Raging at me, but wants to spend time with me?

[LukeSW]

Is anyone confused by the apparent contradiction, that my uBPDw has a list longer than a NBA player's arm of why I am a terrible husband, father and barely a human (... at least maybe a human piece of s#^!) yet accuses me in the next breathe of not wanting to spend any "quality time" with her.  I mean, she hasn't explicitly said she hates me (at least not so often), but there doesn't seem any worse descriptors left for someone she may hate.

The common list would be:
Weak a^r$& piece of s#^!, neglectful husband, permissive parent, unsupportive husband, who always f@^&s things up, arrogant, big-man, argumentative, Mr Right, manic, self-centred, Bipolar Crazy, smart a^r$&, no empathy, no compassion, autistic, OCD, more-pathetic-than-your-father, brainwashed-by-your-mum, judgemental,  "emotionally, psychologically and mentally abusive", A gas-lighter, hypocrite, self-righteous, misogynist, woman-hater, habitual-liar, lacking emotions, missing-an-empathy-chip, self-deceived, "lost in lah, lah land", weird, just an out and out d$%@-head, hurtful, untrustworthy, dismissive, deceptive, secretive, a robot, not-in-touch-with-your-emotions, pathetic-coward, memory-like-a-sieve, 'always-playing-the-victim', lazy, unsocial, socially-awkward, immature, unable-to-have-a-hard-conversation, all-ways-sides-with-the-kids, always-sides-with-your-parents, always-sides-with-your-friends, insensitive, not kind, so mean, intentionally-hurtful, so-wise-in-your-own-eyes, patronising, authoritative, married-to-your-own-daughter, always-playing-matesy-with-your-son, talk-a-tough-game-on-the-right-while-you-live-like-a-soft-c0^*-on-the-left...

I have left out some of the more obscure Australian sayings... but think this is enough for you to get the picture here.

To summarise, I heard there was a book called, "I hate you, don't leave me".

Does anyone else experience something like this phenomena?

Constant critique when I am with her, but then she feels "totally abandoned and rejected" if I mention needing some time to myself or "having a break so we can come back to talk calmly".

My first post here, so I may be naive about many things, my apologies ahead of time, many thanks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Under The Bridge]

Welcome to the site. I think the answer to your question 'Does anyone else experience something like this phenomena?' is a resounding 'Yes, all of us to one degree or another'.

If you read through the posts you'll quickly see that these are all standard traits of BPD and often we can't do right for doing wrong. The many tutorials and articles on here give great advice for dealing with these situations and hopefully lessening them and improving relationships.

There is another excellent BDP book called 'Stop Walking On Eggshells' which I just found is on Youtube as an audiobook so might be worth a listen when you're on your own.

You are definitely not alone in your experiences though.

Best wishes.

[RevScot]

I'm currently in the midst of this exact scenario and experience it regularly.  "You're useless at everything you do, here's a list of things that need to be done".  Uh...what?  I've concluded as long as I allow this abusive behaviour (devaluing me) and continue to do the list of things needing to be done, I'm actually enabling the abusive behaviour.  No idea if this is the right thing do do, and I'd actually like some input, but I've said as long as I'm being devalued there won't be any more discussion about what she'd like me to accomplish.

I also regularly experience constant critique and overall rejection while together, but the moment I mention wanting a day or two out of the house to catch my breath she pours on the guilt.

You're not alone mate, this is classic BPD behaviour.

[CC43]

Hi there Luke,

One thing you might keep in mind is the concept of projection.  You see, your loved one with BPD probably has very negative self-talk, and she beats herself up for her perceived failings.  In fact, she might do this so much that she interprets the world through this negative and distorted lens.  Because she can't stand being so needy/self-centered/dysregulated/irrational/judgmental/lying/abusive/angry, she'll turn around and deflect, or project, her own misgivings onto other people, usually her loved ones.  Let's break down what she says, and I'll highlight some words that probably reflect her own behavior more than yours:

Weak a^r$& piece of s#^!, neglectful husband, permissive parent, unsupportive husband, who always f@^&s things up, arrogant, big-man, argumentative, Mr Right, manic, self-centred, Bipolar Crazy, smart a^r$&, no empathy, no compassion, autistic, OCD, more-pathetic-than-your-father, brainwashed-by-your-mum, judgemental,  "emotionally, psychologically and mentally abusive", A gas-lighter, hypocrite, self-righteous, misogynist, woman-hater, habitual-liar, lacking emotions, missing-an-empathy-chip, self-deceived, "lost in lah, lah land", weird, just an out and out d$%@-head, hurtful, untrustworthy, dismissive, deceptive, secretive, a robot, not-in-touch-with-your-emotions, pathetic-coward, memory-like-a-sieve, 'always-playing-the-victim', lazy, unsocial, socially-awkward, immature, unable-to-have-a-hard-conversation, all-ways-sides-with-the-kids, always-sides-with-your-parents, always-sides-with-your-friends, insensitive, not kind, so mean, intentionally-hurtful, so-wise-in-your-own-eyes, patronising, authoritative, married-to-your-own-daughter, always-playing-matesy-with-your-son, talk-a-tough-game-on-the-right-while-you-live-like-a-soft-c0^*-on-the-left...

I have an adult stepdaughter with BPD, and her rants often sounded like the one you quoted.  In fact, by listening for the feelings behind the rants and rages, I could typically detect what was really bothering her, underneath it all.  One example is that she was obsessed with feeling childlike, probably because she was behind in hitting some adult milestones, like living independently or having a romantic relationship.  So she'd accuse others of being condescending, controlling, incompetent and treating her like a child (even if they did no such thing).  She'd often blurt out, "I can do whatever I want, I'm not a baby!"  But really she was communicating her subliminal worries about being immature and childish.  One example was when her aunt offered her some water on a hot day, and my stepdaughter unleashed a tirade, accusing her aunt of being condescending and talking down to her, and then threatening the poor aunt with violence, followed by cutting her completely out of her life.  To this day, my stepdaughter refuses to be in the same room as her aunt, even during the holidays, because of the offense of offering water.  But you see, that wasn't what was wrong.  My stepdaughter was unhinged because she felt incompetent and unprepared when she last visited with her aunt (there's a back story, but suffice it to say that my stepdaughter messed something up and didn't get what she wanted).  But instead of handling the disappointment, she blamed her poor aunt, and projected her negative thoughts about being immature onto the aunt.

Now, if you listen to what your wife is really saying, can you see how it might be a projection?  With so many accusations, it seems to me like she's totally unhinged right now.  She's not getting her needs met, and she's not getting therapy, so she's turning around and taking it out on you, blaming you for all her own problems and misperceptions.  That's why she doesn't seem to make much sense, if you take her words at face value.  But if you understand that her words are a reflection of her worries, and basically a coping mechanism, then maybe you won't take everything so personally.  If she's screaming at you and blaming you, take it as a sign that she's dysregulated.  She's overpowered by her negative emotions, and she's not really thinking logically.  In fact, she seems angry that you get on so well with your kids.  A healthy mom would love for her husband to have a close relationship with the kids, but reading your wife's words tells me that she feels left out.  Maybe she wants to be the center of your attention all the time, and the kids are competition for that.  Or maybe she's jealous that she perceives that the kids like you more than they like her.  Maybe it's both.  But instead of finding a potential solution the problem--say, proposing a mother-daughter activity--she's projecting her concern, and at the same time, she's blaming you.

[ForeverDad]

Now, if you listen to what your wife is really saying, can you see how it might be a projection?  With so many accusations, it seems to me like she's totally unhinged right now.  She's not getting her needs met, and she's not getting therapy, so she's turning around and taking it out on you, blaming you for all her own problems and misperceptions.  That's why she doesn't seem to make much sense, if you take her words at face value.  But if you understand that her words are a reflection of her worries, and basically a coping mechanism, then maybe you won't take everything so personally.  If she's screaming at you and blaming you, take it as a sign that she's dysregulated.  She's overpowered by her negative emotions, and she's not really thinking logically.  In fact, she seems angry that you get on so well with your kids.  A healthy mom would love for her husband to have a close relationship with the kids, but reading your wife's words tells me that she feels left out.  Maybe she wants to be the center of your attention all the time, and the kids are competition for that.  Or maybe she's jealous that she perceives that the kids like you more than they like her.  Maybe it's both.  But instead of finding a potential solution the problem--say, proposing a mother-daughter activity--she's projecting her concern, and at the same time, she's blaming you.

I'll add a couple observations, like so many of the others here I've "been there, experienced that".

Why is your partner so intensely focused on you?  You have to comprehend a core aspect of Borderline Personality Disorder... it is a disorder most impactful to close relationships, although people on the periphery may only notice something 'off'.  So your spouse's extreme attacks are *because* of the close relationship.  We all have personality traits.  After all, we're not robots on an assembly line.  But when traits get out of norms, then the dysfunction becomes so evident.  And in cases like this, so harmful.

What could turn around these attacks?  People with BPD traits (pwBPD) often never get officially diagnosed, not even by therapists.  But, that said, the path toward recovery is meaningful therapy.  It would be a long road, but only if meaningful therapy starts and continues.  The problem is that most pwBPD with serious dysfunctional patterns are extremely resistant to the concept of therapy.  Denial, projection, blaming, blame shifting, etc is so strong.  Even if you can manage to get your spouse to start therapy, be aware the other may declare after a few sessions "I'm okay now, I don't need it any more."  Recovery takes time, quickie fixes don't last.

[LukeSW]

Thanks so much to each reply.
I really appreciate the time care in each response...
That is a lot of content to comprehend, work through and apply.
Give a few days to process.  Really helpful.

[ForeverDad]

I heard there was a book called, "I hate you, don't leave me".

It's called a dysfunctional dance... you are pulled in then pushed away, over and over again.

The current environment with all its ups and downs like a runaway roller coaster, as unhealthy as it is, would appear to 'work' for her.  Obviously and sadly, it doesn't work for those around her.

You can't fix her.  If you could, she would already be fixed.  But since it's a close relationship disorder, besides her own personal issues she can't get past the emotional baggage of the relationship's history and entanglement.  In nearly all cases, recovery - if it might happen - is usually under the guidance of someone not in a close emotional relationship such as a therapist.  And she would want it to happen.

Ponder and we welcome you back soon.

[LukeSW]

Hello "Under the Bridge",

Thanks for your input.

There is "great advice for dealing with these situations and hopefully lessening them and improving relationships."

Thanks for the tip about YouTube audio book.  I will get to it.  appreciated

[LukeSW]

Hello RevScot

Thanks so much for your post...

"I'm currently in the midst of this exact scenario and experience it regularly.  "You're useless at everything you do, here's a list of things that need to be done".  Uh...what"

I can't tell you how many times I have heard this almost word for word... How is that possible?  do you know my wife?

"I've concluded as long as I allow this abusive behaviour (devaluing me) and continue to do the list of things needing to be done, I'm actually enabling the abusive behaviour."

Ok so, kind of get what you are saying here... It won't be long until this happens again so I will let you know how I go in real time trying to apply what you guys have taught me here...

[LukeSW]

 "In fact, by listening for the feelings behind the rants and rages, I could typically detect what was really bothering her, underneath it all."

Hi CC43,

I was re-reading your reply, and the sentence above gave me hope that there was a way to understand and connect with my wife by "listening for the feelings".

I do practice, plenty of reflective listening that focuses on her thoughts, feelings and beliefs.  This requires plenty of discipline and patience on my part, to "let go" of her name calling, sarcasm, mocking and accusations (and let them go through to the keeper).   But even though I am deferring  to hearing her perspectives, she just seems to ramp up with more aggression, even more with the telling.

On occasions, it can seem like she calms down, but very rarely is there any "resolution" of a "particular issue".  When her thoughts and feelings become negatively framed, the momentum of negativity, anger and rage are like a "run-away-train".

Is there any way forward, to turn a conversation around, and re-establish connection?