Why did I?

[Aesir]

I'm having  a rough time coping with my decision to stay with her so long. I knew that it was hopeless months ago. I tend to swing from anger at her and her unwillingness to seek help and myself for tolerating the abuse. What was I thinking? She would suddenly grow up and understand her destructive behavior? To stop blaming? After several years?

I know that it was my poor esteem was a factor. I guess I thought for a long time that this toxic relationship was better than being alone. The change came after experiencing far too many tantrums that I decided it was  far better to be alone.  I have to save what's left of my self respect.

You know what really galls me? It sounds nuts, even though I ended it with her she never made a real attempt to fix things. Not that it would have mattered. I wasn't going to accept another apology.  The last time I talked to her (over 2 months ago) she  did attempt to blame me for past things, some true most twisted. She treated it as if  I was causing most of the problems.  The damage is done and I... .have nothing left but a abused psyche and ashes. This is going to take a long time to get over.

[talks to angels]

Yep know that feeling and it is a hurt like no other. I felt the same, not even worth an effort. Most if not all now they are the problem, as far as accepting it, no WAY will their ego let them take the blame. Every time they look at us they know what they did, even if we forgive them there are so many lies that we do not know about.  It is far easier for them to erase it all pretend it never happened, by flipping the blame back on us, start fresh. It requires no effort for them to change and protects their ego.

[Aesir]

Yep know that feeling and it is a hurt like no other. I felt the same, not even worth an effort. Most if not all now they are the problem, as far as accepting it, no WAY will their ego let them take the blame. Every time they look at us they know what they did, even if we forgive them there are so many lies that we do not know about.  It is far easier for them to erase it all pretend it never happened, by flipping the blame back on us, start fresh. It requires no effort for them to change and protects their ego.

Yeah, that's it exactly. I agree.

[vortex of confusion]

It sounds nuts, even though I ended it with her she never made a real attempt to fix things.

THIS!

Ex claims to have made attempts. His attempt was to join a group for sex addicts and tell me to give him a year. And then it was another year. I didn't see any real changes. All I saw was him spinning his wheels and whining about how hard he was trying. Um, he had excuses for everything and then tried to tell me I wanted too much.

Like you,  I wonder what the heck I was thinking giving him so long. Why did I stay with somebody like him for so long? Here it is 20 years later and I am wondering what the heck happened.

[talks to angels]

It took me awhile to realize this, but the last communication I had with him, he again stated that he wanted me to know he never cheated (ya right, even though I caught him in bed with another woman) He knows what he did, and he cant accept it, its crazy but I would have forgiven him because he wasnt sober yet, but he will not and refuses to take any responsibility. It didnt work because I was jealous. I was heart hurt for so long, because I wasnt worth an effort to try to fix, yet he claimed I was the love of his life. But I am worth an effort! I realize now that they cant and wont, that is really why these relationships will never work no matter what you say or do. The shame of what they did to us, even the stuff we do not know about, surfaces every time they look at us or talk to us, that is why they paint us black, and move on. God forbid they look at themselves.

The fact that most psychologist will not treat them, shows how messed up they are. If people who devote their lives to helping other people obtain a mentally healthy outlook run from them, how could any one else survive

[Soulcrushed4]

I feel the same way.

I saw a quote recently saying "don't mistake motion for progress.A rocking horse keeps moving but never gets anywhere" and it's like a lightbulb went off for me.

I could have handled the first affair but it was all the subsequent drip feeding partial truths,  gaslighting, lying, offering up the illusion of transparency continued blameshifting that did things in.

He would do the BARE minimum which I would accept as change... .but there was no real effort. He attended detox, rehab, transition house, NA mtgs, 16 steps, abuse therapy, addictions counsellors, talk therapy, cbt based therapy, sex addiction therapy, endless job & living arrangement changes and ultimately it was just more of the same each time. He would troll for marks/supply sources  in recovery settings and the therapy sessions seemed to exacerbate his victim mentality. It's almost like certain things were done as a decoy to lead me off the trail of the big things that were being done.

There was a lot of counting "clean time" and swapping interchangeable addictions, and I just couldn't keep up with the chaos. There was no radical honesty. It seemed like "relapse is a part of recovery" is the only slogan taken to heart for whichever "addiction" was the flavour of the week/day,  I don't know if he is truly capable of radical honesty either since his reality seems entirely different based on feelings, audience, setting, day etc.

My ex has been professing his love for me as well yet other friends have seen his profile pics and adds looking for NSA sex and FWB on various sites from the moment I ended things. He claims he's "ready to be honest now" but he continues to lie to my face in court.

I was talking with my counsellor about why I stayed for so long she used the analogy of an old car where you start investing in repairs and before you realize it you've pretty much spent as much on repairs as you would have a new car but you don't want to lose the previous investment so keep on investing and relationships are much the same.

I also have had people give up on me and truly believe no relationship is perfect and everyone myself included is flawed so if I want someone to love all of me - the good and not so good then I do the same ... .and somewhere in that my boundaries and self esteem and soul got crushed. And while I'm here working on detachment and trying to peice life and heart back together he's off doing what he's always done. Adds another layer to feeling worthless.

I'm trying to make peace with never having closure. With never getting the full story. i try to tell myself I already have enough info to know I was not treated with love or respect so it's odd still wanting all the pieces of the puzzle.

It hurts that my kids, our child and I were not worth him making any real effort. To accept having been used and conned and worse to having fallen for it all and subjected my kids to such dysfunction.

[vortex of confusion]

He would do the BARE minimum which I would accept as change... .but there was no real effort.

I think this is what makes it so easy to stay. They do just enough to give the illusion of change. I wanted him to change so bad that I believed him. I believed that he was really working on things.

It's almost like certain things were done as a decoy to lead me off the trail of the big things that were being done.

That is a great way to describe it! I still can't believe that I let him BS me into thinking that he HAD to contact old girlfriends and love interests and make amends to them. When I tried to bring up the part about it not harming people and how he should be focusing on making amends to me and the kids, he gave me some line of crap about how he had to take responsibility for his actions and how he had to make a living amends to me and the kids, blah, friggin' blah! I bought it hook, line, and sinker. When I got upset with him, he somehow twisted things and I ended up feeling bad for "interfering" with his recovery.

There was a lot of counting "clean time" and swapping interchangeable addictions, and I just couldn't keep up with the chaos. There was no radical honesty. It seemed like "relapse is a part of recovery" is the only slogan taken to heart for whichever "addiction" was the flavour of the week/day,  I don't know if he is truly capable of radical honesty either since his reality seems entirely different based on feelings, audience, setting, day etc.

Ex had a sex addiction. I kept asking him to tell me what his definition of sobriety was. He would do a bunch of double talking BS about inner circle and middle circle and my head would go in circles. He was posting and answering ads and claiming to be sober. I guess his definition of sober was that it was okay as long as he wasn't screwing them. He said that it was okay because we were separated.

I was talking with my counsellor about why I stayed for so long she used the analogy of an old car where you start investing in repairs and before you realize it you've pretty much spent as much on repairs as you would have a new car but you don't want to lose the previous investment so keep on investing and relationships are much the same.

That is the perfect analogy for how things were on my side. Ex wouldn't bother investing in an old car. He would give it away before fixing it and investing in it. I joke that ex treated my like an object and even talked about me like one at times. When I got involved in some of the weirdness, he talked to a guy that wanted to date me and told him, "Sure, you can be intimate with my wife. You will enjoy it. You won't regret it." It was like he was letting somebody borrow his car.

I also have had people give up on me and truly believe no relationship is perfect and everyone myself included is flawed so if I want someone to love all of me - the good and not so good then I do the same ... .and somewhere in that my boundaries and self esteem and soul got crushed. And while I'm here working on detachment and trying to peice life and heart back together he's off doing what he's always done. Adds another layer to feeling worthless.

  Yeah, I struggle with those feelings of worthlessness at times. I think those feelings are one more reason that I had such a hard time leaving and stayed so long. I was so worn down that I didn't think I deserved better. I thought that what he gave me was as good as I was ever going to get so I had better suck it up and be happy about it.

It hurts that my kids, our child and I were not worth him making any real effort. To accept having been used and conned and worse to having fallen for it all and subjected my kids to such dysfunction.

  Me too!

[Mutt]

Hi Aesir,
‎
I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time. Don't beat yourself up. I just have a question for you. Did you think that you should have gotten out earlier after coming to the realization that she wasn't going to fix her end?  

She probably wasn't aware of how she acted affected those around her due to the fact that she had a lot going on inside. It doesn't excuse the fact that she's self absorbed, you have the right to feel the way that you do about it. Are you saying that you should have left her before she didn't make a last ditch effort?

This sounds like anger and anger is a normal stage in grieving but don't be angry at yourself. We learn from our failures in life. You'll probably tune into your intuition or see the red flags quicker the next time and act accordingly.

[Aesir]

Hi Aesir,
‎
I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time. Don't beat yourself up. I just have a question for you. Did you think that you should have gotten out earlier after coming to the realization that she wasn't going to fix her end?  

She probably wasn't aware of how she acted affected those around her due to the fact that she had a lot going on inside. It doesn't excuse the fact that she's self absorbed, you have the right to feel the way that you do about it. Are you saying that you should have left her before she didn't make a last ditch effort?

This sounds like anger and anger is a normal stage in grieving but don't be angry at yourself. We learn from our failures in life. You'll probably tune into your intuition or see the red flags quicker the next time and act accordingly.

Yes.  I feel I should have gotten out a lot earlier. The rages and conflict just kept getting worse. All of the time I was backing up, seeing  the relationship prospects go one after the other.  As someone said earlier I think I stayed because I had put so much of myself into it and just quitting would have been a waste.  Of course deep down I knew that it was inevitable.

[michel71]

The fact that most psychologist will not treat them, shows how messed up they are. If people who devote their lives to helping other people obtain a mentally healthy outlook run from them, how could any one else survive

Exactly! That speaks volumes! Until you cross paths with a pwBPD on a deep level you don't know what you are in for. IT is frightening.

[Mutt]

Yes.  I feel I should have gotten out a lot earlier. The rages and conflict just kept getting worse. All of the time I was backing up, seeing  the relationship prospects go one after the other.  As someone said earlier I think I stayed because I had put so much of myself into it and just quitting would have been a waste.  Of course deep down I knew that it was inevitable.

I'm sorry but if you a look at the r/s from start t finish, it was bad for several years, I don't see the difference between last month and a few months ago? Some members are in a bad marriage for decades. I think that what matters is that you got out and you have an opportunity to do self work, become a better person and better at r/s'.

[Aesir]

I'm sorry but if you a look at the r/s from start t finish, it was bad for several years, I don't see the difference between last month and a few months ago? Some members are in a bad marriage for decades. I think that what matters is that you got out and you have an opportunity to do self work, become a better person and better at r/s'.

I agree.

[lovenature]

Most if not all now they are the problem, as far as accepting it, no WAY will their ego let them take the blame. Every time they look at us they know what they did, even if we forgive them there are so many lies that we do not know about.  It is far easier for them to erase it all pretend it never happened, by flipping the blame back on us, start fresh. It requires no effort for them to change and protects their ego.

This sounds like NPD, while BPD does have some NPD traits, BPD is very different; shame is at the core of BPD, grandiose sense of self is at the core of NPD.
A PWBPD desperately wants a close intimate relationship and pursues that very aggressively (idealization), once you get too close they fear engulfment and abandonment so they push you away (devaluation). Their psychological defenses that boil down to them making up their own reality to fit their emotion of the moment are what cause them to hurt us so much and blame us (and others) for what they believe was done to them. PWBPD are capable of distorting reality to the point of seeing things that never happened. The lying, cheating etc. are results of a mental illness running it's course, they can't accept fault because the shame they feel is too painful for them, not because of ego.

[SuperJew82]

PWBPD are capable of distorting reality to the point of seeing things that never happened. The lying, cheating etc. are results of a mental illness running it's course, they can't accept fault because the shame they feel is too painful for them, not because of ego.

Exactly... .

I honestly do believe they live in another world. I sincerely believe mine would not be able to remember things or believe things happened a certain way. It was enough to think you might be going crazy. I don't think they are really bad people. They, however,  do bad things of course and leave a wake of destruction.

[Duped 1]

I think some of them truly are bad people. Just like non-disordered people are good and bad. Why would disordered people be any different? Mine was evil

[cbm419]

I would submit that many here are actually fortunate your BPDex did not try so hard and discarded with what appeared to be ease and utter lack of care. Mine pulled me soo hard and tried every little possible thing to get me to keep coming back. But inevitably the other shoe would drop in some way shape or form and in the face of what seemed like true effort on his part, I was able to stay in denial all that much longer.

I really wish he did what so many here report - found a replacement quickly and in an almost jarring and astounding way moved on from me. At the end of the day the net result is pretty much the same for all of us- we are bewildered and damaged and that's why we get so much help from this support group. But looking back the on/off was more than a third of our relationship and I just wish it ended more swiftly.

[cbm419]

I think some of them truly are bad people. Just like non-disordered people are good and bad. Why would disordered people be any different? Mine was evil

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS^^^^^^

Finally someone says it. In the most concise, no BS way. To add, while I don't believe my ex was fundamentally or pervasively evil, he did at times do very evil rotten things. Just like normal people who are usually good will find themselves making pretty darn evil mistakes.

Thank you so much! It seems like nobody on this site has called it out like this in such an succinct way.

[vanx]

It was poor self-esteem for me too. Overall, it seems like walking away form this and learning to love yourself better is maybe the biggest part. I know for me, the low self-esteem is what kept me hooked on her blame and trying to get back in her good graces, and what made me doubt the positive things I DID bring to the r/l, because they were seen in a negative light.
I guess I'm saying yes, we're all on a journey to keep growing, but maybe letting go of what our exes thought about us and remembering positive sides to what we did bring to the table could help. The part that wants to hold on to a r/l and work things out is important and a great asset, because it takes a lot of hard work! But loving ourselves enough to honor our needs is also important.
Maybe I'm putting too much of myself into this, but i appreciated your post, because I am wrestling with the same issues, and to me, the main element was self-esteem. The desire to love and be loved, and build a healthy relationship is there, I just need to love myself a little better.
So take good care of yourself and hang in there!

[Aesir]

It was poor self-esteem for me too. Overall, it seems like walking away form this and learning to love yourself better is maybe the biggest part. I know for me, the low self-esteem is what kept me hooked on her blame and trying to get back in her good graces, and what made me doubt the positive things I DID bring to the r/l, because they were seen in a negative light.
I guess I'm saying yes, we're all on a journey to keep growing, but maybe letting go of what our exes thought about us and remembering positive sides to what we did bring to the table could help. The part that wants to hold on to a r/l and work things out is important and a great asset, because it takes a lot of hard work! But loving ourselves enough to honor our needs is also important.
Maybe I'm putting too much of myself into this, but i appreciated your post, because I am wrestling with the same issues, and to me, the main element was self-esteem. The desire to love and be loved, and build a healthy relationship is there, I just need to love myself a little better.
So take good care of yourself and hang in there!

I totally agree. I... just wanted to  love someone and be loved back. Over time I lost myself in trying to make it work. The relationship was not 50/50 or even 60/40. It was more like 70/30. Letting go of what your ex thought about you is good thing. In my case it will not be easy because of the long period of verbal abuse. Even if you know that she has a problem the feelings and memories are still there.

[SuperJew82]

Yea I would agree that at the end of the day - it's what good or bad the other person does that would be a measure of "evilness". I like to use the word " unhealthy" - because this can be proved.

My relationship of over a year and a hlaf was also 1/3 to 1/2 of breaking up. I would always be the one that said " enough" . Lying was usually the thing that did it for me. So many lies... .

I could have only wished she would have left me out to hang. The relationship would have been over at month 3.

 I wasn't so lucky. She would come at me with the force of an army to get me sucked in... .and I wasn't prepared to get my shields up and go NC. I never had a reason to do that before. My non-crazy divorce was much easier.

[ateu]

I wish I got out quick. I thought it was the most sincere love I had found. Finally, someone got me. Finally, I had found a genuine loving person, even though life had treated this person badly... .

All delusional. I was in a very poor state and extremely lonely when we got together. I was love-bombed and felt nothing else mattered.

Then my friends started to react. "why are he expecting you to support him?", "to be honest, to threaten to harm himself is really horrible", "why are you staying with someone who makes you feel bad?", "he is having really bad influence on you"... ."leave him".

They were right. And I should have known. In the beginning I just couldn't see why so many of my ex's friend's partners were trying to get their SO's to cut it with him.

I get it now.