Nc fail... how I dealt...

[ynwa]

So I went three days no contact.  Longest in 3 years.  It was New Years night, and after spending a quiet night with a friend I was going home.  I jokingly said, what are the odds of a drunken phone call before or after 3 am.   It was 230. Unintelligible and weird,  I listened for a couple seconds and hung up.  I'm NC, and i don't really need to deal with her.   She called again a bit later, she was outside and upset, she couldn't find her keys, to our own apartment.  She wanted to come up and I decided that it was fine.  

Straight away I could see how upset she was. I remained calm, and just dealt with it.  She did actually get quite agitated and physical but again calm, turned sideways.  She was drunk, but i could see she was testing me.  I don't want to go into details, but she stayed until a couple hours ago. We talked, and I let her sleep. It was like having a mini shapshot of our future.  Her anger when I didn't think sex was a good idea, but obvious reasons, just not to her. Her pure sadness just minutes later.  

When we talked I remained calm and agreed with her feelings but did not when necessary.  She and I have a connection, but the need for a caretaker vs caring is obvious.  While its not difficult to detach and be soothing, it's not possible for me to change her disorder.

What also helped is I started taking an anti-depressant, which I know is not supposed to work until at least a few days. I actually felt better within an hour or so.  I'm totally aware I'm not "better" but my racing thoughts and fixed working mind is easier.  

I'm stuck now between detaching and deciding.  Being with her, I felt compassion and love, but also feeling like this is something I might be able to sustain.  She is clearly very depressed and anxious, which I understand. She is living away from our home. (Her fault for cheating). But she went further and described a lot of things like (I'm always like this) and (it feels like if I just keep moving, I'll be ok).

I talked gently about not using the xanax and ringing, because it doesn't help with the depression.  She doesn't want "that", and therapy is "not the answer".  She actually described two friends as "medicated" for using anti-depression meds. She clearly doesn't see the irony in the amount she drinks and uses pills.  

I'm aware this is a process.  That I have to put myself first in this and be clear in what i want. For the first time, I'm totally sure that she may not be part of my future as anything.  

Edit:  i forgot to add this.  From her most agitated and upset and drunk, the push and pull was the most obvious and lessened as she calmed down.  I spoke to her about this, gently and not all at once. But seeing it happen and not responding, I almost understand why my behaviors and my responsibility for the relationship seemed so extreme to her.  She made good points and was able to ask for things in a manner I understood and not as demands.

Can you guys ask me some questions, because I'm sure how I am explaining it is a bit unclear.

[formflier]

I think that many times LC is better than NC.  It allows us to clearly see small bits of the dysfunction.

Even when snonkered ... .they do what they do.  That should show you how deeply a part of their personality this is.

FF

[ynwa]

It allows us to clearly see small bits of the dysfunction.

This is what i have been working with today.  After she left, I let that understanding play over how she let me make her dinner, calm her down, and have me be concerned for her.  I can she is clearly distressed and sad. But I kept in the back of my mind, that her story to friends that "I wasn't there for her" and that she is continuing to talk and hang out with my replacement. because of course he is interested in a girl that was "hurt" by big bad me... .

she can hold that black brush whenever she wants.  I'm taking it at face value, that she simply knows I'd take care of her and be there.  But only when she asks.  I was compassionate and honest with someone that hurt me, lied to me and in a sense broke my heart.   I'm not the cold, insensitive and angry man she led me to believe. 

Im still conflicted but I'm also detaching.   Does that make sense?

[formflier]

It appears to me that you are still making decisions based... .In part... .Of what she may think and tell others.

What did you get out of taking care of her?

FF

[ynwa]

Yes I am thinking of what she tells others because we share friends. And it bad enough to go through this and then have to defend myself to them.  I can't defend things that simply aren't true. And maybe it's my pride.

What i got out of taking care of her?  I didn't really get anything.  She was distressed and i care for her, so did what I would do for anyone?  I was able to see her hurting and see my actions help. it was calming for me and a lesson in compassion?  But it didnt make me think this would help our relationship work, because it's one sided. I realized that she is probably having her friends and the new guy cater to her while she "struggles" with her "breakup".

It feels like I should be writing more.  But there isn't.  I don't feel the emotions about this.  It feels like I saw the real her, and that behind it there isn't much there.  How I felt days ago, to now is not the same.  It's almost annoying. Maybe I'm just tilting into the anger phase?

I would end with this, most obvious by her actions is she is fine when she gets what she feels she needs and wants, and when someone doesn't do that, they get the treatment.  I'm done being the target.

[formflier]

Can you tell us, in detail, about the last time you "had to" defend yourself to one of your friends?

I've got some thoughts on this, but want to make sure I understand how this actually plays out.

FF

[ynwa]

Since we separated, I have not really had to defend myself to them. In fact, no one has contacted me at all and confronted me about anything.

I would walk in the room, especially in the first weeks and feel judged.  I did really try to explain, and reexplain what had happened.  I realize now perhaps that is a bit of my pride or ego.  But I needed validation. I obviously wasn't getting it from my SO, in fact I was usually getting the opposite.

I have been defending myself to my SO, proving to her that I'm not the things she said I wasn't.  But more and more I realize that what I'm defending or thinking others think of me is coming from my SO. She knows how to play into my insecurities and deflect off of hers.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, because I'm seeing that I was getting played.  I'm lonely without her, I miss her and how i felt with her. She knew that, and she knew I would be able to make her feel ok, with little in return.

[formflier]

Did they say anything to "make you feel judged?"

[ynwa]

Did they say anything to "make you feel judged?"

No, not really.  I did at first try to really argue my case. I've been defending myself to my ex for so long and been in that mode, that I think it carried over to conversations about this to them.  She had painted me as ANGRY, CONTROLLING, ARGUMENTATIVE and she definitely did not express details correctly.

I realize that was a lot in my head and they have told me that much.
I get freaked out that she had that much control of my thinking.

What has struck me as odd, is the friends she is staying with and getting the support from at this point are work friends, people I don't know as well. People that don't interact with her long time friends.  She explained to me the other day, that the work friends "don't think I'm supportive". That I'm not "there for her"

I know it's bullsh** from her, because I was there supporting her, like I always have. Where I'm at today, is that she plays it how she wants.  I fell for that for too long.

[formflier]

What do you think the chances are that what, if anything, her "work friends" have said about you is anywhere close to what she has told you that they have said about you?

FF

[ynwa]

I think there is the rub.  My blind spot if you will.  My inner voice knows that whatever they have said, is probably filtered back to suit her.

The things that embarrass me like not having sex, the constant fighting, the physical abuse, the issues with her drinking.  Which to the outside looks like I was just an a**hole boyfriend. Even putting the details here seems like I'm still trying to validate myself, so I won't.  I honestly can't tell how much of this was my fault or if my gut feeling that at important points in our relationship she couldn't cope and take responsibility.

I know that I am feeling loss. Loss of self respect, loss of my ability to keep this relationship.  And sometimes relationships fail.  

At the end of the day, i fought and tried like hell to keep this relationship.  I'm faced with six months off work, a shoulder surgery, and am going to have to keep fighting and trying like hell to get her out of my life.  

I have a few friends, I have some ideas, but I feel like a failure and anything I do feels like I'm just trying to ignore the failure and "get through the day". Everything feels forced. The one person I want to talk to, be with, cry and laugh with isn't here.  Possibly was never there.   I can't escape it.  It's slowed down, and my depression is lessening, with the pills so the spikes aren't so heavy and overwhelming. I can tell that I'm sad and can separate feelings.

But still feels like an impossible decision with no good endings.  I lose her or I lose me... .

[formflier]

But still feels like an impossible decision with no good endings.  I lose her or I lose me... .

So... .are there other endings that are good?

What if you made healthy relationship decisions and after 6 months... .she decided to join you in a healthy r/s?

What if same thing, but she decided to not join you, yet you remained true to yourself and made decisions that are healthy for you?

Do you see both of those last two things as "not a good ending"?

FF

[ynwa]

I read your reply last night. And decided to sleep on it.  My reply was clearly over dramatic and came from how I feel this morning, and every morning.  Waking up realizing she's gone, is just how I'm going to feel for a long time. Faced with 5-6 months off work, recovery from surgery, unable to work.  And I'm overwhelmed.  At 6am there aren't a lot of people you can call and say HELP. 

I have fought and tried to keep my relationship together.
I am going to have to fight and try to stay away.

That is my impossible decision. Im time, it will feel different, maybe.
But she left me because of (insert BPD bollocks) and because (other reasons).

If you are asking me am I ready to move on.  No, clearly.
Can I say that and deny that I'm not completely sure of healthy?
That she either can't explain or doesn't understand she has an issue?
She came close twice the other night to hitting me, she was pushing, testing. As though to prove to herself the broken image she has of me in her mind. When that passed, she wanted to have sex, and I knew that was wrong, which led to another pushing, and shoving, calling me a lesbian, dickless, etc. she turned when she didn't get what she wanted.

My responses were healthy. They were honest. And her dyregulation and anxiety are clear. 6 months won't "fix" that.

I'm losing her, I'm losing a part of my life I hold dear. I have to purposely ignore she exists.  While all the while still thinking of a way to reach her.  But more and more I'm seeing that it's reaching me, that she isn't worth it.  She is a child, for whatever reason.  A child that is mean and a bully, that knows how to hurt someone and walk away. 

I'm searching for the "good ending" Flier.  I really am.  My life hasn't ended. I'm not totally alone.  I'm trying to get on stable footing.  It's getting easier to stay there, in the neutral space. 

[babyducks]

Hi ynwa,

I think there are some good insights in your posts here.   You are doing some good work.   I had a couple of thoughts as I read your posts.

You are grieving your loss.   The emotions/hopes/dreams were very real and very deep.   The loss of them hurts.   This is hard stuff.    When a ~normal~ (whatever normal is) relationship ends there is grief and loss in recognizable acceptable patterns.   When a relationship that had so many ups and downs that it never really established a stable bond ends the grieving process is different.   We struggle to make sense of things.   Replay them in our heads.   Look for that stability that was never really present.

I am going to suggest it's normal to be overwhelmed.   Actually I think it would be a little weird if you weren't.    There are real, significant, important things going on.    Be kind to yourself as much as you can.

The other thing I noticed was she came close to hitting you.   I know that she has done that in the past.  I am sorry you were on the receiving end of that.    I have had some experience along those lines myself and here is what I learned.   Physical altercations occur on a spectrum, on the spectrum there is two points, the action point and the flash over point.   The flash over point is pretty easy to understand, that's were something triggering flashes over into a violent action.   Usually the flash over point occurs in seconds and is beyond the control of the parties involved.   Reactions become instinctive and protective.    If I poked you in the hand with the pencil I am holding you would flinch away.   It's not a conscious thought.   It's very much the same in a flash over point.   Logic, reasoning are pretty much out the window.   I would suggest you be aware of that.   The other point on the spectrum is the action point.   That is when the doors are being slammed, the voice is going up, the signs and signals are there of something coming.  That's where action can be logical and thought out, its helpful to say "I am at an action point, what is the best thing I can do here."   Thinking this through before you need it is a good idea.   You may never need it.  I hope you don't.    It's good to have some ideas already formed just in case though.

It's okay to be conflicted about what you want.    Getting on stable footing is an excellent goal.   Nobody here can or should tell you what stable looks like for you.   I would think that taking care of you, before, during and after surgery is a good first step.

'ducks

[ynwa]

Thank you Ducks for your input as well as Flier,

I am on as stable footing as I can be. I actually look forward to the surgery as a challenge. Living alone, finding myself able to the things that I'd like input from my loved one are weird. But I'm doing them, I went to a botanical garden yesterday with a friend and while I wished SHE was there with me, at others I had feelings of it being ok. That I could be more myself without her, not worrying about things.  

And I'm getting used to waking up and my first thought is her. Call her, reach her, and just saying no. Closing my eyes and sleeping. Part of that is depression and I'm aware that you can't force those thoughts out. But I'm not letting myself get stuck there either.  I've proved myself to her over and over, to a point of physical and mental exhaustion. Its a shame that happened, and that I wasn't myself for her. But she caused that, yes I was a willing participant in the relationship but not in the the way I intended or am built for.

The long term will take care of itself, as I work on the present issues. The irony is that the more I learn, the more I'd be able to work or try to work through her disorder.

I can give one example of our relationship dynamic.  I get up early for work, 4:45 usually, she works sometimes until 11. She doesn't sleep well (obviously), and when I get up it's best to let her sleep. One morning she woke up and complained I didn't kiss her goodbye. It seemed abrupt, and at the time it seemed a weird request. I simply didn't want to wake her up.  She (in hindsight) at been wanting this for awhile (for whatever reason) and had a conversation in her head but not with me.  And I began doing that every day, sometimes she would wake up, sometimes not.  Probably one day, I woke up late and forgot.  She talked about it later, and made it seem like "I didn't love her".  And she brought it up again, the last time she was here, amongst other things.  A bunch if instances I had failed her and knew that I could not take away. And because I was "detaching", I wasn't defending or coming back with similar instances on her part. In the scheme of a normal relationship, her request isn't unreasonable.  But knowing now, that anything I do whether or on purpose or just because in this instance I was late for work, is to her a far bigger issue.  Because it is not something that can be resolved. I've out similar requests to her, and they just don't seem to have resonance.  

These little things bug me, because I'm going through it, half torn to want to go back and "fix them" and the other because they are one sided.

And that isn't even taking into account the drinking,the bullying, the lack of responsibility.  And oh yeah how many times can I let her hit me and attack me before even by accident she gets hurt. And I get arrested. I've never gotten around the hitting and then making herself the victim for it.  That's it's entirely my fault she was so out of control.  

And I ramble.  Because I am conflicted and I'm detaching, and that's fine.
I'm not going to wake up tommorow and feel different, but I'm getting there.

[babyducks]

Hi ynwa,

What I have been told about waking up with strong almost overwhelming thoughts is my subconscious brain trying to make sense of some internal conflict.   I did it for a while.    And it seemed that the first waking thought I had was so brilliant so  that I started writing them down.    Amazing what came out of my unguarded brain.   I ended up learning a lot about me.

I can give one example of our relationship dynamic.  I get up early for work, 4:45 usually, she works sometimes until 11. She doesn't sleep well (obviously), and when I get up it's best to let her sleep. One morning she woke up and complained I didn't kiss her goodbye. It seemed abrupt, and at the time it seemed a weird request. I simply didn't want to wake her up.  She (in hindsight) at been wanting this for awhile (for whatever reason) and had a conversation in her head but not with me.  And I began doing that every day, sometimes she would wake up, sometimes not.  Probably one day, I woke up late and forgot.  She talked about it later, and made it seem like "I didn't love her".  And she brought it up again, the last time she was here, amongst other things.  A bunch if instances I had failed her and knew that I could not take away. And because I was "detaching", I wasn't defending or coming back with similar instances on her part. In the scheme of a normal relationship, her request isn't unreasonable.  But knowing now, that anything I do whether or on purpose or just because in this instance I was late for work, is to her a far bigger issue.  Because it is not something that can be resolved. I've out similar requests to her, and they just don't seem to have resonance. 

pwBPD don't believe they are lovable.   and so they create self fulfilling prophecies.   what is that old saying?   the man who is full of love sees love everywhere,  the man who is full of money sees money everywhere, the man who is sad, finds sadness everywhere.

pwBPD are looking for that proof that you don't love them, and will disappoint and hurt them.   People being human and imperfect eventually do disappoint and hurt.    And suddenly you aren't that white knight in shining armor any more.  you aren't perfect and that is frightening and upsetting to a pwBPD.   

I did some really stupid things in my r/s,   times when I was stressed, tired, not feeling well and collapsed with my own depression and frustration.    there were times I failed badly.    what I think today is that if by some stroke of magic I could have done it all perfectly she still would have sabotaged the r/s.    It's what she is programmed to do.    It's tragic really.    She can't see another way.

The thought occurs to me you are right about the hitting.   she may get hurt by accident.   in many states the law says at a Domestic Violence call some one must be arrested.   It's often the man because of gender bias.   Be careful of that.

These little things bug me, because I'm going through it, half torn to want to go back and "fix them" and the other because they are one sided.

What do you think it means that you want to go back and fix them?

'ducks

[ynwa]

I used "fix" loosely, if even to illustrate that there is little I can do.  And you are very right in saying that at some point she would have "blown it up".  No matter how long I'd kept the plates spinning,nthey would have crashed eventually.

Making sense of this, is difficult. Making sense of how I'm feeling is difficult. I didn't text her today, but eventually she did. Asking if her cat should have a thunder shirt because he is neurotic. I told her it was a good idea, and we discussed sizes. That was that.  Weird. No hello, no other conversation.  I eventually texted back, that I was around if she needed to talk. But I didn't know what to say.  She replied the same.   I asked her if she went out in the snow, she went to a gym and had a jacuzzi.  She ended it with, "I was nice".  Which is nothing she would normally say unless she is in that waif, little girl place where she is just off.   I'm not trying to overthink it, but it is odd.

As for the physical aspect, I do have to realize that she might be more dysregulated than normal with me, but putting a face on with others.  I don't know.  

Even as I get further space, more pops into my head, thankfully with less emotion and a small understanding that her traits drive her.  More so, that so much I did stuff inside is coming out.  

[formflier]

Good job waiting!   

FF

[babyducks]

  I asked her if she went out in the snow, she went to a gym and had a jacuzzi.  She ended it with, "I was nice".  Which is nothing she would normally say unless she is in that waif, little girl place where she is just off.   I'm not trying to overthink it, but it is odd.

As for the physical aspect, I do have to realize that she might be more dysregulated than normal with me, but putting a face on with others.  I don't know.  

Hi ynwa,

You know her better than anyone but could that have been a typo for "It was nice?".    Off topic I know but I would kill for time in a Jacuzzi or Steam Room right now,  the weather is so cold here every joint in my body is protesting.

She probably was more dsyregulated with you than around other people.   It doesn't have anything to do with you really.   People who are casual acquaintances aren't as much as a trigger as a romantic partner.   They aren't as intimately connected.    It's easier to keep the mask in place.   That's one of the frustrations for all of us.    That the public persona of our person and the private at home persona don't match.  It is easy to think if she can be quiet polite and respectful out in public why can't she do it at home.   not how it seems to work unfortunately.

'ducks

 

[ynwa]

So yes I waited, and it helped but I'm still left wondering will she call, is she ok. Because I'm me.  and I forget she is who she is.  I'm hurting myself at this point to expect her to even ask me how I'm doing, or what I did that day. That she as I want her to be is just not there.

Her "nice" comment was about me. I realized I left a part out in the explanation.
She made the comment, and I said after seeing it as weird. And to clarify.

"Well you are nice too, if you aren't being sarcastic" and she said, no she meant it, "I was nice"

Maybe that's the best she could do, maybe it's layered, I don't know. What I do know is that I need control. Not control of her, but control of my emotions. The habit of making sure she is ok, without me being ok is getting to me. I've been the one to restore the balance, even as tilted and unhealthy as it was. It became my normal.  I'm stuck in this cycle less and less but it's almost harder when I get more distance and it smacks me back in.

What helped last night, was getting a ride from a party. Two couples asking me why i was single. They didn't know me, friends of friends, but I gave them a brief story. One of them named my ex... .she said "but she is kind of a mess isn't she, fun girl, but kind of a mess". I didn't take enjoyment from it, and didn't validate it, but I can't disagree.   But she was MY mess... .