Is it me or is sex complicated with a loved one with BPD?

[ExhaustedEmpath]

Hello,

I’m feeling frustrated, lonely and sad. My husband with bpd gave me his phone today to look at a house. I said, “Where is this?” I copied the address then went to Google to paste it. Well, the last site was a porn sure with chat rooms. I was not planning on stumbling on this.

After about 30 minutes I asked him if we could talk. I explained what happened and that due to the fact he is not having sex with me, is it because I’m not seeking the type of sex this site focused on. He said no, it’s his low self esteem and our age difference (he’s 18 years older) that is a problem. I’ve also lost some weight for both health reasons and to feel better about myself turning 50.

The blame was quickly shifted to me, he feels I breached his privacy by going to Google. My focus of talking, was to talk openly and honestly about we aren’t having sex. Am I in the wrong? If I am, I’ll own it 100%.

The BPD makes it difficult if not impossible to see my side. He’s retreated from having sex, creating a sexless marriage yet does not seem to have the capacity to see past his own feelings. He could not see why I might walk away from seeing that and wonder if I’m not enough, am I boring…

Any feedback on how sex and your loved one either BPD presents would be greatly appreciated. I feel very lonely in the problem. I want my husband to be happy and have self love on more days than not. But that may be unrealistic of me.

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[PearlsBefore]

As a non-BPD, I'd have to say "I stumbled upon my husband's porn and asked him whether it was because I wasn't having the type of sex he wanted" is extremely generous and understanding - obviously him shifting the blame to you (I'm not sure how a wife being younger possibly lessens a man's interest in her of course) is just an effort by him to escape culpability having been "caught" doing something either "a little bit naughty" or "almost cheating" based on your own views.

I'm not sure if it's BPD-specific or not, but certainly my loved one with BPD has a similar strain of belief that so long as they aren't in TROUBLE for something terrible they've done then it's like it never happened. In our case she abused the children quite frightfully I'm sorry to say, but again because police weren't able to press charges since she denied everything...she therefore has the feeling that escaping TROUBLE also erases what she's done. I'd guess it's adjacent to the haltlose that is often alongside Borderline Personality Disorder, being unable to situate themselves in a larger picture basically - living every day as a new day and convenient amnesia for wrongdoings if they aren't currently in the doghouse/prison for it then it MUST be okay and other people's fault for persecuting them.

Best of luck in your marriage; keep in mind modern society has not only normalised pornography but positively pushes it on men - and your loved one is probably not one of the mentally strongest at resisting temptation if he has a Cluster B personality disorder right?

[ExhaustedEmpath]

Thank you Pearlsbefore for your reply. I’m having a tough time with this.

The age difference issue is he’s competitive and compares us against each other. I thought through whether the age difference would bother me, which it 100% does not. My husband is a handsome, sexy man! He claims the age difference makes him feel like a cliche. I don’t know if he thought his side of the age difference through.

After a few hours of processing, the fetish of the site has been a problem. First of all, it’s based in him having low self esteem. While I’m all for fun and exploration, not at someone’s expense. He said I shamed him by bringing it up. I believe the shame lives within him. Which is so sad to me. Like I said, he’s sooo handsome.

Was I wrong by going to Google to look up the address without asking? Gaslighting has me second guessing myself.

I agree with you that people who suffer with BPD can only validate their inappropriate behavior unless they REALLY feel they’ve done damage. I own I have accepted this in the past therefore that’s my role in this.

[thankful person]

I am in a lesbian marriage and my bpd wife is 15 years younger than me with a history of abuse. We’ve been together for 10 years, and throughout our marriage it feels like she has created and announced sexual problems between us and of course always blamed me. At the moment it is the common excuse  that I am not turning her on enough and not making her feel wanted and desired. So she withholds affection and makes out I should have taken random opportunities to try and “turn her on” and the fact I didn’t means I don’t want her and don’t care. My wife is heavily pregnant and this Is a pattern where I sadly think she will blame me for the lack of sex and withhold affection which I need and crave, until the baby is a certain age, because she breast feeds and cosleeps and won’t be putting the baby down for a very long time. When our first was a baby my wife was threatening very seriously to find people online who would come round and give her a better sex life while I was at work. So yeah, totally different situation but complicated, omg yes.

[ExhaustedEmpath]

That sounds very painful, I’m sorry you are having to go through that with her.

It seems to me that sex is its own category where devalue/discard goes on. Unfortunately, it’s such a sacred space it’s all the more painful when it happens.

[EyesUp]

@EE,

There are a number of familiar themes in your situation and in the responses...  BPDs seek validation, and some seem to want or need sex for this purpose - they want their partner to initiate (most/all the time), and to do things that they perceive as validating.

Sex can also become transactional, i.e., they may initiate when they want something, or there may be "makeup sex" to avoid dealing with an argument and to validate that the relationship will continue...

In your situation, my guess (really, just a guess) is that he's blame shifting to avoid dealing with his own feelings - I'd put that aside for the moment.

There are hints in what you wrote that he may be looking elsewhere because he's insecure that you're getting healthier, while he's getting older.  It's hard not to take this personally, but some basic validation may go a long way to put him at ease and potentially get back on track.

You clearly were not out of line when using his device, or when confronting him about what you saw - however he's likely doubly threatened because he didn't intend to be discovered, and the discovery probably leads to a deeper issue that's concerning him.

This might be a good time for a refresher on some of the exercises here re: "don't be invalidating" and how to diffuse arguments.

At risk of putting salt on an open wound, depending on your comfort level with the conflict and the nature of the material he's been viewing...  you might signal your desire to reconnect and to forgive him by offering to watch some of that material together...  not necessarily to reenact it (unless, of course, you both want to), but simply to make it part of a shared vocabulary so that it's not taboo or something he needs to feel ashamed about.  Completely understand if that's out of bounds, just brainstorming here.

The good news is:  Although he may be feeling insecure, he's clearly still a sexual person...  So maybe there's a way to let him know that he has no reason to feel insecure about this?

[kells76]

Does he have a history of being an abuse victim (FOO or other)?

How close/intimate can you both get where it generally stays emotionally stable? Hand holding? Kissing? Sitting next to each other/cuddling? Other?

[50andwastedlife]

I totally get this EE. I have similar issues, but almost mirror imaged. I'm 52 and my dPBDh is 14 years older than me, and we've been together for 22 years. He's always been very open about his porn use, but it is more like an addiction than "use". When we got together I was a real mess and had very poor boundaries regarding sex, also always trying to please, so never made an issue of it. My H is very hyper-sexual (he was sexually abused by various family members, primarily mother from infancy) and would like to be "being sexy" most of the time, and I find it increasingly hard to meet his needs. But  he is also massively sensitive to the  whole issue - it is bound up in shame/humiliation and full of complex ritual behaviours and elaborate sets of self-deception.

So I would agree completely - sex SO complicated with BPD in the mix! I mean, I know it is always a "hot" topic in relationships, but all the different complexities this brings make it incredibly difficult to negotiate. (And then it's hard to feel sexy, potentially!!)

[ExhaustedEmpath]

@All… thank you for the replies. Knowing it’s not just me helps me feel not so lonely in it AND helps with the gaslighting I’ve been getting. Thus allows me to tap into the tools. Most mentioned, validation. I’m not sure how I would have validated in this situation. I thought I was being open and honest about what I saw, he saw it as an attack. No matter how many “I” statements used. The other challenge was the multitude of other topics of attack he used to devalue/discard me. That’s the most painful… the feeling of when I’m open and honest… it can turn ugly.

I tell him all the time how handsome he is and how I desire him. He usually dismisses it. Should I just do it anyway? I initiate and get turned down. I feel like I’m trying to manage an issue that really takes two.

[Outdorenthusiast]

I tell him all the time how handsome he is and how I desire him. He usually dismisses it. Should I just do it anyway? I initiate and get turned down. I feel like I’m trying to manage an issue that really takes two.

BPD or not - yes he needs to hear it.  Some of it is illness and some of it is men.  Men need to feel respected(not picked on), not controlled/nagged, with an affectionate/nurturing(not transactional/manipulative) partner.   Someone we can be emotionally safe/vulnerable with and (Don’t shoot the messenger - but we are also visual creatures). These have nothing to do with BPD - and all these can affect our sex drive.  BPD adds a whole other complicated layer.  He feels ashamed, guilty, and low self esteem.  He acts from feelings and not logic and his emotions can turn on a dime irrationally and explosive.  He is impulsive and attracted to the latest shiny or interesting thing that will give him a dopamine high.  He also lacks good judgement/boundaries.  That is the BPD.

How you responded in what you shared was really good, and very reasonable - but my guess he was ashamed and then became quickly emotionally flooded and the BPD took over.  As to turning you down - I am sorry - that must really hurt.  It could be for a multitude of reasons as listed above and you will need to sift through them.  

Sometimes safe simple nurturing affection can warm up to more, and nature takes over with us.  Sometimes boundaries need to be discussed and agreed upon if your relationship lines are being crossed.  You have feelings too- and your feelings also matter.

Hyper sexuality, closet vices, and impulsive activity are very common in BPD - you are not alone.

- Outdoorenthusiast

[ExhaustedEmpath]

Wow. A lot to process there. I did not know closet vices are prevalent in BPD. I’m open to trying more simple, hopefully safe forms of love and affection. Cuddling, hand holding etc. I’d like to see if getting back to basics will help us move forward.

[kells76]

I’m open to trying more simple, hopefully safe forms of love and affection. Cuddling, hand holding etc. I’d like to see if getting back to basics will help us move forward.

That seems smart.

My thought is that the more "low hanging fruit" successes you can have -- where you leave having had a neutral-to-positive experience together -- the more trust there will be for bigger things later on.

Does he ever communicate to you enjoyment of less emotionally intense intimacy, stuff like "I liked holding your hand" or "let's cuddle on the couch and watch a movie again sometime"?

[ExhaustedEmpath]

He will initiate holding hands or the spontaneous hug. If I cuddle up next to him, he’s usually open to it. If he’s initiating a bid for closeness, I assume he enjoys it and feels safe to do so. But he doesn’t verbalize that he does.

[Outdorenthusiast]

He will initiate holding hands or the spontaneous hug. If I cuddle up next to him, he’s usually open to it. If he’s initiating a bid for closeness, I assume he enjoys it and feels safe to do so. But he doesn’t verbalize that he does.

This is good news.  Men are usually terrible about expressing our needs - the fact that he isn’t pulling away or shutting you down is a good sign.  Avoidants have been taught to believe their feelings don’t matter - and so they need to feel emotionally safe.

As an idea - Try some affectionate nurturing moves and see his reaction.  Examples: Gentle fingers on the back of the neck, along the arm, on his back, play with his hair on the back of the head.  These moves tend to build intimacy, and emotional safety, and can unlock a vulnerable layer in avoidant guy personalities.  Don’t push, or expect - just build that low stress/safe space for him to talk (if he wants) and for you to listen.  Try these moves especially when he looks stressed/tired.  Avoidants have been taught their feelings and hurts don’t matter, so he is likely carrying them under the surface.  That simple nurturing affection can release oxytocin and bring down stress.

High stress we know exacerbates BPD tendencies.  Anything as a spouse we can do to help them manage their stress (us being emotionally even keel, not piling things on them, providing a calm environment, providing nurturing affection like to a child) I have found helps.

- Outdoorenthusiast

[Nutellaandhoney]

I can see a lot of my own issues in your post and I really thank you for being so open and so vulnerable.

 My husband and I have been together 8 years. We both discussed sex drive and needs before marriage, but literally on our wedding day his libido dried up. I tried for years. Books, toys, begging him to talk to a therapist. But we have had 6 sexless years of marriage. (I looked it up yesterday if you are curious, a sexless marriage is denoted by intercourse less than 10 times a year)

I also discovered by accident in year 3 his porn use. He just kept explaining it away and saying things would get better.

Here is the part that may help you. We had a massive discussion yesterday and our lack of intimacy came up. This is the first time he has explained it to me in any way that makes sense. On the day we were married he was keeping massive secrets from me. The SHAME of that secret overwhelmed him, and every terrible thing he has done since has just added to that feeling of shame. He said it was like if you are eating a well spiced dish and just cover it in Szechuan  peppercorn; it numbs your taste buds so you can’t experience any other flavor. He says his shame numbs and desire, any joy, anything besides trying to struggle with that numbing shame.

I explain all this because if you still have any intimacy with him, maybe knowing where it comes from and understanding how that shame feels to him could help. There is no way of knowing if his shame feels the same as my husbands, but the more I read on this site the more I feel that if I had known this sooner we might still have hope.

[ExhaustedEmpath]

The shame is real and to your point very impactful. I believe happiness is an inside job. I go to individual therapy to take care of myself, inner peace and to be my happiest self through therapeutic support on my thinking.

If I could have one wish, he would go too. I have accepted though he may not be able to. Radical acceptance.

[WordsmithOne]

I am brand new here but am already happy to have found this site! This particular issue is a HUGE one in my "it's complicated" relationship with a pwBPD. In fact, issues around this subject are the END ALL, BE ALL for my person, nothing else seems to matter more, and it is a CONSTANT point of contention in our relationship. His chief complaints being that I "don't make him feel wanted and desired" and that I "don't initiate sex often enough". Now, by my own admission, I am not the most physically affectionate person (for my own, valid reasons) but I recognize this and have readily admitted that I could work on improving this area seeing how it is important to him, from the very first time he ever brought it up.  HOWEVER, actions and behaviors on his part have since led me to take steps backwards from this effort for not feeling a sense of emotional safety (verbal abuse and name-calling). Yet, having said this, I did not withhold sexual intimacy and was always a willing and responsive participant to his advances. I am not a "prude" so to speak and have introduced him to new experiences, by his own admission. What he seems unwilling to understand, and what FURTHER hinders him getting certain things from me, is my need to feel valued and respected and to be treated with consideration and kindness FIRST. That his emotional inconsistency from moment to moment leaves me confused and insecure about our relationship status. I have tried to explain to him that anger and intimacy do not go hand in hand, that as a female I am very sensitive to objectification and to feeling like my very value is placed solely on my sexual worthiness. I have tried to explain my feelings to him in every way humanly possible, actually. For context, I am currently in his "doghouse" because I did not send him provocative pictures and videos, after having expressed being uncomfortable with doing so for reasons explained above. I ultimately believe that it all comes down to his hyper-vigilance around perceived rejection, etc. Valid, but this is a subject requiring ultimate sensitivity and consideration, and being made to feel sexually "inadequate" is not conducive to him getting what he wants from me, and it isn't something that I can just "give him his way" about without devaluing my own self. A long-winded response not meant to detract from your question, but to (hopefully) give you some validation that it isn't a "you" thing, no matter how it may feel (really sh***y). 

[Amina]

I've been on and off with a man with untreated Cluster B/s, and he is definitely the most odd in the bedroom I've ever met.  He's alluded to incest in childhood, but then says he was joking.  He often says inappropriate or sad traumatic things, and then says he was joking. Sometimes i reach out with nice things/photos, etc. and his responses are abusive, such as "you are acting like a whore," with no basis in reality.  I'm not sure how he still has a job, but he did text me and a friend recently and said "get fired from you job, commit suicide." I tried to ask him about this worrisome statement, and he got angry I spoke to his friend, even though he texted us both in a group text.  In my opinion, unless you are very close with someone, these behaviors in the population are under diagnosed, and under the radar/easy for buddies and the community to ignore. However, most people would say he is moody and brooding, but not think beyond that--they have more important things to do with their time.