College Daughter with BPD - need guidance

[shatteredmom]

Hi - I am new to this, but I am hoping that it will be helpful for me to get involved with others going through similar circumstances.  My daughter is 20 years old and is currently a junior in college.  Starting with the positives - she is doing well academically (3.2) and is on track to graduate next year AND she has started seeing a therapist.  She realizes that she struggles with relationships, knows she doesn't function like others and wants to be "normal". BUT... .the way she treats me 90% of the time is tearing me apart.  I have seriously thought about writing a book about my life because it has been so crazy. 

It starts with my daughter's father (me ex).  He had (has?) a severe gambling problem, lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, spent time in prison, and has been diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder.  When I finally left him, he went absolutely crazy and vowed to ruin my life.  In a way - he has.  He has spent the last 10 years telling my two children what a selfish, horrible person I am.  He has also turned them against my family who has been beyond helpful and supportive to all of us.  Although I have always been there for them both financially and emotionally - my ex is so manipulative there is a part of them that keeps a wall up toward me.  I fought back early on just to have my ex come back at me even harder. 

Now both kids are in college and I am paying for half of their tuition/room/board.  I also pay for their phones and my daughter's car.  I am happy to do this but it is a financial drain on me - I want to give them this opportunity.  My daughter is a bright, beautiful, smart and witty girl.  She has so much going for her, but she has always struggled with friendships and relationships.  She often says she can hardly stand to be around people.  She also struggles to keep jobs, shortly after starting a job she will quit because the people she works with are such "idiots".  The worst part for me is how she blames me for EVERY wrong that occurs to her in life.  She goes on rants toward me about how selfish I am and wishes I were dead. 

Her biggest issue with me now is my fiance who has been very tolerant of her disrespect toward me. He can't stand how she treats me but allows me to handle the situation.  My fiance is amazing and treats me with such love and respect.  I am so happy with him which is probably why she can't stand him. She went on a rant insisting that I not bring him to my niece's wedding.  When I wouldn't agree to it, she said that neither she, nor my son will ever speak to me again if my fiance is allowed to go.(She does this "threatening" thing everytime I don't do what she wants me to do) My son, who is "normal" and a great young man is also easily manipulated by my ex and my daughter - which breaks my heart even more because he is drawn into their negative, hateful world. 

I have a couple questions that I am hoping to get some advice about.  My daughter started seeing a therapist (whom she says she likes going to and also said the therapist said she should have written me off as a mother long ago - of course no therapist would say this unless my daughter told exagerated lies OR she is lying to me that her therapist said this). I have offered to go to therapy with her  if she wants but she has not opened that option up.  I have done enough research, I really believe she is BPD.  I want to share my thoughts with her therapist in hopes that will get her the help she really needs.  I also want her therapist to know that my ex (daughter's dad) has been diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder.  I have her email address - I just don't know if it is appropriate for me to share that info.

AND my other question - at what point do I cut off the funds?  No more tuition? No more phone? No more car?  I feel as though her behavior doesn't deserve what I give her.

Any suggestions?  There are so many other "incidents" I could have shared, but I am trying to keep this post as short as possible so I am not writing about all of the turmoil.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mutt]

Hi shatteredmom,



I'd like to welcome you to  bpdfamily. I'm sorry that you and your family are going through this. I can see how emotionally draining all of this would feel for you. I'm glad that you have found us, you'll many members here that can relate with you and offer you guidance and support.

It helps to read as much as you can about BPD you'll quickly see the benefits and become proficient over time. It will also help to normalize it by understand the reasons why your D20 acts the way that she does and it will help to depersonalize the behaviors.

I want to share my thoughts with her therapist in hopes that will get her the help she really needs.  I also want her therapist to know that my ex (daughter's dad) has been diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder.  I have her email address - I just don't know if it is appropriate for me to share that info.

Your D probably knows that if she quits a job that she has you to fallback on, my suggestion is have boundaries for money, maybe tell her that you can't keep financing her expenses if she quits her job.

I'm not sure that emailing the T is a good idea, I mean you're asking an internet forum, so you may of been thinking about this idea for awhile. Maybe the T already knows that she may be suffering from BPD, if you told the T the backstory about her dad it would prove that there's mental illness in the family, the T may respond back, say nothing at all and it probably won't get back to your D . I think that you wanting to send the email to her T shows that you want to help your D. I think that's the bigger picture.

I've been guilty with this with my ex wife that is undiagnosed as well and displays BPD traits, when I fixed something for her it usually didn't last long and the problem wasn't resolved. I'd suggest seeing a T if you're not seeing one, concurrently with this support group is a really good combination. What do you think about setting some boundaries with your D20?

[Bright Day Mom]

Hi Shattered Mom.  Sorry you are struggling w/your D.

I think Mutt has provided some great advice. Arm yourself with some useful tools to the right - this will help your communication.  Yes, YOUR communication one thing it took me a long time to learn is we cannot control what others do or say, only how WE react. The tools have helped our home tremendously!

Seeking counseling is also a great idea and can assist you in boundary setting, which is not an exact science, but more of an art form. 

Since your D is over 18, her dr cannot discuss her case w/o her consent; however, the dr. can listen to you. Have you considered calling?  I once learned "say if forget it, write it regret it" and have passed this on to my own kids. In other words, if you have something to say then do it - it's said and done.  If you write it, you may regret it as it could be mis-interpreted / considered hurtful or come and bite you in the behind as it is written and can take on a life of its own. What the dr does with the information is on them, at least  you know you've spoken your feelings.

Welcome to the forum and keep us posted - many times simply venting on here is help in itself. You've got good company.

[Grey Kitty]

Regarding your direct question about the contacting her therapist... .there are confidentiality issues, and as I best understand them, your therapist cannot talk to you about your daughter unless your daughter signs a release. I don't see much good coming from this, and no reason to even ask for this, as it might harm your daughter's trust of either you or her therapist.

You can pass ifnormation to her therapist without hearing anything back, and that doesn't violate confidentiality, although I'm not really sure what benefit will come from that if you did.

The one suggestion I do have regarding your daughter's therapist is that you don't pay too much attention to what your daughter says to you about what her therapist tells her. It may not be reliable, and it really doesn't matter very much either.

Instead, what matters is how she treats you.

she said that neither she, nor my son will ever speak to me again if my fiance is allowed to go.(She does this "threatening" thing everytime I don't do what she wants me to do)

  This sounds really tough to hear. It sounds regular. has she followed through with this before? If so, how long did it last, as she and your son are speaking to you now.

[shatteredmom]

Wow - the first post I make and the advice I have received is already helping!  Thank you all so much. 

Mutt - I appreciate the advice on money and a job.  That is a concrete boundary that will put ownership back on her.  I agree - I feel like I "fix a problem" only to turn around and have another one.

I need to think about contacting the T - I liked Bright Day Mom's advice - say it forget it, write it regret it.  Maybe I will send her an email to let her  know I support my daughter and if the T wants to reach out to me beyond that she can.  That way I won't say anything that will cause mistrust but will let the T know I am available to help if necessary.

Grey Kitty - my daughter has threatened this before and followed through on it once for 4 months.  How sad that I actually felt relieved during that time - no abusive phone calls or text messages.  Things were slowly getting better, we were communicating, and I visited her a few times. Then out of nowhere the threatening text messages.  I haven't heard from her in a few days.  I talk to my son about once a week either by a phone call or text message.  I am going to visit him in a week and a half.  But I am not sure if D20 has communicated to him that she is upset with me again and urging him not to communicate with me.  I need to have a heart to heart with him about not letting her relationship with me affect his relationship with me.

Finally - I need to find my own therapist - that is great advice and a common suggestion from all of you. I assume I should look for one that is well versed in BPD.

I am so appreciative of all of your support.  I really do feel better already.

Are there ever any happy endings with family members of loved ones with BPD?

[heartandwhole]

Are there ever any happy endings with family members of loved ones with BPD?

Hi shatteredmom,

There are. There really is hope. With skills and resources, things can, and do, get better. As you know, it takes a lot of effort, but your and your family's wellbeing is worth it. 

[Grey Kitty]

Grey Kitty - my daughter has threatened this before and followed through on it once for 4 months.  How sad that I actually felt relieved during that time - no abusive phone calls or text messages.

I'm not a parent, and my experience with BPD involves relationship partners, so the way I would deal with this may not fit your situation as well... .

But I'd suggest you work on addressing the abusive phone calls and text messages and threats -- Her actual behavior. Not so much the specific content of them, and not the larger mental illness issues. Specific behavior is easiest to identify and easiest to address.

When she behaves abusively toward you, you remove yourself to protect yourself from the behavior.

If she is talking on the phone and becomes abusive, try something like "I will not be spoken to that way." (Or yelled at, cursed at, etc.) If the next words are more of the same, or denying that she is doing anything wrong, and blaming/guilting you, say "Goodbye" and hang up.

With texting, you may want to mute or sleep her on your phone so you don't see notifications, or perhaps block her at least temporarily so she cannot send abusive texts. You don't have to warn her about this, and understand that you are doing it to protect YOUR peace of mind, not to change her behavior.

Also, regarding texting, that communication medium strips all non-verbal aspects of your message, and adding them back with   is err... .different. Pay attention to whether this typically has better or worse outcomes with her, and with what subjects. I've personally found that emotionally charged subjects tend to be a poor choice for text messages, and I try to deflect those for better communication mediums.

With texting, you have time before you respond, at least for 20 seconds, if not 20 minutes, without there being a significant silence that means something... .giving you time to think about using the best communication tools and techniques in a way you can't afford to when talking in real time.

As for the threat to stop talking to you, if you let her get her way / win by throwing that threat at you, she will continue to do so. That said, you cannot make her talk to you. Sadly, it is a very common thing for us to deal with from a pwBPD; you might want to read more here:

BPD BEHAVIORS: Silent treatment - verbal abuse.

I need to have a heart to heart with him about not letting her relationship with me affect his relationship with me.

  Yes, good plan.

If you implement any of these suggestions regarding your daughter, you can expect her to react badly at first, although she should come to accept the new version of how you relate to her eventually. She might even (ultimately) be happier with it, although I wouldn't expect to hear from her about it. Still, that first reaction could include insisting that her brother shut you out. If you have a chance to have this conversation with him first, that would be a good idea.

And if he's unwilling/unable to stand up to her, or only able to do it half-way, try to forgive him, and be patient with him--it is really really hard for him too.

[shatteredmom]

Heartandwhole - thank you for giving me hope.  My D20 has shown some positive signs in her life, but so many dark moments and abuse have made me feel hopeless.  I am going to choose to hope for a better future for our relationship.  I am very spiritual so I pray a lot about it.

Thank you for your support.

Grey Kitty - my daughter has gone 4 months without talking to me, so she knows I will survive the threat.  That time also allowed me to build the mental and emotional strength I need to stay strong if she chooses to shut me out again. I have been very patient with my son - it will take him time to really understand the seriousness of his sister's issues.

I have found so many fabulous resources on this site - articles, tips and suggestions.  I am saddened at how many people are suffering with BPD and for the loved ones affected by their behavior.  But I am thankful for help and support.

[wendydarling]

Hello shatteredmom 

I send you hope too  . There is so much to learn about BPD and ourselves, how we can change and gain our balance to manage through.

Here is a dose of hope from me to you and everyone
Monday evening I had a 2 hour conversation with my 28DD who lives at home, (first long chat since before Xmas) she spoke rapidly and I listened mainly. I could feel nerve endings in my brain tickling, on end, brain overdose... .heart racing, how could someone speak so rapidly for so long.

Topics covered:

Had reactivated facebook to be told it was the anniversary of her last A&E admission 6/2/16
Had read her blog of a year ago too, recognised how disordered she was at that time, did not recognise herself,  how far she has come.
Group DBT session feedback (very rare she's shared)
How diverse a BPD diagnosis is, we are individuals, please respect us as such.
Her respected therapist since last July moving on (30yrs experience) leaving due to on going funding cuts being untenable. New therapist.
Spent a lot of time since Xmas tweeting for mental health (end the stigma) and has since 400 professionals working in mental health joining her 10k followers.
A close friend who has supported her for many years, denies her own BPDx which means my DD can't share her journey, yet.
A move to working in mental health ... .how ... .she is passionate, understands and wants to help those suffering.
Her recognising how much she needs VALIDATING, a lot of, more than most ... .

That's a sliver.  I have held my balance through the very darkest of times and I see she is rising. I go through weeks and weeks of not seeing/hearing any progress, seeing the opposite and that makes me feel she is on her way to crisis - and then suddenly the flood gates open with her joy and relief as she gradually frees herself and takes control    Small steps, we have far to go.

I'm very sorry your daughter is abusive to you and hope the lessons and tools here help you.

This stood out to me, 'She realizes that she struggles with relationships, knows she doesn't function like others and wants to be "normal'. A sign of self awareness and a desire to be well is a good place to be, and work from. 

Glad you found us 

WDx

[shatteredmom]

WendyDarling - thank you for sharing your story.  It really does help to hear how others handle similar situations.  It sounds like your D is making great progress!  I hope that continues for her and you.  I have made an appt with a therapist that I can start seeing to help me navigate my relationship with D20. I am gaining hope, and this forum has made such a difference.

Thank you!

[devastatedmom]

Hi shatteredmom.  I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.  This disease is so ugly and difficult to navigate and it is clear you having a rough time.  I wanted to reply re: your quote:

I have a couple questions that I am hoping to get some advice about.  My daughter started seeing a therapist (whom she says she likes going to and also said the therapist said she should have written me off as a mother long ago - of course no therapist would say this unless my daughter told exagerated lies OR she is lying to me that her therapist said this). I have offered to go to therapy with her  if she wants but she has not opened that option up.  I have done enough research, I really believe she is BPD.  I want to share my thoughts with her therapist in hopes that will get her the help she really needs.  I also want her therapist to know that my ex (daughter's dad) has been diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder.  I have her email address - I just don't know if it is appropriate for me to share that info.

I just went through this exact same situation, so I couldn't "not" reply to this.  I will spare all of the gory details here, but if you read my very first post, it relays everything I was going through.  Long and short, my DD24 began seeing a psychologist about a year and a half ago who I thought had experience with BPD and DBT.  It turns out she does not, however, for the first year, my daughter seemed to be progressing and I thought we were on track to getting her help, but about 4 months ago my daughter had a few things happen in her life that sent her into crisis, and her BPD symptoms have now escalated, and during this time she has started making comments to me that have all the hallmarks of coming from her psychologist.  Some of them were very personal about me and MY childhood/upbringing and my character.  The most recent comment from my daughter (and this happened after I made my initial post on here) is that "80% of the work she does with her psychologist is for her to recover from how I horribly I traumatized her growing up".  Basically, the impression I have had is that the psychologist has created a persona of me that does not exist based on information she has gotten from my daughter, and has tied it up in a bow and was feeding it back to my daughter.

I was very concerned that I would lose my daughter if she was being validated by a psychologist/professional that this was the upbringing she endured.  My husband and I are acutely aware of the things our daughter says about her upbringing, because she has done it for the better part of 10 years, and the majority of it is exaggerated or just plain fabricated and I was beginning to feel that the psychologist didn't get this.

So, when my daughter made the comment about 80% of the work she does with the psychologist being due to me, I decided that I had to approach the psychologist, because I didn't want five years to go by, and my daughter still to be suffering and me to have lost my relationship with her and wishing that I had intervened.  So, I contacted the psychologist.  She would not agree to meet with us because she said it is a "conflict of interest", but she said I was free to send her an email.  I sent her an email basically saying everything I have said above, however I also threw in that if she didn't speak with me, I was going to approach our local regulatory board for psychologists for guidance (and I was very sincere in this, I was looking for help, not hate).  Please know, I wasn't trying to be aggressive, and I had no intention of lodging a complaint because after all, I have no idea what is said in her private sessions with my daughter, but I told her that if my husband and I were going to continue to pay for the sessions, we needed assurance that our daughter's therapy was effective and going in the right direction.  She called me the same day, we had a lengthy conversation and without her revealing anything confidential, I am now confident that my daughter is not being validated to think poorly of me or my husband in any way, shape or form, and that she is being encouraged to deal with her problems going forward and without blaming others.  The psychologist and I are also on the same page in that I want my daughter to attend a private DBT clinic in our city, and the psychologist is going to help us point our daughter in the direction of wanting to go, because she feels this is in her best interest, as well.

So, I think it is worth your while to contact your daughter's therapist.  Even if only to set your mind at ease that your daughter is going in the right direction and the sessions aren't for nothing.  I think that we are entitled to this information even if our child is over the age of majority, because this is affecting our lives and those of our family too.  I have two younger sons who deserve a mother who is at least only a little crazy .  It does seem to have helped for me.  I think that the problem of having our children accuse us of being bad parents is a common problem with BPD, as I am finding on this site, and although it is difficult, it helps me to not take things personally when I see that there are other people who are experiencing the same thing. 

I wanted to comment on something that wendydarling said.  I am finding so, so much support from this site, just knowing that I am not alone, and when you posted "... .how we can change and gain our balance to manage through".  I wanted to yell at the computer YES, YES, you get it!, as I feel that I am unbalanced most if not all of the time.  I feel like I'm on a tilt-o-whirl and I can't get my balance, and comments like these help me to realize I am not alone and that maybe I can get through this.

Take care, everyone ... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders