Amazing words from Jordan Peterson

[Gravity Man]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/y1WJLDYlhDs

I wish I had heard this decades ago.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gemsforeyes]

There were many comments addressing Jordan Peterson in 2018.  Thank you for bringing this forward.

Gems

[Gemsforeyes]

Please Forgive me.  I didn’t realize the controversy surrounding this author / speaker subsequent to 2018. 

Gems

[SnailShell]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/y1WJLDYlhDs

I wish I had heard this decades ago.

This is indeed helpful for me too - I think

What stuck out to you?

[RevScot]

It seems (for me anyway) like this advice gets really tricky when dealing with an uBPD spouse.  9 days out of 10 I don't feel wanted because of the BPD.  But she's never left, never been unfaithful that I know of, and says her every intention is to make our marriage better.  The very traits of BPD would seem to suggest the BPD partner is not acting out their best inner intentions.  I wonder if Peterson would make these same statements when dealing with BPD couples?

[seekingtheway]

When I listen to the words in that video, I wonder whether it applies to all the people who have an avoidant attachment style, which is triggered by the treat of being engulfed within the relationship. And many times, the nervous system will be activated in such a way that makes them want to shut down or leave the relationship.

Those who tend to fight for a relationship will sit in the anxious attachment side. It's wired into us anxious attachers to do whatever it takes to fight for a relationship, as that's what we were shown in childhood we had to do in order to keep love and connection, and we are terrified by the idea of being abandoned, so we will do anything to avoid that.

Whereas someone who is secure is more likely to make effort, but not at the risk of losing themselves.

There was an Instagram post by the Holistic Psychologist recently that said something along the lines of 'it's false to assume that 'if someone wanted to, they would'. She says we overestimate people's capacity for emotional regulation, conflict resolution and self-reflection. Many people want to, but can't. These are simply their limits, and they are nothing to do with us.

I think there's wisdom in what he says about letting go of someone who clearly doesn't want to be there, but I wonder if it might be more accurate to realise there is a whole lifetime of conditioning, trauma, genetics and attachment systems behind someone's ability to be in a relationship, particularly a healthy one.

[SnailShell]

When I listen to the words in that video, I wonder whether it applies to all the people who have an avoidant attachment style, which is triggered by the treat of being engulfed within the relationship. And many times, the nervous system will be activated in such a way that makes them want to shut down or leave the relationship.

Those who tend to fight for a relationship will sit in the anxious attachment side. It's wired into us anxious attachers to do whatever it takes to fight for a relationship, as that's what we were shown in childhood we had to do in order to keep love and connection, and we are terrified by the idea of being abandoned, so we will do anything to avoid that.

Whereas someone who is secure is more likely to make effort, but not at the risk of losing themselves.

There was an Instagram post by the Holistic Psychologist recently that said something along the lines of 'it's false to assume that 'if someone wanted to, they would'. She says we overestimate people's capacity for emotional regulation, conflict resolution and self-reflection. Many people want to, but can't. These are simply their limits, and they are nothing to do with us.

I think there's wisdom in what he says about letting go of someone who clearly doesn't want to be there, but I wonder if it might be more accurate to realise there is a whole lifetime of conditioning, trauma, genetics and attachment systems behind someone's ability to be in a relationship, particularly a healthy one.

I saw that holistic psychologist post.

But… I don’t know!

I agree with it, I think…ish…

But… I think there’s a real helpful clarity in saying

“At the end of the day, if ‘x’ hasn’t done something, and they’re an adult, they don’t want it enough. Even if they sort of want to, there are other forces inside them stopping it from happening, and that’s all I need to know to move forward myself.”

I see the helpfulness though, because I’m prone to overwhelm and sometimes I wish one or two friends understood that better (no one pushes me really, I just wish I could show that I care, even when I withdraw for a short time).

Perhaps one solution is to say -

“If they wanted to, they would - in the long term. In the short term, things can get in the way sometimes. Watch the pattern over a period of time, and the sustained behaviour tells you enough to know broadly where they’re at.”

I think it’s a call to stop excusing dismissive behaviour, or ignoring things which clearly give you enough information to make a decision.

I get that it’s not very nuanced though…

[SnailShell]

(Also, all friendships and relationships need a little grace as well…)

[CC43]

I don't know if I agree.  I like the spirit of the message--it takes two to tango, for sure.  But I think a relationship does takes work (from both parties) for it to work.  However, there's a huge difference between working to make a relationship strong, and having to fight for it all the time.  And when it comes to BPD, their dysregulated thinking and emotions mean that they aren't fighting fairly!  So I think the question isn't necessarily, do we BOTH want the relationship to work?  It's possible that you both want a loving relationship, but the untreated BPD partner's wants are likely amorphous and totally unrealistic, and so she's constantly dissatisfied and aggrieved, and so she's constantly lashing out and fighting unfairly.  Living in a battlefield day in and day out can leave one wounded and shell-shocked.  What sort of relationship is that?  I'm not saying that couples never fight, but I think the question is, why and how much are you fighting, are the fights even justified and fair, and can you resolve them reasonably amicably?  Or are you living in a battlefield?

The other analogy that comes to mind is a black hole of neediness.  To adapt Mr. Peterson's message to BPD, no amount of work, or kindness, or money, or or proving oneself, or unconditional love can fill a black hole of neediness.  She might want to be kept by you, but her needs are endless if she's untreated, and you can't possibly make her feel better.  Only she can do that, with serious therapy and changes in HER attitudes and behaviors.