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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: what life is like 10 months after BPD husband moved out  (Read 403 times)
FinallyICanSee

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3


« on: February 03, 2017, 09:20:21 PM »

My husband moved out 10 months ago after 14 years of marriage, 2 children, and countless emotional explosions.  He ruled all of us with his moods, demands, and misery.  He has never been formally diagnosed but only b/c he doesn't see a therapist.  Why would he?  He believes he's perfect.  He is very successful at work and coaching my son's sports team, and everyone thinks he's great.  The problem is that's what kept me in this crazy-making relationship for so long.  I doubted myself and thought I was the one who was crazy.  After all, how can he be so charming and high achieving to the outside world and so awful to me and the kids at home?  He always told me his abusive explosions were my fault anyway.  I stayed way too long.  I stopped listening to my own inner wisdom and believed his ridiculous lies about who I am.  Finally getting him to move out was a huge milestone.  Me and the kids got a puppy and spent the whole summer laughing and healing.  When my husband came around, he played the sad victim or angry abuser.  I tried to minimize the anger I felt toward him for the kids sake and encouraged him to spend time with them.  As my happiness grew, I became more compassionate toward him.  I bent over backwards to encourage the kids to spend time with him.  Now, months later, I feel angry that I have once again allowed him to regain so much power over me.  He inconsistently wants to see the kids.  If he's angry at me, he makes me pay by being cruel to the kids.  He's nice one day, evil the next.  When I say 'enough!', he quickly goes back into the sad victim role.  He refuses to give us a schedule of when he will see the kids so we are always off balance... .the kids grateful when he does show interest in them and me unable to plan anything.  I'm not that much different than I was when he lived here... .afraid to discuss anything that will upset him, my life totally revolving around his moods, and somehow feeling responsible for everyone's happiness, except my own.
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gotbushels
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 11:05:18 PM »

Hi FinallyICanSee 

Welcome.

To feel ruled over for a long time is difficult and frustrating.

Social life and family life can be very different for some people. When there is a big difference between the two, things seem amiss. Living with that daily is painful.

I think an explosion by one person is not another person's fault. To be accused like this of something that has no clear connection can be a confusing experience.

Can you share more about how his anger at you relates to being cruel to the children?
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Turkish
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 11:14:11 PM »

This sounds so painful to deal with... .he's keeping the ball, so to speak. Maybe it's time to serve it into his court and own it.  Have you considered filing a custody order yet? That's one issue. 

The other issue,  in addition to you struggling with taking care of the kids (not to mention yourself) is how the kids feel.  We have a lot of material here (see the right side bar). In short, kids should be told the truth,  age appropriately. Listening and reflecting/mirroring back what they say is a good place to start.  In your kids' words, how do they view him as cruel and abusive?

T
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
FinallyICanSee

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3


« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 06:52:35 AM »

It's difficult to describe how the kids feel toward their dad.  My son (15) is probably the most conflicted.  He is an excellent lacrosse player and that is a huge part of his identity... .especially now that he is in high school. I know how hard he works and being well-known as an athlete helps his self-esteem.  But, my husband is equally invested in his success... .he played lacrosse in college, and is now getting alot of attention for being a successful club team coach AND for being the father of a budding star.  As far as time spent together, my son by far sees his dad the most. 
I see how hard it is for my son to know how to act when he is around both me and his dad.  With me, my son is able to show his emotions and we are able to talk about anything.  When his dad is around, my son reverts into a mini-him and talks to me in the same disrespectful way his dad does (almost trying to impress him).  Add in the popularity my husband has on the lacrosse field, it's easy to understand why my son can't quite figure out how to feel.
We don't talk about it much, but I know my son has many traumatic memories regarding his dad.  While he never was a textbook 'abuser', he did lose control many times with both me and my son.  In fact, the only time I was ever punched by my husband was when I physically shielded my son (4 years old at the time) from his dad's violence (discipline, as he called it).  I took all violent episodes seriously and eventually he stopped actually hurting us.  The problem is that we were already conditioned to fear him... .all he had to do was show his angry face, or quietly seethe, or throw something, break something or use his gorilla voice (as my daughter named it when she was 4 years old).  It produced the same result.  I guess the fear of all that still controls us.
My daughter is now 12 and is also greatly confused how to feel toward her dad.  He has never shown the same interest in her because she doesn't play lacrosse.  He has very little interest in her life and is intolerant of her fiesty personality (I personally love the fact she calls him out on his bad behavior at times).  It breaks my heart tho, to see the total lack of loving, protective fatherly instincts.  She doesn't know what it would feel like to have a dad who could hug her when she's sad and not ridicule her.  She's grateful for any scraps she gets.  I do worry about the care-taking roll she takes on when her dad is in his sad, victim mode.  He inflicts alot of damage by playing with her emotions b/c he knows she is vulnerable to this.  His instincts aren't paternal at all, they are self-serving and he doesn't think twice to use her kindness to cheer him up (only to drop her like a hot potato when he's feeling better).

Oh jeez.  I guess I do really need to get these things out.  It's like I'm caught between a rock and hard place. I want my kids to have a good relationship with their dad but I don't trust his stability--so I stay stuck in anxiety. Ready to comfort the kids if he acts badly, happy for them when things go well. 

I know boundaries need to be set.  Would love suggestions!
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gotbushels
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 09:55:35 PM »

It seems like your son has a healthy long term interest in lacrosse. I encourage you not to let any negative dynamics cause you to lose awareness the positive things the sport brings for your son and family. I understand that having a sport of mutual interest between the father and the son can strengthen their relationship.

I see how hard it is for my son to know how to act when he is around both me and his dad.  With me, my son is able to show his emotions and we are able to talk about anything.  
I think this communication's openness is good.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
When his dad is around, my son reverts into a mini-him and talks to me in the same disrespectful way his dad
does (almost trying to impress him).  
Can you get specific about this disrespect in terms of actions and topics?

I took all violent episodes seriously and eventually he stopped actually hurting us.  
Your role in reducing the physical violence of the family is good to uphold as a very good thing.

The problem is that we were already conditioned to fear him... . I guess the fear of all that still controls us.
Yes, you may still feel fear as a consequence of this history between your husband and you. As what Turkish suggested, I think "reflecting" here would be beneficial for you to use. What reflecting describes is when instead of absorbing the pain or anger from him, you "don’t soak it in, but deflect it off you" (Kreger).

Reflecting in this way can take various forms. What one form looks like is to keep your feelings separate from the other person. This acts against projection of feelings. It means to be aware of whose feelings are whose.



For example:

BP: →You spend all your time at work, you don't love me.← If you really loved me you would come home sooner. Show me pictures of the women in your office. Forget it, I'm leaving. Don't come find me. I hate you.

... .you don't love me.
The feeling here is loneliness. Her expression of loneliness is taken as "absence" of "love".
You spend all your time at work ... .
The fact may be I spend a lot of time at work. But this is different from "all".

In the example, we've got assorted feelings of loneliness, fear, sadness, etc. To reflect is to be aware of whose feelings are whose. I'm calm. She's angry. I check to whom each feeling belongs. From whom did they start. To whom does the consequence move to.

Now--at this point--I'm better able to choose my next action. I can (1) get drawn in, (2) simply listen; other responses.



Examples from your situation.
1.
If he shows his angry face, you can observe to yourself "ok, he's angry", then choose your action from here.
2.
If he seethes, you can observe to yourself "ok, he's angry", then choose your action from here.
3.
If he uses a gorilla voice, you can observe to yourself "ok, he's angry", be clear in your mind's eye he's angry, then choose your action from here.



I know boundaries need to be set.  Would love suggestions!
I suggest one you can start with is "I've got a right to be responded to with courtesy and respect". To reflect as above is one way you can enforce this boundary. This enforcement comes tacitly. It conveys that you are neither simply taking his anger nor treating it as a given. To clarify, look at each of the above and observe the boundary at work:

1.
It's not respectful to me to be repeatedly met with aggression.
2.
It's not respectful to me to be repeatedly met with passive-aggression.
3.
It's not respectful to me to be repeatedly responded to aggressively.

Simply by identifying the anger, you're now aware that this is an opportunity to observe the boundary you set.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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FinallyICanSee

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3


« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 08:53:51 AM »

Thank you gotbushels, for the thoughtful reply.  It does help to break things down and look at the situation in more of a detached way.

As I continue to analyze my situation, I can see that my life feels most off balance when I am interacting with him.  It's time I accept that I have been continuing my role as caretaker of his moods even during this divorce process.  When he's kind and sweet, my heart wants to believe I can help him stay that way by keeping loose boundaries and not asking him to commit to any parenting schedule, not talking about anything stressful, etc... .attempting to reduce his stress so that he can be kind and sweet when he's with the kids. 

Does it work? NO! Has it ever worked? NO! Instead, it guarantees he maintains his power over me.  He decides his mood from minute to minute, and he is responsible for that.

I am responsible for my moods as well.  By being thrown for a loop every time he attacks me out of the blue, I can see I have been absorbing his pain for him (as it has always been).  Seems obvious now.  No more, I'm not that girl anymore.

I stayed up late last night typing up some ground rules I will be asking him to observe as we move forward toward a mutually acceptable parenting plan. 

Basic things... .no coming into house unannounced (yes, he still has a key and frequently sneaks in at odd times, innocently claiming he just wanted to see the kids), participating in the use of a shared calendar where he can chose times he will see kids and BE RESPONSIBLE for those times, asking that he and I use email to communicate and minimize face to face time when possible, asking that when he is in this house he behaves responsibly and respectfully at all times (no demeaning comments, keeping things clean, responsibly caring for the dog as needed, holding kids accountable for same things), being responsible to not be drunk or hungover during his time with kids, etc.

I have emailed him to meet for coffee tomorrow and I will show him this then.  Also, I let him know that I'd like us to find a mediator to help us work out a custody arrangement.  This is the first step toward the divorce settlement.  I will let him know that I refuse to discuss finances until this is settled.  After all, the kids are the most important asset we have.  As you can probably predict, he is a financial bully and loves to play upon my fears of not having enough money to support the kids.  No more listening to that craziness.

I am NOT powerless.  I am none of the things he used to tell me I was... .I'm not crazy, I'm not too weak to survive without him, I'm not a piece of s#$%... .those were the voices in HIS head.

It feels good to be coming out of the FOG Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Yleesor

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 5


« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2017, 06:37:53 PM »

It sounds like your totally coming out of the fog, but give yourself time , you need boundaries desperatly. If he doesn't agree with working a deal, get a good lawyer (that he will have to pay for) and get this hashed out. The longer you wait they more you play his game. He will sadly never grow up and your boundaries will always have to be in place!
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gotbushels
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 07:25:12 AM »

As I continue to analyze my situation, I can see that my life feels most off balance when I am interacting with him.  It's time I accept that I have been continuing my role as caretaker of his moods even during this divorce process.  
I think it's important that you first identify that you feel off balance when you're interacting with him. It's strong of you to accept what your role has been, even during this divorce process. I encourage you to remember that oftentimes these roles have purposes that worked for us before, so that may allow you to use some self-compassion.

When he's kind and sweet, my heart wants to believe I can help him stay that way by keeping loose boundaries and not asking him to commit to any parenting schedule, not talking about anything stressful, etc... .attempting to reduce his stress so that he can be kind and sweet when he's with the kids.  
It's easy to lose sight of the things that are not very pleasant in a relationship when things are going well. This can actually be a good thing in some moments, but when the good is used to overpower things we feel strongly against, then it can lead to issues. I think it's good that you recognise that you feel you want to not encourage him to do difficult things during these moments. It can be quite hypnotic. Like when we set out to do something with someone, but get caught up on the good parts of the conversation, then don't get the objective you want to complete.

I think you're making great progress here. Do take things one step at a time, be aware of the timelines for yourself in the divorce process, and look after yourself. Please let us know how this develops for you.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

And yes--coming out of the fog of these things can feel terrific.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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