BPD/NPD's turn there back on logic

[bus boy]

This must be very common. Xw and I would be in conversation about something and I would be turning my self inside out trying to get her to see logic and the more I tried the more she disagreed or gave no validation what so ever or later on down the road say exactly what I was trying to say in the first place.

One time I suggested we purchase an item, Xw belittled my idea, a few weeks later she wanted to buy the item bc she suggested it.

Every day I'm detaching more and healing better and xw's constant death of a thousand cuts, Chinese water toucher style of belittling and emotionally abusing are more clear all the time. It really was a horrible way to live and I can't believe my state of mind all those years of wanting to be with her. I am alone and I get lonley but every day I'm a little more greatful I don't have that toxic sick knot in my stomach feeling that I would get when with Xw.

[ShadowA]

Once upon a time when I use to communicate well with my BPD.
I use to show her logic all the time, however it was very hard for her to grasp.
I also tried to help her with empathy to my situation or others, which was also very hard for her to grasp.
She had a hard time putting herself in other's shoes... .

However as years went by, and things got worst... .
I became less white over time and me explaining something would usually just be met with silence or passive aggressive behavior. Silence would be her go to for every situation that was negative or required communication. This wasn't to me, but to everyone.

So in respect to all that I've learned. I think they are too emotional to be logical, and deal with situations differently.
They do have the power to rewrite history afterall... Which makes logic void


"I feel, there for it is"  Is there moto

[gotbushels]

Hi bus boy 

It can feel frustrating trying to communicate with a pwBPD sometimes. Sometimes things that seem clear to us don't seem clear to them.

Forgetting things can be more common with pwBPDs than others. It's helpful to not see that their forgetfulness is not because of you.

I'm glad that your hurt is more clear to you over time. It's much easier to deal with something when we've identified what it looks like. Yes, when we look back at our behaviour in a relationship, we may feel incredulous. I too felt this way. I still do from time to time. It may help you to know that we didn't often see the context of our actions. Therefore, we may pity ourselves rather than blame ourselves. Moving forward, now that we see the context of our actions, we may feel like blaming someone. But this doesn't change the fact that at the time of the behaviours, pity is more suitable.

You might find as you gain more and more understanding of the depth of the FOG, you may feel the size of the pity getting bigger and bigger. Just how much mistreatment did we undergo? I encourage you to let yourself feel that pity. The compassion for the self feels much easier to access when we feel great pity than when we attack ourselves with blame.

It seems like you're finding peace with the absence of the toxic sick knot. I know this feeling well. It's very close to feelings of freedom, and I consciously look for it sometimes--because it feels so good!

[lovenature]

I am alone and I get lonley but every day I'm a little more greatful I don't have that toxic sick knot in my stomach feeling that I would get when with Xw.

I never knew the true value of peace until I went through a BPD relationship, I'll take my 2 canine best friends and reality over the crazy roller coaster through hell any day!

A PWBPD has psychological defences that all boil down to them making up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment.

[bus boy]

My life is peaceful with Xw gone. No crazy conflict, I'm detaching more and more so the emotional knot in my brain is unraveling. She has a BF to wrap up in her conflict and he is taking it all in. Life is much better.

[gotbushels]

Glad to hear that from your bus boy.  

Where are you with your inventory?


  lovenature

I never knew the true value of peace until I went through a BPD relationship, I'll take my 2 canine best friends and reality over the crazy roller coaster through hell any day!

Yes!

[bus boy]

I'm not to sure of my inventory. I'm a bit stuck in that department.

[gotbushels]

  A summary of doing an inventory of emotional health can include a self-description of mental health, your values, and your goals. I believe the good thing about this is it helps us to be prepared for if we want to go forward. That's figuratively un-stucking oneself.

Where are you stuck? Would you like to take this further?

[bus boy]

Yes, gotbushles, I do want to keep moving forward. I was very stuck on so many things, I have worked through so much, my head no longer feels like a tangled mess. I am stuck on some issues... .Xw's hate for my family and how she seems to have a very real r/s with her BF that she would never give to me. I realize Xw was very bad for me and my life has moved forward but it's confusing for my brain to accept how she is very different with her BF and made a family. Gave her BF the family I wanted. My family. To be a good man with morales and good family values and have my family tore away for no reason is painful. How Xw so cruely took my family from me with pleasure Bc she could, bc she knew how much I wanted a family and for her to turn around meet a man and move that man into my sons life the way she did is hard for my brain to process.

[gotbushels]

Yes, it's hard to move forward when there are issues you haven't seemed to resolve to yourself about the relationship or the ex. That's okay, and many of us here go through that.

Yes, gotbushles, I do want to keep moving forward. I was very stuck on so many things, I have worked through so much, my head no longer feels like a tangled mess.

Good job.  

With a goodly amount of self-compassion, I strongly encourage you to read radical acceptance before answering the following questions. Take your time with this.


I mean what's coming up in a serious manner, not rhetorically.

Xw's hate for my family and how she seems to have a very real r/s with her BF that she would never give to me.

You don't know if the relationship is what you define as "real".

Is a family solely given by one person?

Is it so important for you for her specifically to be part of the family you want?

I realize Xw was very bad for me and my life has moved forward but it's confusing for my brain to accept how she is very different with her BF and made a family.

It sounds as though your brain can accept the flow of thoughts. Is it confusing for your brain or your heart to accept?

To be a good man with morales and good family values and have my family tore away for no reason is painful.

Without judgement here;

Good people don't always get things they want. Can you allow you to not be all white, her not to be all black, can you allow for shades of grey here?

Is the phrase "have my family torn away" accurate?

A breakup and a family non-construction are two different things. Based on that, is there really no reason for the breakup?

[bus boy]

Thank you, I will read that article radical acceptance. One thing I did to change how I process is to Change how I look at things. For example s10 is with me today but I have to have him home by 4:00pm I was hoping we could watch the super bowl together but that's not going to happen. In the past I would get so down but now I look at it differently. S10 is with me, in the past he wasn't. So I'm very greatful today that s10 is with me. There will be more Super Bowls.

[bus boy]

I put a lot of thought into your questions.

-I don't if xw r/s is what I would define as real. Any man that follows his go's ex husband around can't have strong boundries. Normal r/s's don't operate that way. The brain is good at playing tricks. Xw bf glares at me with anger in his eyes.

- no its not. I now look as s10 and I as a family.

- not any more. My mindset for so long was for us to be a family. I couldn't wrap my brains around the way xw left or the unlogical reason she left. Now I understand personality disorders I have a better acceptance of things.

- it was confusing for my brain due to my lack of knowledge of personality disorders. I was very heart broken. Like many on here I invested a lot of non returned love.

I can allow for grey area. To a point my drinking played a part in this and I understand more that xw has a disorder.

- I might need to do more work in this area but I do feel xw tore our family apart. I tried very hard to save our marriage and xw put nothing into it. Made it very clear that our marriage meant nothing to her and that it would be easier to leave than go to counselling. Understanding disorders I see counselling would of been a mistake.

-I search hard for a solid reason but find none. In a normal r/s our problems were very fixable, small problems that probably wouldn't need counselling. My first counselor said nothing I would ever do could save our marriage.

[gotbushels]

-I don't if xw r/s is what I would define as real. Any man that follows his go's ex husband around can't have strong boundries. Normal r/s's don't operate that way. The brain is good at playing tricks. Xw bf glares at me with anger in his eyes.

Well it might be real in the sense that they are a pair in a relationship that define themselves as partners. But--given what you said--it's not a relationship that appears to have boundaries in place. It's not a relationship that looks normal.

So indeed, based on this, it doesn't seem like you're missing out on much. If you could be with anyone, your ex aside, would you like a relationship like this?

- no its not. I now look as s10 and I as a family.

Yes. And a family takes more than one person to create--therefore your ex couldn't ever "give" it to you in the first place.

- not any more. My mindset for so long was for us to be a family. I couldn't wrap my brains around the way xw left or the unlogical reason she left. Now I understand personality disorders I have a better acceptance of things.

Yes. So what you're saying is that it's no longer important for her specifically to be part of a family you want. Indeed when we are so used to living in the belief that A (non) + B (pwBPD) are "family", it can take some time for the body to catch up with the new belief that A doesn't necessarily want B anymore. It will take time to get used to. I think it's normal to feel confused after these relationships. So it's good that your understanding has allowed you to more easily accept that she may not represent someone you want to be with after all.

- it was confusing for my brain due to my lack of knowledge of personality disorders. I was very heart broken. Like many on here I invested a lot of non returned love.

Yes, many have given love that they didn't receive back. I think that's of course quite expected of the non in these relationships. Well, you have some understanding of PDs now. You were heartbroken. At this point in your life, does it still feel confusing?

I can allow for grey area. To a point my drinking played a part in this and I understand more that xw has a disorder.

Yes, so clearly you're made up of more than simply good morals and family values. She too is made up of more than one or two parts. This allows for her to have discontinued the relationship for reasons other than these very high goods of morality and family values.

- I might need to do more work in this area but I do feel xw tore our family apart. I tried very hard to save our marriage and xw put nothing into it. Made it very clear that our marriage meant nothing to her and that it would be easier to leave than go to counselling. Understanding disorders I see counselling would of been a mistake.

Ok. Yes, if you feel as though she did that, there's nothing wrong with that feeling. Describe this more "I tried very hard to save our marriage and xw put nothing into it." Yes, you may have tried very hard to save your marriage. I felt and still feel this way about my relationship too. However, did she really put nothing into it? To help here, I admit that my ex tried really hard to deal with her cycling jealousy. It was a very big issue for her. She reached the stage where she said she is "just okay with it" when I asked her why she stopped talking about it. This--to me--can be strongly considered putting something into a relationship.

-I search hard for a solid reason but find none. In a normal r/s our problems were very fixable, small problems that probably wouldn't need counselling. My first counselor said nothing I would ever do could save our marriage.

Ok. Yes, some problems are very fixable. Yes, no matter what the non does, I do think some relationships are terminal. From here, can you describe one reason why she'd want to break up? It doesn't have to be solid or strong. It doesn't even have to be something you're responsible for.

[bus boy]

No, I would not like a r/s like this with anyone. The first sign of abuse towards my family or I, or any kind of manuplation, I would walk away.

-Xw put nothing into saving our marriage, she made it very clear I was 1,000% in the wrong. Xw sent me to councelling, said I had mental issues and my family had issues but she warned me I was forbidden to discuss her in councelling. I came back from councelling and asked wife again to come to councelling that the T said our marriage would end in divorce if we both didn't attend sessions. She was extremely mad for bringing her up in councelling and totally refused to come with me. She said it would be easier to leave. After that my mental health deteriorated worse.

- Xw told me she left Bc I chose my family over her. Xw had a list of things I could do with my family and a list of rules about my family.

[gotbushels]

Great. It's straightforward from here bus boy. You don't want a relationship like this with anyone.

So what good is this for you? This will help your heart come to level with where your head is.

Let's revisit what you said before.

I am stuck on some issues... .

Xw's hate for my family and how she seems to have a very real r/s with her BF that she would never give to me.

You said you don't know if she has a real relationship. Whether it's "real" or not doesn't actually matter. You've just said you don't want the relationship she is able to offer.

Gave her BF the family I wanted. My family.

This thought was problematic. However, you've just disproven this thought. After investigating it, we have this.

Families can simply be called the sum of one or more relationships. The relationship she's offering isn't what you want. Until you have children, this "family" you're trying to create is only you and her. While a relationship is made up of two people, the only relationship in this "family" is singular. You don't want this relationship, therefore you don't want this family.

Moreover, since this is something you don't actually want, then you no longer have an incentive to personalise it as a "my" family.

Does this make sense?

[bus boy]

Yes, it does make a lot of sence to read it the way you put makes it all come together much better for me. It is not the kind of r/s I want so it doesn't matter anymore. We never were a family and never would be. Xw had so many unrealistic rules for what I could do with our son or where I could go with him it would of been pure hell. I have peace in my life, I don't have to watch every word I say and most of all I can be a much better father with her out of my life.

[marti644]

"I never knew the true value of peace until I went through a BPD relationship"

Truer words have never been spoken.

[gotbushels]

Wonderful, bus boy. Doesn't it feel wonderful to not have to have this elevated sense of whether what you're doing is right or wrong? To me, the absence of this background alertness is greatly peace-giving. Much of that "need" for background alertness left with the relationship I had with my ex. I hope this peace in your life persists.


Yes,   marti644, that's a terrific quote!

[bus boy]

Thank you gotbushels, this has opened my mind to a whole new way of looking at this and accepting this. Yesterday s10 and I went to my nieces bday party. That is something that would of been impossible with Xw. She had a rule that I was forbidden to take our child/children to any of my family gatherings. At the time I was so broken, it was hell but now I clearly see how emotionally disfunctional the whole r/s I thought I was such a horrible person bc Xw was telling me I was.

[gotbushels]

I'm delighted you're benefiting from this discussion bus boy.

I relate to your experience. One of the first family gatherings I went to (my nephew's party), I felt incredibly free. While it's nice to feel anchored to something--being with a pwBPD made me feel really stuck. Like being in a forest of thorns. I was second-guessing everything I was doing--who I was around, who I was talking to, how I was talking to them. So many, many things would cause her to project negatives onto me that I was so wary about my actions. I didn't notice this until these gatherings with others. Without her, I wouldn't get in trouble for smiling and saying hello to friends and family. It felt like the air I was moving in was clear.