The benefit of depression

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I never thought about the benefit of depression, people with depression see themselves and the world more realistically than a person that is not depressed. I just thought I'd share that.

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-benefit-to-depression/answer/Joe-Gladstone?srid=vh7R

[Mutt]

I never thought about the benefit of depression, people with depression see themselves and the world more realistically than a person that is not depressed. I just thought I'd share that.

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-benefit-to-depression/answer/Joe-Gladstone?srid=vh7R

[valet]

This is interesting. I think it makes sense. People that go through more hardship have a better understanding of what it takes to be happy, in my experience.

I've had a handful of episodes in my life, and all of them taught me valuable lessons in some way or another. This last one kind of takes the cake, but the benefits have been just as large as the downsides.

To play devil's advocate, however, part of survival is feeling content. We're able to function better and make decisions faster when we aren't depressed, which means that we are also more willing to make the mistakes that can provide us an opportunity to learn. Personally, I don't even know what depression is anymore. We're often filled with the preconception that depression has to be some type of gut wrenching sadness, but depending on who is suffering from it the symptoms can manifest in a variety of ways.

I don't know if it can be described as a 'realistic' outlook, because depression seems to be more about limitations and avoidance due to unaddressed fears. Realistic in the sense that the world isn't going to be handed to us on a silver platter, but self-defeating because it harms our ability to try our best. So yeah, once recovered from it can be valuable... .but that means that recovery must be the endgame. Otherwise I only see it as debilitating.

[Grey Kitty]

A friend shared this with me recently:
https://www.dailygroove.com/the-gift-of-depression/

I don't think that being clinically depressed and unable to function is good for anybody.

I do think that a period of depression can be exactly what we need to make the next step sometimes, and it may be just what we need to shake ourselves out of something we are stuck in that isn't healthy.

The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
As an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they're a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

I know I'm personally in a mildly depressed funk right now, and I'm pretty sure it is here for a very good reason, as I'm not the right things for myself in my life... .and am kinda stuck, and haven't quite figured out what I want to do instead. I'm pretty sure that this depression is what I need today.

[purekalm]

I would have to disagree. I think what some people think is depression is not, but a time in their lives when things aren't matching up "right" or the way they intended and take a step back to look at it and for a time are in a different state of being. Not depressed, but thoughtful, which could make people who don't know what depression is feel like that's what they are experiencing.

Depression, is NOT helpful at all. It is horrible. A trap. A darkness that surrounds and envelopes you, taking away all light, all goodness, all hope, happiness and drive to do anything except exist, and usually not even that but to want to die or take your own life. No one around you understands and wants you to "get over it", "buck up it's not that bad", "you can do it, I just know it", "don't be so negative and you'll be fine", "I wish you'd stop acting this way", "Grow up already, get over it, everyone has a hard time", etc.

It isn't something I'd wish on anyone because it's so debilitating, so devastating, and you don't want it to happen even less than the people around you. Personally, I've fought it for over 15 years with God's help and it's never completely left, but can be kept at bay. Issues being dealt with take away some of it's strength, but depression isn't a 'feeling' you have here and there throughout your life, it's an illness and a disease that eats away and tries to destroy your life. Please, do not mistake sadness or a time in your life where you're not sure where you should go or what you should do as depression.

I've got to go, but I just wanted to say that, even if no one else agrees with me, depression isn't an asset by any means.

[Mutt]

No one around you understands and wants you to "get over it", "buck up it's not that bad", "you can do it, I just know it", "don't be so negative and you'll be fine", "I wish you'd stop acting this way", "Grow up already, get over it, everyone has a hard time", etc.

That's tough. I'm sorry that you went through that. I can relate with that. I'd never heard validation in the context that we use here, I grew up in an invalidating environment and it was tough being invalidated constantly.

A month after my ex wife had left, it was the most difficult life evnt the I had gone through, I was really depressed and contemplated taking my own life because my family is not supportive and I can't depend on them.

Anyways, I couldn't do that to the kids, they needed me there an they needed me to return to form. My sister had come over to my house to visit and she said "Get over it!" I thought wow, this is my support system. I just lost family, my marriage is over because of an affair. If she were a T she'd be out of business prwetty quick  

What I learned from that experience is to make a new family, friends that don't invalidate or judge you, keep them real close and share your thoughts and feelings with them and don't share it with family / friends that invalidate. Sometimes people don't know what to say, sometimes they mean well but words can hurt.

[enlighten me]

Hi Mutt

You've raised an interesting thought for me. What is the purpose of depression?

Every emotion has a purpose so what is the purpose of depression?

I just did a quick search and came across this.

www.lifehacker.com/5483797/the-evolutionary-reason-for-depression

[purekalm]

Hello Mutt,

Anyways, I couldn't do that to the kids, they needed me there an they needed me to return to form. My sister had come over to my house to visit and she said "Get over it!" I thought wow, this is my support system. I just lost family, my marriage is over because of an affair.

  I'm sorry you went through that with so little compassion. You had every reason to be feeling that way after all that.   

Sometimes people don't know what to say, sometimes they mean well but words can hurt.

Yes, I understand. The worst part is when you HAVE told them, and you already feel horrible for needing help and dealing with it and you want more than anything yourself to "get over it" and they act like you shouldn't be this way anymore and so you try your best to hide it and well, it never ends well.

Enlighten me,

I read the article and I think it needs work. When someone is depressed they DON'T see things more clearly, they actually see them through a darkened lens and make WORSE decisions because of it. After they are able to function properly again then yes, they can make better decisions, but while being depressed they will almost always make horrible decisions. I'm not the only person I know who suffers from this and everyone deals with it differently, but I have yet to see anyone depressed make a good decision. You know what is common though? Wanting to die or commit suicide because of feeling worthless and useless.

I talked to my brother about this and when I asked him if he thought there was any benefit to depression he was like "Are you just joking with me or are you actually asking such a stupid question?" The only positive he mentioned is that people who are depressed for long periods of time, not just situational depression where a horrible situation activated it and it goes away with time, usually have a higher mental capacity. Like, can and do think more of the bigger picture, everything, not just their situation, but the world as a whole. Our reason for existing and all that sort of stuff. There are many reasons and types of depression from what I gather.

I don't know if I would describe depression as an emotion though, since it numbs and intensifies different emotions to work. There are benefits to being sad, afraid, happy, angry and the like, but depression isn't a natural instinctive reaction to people, situations or objects. Except in the case of situational depression or PTSD where your body shuts down or shuts off certain emotions so you can cope for the moment. The problem persists when you don't know that's happened and live your life with split emotions not dealing with that instance and the depression becomes debilitating pretty quickly. There's so many things you could get into here how our minds and bodies work in all different types of circumstances, but I don't see a benefit in depression, no matter how hard I look. Maybe what they call 'mild' depression, but deep, major depressive, it's like a freaking black hole and if you don't fight it you'll just stay there and rot away.

[steelwork]

purekalm, I have to agree with you about the distorting lens of depression. It's like looking at the world through sh*t-colored glasses. I have heard elsewhere that depressed people tend to see the world more accurately. That's THE WORLD, not their own lives. Depression is a weapon turned on oneself.

What is the purpose of depression? I guess if you trace it all the way back, it must once have had some protective purpose for children who lived in a world of broken attachments. But, as with so many emotional illnesses, it's something that keeps going long after it's outlived its purpose. That's the where the work is: to adjust our inner lives to present circumstances.

[enlighten me]

Hi Pure

I also agree that the article has many flaws. One thing it does highlight is how we obsess on a subject matter. After finding that one (as I wasn't overly impressed) I looked further. There was another article about genes saying there is a link between the healing gene and depression. This made more sense as when we are ill we get depressed. So maybe depression is a side effect of healing? It could be that we feel so run down and lethargic to help us heal. As a sort of safety mechanism to prevent us doing more damage.

I don't know but there must be a reason for it. I cant see that the human race has only just developed it after thousands of years. Or maybe its the appendix of emotions and its practical use has died out?

[purekalm]

steelwork,

Exactly, the world is different than your own personal perception of your life and yourself, which is usually pretty crappy at that point.

enlighten me,

That's an interesting take I must say, but that still only fits with situational depression. Otherwise, that would mean that others and myself have been healing for over 15 years at this point? Also, at the same time, usually depressed people do MORE damage, not less and permanent damage. Whether it's cutting, doing something dangerous and irrational, giving up and doing nothing or deciding to end their lives as they feel they aren't worth living or see no purpose in it.

I agree that it's not something just discovered. Even the Bible references extremely sad feelings related to depression, King David especially. I think it's a lot of things, but I still fail to see where major depression is helpful. If I even take a look at my own life all it's done is help me to loathe myself and everything about me even more. I'm never good enough and the fact that I still struggle with depression causes it to pop back up and try to destroy more of what I've got left. People can deal with others who have situational depression and are 'cured' in a normal amount of time. The people who suffer for years, those are the ones who aren't tolerated because by now, they should be ok.

I think another issue is when there are other illnesses or issues besides the person having depression, like PTSD, other mental illnesses, family history, physical impairments, genetics, disorders. Each individual is unique and most want a one size fits all answer, because that's easy. They can say, well, this is almost guaranteed to work so now that's in it's place, let's work on something else. Everyone has a different biological makeup with similarities as well as a different family, social, physical and mental history, so what works for most to heal, won't work for everyone. It's just the way it is. I think it's adequate to say that depression is caused by a myriad of things as well as dealt with a myriad of ways, but it's not beneficial to anyone who has experienced it for a significant amount of time. If someone who has had major depressive disorder for a long period of time feels differently, I'd love to discuss it. It's an important and interesting topic to me and I by no means have all the facts or information.

Thanks for starting this topic Mutt. 

[enlighten me]

I totally agree pure. I cannot see the benefit of deep depression. If the healing link is true then it could just be something is not causing it to turn off when it should. We see this with auto immune problems where the immune system starts attacking the body because it doesn't know when to stop. For the life of me though I don't know and wouldn't like to speculate on the benefits of depression.

[purekalm]

Hey EM,

I also considered that since with me and some others who have a lot to heal from it's possible in a sense I guess. Can't really rule it out completely as a possibility.

We see this with auto immune problems where the immune system starts attacking the body because it doesn't know when to stop.

This could also be true with major depressive disorder because it's no longer a benefit by any means and is actually destroying any benefit that being thoughtful, sad and taking a different perspective could do.

I don't believe there are any benefits of depression, at the very least, not major depressive disorder at all. That's why I originally commented because people use the word so nonchalantly (not anyone that posted) like it's just another emotion and I don't believe so. It is, after all, my opinion on the matter only. I sure don't see changing it any time soon though.

[steelwork]

What is the purpose of depression?

Every emotion has a purpose so what is the purpose of depression?

I think this is the disconnect for me. Depression can describe an emotion--like, a type of sadness--but the condition of depression is not merely an emotion. You might as well ask what the purpose of BPD is. Sure, it's maybe part biological vulnerability, part adaptation to tough circumstances.

[enlighten me]

I think this is the disconnect for me. Depression can describe an emotion--like, a type of sadness--but the condition of depression is not merely an emotion. You might as well ask what the purpose of BPD is. Sure, it's maybe part biological vulnerability, part adaptation to tough circumstances.

For the purpose of breeding BPD is pretty good. Attracts partners. gets cared for and trades in partners to diversify the gene pool.

[Grey Kitty]

We see this with auto immune problems where the immune system starts attacking the body because it doesn't know when to stop. For the life of me though I don't know and wouldn't like to speculate on the benefits of depression.

I do view it this way... .here is an analogy:

When your immune system is fighting an internal infection, you feel weak, crummy, achy, no appetite, and have no energy. None of those things are "good", but the natural result of them is--you feel like lying in bed, and not using your body's energy running around, digesting food, or anything but letting your immune system fight the internal infection. I believe that the elevated fever temperature also helps fight bacteria off, 'tho I'm not sure. Not as useful as antibiotics, but it does help.

And when the fever hits 104 and is rising, this helpful system is now making things worse, and needs to be slowed down/stopped.

Depression is kinda like a spiritual immune system, and its job is to tell you that you are living your life in a way that is destructive and/or unfulfilling. You are making some really bad choices for yourself. Time to slow down, not do anything, really feel and think about it, and make different choices.

I've read some research that depressed people compared to non-depressed people are more accurate at assessing their chances of success, with non-depressed people apparently wearing rose colored glasses.

If you are feeling blue for a few weeks, and realize that you picked the wrong career and hate your life, and then get through it with the resolve to go back to school and become a nurse like you wish you had realized earlier, that's a benefit.

If you get stuck unable to do anything for months or years, depression, like the 104+ fever, this natural response is running amok and is hurting you not helping you.

[steelwork]

I advise not conflating depression with "the blues" or worldview (realism) with self-view.

[Curiously1]

Every emotion or psychological state benefits us in ways based on what we currently believe about ourselves.
There is benefit in understanding your depression but there is no benefit in staying in depression.
Emotions and how we think about ourselves overall influences how we feel most of the time.
Positive self-talk and taking actions that make you feel good about yourself combats depression.

[steelwork]

But depression is not an emotion. 

[Curiously1]

But depression is not an emotion.  

but there are moods associated with depression. Change it to mood then. You change the way you think about yourself and the situation to combat depression. That is challenging and takes time to get out of. How can you change something you dont understand or know the best way to get better from?
Physically speaking, does depression benefit your body in anyway?
depression often stems from learnt helplessness

Just a quick definition from wiki

":)epression is a state of low mood and aversion to activity or apathy that can affect a person's thoughts, behavior, feelings and sense of well-being.[1][2]

People with a depressed mood can feel sad, anxious, empty, hopeless, helpless, worthless, guilty, irritable, angry,[3] ashamed or restless. They may lose interest in activities that were once pleasurable, experience loss of appetite or overeating, have problems concentrating, remembering details or making decisions, experience relationship difficulties and may contemplate, attempt or commit suicide. Insomnia, excessive sleeping, fatigue, aches, pains, digestive problems or reduced energy may also be present"

[steelwork]

That is the definition definition of depressed mood. Depression is also a medical illness.

Would you call BPD a mood?

[Moselle]

Mutt. This is a great topic.

I think depression is sadness on steroids, but if the depression is intense, the solution to the problem might be just as intense. To quote one of the articles:

 "A theme emerged from biographical studies of British writers and artists by Kay Redfield Jamison, a professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins, who found that successful individuals were eight times as likely as people in the general population to suffer from major depressive illness."

I actually hadn't consciously considered the positive aspects of depression until this post, but in my short perusing of the articles and on reflection of my own experience I am led to suggest the following the benefits of depression:

1. An indicator that what I am doing is wrong for me. A marriage, career, life path. Depression puts the brakes on and forces a decision.

2. Decision making. I believe depression indicates to us what is wrong. If it ain't broke, we won't be depressed. So its an indicator that we've made a wrong decision somewhere. The sooner we figure out which decision was wrong, there's no need for depression. When we start to make good decisions we can move out of the depressive state.

3. Forces focus on the cause of the depression. We ruminate, we obsess on the topic at hand. We do the work to figure the problem out.

I also understand the negative health risks like suicide and inaction.

It seems depression can be a double edged sword depending on how we see it.

[purekalm]

I have to agree with steelwork. It's not something you can easily explain away just because it fits. I may seem biased because I've been suffering from it for so long, but you'd be wrong. I've wanted the easy ways out.

Oh, so I'm just feeling down then? I just need to rethink my life and then act on it and I'll finally stop suffering? Oh, well if that doesn't work then positive self talk is going to fight it for me? But wait, now you're saying I'm just basking in the breeze of 'learned helplessness' when I've fought my whole life just to survive, let alone be sane if I make it anywhere? Maybe, this new study or that new pill or enough sunlight or if I could, should, would just... .?

Simple answers from those who do not understand the pain and torment of someone who is majorly depressed is patronizing. Like dumping a pot of boiled water on someone who's been sunburned. Most mean well, I understand, it's like anything else out there. You offer, in good conscience and faith I hope to believe, a possible remedy or balm for something that's complex.

Mild depression is the topic here, because it would have the benefits that people describe. Major depression, where's the answer? What's the remedy? Where is the cause? Why are so many afflicted that differ in age, ethnicity, gender and geological position? Is there a one size fits all? The why's are maddening, and no short, underfunded, highly subjective and un diversified study is going to come anywhere near close to an answer for any of it.

Depression, to me, is many layered. It encircles many things and coalesced into what we call major depressive disorder. There's no easy answer, but I believe there is a way out eventually, with a ton of work and effort. Which, you can imagine, for someone who is seriously depressed will take time.

I read somewhere recently someone commenting with "I just can't but think how little depressed people have done for the world." I laughed to myself, because that person must not know that most geniuses who have created the base of things they use in their everyday lives were depressed and had other disabilities as well. One might ask any one person what have YOU done for the world besides live out YOUR daily life thinking of YOUR life and YOUR future and no one else's WITHOUT depression?

I am not implying that every depressed person is a genius or has/will contribute majorly to society. Only to say that irrespective of whether you have a mental/physical illness you can/cannot contribute to society. It's each individual that matters, not illness or age or any of the other things that people look at for status symbols of worth.

[steelwork]

Well said, purekalm.

[Grey Kitty]

I would like to apologize to you, purekalm, and anybody else who suffers from major depression or clinical depression.

When I say that depression appears to have a benefit or a purpose, I mean that I believe that it is a natural process that is ultimately beneficial to people in general, when it is working properly. Like having an immune system. I do not mean that YOUR depression is something good for you. I know people with auto-immune disorders. Their immune system is harmful to them. Just like your depression is harmful to you.

If depression goes on for months or years (instead of days or weeks, conceivably months in extreme situations), I'm pretty sure it isn't working as something healthy and productive.

I never intended to say anything like this to you, and apologize if anything I wrote came out this way:

Oh, so I'm just feeling down then? I just need to rethink my life and then act on it and I'll finally stop suffering? Oh, well if that doesn't work then positive self talk is going to fight it for me? But wait, now you're saying I'm just basking in the breeze of 'learned helplessness' when I've fought my whole life just to survive, let alone be sane if I make it anywhere? Maybe, this new study or that new pill or enough sunlight or if I could, should, would just... .?

I know what you are suffering from is real. I count myself very lucky that I do not suffer the same thing you do, and have no reason to believe I would be stronger than you or handle it better if I did.

[purekalm]

Grey Kitty,

No need to apologize at all. I'm not one of those people who are forever damaged by someone else's opinion. I would rather someone be open and honest and not forever trying to retract their statements to make it appear acceptable to everyone they can think of. I've lived a lot of my life 'walking on eggshells' for my dad, husband and the dag on never satisfied world and it's ridiculous. I think we are all entitled to our opinions and unfortunately without a ton of emojis it's hard to convey how I'm feeling when I write. I didn't mean to make anyone upset and wasn't upset when I wrote it. I was just... .musing... .I guess about it all.

I have to agree that depression to the mild degree that most are talking about is highly valuable. It can help them direct their lives onto a better course they might not even have considered without stopping to focus on the problem.

I know what you are suffering from is real.

I wish it wasn't. I wish I knew how I could get rid of it right now and if it would work for all who suffer to share it immediately.

I'm not some self important person either who thinks that no one could 'do it better' in a sense. On the contrary, that's part of the depression at times wondering why I'm so freaking weak and others can function normally while I can't? I end up telling myself that if they lived my life maybe they would have been able to make better choices and ended up better off instead of how I chose and ended up to this point. The irony of it is my sisters telling me that they believe I'm a strong person and couldn't have lived my life for one reason or another and my brother telling me I'm the strongest person he knows, and, I don't see that at all, honestly. I see a weak screw up. It feels like, even since I was a child I've lived life on the inside looking out, trying to figure out life almost as if I didn't even exist in it myself.

Ah, either way. There's no need to apologize, you've done nothing wrong and neither has anyone else. It's a discussion and people get up in arms about stuff when really, if you get too angry or something you should calm down before you reply because we're all entitled to our opinions, feelings, but how we express them to others should be in as constructive a way as possible. Online it's difficult, until someone makes tones and not just emojis. =)

[Mutt]

I want to thank everyone that's joined the discussion so far. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression about a year ago. My life made sense after the diagnosis, if I look back I was probably depressed as a teen and I recall depression and panic disorder in my early twenties. I've had many bouts of depression over the years, sometimes I didn't realize I was depressed unless someone else pointed it out or I could have been in it for a couple of years. My exBPDw had mentioned that she thought that I was depressed, I denied it because I resented her.

Depression is insidious, it's debilitating, it can be incredibly difficult to function sometimes, you're bombarded with negative thoughts, I wish that I could control, it helps learn about mood disorders, it normalizes it and you understand why your mind is acting certain ways. For example, anxiety is normal it helps warn you of danger but it becomes a problem when it doesn't shut itself off or there's no immediate threat.

I wanted to talk about something other than PD's, I wanted to talk about mood disorders. I was thinking of how I affect others in r/s in the context of depression because you push people that you're close to away. For awhile, I was slowly becoming detached from family and friends and didn't realize it and it was because anxiety and depression.

[enlighten me]

I too have suffered from time to time with depression. Recognising it for me was key to dealing with it. No motivation, snapping at people, easily irritated etc. Once I identified it then it was the case for me to figure out the cause (normally money). Then dealing with the cause. Sometimes you can sort the problem out other times you have to accept theres nothing you can do and try to not let it affect you. Positive actions improved it for me.

Its the ruminating that seems to do the harm IMO. Its like you are constantly trying to find an answer when there isn't one or there isn't one that you like. For example when I was wanting to split from my uBPD exgf (I now realise I was depressed). I couldn't sleep and all I wanted to do was get away from her but couldn't bring myself to end it. My mind went over every scenario time and again but there wasn't one where I could have my cake and eat it. In the end I finished with her and left. It took a little while to be fully over it but that first night apart I slept. I woke up feeling better than I had in a long time.

Maybe this is the thing that doesn't stop for people who suffer deep depression? They cant find the answer so cant stop ruminating.

[Moselle]

Maybe this is the thing that doesn't stop for people who suffer deep depression? They cant find the answer so cant stop ruminating.

I think when we are depressed we don't even know there is a question, let alone answer.

Processing, structure, reflection and talking it through with a therapist can be a great help

[enlighten me]

I think when we are depressed we don't even know there is a question, let alone answer.

Processing, structure, reflection and talking it through with a therapist can be a great help

And that is why identifying the problem was the biggest step in dealing with it for me.

[purekalm]

Mutt,

I can relate. I was never officially diagnosed, but like you, I still suffered. Were you ever able to tell anyone that you suffered from depression so that they might recognize it and try not to take it personally when you withdraw? Or better yet, may even contribute to helping you break free from it?

When I first got with my husband I told him upfront that he probably shouldn't be with me because I suffered from depression and I'm a totally different person than what he knows and I explained it briefly. He didn't understand and he's told me since then he thought I meant like when most people say they are depressed and are really just really sad or something and are fine again fairly quickly. Even telling him what would help me didn't help because he wouldn't do it, he just got mad at me and eventually pretty snide and aggravated putting me down for it. Once saying that he "might get upset about stuff but not enough to get depressed about it, I mean, come on" with a very snarky attitude. I did my best to hide it, but sometimes I couldn't.

For me, knowing the question and answer, working to fix it isn't the problem. There are a ton of things from my childhood that caused it and I've worked hard on them. Things from my marriage and the craziness of the last almost eight years, and I've worked and continue to work on them. It doesn't stop it. My general mood since I was a teenager is depressed. The severity comes and goes, but it's been a constant no matter what I do. The ironic thing is, even when I think I'm in a general good mood and things aren't so bad Skip posts that test about are you depressed? and when I was feeling ok it was 53 and two days before that I was feeling pretty down and it was a 63. I really thought I would've scored lower.