Trying to move on

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

It's been about 6 weeks after my partner I bought a house with left one morning while I was sleeping and never came back. She's since then blocked me on social media. I learned from friends that she was trying to turn friends against me in the first few days. I found out that we broke up from those friends. I don't want to go through this again. It's the worst break up I've ever experienced. Being ghosted is painful. I thought we were very close. We never had explosive arguments or anything. And three days before she left she said she'd never loved anyone as much as me. She said she'd loved that she could be herself. Then she was gone.

For my part, I was starting to notice patterns: she couldn't keep a job for longer than 5 months. She burned bridges. It didn't matter the job, she was always fighting with her bosses. That instability started to bother me. And I wondered how sustainable this was.

I'm a pretty stable person. Same job for 12 years. Kids. Lots of long term friendships. I'm friends with my ex gfs. So this is new to me.

It's strange how much I feel disoriented by this. I don't want her back, but I desire closure. I know I won't get it. But I can't seem to move on.

Has anyone healed from this ghosting? How? I know it will take time, but does anyone have any pointers?

[Without4clue]

It's been about 6 weeks after my partner I bought a house with left one morning while I was sleeping and never came back. She's since then blocked me on social media. I learned from friends that she was trying to turn friends against me in the first few days. I found out that we broke up from those friends. I don't want to go through this again. It's the worst break up I've ever experienced. Being ghosted is painful. I thought we were very close. We never had explosive arguments or anything. And three days before she left she said she'd never loved anyone as much as me. She said she'd loved that she could be herself. Then she was gone.

For my part, I was starting to notice patterns: she couldn't keep a job for longer than 5 months. She burned bridges. It didn't matter the job, she was always fighting with her bosses. That instability started to bother me. And I wondered how sustainable this was.

I'm a pretty stable person. Same job for 12 years. Kids. Lots of long term friendships. I'm friends with my ex gfs. So this is new to me.

It's strange how much I feel disoriented by this. I don't want her back, but I desire closure. I know I won't get it. But I can't seem to move on.

Has anyone healed from this ghosting? How? I know it will take time, but does anyone have any pointers?

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry we're meeting under these circumstances and so many of us here have similar stories.  Another commonality is that we rarely receive direct closure from the person who vanished...although it does happen occasionally.

In my case, my wife of 23 years started feeling depressed and shutting down completely for days at a time.  Usually she'd bounce back quickly, but the final time she didn't.  Communication all but stopped and it was obvious something massive was happening...but I couldn't imagine she'd just walk out one day.  How does someone do that?  It made zero sense.

Through this website and brief conversations with my wife (now ex-wife) over a two year period, I found the closure I so desperately needed.  She had undiagnosed BPD and hated our marriage, our lifestyle, even though she pretended everything was fine.  It ate away at her and she steadily shut down more and more, looking for something or someone to blame. 

Like you, we didn't fight and got along well.  Like you, the previous month she wrote a long Facebook post about how much she loved me and what I great husband I was.

However, what I couldn't see (or anyone, for that matter) was that my wife was completely broken inside and suffering.  She couldn't shake the dread in her heart, couldn't figure out what was wrong or why she was always on the verge of tears.  And she finally just decided that the marriage must be the core of her problems.

The last few weeks that she was at home, things took a very dark turn.  She would snap at me over little things and most of the time, she would avoid me completely.  In her mind she was splitting, which is a process of painting someone black and seeing them as the enemy.  So she stayed silent and cried herself to sleep, thinking about every lousy thing I did to her over the past 20+ years.

On that judgement scale, our worst moments over 20+ years, we're all monsters.  And my wife convinced herself that I had been mentally abusing her for way too long.  Like you, she started bad-mouthing me to others...including our young adult kids.  She also confessed feelings for her employer to our youngest daughter (who was 9 months pregnant) and forbade her to tell me.  Then one Friday afternoon, she just walked out the door and said it wasn't working anymore.

Can I make total sense of that?  Not really.  But the key to understanding it is that there was severe mental illness driving my wife's decision making.  None of this represented the type of wife she was, what type of person she was.  In fact, nobody could believe what was actually happening or why she wouldn't try to reconcile.  She simply made me out to be a terrible person behind closed doors and most people believed it.

At first, I felt sorry for my wife...not knowing that she was pursuing her boss and all of this was really just adultery.  Then I was angry for a long stretch as the betrayal truly sunk in.  But eventually, I landed on compassion as I truly understood how miserable she was and how hard she tried to hide it from the entire world.

So let me give you a few "truths" that help the healing process:

1) This has nothing to do with you; this is about mental illness and her feeling broken inside.

2) She probably didn't want to hurt you, but she was hurting so badly that it felt like her only option.

3) There's nothing you can do to "fix her", only she can fix herself through therapy and hard work.

Your path forward is focusing on your own mental health and wellbeing, regardless if you reconcile or not.  If you're like me, then you're probably still in shock six weeks out and it's hard to know which end is up.  Everyone here can relate and it's a horrible feeling.  Consider counseling since you're going through trauma and need more perspective.  And lean on friends/family as much as possible- not to explain what happened, but just to fill your life outside the relationship.

Over time, you need to rediscover the old you before all this happened.  There's no timelines for that; some do it in months and it takes others years.  Those who struggle to move on can't process what I explained earlier....this is not actually about you, it's about feeling broken and empty and the desperation to do anything that makes those feelings subside.  That's why she left...that's why they all leave.  It stinks but it's the truth.

I hope that helped!  Please feel free to vent or ask questions as often as needed!

[Without4clue]

I'm so sorry to hear that you know what this feels like. I can't imagine 23 years. We only had 3. And those years were 3 of my best. I learned so much and grew so much.

What you described sounds very difficult. I am learning to see that this is not about me. The context I have to understand this is helping a lot. Thank you for sharing your story. And again, I'm sorry. I don't wish these confused feelings on anyone.

I'm logically thinking that it's good that she left now, instead of 10 years from now. When she left, I determined that she wasn't returning after I received a change of address notice. So I started the process of buying her share of the house from her. I communicated through her friends and she got an attorney. That was probably good, because she wasn't going to talk with me. But in that process I discovered that there was a lien on the house for $9500 which was a result of a credit card judgement against her. It had been there for 5 months. I don't know if she knew about it, but her financial problems could have become a significant problem for me and my kids.

I thought that we were pretty good together. But I never wanted to marry her, mostly because I don't want to get married, but also because of her money issues. I felt like making myself vulnerable that way would be a problem. I didn't understand why she asked me to marry her multiple times after she made clear she didn't want to get married again. She'd been married twice before.

I didn't think this relationship would be forever. But I also thought it wouldn't end like this. I still sometimes think she'll walk through the door and sit down to watch tv or receive a hug. That feeling is slowly fading, but it's there.

I still wonder how she's doing. And I wonder if she knew this was a problem she had when we met. She told me that it was imperative that she stay on meds and in therapy. But finances meant she couldn't be in therapy regularly. She quit 6 jobs in 3 years.

After she left, I ran into some of her friends. They made sure to tell me that they didn't have any issue with me, that she was "triggered," or she was working with the "tools" she had. They called her "stubborn" and swore she was safe and solid. Their responses puzzle me too. A 41 year old person leaves home with just a change of clothes and a dog, stays in a hotel for three weeks, and leaves behind a relationship of three good years without a word and she's solid? Didn't seem like it to me.

If not for one of her friends telling me that she was making me out to be a monster, I'd still be clueless. That's what led me to BPD. I'm not a monster. Her last and only complaint about me the night before she left was that "I raise my eyebrows at her, leave the room sometimes, and say short comments like 'cool' when she tries to talk to me when I'm mad." I don't yell, attack her character, or demonstrate any threatening physical behavior. And they all acknowledge that. Yet, no one is acting alarmed except for one person. And are just happens to be the one who is the newest to the inner circle of my ex's friends. Of course, she's now been cut out of the inner circle.


I'm struggling to know who to trust, I feel like it might be best to just lean on the friends I had before I met her. This situation feels so messy. Everyone has been forced to take sides. I'm a 48 year old man. I don't want anyone taking sides over me. I'm not in junior high.

So it feels like I didn't only lose a love and a best friend, I lost a group of friends. Even though they say they have nothing against me, I feel totally shut out. None of them have asked how me and my daughter are doing. And one of them, my ex's best friend has moved my ex into her house. They have always had a very odd relationship--it's almost like they are lovers. I know my ex tried to kiss her once. She's an older woman who collects outcasts. My ex calls her her best friend. And she runs to her for safety like some people run to their mother.

I find some peace knowing that she'll have food, shelter, and companionship there. But I feel like her friends and her bf enable her and won't encourage her to get help... I guess that's none of my business now. But it makes me want to steer clear of them. They seem to mean well, but their lack of boundaries bothers me. Well, I suppose they have boundaries with me...

I'm rambling. There's just so much to process. I'm grateful for this site. Without context, I was feeling so awful. And I hate to think she was feeling so much pain all along. It makes sense now why the slightest sign that I was unhappy sent her into a frenzy to fix me. It makes sense why she spent so much money on the perfect gift for everyone in her life. It makes sense why she had so many people she had to avoid around town. It made sense why she couldn't keep a job, maintain any financial stability, and was in severe debt.

Making sense is helping me. And recognizing that she probably tried really hard to make us work. She likely didn't try to hurt me or ghost my daughter. She's not well. And I hope she gets the help she needs to be well. I can't be part of that. It's too much for me. I've got my own journey to navigate. I think this realization will be the source of emotional freedom for me. But this is all the logic I can muster. I still feel the shock of it all in my body sometimes. I hope that leaves soon.

Thanks for listening

[Pook075]

So it feels like I didn't only lose a love and a best friend, I lost a group of friends. Even though they say they have nothing against me, I feel totally shut out.

That's the hardest part for me as well; I had in-laws that I cared for a great deal.  My mother in law's birthday was 3 days ago and it's the first time in 25+ years that I didn't call or visit, that ate at me a little bit because I do love her.  But we have no choice but to let that stuff go.

Reaching out to those friends and family members is often not a good idea...at least not right away.  Those conversations will always circle back around to the relationship, and doing that turns the topic to who did what.  It's just not healthy to revisit that so often. 

You ex's story is valid in her mind, she had to "feel better".  BPD's are always chasing feelings even though they come and go for them.  They feel incredible on the highs and devastated on the lows.  Like a drug addict, they'll do almost anything for that next high, it makes sense to them because the alternative is so painful.  They can go so much lower than us in sadness, depression, etc...it's like they don't have a rock bottom sometimes.

I'm rambling. There's just so much to process. I'm grateful for this site.

You're not rambling, you're processing what happened and allowing yourself to deal with the emotions attached to that.  Your mind is searching for things like "normal" and "truth".  That's a good thing, it's healthy.  So keep doing it.

Just remember, I gave you the truth up front- she's sick, nobody can save her, and this wasn't about you.  Her path to healing is breaking the same cycles she's been doing her entire life, and only she can decide to do that.  It's incredibly hard, almost impossible, and it will take considerable strength and courage.  Like I said earlier, I feel for her.

She's an older woman who collects outcasts. My ex calls her her best friend. And she runs to her for safety like some people run to their mother.

I didn't mention it earlier, but I have a 26 year old BPD daughter with my BPD ex wife.  Both of them gravitate towards others with mental illness because within all that chaos, they feel normal and it validates their feelings.  On this site, validation is a big topic to help BPD's feel safe...it just so happens that others with mental illness thrive in this skill because they understand what it feels like to be on the other end.  So they thrive off each other's unstable energy and spiral together.

Think about it- I'm broken and you're broken because of a similar reason.  That makes us brothers....we're not crazy because it happened to both of us (and others here).  We feel better because we share this within our life experience, and BPD's do the exact same thing.

The difference is that right now, you're grieving and getting back to your new normal.  Your ex will always seek out those relationships because they make her feel normal.  One is healing, the other is staying broken.  That's why you can't wallow in pity while feeling like a victim...it's okay for now, but eventually you have to find the path to move on and let go of all this.  And you 100% will in time.

Just keep talking, keep feeling, and let us know how we can help.  I'm sure others will chime in soon enough.

[Without4clue]

Thank you. I am beginning to feel more and more like myself.

I have found myself ruminating on the relationship more than I would like. I've been asking myself if I'm being totally honest with myself about my role in all of this? How do I know for sure that I'm not all the things she said I am?

So I went back through 3 years of text messages to see what I could learn. From  early on, I found that her sensitivity to my frustrations became central to our interactions. One time she found my tone and admittedly passive aggressive comments devastating to her. What looking back seemed to be a problem of me not stating directly how I was feeling became for her a reason to completely withdraw and tell me that she was so physically ill because of our conversation that she was having digestive issues and couldn't sleep. She told me that she believed I was setting her up to fail in our relationship and that I was comparing her to my ex-wife--which was not the case.

Another time she blamed me for causing an argument that only began because she decided to help me with something I didn't ask her to help me with. When I got distracted by another project, she got angry with me. And I told her that she created this problem by doing something FOR me that I didn't ask for and then getting angry that I wasn't grateful for her help.

In the first scenario, I was so troubled that she was hurting so deeply that I wanted to apologize for hurting her with my passive aggressive words. But I also wanted to correct her narration of how I felt towards her. In the second scenario, I didn't see any reason to apologize. I felt she had created a situation that we had discussed a few days before. I felt uncomfortable when she tried to "fix" me or do things for me that I didn't ask for because I felt like she depended upon me responding with elation and deep gratitude. If I didn't like something as much as she wanted me to or wanted space to deal with my emotions alone, then she would cry or become "shaken" and leave the house or express fears that I might "kick her out."

These responses were very strange to me. I never yelled at her. I never called her names. I never questioned her character. I never threatened to punish her by taking anything away from her or making her leave. I bought the house with my resources and put her name on the deed to establish an equal partnership. I also bought nearly everything in the house because she couldn't keep a job for longer than 5 months. But she seemed to keep a record of wrongs about how she was doing so much and others were doing so little to help her. And at the same time she expressed deep insecurity about how little she could contribute financially and recognition that I was giving a lot.

In this context, I often felt confused. Her way of narrating things always seemed to go back to her being a victim of a working too hard at things she insisted on doing. It was almost as if she volunteered for tasks that were overwhelming, just so that later she could blame others when the task became inevitably too much to handle. It was very confusing to me.

So, I didn't apologize for those things. I couldn't. It didn't feel honest or helpful.and looking back I still don't feel sorry or responsible for the hurt she felt when she gave more than was asked or she over helped or crossed boundaries by "fixing." On one occasion she admitted to having a problem with "fixing" and then blamed me for voicing a frustration about the house out loud because I should've known it would trigger her "fixing problem."

As I write this, it makes sense to me that I didn't say sorry in these scenarios. But now part of the narrative she's spread amongst her friends is that I'm a narcissist. One of the traits is that NPDs don't apologize. And they don't show empathy. And in those moments I didn't. I found her behavior nonsensical (I didn't know what BPD was at the time). So I mostly ignored the inconsistencies and focused on sharing practical solutions to the problems like telling her that I cared about her, I would never kick her out because we're partners and she owns the house too, and that I often need her to tell me or ask me about helping me with something before she does it, so that I can clearly communicate what I want or need. That way she won't be disappointed by giving too much where it won't be appreciated.

In other words, I didn't apologize at the times she was likely most deeply hurting. I wasn't psychologizing or trying to teach her a lesson. But she told me in our final conversation that my responses to her signified that I acted "superior" to her--which I never felt. I certainly thought that sometimes her logic about me was wrong. And so I would tell her what I really thought or felt. To her that meant I was blaming her for her devastatingly painful feelings. And in a way I was.

So I'm left wondering if there was anything I could've done differently? Should I have apologized? Would that have been honest? Would it have been healthy for me?

And I'm also wondering why I decided that we had a healthy relationship, when it was clearly troubled from early on when the smallest shift in my tone or implied frustration with her could cause such turmoil in her? This feels like my growth area. Why didn't I see what I was participating in? I was "rescuing" and willing to overlook her self-victimization and martyrdom instead of seeing it for what it was and letting her go. Why didn't I hold on for so long?

[Pook075]

In this context, I often felt confused. Her way of narrating things always seemed to go back to her being a victim of a working too hard at things she insisted on doing.

Because in her mind, she's always been the victim that's not understood, not cherished.  BPD brings a tremendous fear of abandonment, and it can be so strong at times that everything is studied under a microscope for reasons to suggest the relationship is failing.

My ex also called me a narcissist, and in the end she brought up a few incidents from 20+ years ago to prove it.  Both incidents were fights that she started, that she physically hit me in before I actually responded.  It's sad but it's her truth.

So I'm left wondering if there was anything I could've done differently? Should I have apologized? Would that have been honest? Would it have been healthy for me?

With my daughter, I've learned that we can never validate the invalid...but we can validate the feelings that bring out the invalid thinking.  For example, if we're together and I smash my finger with a hammer while working on a project, I might say a few ugly things.  Maybe I even cuss at the hammer, LOL.  But in that instance, you understand why I'm lashing out and you take the appropriate action (grabbing a band-aid, grabbing ice, whatever).

It's so easy to see the physical stuff, but equally hard to see the emotional side.  That's where these relationships go off the rails.  When your ex made grand gestures that didn't get her the praise she felt that she deserved, it was like getting hit with a hammer.  But you didn't see it because you didn't understand what was going on.  No, you shouldn't have praised her for jumping into your project....but you should have apologized for her feelings being hurt. 

That's validating what's valid...she feels disrespected, so you show love and respect so her mind balances out and moves on from the "devastating moment".  We just had no idea that those moments meant so much.

Would it have been healthy for you- it's possible to get there with very thick skin and a lot of patience.  I've learned with my BPD daughter that sometimes she's going to yell at me over having a bad day and being stressed, and her anger has nothing to do with me.  If i can avoid taking it personally and show compassion in that moment, then it passes and we get on with our day. 

I can now do that with my ex-wife as well, but it feels like a different dynamic.  I don't know if I ever could have gotten back to "healthy" if we reconciled because of that victim mentality.  There was always one more unspoken thing to blame me for regardless of how hard I tried.

And I'm also wondering why I decided that we had a healthy relationship, when it was clearly troubled from early on when the smallest shift in my tone or implied frustration with her could cause such turmoil in her? This feels like my growth area.

It absolutely is your growth area and it's great you recognized it.  I did the exact same thing and thought I was in a healthy, loving marriage.  When we separated, one of my best friends mentioned that I had said a few years earlier that, "I was trapped in a sexless, loveless marriage."  At first, I couldn't even recall saying that, but the more the time passed, the more I realized that I felt that way a whole lot. 

I had done it so much, in fact, that I stopped prioritizing myself to try and make my wife happy.

In a normal relationship, that would have been enough to turn things around.  But with BPD there's so much that goes unsaid, so many deep rooted problems that remain hidden (partially because they're not real, they're invented with disordered thinking and fear of abandonment).  It's almost impossible to realize what's going on at any given time because you have to be so in-tune with their emotions.

The key to moving forward is putting yourself first in healthy ways. Many of us here sought counseling to get over our relationships, and it was actually helpful to talk it out and have a therapist to say, "you made healthy, logical decisions in those circumstances."  So don't focus too much on what you got "wrong".  Those mistakes hurt the relationship that was physically and mentally harming your own ego and self-worth.

Again, I'm not trying to paint her in a bad light...I do feel for her and what she deals with on a daily basis.  But at the same time, you must put yourself first and her victim mentality was sometimes damaging to you (often more than you realized).

I hope that helps!

[Without4clue]

It does help. Thank you. It's validating to hear that other people understand my experience. It's like you were there and you see me!

Ultimately, I think my boundaries saved me. I miss the version of her that I thought I knew. But my own growth has required me to take responsibility for myself and to let others take on their responsibilities. Sure, showing care and compassion , even empathy, is a good thing. And I value those things. I also need to be aware when I need to take care of myself. And it was those moments that seemed the most hurtful to her. I can't neglect myself to rescue her.

I see that now.

And I think I see a difference between a romantic relationship and a parental-child relationship. It's great that you've learned how to be present to your daughter. I'd want to learn how to be with mine too. I think it's too much for me to "choose" a romantic partner who relates the way my ex did. That's just not what I want in my life.

I'm doing better. My friends have been a great support. You all here have been amazing as well.

Thank you

[seekingtheway]

Hi there,

Thank you for sharing your story with us.

I can understand why you'd feel the need to re-visit past conversations and dynamics to understand what happened. I think the brain goes into rumination to find safety - to figure out how we could have stopped it from happening, how we might be able to stop it from happening again should the same thing happen in the future... but I think from the examples you gave, the same or similar result would have happened regardless of how you handled it, because she's reacting to emotions/insecurities/overwhelm that live within her. Yes, external things can trigger those feelings, but if it wasn't those specific things, it would have been something else. It's impossible to avoid the triggers. So much of it is perceived as well, so it's hard to have the strength to validate if yo'ure being accused of something that you know didn't actually happen.

I went through a similar process after breaking up with my ex, and did a very thorough post-mortem on everything that happened. And I could definitely pick at myself for not having reacted perfectly at times, and I do understand how I could have done some things better... but I did not hold him to perfect standards, and I should not be held or hold myself to those standards either... and the same applies for you here. We are all human, trying our best, and you were still there, still trying, still committed... but unfortunately for you, she just couldn't stay the course.

I know when my ex cut and run (which he did many times), he was always in a massive state of dysregulation, and I know it was extremely overwhelming for him. I saw him trying to fight it internally and it looked so painfaul for him, but he had a massive fear of engulment as well as abandonment, and he would get overwhelmed from periods of closeness as well as periods of separation/rejection, or perceived separation. It was a tightrope that I had almost no chance of being able to successfully walk on. I was always either too close or too far away. He would become distant, cold, sabotage things and push me away once I got too close or become clingy/controlling/angry/manipulative when he felt I was too far away. Several of our breakups came after periods of real closeness, or if we had taken steps forwards in the relationship, which was extremely jarring and confusing for me to then try and process.

There are always lessons to learn, but those lessons don't always lie in how to be a perfect, always-regulated partner. They can also lie in you understanding what you need, what works for you and what doesn't. And also, how long we're willing to tolerate a relationship that isn't truly meeting our needs.

[Pook075]

And I think I see a difference between a romantic relationship and a parental-child relationship. It's great that you've learned how to be present to your daughter. I'd want to learn how to be with mine too. I think it's too much for me to "choose" a romantic partner who relates the way my ex did. That's just not what I want in my life.

The relationships were very different, of course, but the emotional thinking was exactly the same.  When they're dysregulated, both are like children either hiding their feelings out of fear or lashing out in anger.  And the closer they are to someone, the worse it becomes.

It sounds like you're on the right path and actually healing from this experience, which is great to hear.  Go easy on yourself and remember grace...you couldn't know what you didn't know.  There will be bad days ahead as your mind finds a new instance to inspect, but those instances do fade over time as you gain additional understanding.

Eventually, you'll see where we started with all this- she's sick, it's not your fault, and only she can help herself.

Please keep posting and talking this out, and let us know if there's anything you need.

[Without4clue]

There are always lessons to learn, but those lessons don't always lie in how to be a perfect, always-regulated partner. They can also lie in you understanding what you need, what works for you and what doesn't. And also, how long we're willing to tolerate a relationship that isn't truly meeting our needs.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I think that's what I'm trying to do. I want to be me 100% authentic self, but in my desire to rescue in the past and in this relationship, I have a tendency to put parts of myself away--to suppress my feelings when my partner expresses their pain. This time I refused to do that. I'm proud of myself for that. But these past two months have been so painful that I think you're right, there's part of me that wants to protect myself from never going through anything like that again. Sounds silly to say out loud, I know I can't control the future.

Most of the time I think that I did a good job of being true to myself and caring for her. And I understand now that the pain she felt in those most difficult moments had little to nothing to do with me. I actually felt that way in the moment. I didn't try to shake her or anything, I just refused to take responsibility for a problem she created. But it didn't feel like a big deal to me. It just felt like something that happened: she tried to help me with something I didn't ask for and I didn't receive the help in the way she wanted me to. That seemed like a small thing to me. Now I see it was more than that to her.

I knew she had mental health issues: depression, anxiety, and some difficulty with nightmares. Most of the time, it seemed like those issues were well regulated with meds and therapy. But work seemed to take a toll. I treated her like an adult. I listened to her problems and sometimes offered ideas about boundary setting at work.

At one point, she was diagnosed with OCD. I didn't inquire much into what that meant for us. Again, I thought it was something she was dealing with and that I'd meet her where she was in relationship to me. I didn't assume that meant I'd need to treat her any differently.

I had no idea about BPD. Now I'm learning there are some strong correlations between the two disorders. I feel like if I knew how much pain she was in, then I would've had a harder time setting boundaries for myself. I think I would've felt obligated to rescue even more. So I'm kinda glad I didn't know.

It's likely that I would've suppressed my emotions more, grown angry at her, and she would've felt hurt by me in that scenario too. And then I would've felt even more upset because in my codependent helping I would've felt that she "owed" me something. I would've been playing the martyr too and this whole thing would've been even messier.

So you're right. There was nothing I would've done to save our relationship. We had some really good times and a few bad times. I think I'll learn to trust myself again. I'm already seeing that I did okay. And I didn't lose myself. In some ways I grew. I had never known what it was like to be fully myself until this relationship. That's the strange part of this for me. I thought this was soooo good. And that's the part that can feel confusing.

I used to ask so many questions of people I dated: conflicts style, family history, dating history, etc... and I used to be super interested in personality tests and assessments. With her, I just wanted to be. And I was. It was great.

The temptation now is to scrutinize everyone and everything to guarantee a safe landing. But I don't want to be an investigator, therapist, or mentor. I want to be a partner. And I want to trust myself and the other person to reveal what needs to be revealed at the appropriate time. At the same time, I don't want to be naive. I probably should assess the situation with the wisdom I've gained through the years.

That feels like the journey I'm on.

[Pook075]

The temptation now is to scrutinize everyone and everything to guarantee a safe landing. But I don't want to be an investigator, therapist, or mentor. I want to be a partner. And I want to trust myself and the other person to reveal what needs to be revealed at the appropriate time. At the same time, I don't want to be naive. I probably should assess the situation with the wisdom I've gained through the years.

That feels like the journey I'm on.

First off, that's all really great stuff...I'm glad you're taking the time to really know yourself and keep the focus on you (not her).  That's the path towards healing and coming out of this a better person.

And don't worry, I did the exact same thing in micro-analyzing every relationship since my break-up.  I did end up remarrying and at times, I've wondered if my current wife has BPD.  But I think we see all of those traits in every relationship.  Women are more emotional than men so of course there's moments where she is more emotional.  But you know what?  Because of my journey, I can truly meet her where she's at and lead with compassion to ensure that we get through those moments quickly.

In other words, my relationship with my perfectly normal, sometimes moody current wife is WAAAY better because of my past.  I am thankful for what I've learned because it ultimately has made me a more loving, compassionate person.  And the things I've learned here have spilled into my relationships at work, with family, etc.  The stuff you learn here will genuinely make you a better person.

You're doing everything right and you're on the correct path.  Just keep doing what you're doing and talk it all out when needed.  We'll gladly listen and give any advice we can.

[Without4clue]

Your response hit me right in the center of my heart. I want all of this to be worth it. I want to know I didn't waste three years of my life. And I don't really think I did. From my perspective, I had a blast for 95% of my relationship. That's what made the ghosting so painful. It's made me question everything.

So the idea that I could be better BECAUSE of this... phew... that hits hard. Thank you for sharing your experience. And I'm glad for your story. Sounds like your partner is too!

I'm gonna hold onto this idea

[Without4clue]

Does there come a point when you stopped obsessing about the person who ghosted you? Wondering what they are thinking? If they hate you? If they're ok? If... if... if...?

[Pook075]

Your response hit me right in the center of my heart. I want all of this to be worth it. I want to know I didn't waste three years of my life. And I don't really think I did. From my perspective, I had a blast for 95% of my relationship. That's what made the ghosting so painful. It's made me question everything.

So the idea that I could be better BECAUSE of this... phew... that hits hard. Thank you for sharing your experience. And I'm glad for your story. Sounds like your partner is too!

I'm gonna hold onto this idea

Maybe six months ago, I was talking to my adult daughter (not the one with BPD, I have two daughters in their 20's).  When my ex and I first split up, my daughter was distant to me and threw a lot of judgement my way because she was caught up in her mom's disordered thinking.  She refused to accept that her mom could lie to her or try to manipulate her.  But eventually, she saw the truth because the same thing was happening to her.

One day, she asked me, "Do you regret staying married to mom for 23 years?"

Simple question, but it really hit me hard.  How do I even start to answer that?  We split up in year one, not too long after my first daughter was born.  And I thought, if I didn't take her back, the kid I'm talking to on the phone right now never would have been conceived (she came a year later).  So no, I don't regret that at all.

And would I want those two girls to grow up in a single parent household, or bounce back and forth between parents?  Absolutely not.  Our house was chaos at times with a BPD wife and a BPD daughter, but I don't regret the life experiences we gained together.  All the vacations, all the memories...to me the good far outweighed the bad. 

And maybe that's through a jaded lens, maybe I was too codependent and settling for a less than ideal relationship.  But my kids turned out okay and I'm in a really good place in life now.

So no, i don't think I wasted 23 years.  Life wasn't perfect, but when is life ever perfect for anyone?  I learned and grew as a result of my experiences.  And everyone has that choice...we can be a victim of our past or we can be our own champion of our present.

Like you, it took me a pretty long time to heal once my eyes were truly opened.  I really do feel for you because I understand where you're at.  But it's not a season you'll stay in, you will gain understanding and knowledge of your mistakes.  I can tell just by how you write and express yourself, you're already growing because of this.  You're fighting like mad to find the good in it all and learn from it.

Ruminating about the past is perfectly normal, and it will last for some time.  Just make sure you stick to the facts about the situation- this is not your fault, you couldn't fix this, you couldn't fix her.  You did the best you could with what you had available, and thankfully you picked up some fond memories along the way.

[SinisterComplex]

Does there come a point when you stopped obsessing about the person who ghosted you? Wondering what they are thinking? If they hate you? If they're ok? If... if... if...?

Yes. However, I should also say everyone will be different here and there is no one size fits all. We all have different personalities. Basically for me once my BS  quota gets filled I move on and don't look back. I'm not curious or anything. It's like you had your chance, but you chose to hurt me, lie to me, etc. Life is too precious to waste on those who would rather bring me down and not enhance my life and make it better.

As for wondering if someone hates me...this is the easiest one for me in particular to answer...I could care less about something so petty. Odds are if you hate me it is mostly a YOU problem and I probably don't care much for you either. I don't wish ill will upon them, but I also am indifferent towards them. Wasting time on something as trivial as wondering why someone hates you prevents you from having more mental real estate to do bigger and better things.

I choose not to waste time on things of that nature because a lot of that is out of your control. Focus on YOU and what you can control and build better relationships with those who do truly care about you and want to enhance your life.

Make sense?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Pook075]

Does there come a point when you stopped obsessing about the person who ghosted you? Wondering what they are thinking? If they hate you? If they're ok? If... if... if...?

For me, the healthy way to think about it (which I didn't figure out for many, many months) was that my ex was mentally ill, I did the best i could, she refused to get help, and she has to live her life on her own terms.

In other words, it ultimately wasn't on me, it wasn't my fault.

Yet the thoughts persisted and I continued to hurt.  If I only did this, if I had tried that, over and over again playing out scenarios that could have led to a different outcome.  But each time, I'd reach the same conclusion...she's still mentally ill, she still won't get help, and that has nothing at all to do with me.

I felt like a victim for quite some time, and in that mindset it kept me chained to the past.  Ultimately, I had to do exactly what Sinister just said, I had to let it all go and accept that it was outside my control.  If she hated me, then so be it...I know who I am and what I did for her.  There's no reason to seek her validation any longer.

Today, I am on good speaking terms with my ex.  But that only happened because I was able to separate who I was with what happened...those are two different things and the failed relationship couldn't define me.  I had to completely let go of those fantasies, that disordered thinking that ruined the relationship. 

Because that's ultimately what happens, we're so hurt and confused that we try to process things like a BPD would to make sense of it all.  Nothing good will ever come from that.

[Without4clue]

You're all right, of course. Some days I feel angry or maybe indifferent about her and what she feels towards me. Then there are other days when feelings of sadness or anxious energy just sneak up on me. I'm not trying to think these things or feel them. It's just there. It's like my nervous system is on edge.

I think it'll take time and reorienting myself to relationships and spaces that are positive and affirming.

Financially and practically, there's no more ties between us. So I really can move on without any need to interact with her. I have the house we bought which means I have to deal with ghosts that remind me of our relationship.

What's been helpful recently is that I've been practicing telling myself full stories of our relationship, not just how I felt about the good times, but the actual content of our relationship--what I wanted and what I actually experienced.

Truth is, our entire relationship revolved around her victimization by those outside of it. I don't believe now that those people were anywhere as bad as she claimed they were. No matter where she went or who she interacted with, everyone became unbelievably horrible to her, except for me. But my time was coming!

What this did was make me feel like I needed to protect her to be angry on her behalf and to care for her. We rarely discussed my life, my work and such. We did that more early in the relationship. But in the last few months the few hours we spent throughout the day were filled with stories of the chaotic situation at work, or long trips to the hospital where no one could find anything wrong with her. And it began to wear on me.

It was like I could see a pattern. Everyone in the world couldn't hate her this much or be out to get her. The stories she told were fantastical. And she was always the victim. When I started to point out that other people seem to be figuring out these situations she seemed bothered that I was "blaming" her. And I suppose I was. I thought I was trying to remind her that she can set limits. But her pattern involved over extending herself by volunteering to do more than necessary, always.

Anyway, I wasn't happy. I felt alone and unsupported. The good times were actually few and far between. We'd go on trips or maybe plan for our garden. But generally we'd sit around and watch tv. I'd cook or work and she'd complain about her enemies. That was it.

It wasn't a great relationship. But I was helping and rescuing. And that was familiar to me. I was her hero and that felt good. But we weren't equal partners. There was an emptiness to the relationship. And that's the truth I need to remind myself of when I feel like I miss her or wonder about her. I don't think I really knew her. And I don't think she really knew me.

[Pook075]

It was like I could see a pattern. Everyone in the world couldn't hate her this much or be out to get her. The stories she told were fantastical. And she was always the victim. When I started to point out that other people seem to be figuring out these situations she seemed bothered that I was "blaming" her. And I suppose I was. I thought I was trying to remind her that she can set limits. But her pattern involved over extending herself by volunteering to do more than necessary, always.

I think everyone reaches that point, where they reflect back and wonder if the exs, the parents and relatives, the friends from school, etc were all pure evil...or were they just painted that way by disordered thinking?

I very briefly dated a gal before my BPD wife- it was maybe 6-8 weeks total and she broke up with me for going on a weekend vacation with friends (that she told me to go to).  It was Mardi Gras and I drove through the night to meet a few childhood friends- we had a freakin blast too!  I was maybe 23ish and it was one of the most memorable trips of my life.

Anyway, I got back and she dumped me...and likely cheated on me the weekend I was gone.

I remember she had told me about a few ex's and how abusive they were, but it didn't click right away until someone in college told me that she was telling everyone how abusive I was as well.  And it shocked me, I treated her like gold and we had so much fun together.

Fast forward about 8 years and I stop in a gas station.  The guy she left me for worked there and I didn't know what to do; I knew she made up all kinds of stuff about me.  I couldn't help it though, I asked him about her, and he started laughing saying that he thought he recognized me.  He asked why I hadn't joined the "<her name> victims" Facebook group yet, there was literally like 60 members who had been dumped, painted black, and lied about.  They all actually became friends and shared horror stories.

My BPD ex wife and my BPD daughter are both very guilty of that as well, stretching the truth or flat out making things up about others so it fits their narrative.  I think it's just how they justify things when they're in a disordered state.

[Without4clue]

I have, at times, wondered about reaching out to her ex-wife and other acquaintances she painted to be pariahs. But I don't really want to rehash all the pain of this again. And I assume that they don't really want to either, and likely not with me.

So will leave them alone. BUT, it would be potentially validating to share stories of what we noticed about her. I think that if we were all in a good enough place it could be healing. But nah