is what she needs to do. I am a great provider and father but a poor husband.

[Swhitey]

All of that is likely true as you say, with exception of you being a poor husband, of this, I am quite certain. I'm sure you were a great husband to her. If you were a poor husband, she would not feel like an idiot for leaving. It's sounds like her last comment to you might be a projection of how she feels as a partner. Something too painful for her to admit because she knows it's true, and if she admits it, she won't be able to give in to her impulses and take responsibility which probably also causes her pain?

I see what people mean when they stuggle with closure, no rational person behaves like this. I'm sorry she said that to you. That hurts, bad.