BPD and breakup

[Blake3]

Hello everyone,

English isn't my first language, so I apologize for any grammar/writing errors.

I met my now Ex girlfriend around november 2023, through a mutual friend. At the time she was living in a different country going through a breakup, her partner left her after she became pregnant, telling her to do an abortion because he saw the child as a "mistake". From what she told me she was frequently abused in that relationship, and raped. She had no choice but to do the abortion in the end. She was talking to me on and off during this period, she would get drunk a few times. I tried to listen and support her and she was grateful. When she was down and cried I was there for her. There was a 3 month period when she didn't respond at all, told me it was because of the depression and she didn't wanted to talk much. But around august she messaged me, that she will be coming back to our home country for a week next month and wants to see me. I should also mention she apparently overdosed antidepressants during vacation period. She did self harm in the past aswell, before I met her.

We met once, she liked me and I liked her. She was wondering why would I care about her, everyone else was indifferent. After she went back we kept in touch, more than previously. After a month and a half of voice calls, playing games together, we became a couple. First month was great, though from the very beginning she was scared of love or relationship in general, as she said herself "I'm afraid to try". The relationship went forward pretty fast, I was wanted to take things slow, cause I wasn't used to saying "I love you" to anyone. I think it made her little upset but she accepted it, after few weeks I was pretty invested in it and this wasn't a problem.

She was planning on coming to our home country around february (this year). Before that, there were times where she got upset at (at least to me) little things, like me not replying fast enough, she was asking me "what if we're not compatible?", there was a day she even questioned coming back, most likely because of her parents and family issues. Quite a few times she stated that "I hate men" but I was an exception. During this time, she was working, and after work we sat and talked/played together pretty much daily. She set up whatsapp notifications on her smartwatch, to see my msgs as fast as possible. Whenever she had a break at work, and I didn't write to her back during this time, she was sad. I never reacted harshly to her actions, I always try to keep my mind grounded and calm and understand someone else's POV. She told me few times that I'm the most patient, caring and understanding person she ever met. Also, how she doesn't deserve me, that she was told she's toxic, "How do you tolerate me being so emotional and dramatic?". She was afraid I was going to leave her one day, cause people always left her. Of course, I loved her and the way she was, and I never had any intention to leave her, I'm generally very resilient and tolerate pretty much any behaviour, so I was certain, but I doubt she believed me.

Once she came back to our home country (in february), we met right away. When we were holding hands, I noticed she was shaking, and for sure it wasn't because of cold. I don't remember how she explained it, but probably she was anxious around me. 3 days before valentines, I drove to pick her up from the weeding her father had his new partner had (I should point out her biological mother and father divorced during her childhood). She was moderately drunk, told me to take her somewhere we could sit. We arrived, and after few minutes she sat on my lap. At one point I thought she wanted me to kiss her, so I did. But it backfired, she got off me and told me I stole a kiss, it wasn't appropriate moment, and she wanted to do it on valentines. After I drove her back home, she pretty upset about me kissing her like that. Said she wants to be alone for a bit, but we were talking anyway. Fast forward few weeks, I told her i'm going to hang out with friends for 2 hours, we went to restaurant, I decided to focus my attention on them for these two hours. Halfway through I checked my phone and I noticed she was getting upset I don't write back to her, she send a photo but deleted the msg after few minutes, because I didn't reply fast enough. After I came back she was very upset and angry, told me if it was her she would always msg me back even if she was hanging out with friends, that she always would find time for me to write back. One day I went to meet her family. When I was there there was a bottle of wine she wanted to open and drink, I was giving her looks because I'm very against smoking or drinking (she knew that), and I even told her silently "please don't". Now I know this isn't how I supposed to handle it, and ultimately it's her decision what she does, I'm not a perfect man, and I make mistakes, I didn't wanted her to intoxicate herself cause I believe thats not very healthy, but it made me look controlling, and her father didn't like that. Because I didn't side with her she was upset again, and was scared of her father, who had abused her when she was a child. She was also molested by a member of her family during childhood. She didn't want me to look at her too much, or touch her on the stomach.

Overall, there was quite a bit of issues. I trimmed my beard one day, when she saw it she was pissed, combination of sad/angry, because prior she told me not to do anything with it, and "I didn't listen" to her. When I didn't hear something she said, and she had to repeat herself, she got angry. When I didn't had energy to meet with her after a day of work, she was upset. When I played with a friend for 1 - 2 hours, she was angry and upset "I'm gonna go play alone, go and continue playing with your friend". She really wanted to have a kid with me, I told her I'm not ready financially for it. She said if we don't do it now she won't want child later, because pregnancy will be harder for her. I could tell she wanted to have sex, unprotected sex especially. When I told her it's not the good time, she said she would be a bad mother anyway and deep down knows she doesn't really want a child. Of course, inbetween those moments she was loving and caring, telling me "You're stuck with me forever" "You're mine" etc. We slept together, cuddled, she really craved physical contact.

2 weeks before breakup, she was telling me she wants a break for some time. She herself noticed shes more irritable, upset at things, lots of issues with controlling family, she wasn't really happy here etc. was scared she will say something that would hurt me. But I told her it's fine and we can manage through it. (Big mistake for not letting her have that break)

April 4th, she invites me to her home (not the first time I'm there), when I was around she was more focused on studying, she always had trouble concentrating on things like that. But, me being me, I look at her a lot, and she did say she didn't like that and it's pushing her away when I do it. She said few times that she feels pressure when I stare at her. Why I looked at her so much? Because she was the most beautiful person, and I loved her. She did mention she has her trauma's. I did do it less, over time, but It didn't help. It was too late and she blew up, "Two months and you're still doing it, why didn't you listen". Like I said, I'm not perfect. Two days later she said "I love you too, but you make me anxious now, I noticed my hands started shaking around you."

April 7th, she broke up, saying "Relationships are not for me, I don't want to be in this." "I don't feel anything anymore" (Probably love). I tried to talk her out of it but she was telling me to "Stop it" "Can I leave this relationship or not?" "Can I have my break and space?". Same night at 1am I wrote her goodnight as usual. She said goodnight, I also asked if shes sure about everything, she said "I want break... zero communication" "I hoped you will respect that"

April 9th, wrote to me at 2am "I'm avoiding contact with everyone", and that she couldn't sleep. Then in the morning asks me if I'm okay. I told her I think about her and that shes the best woman a man can have. Said she doesn't think so, and blew up cause she asked me not to talk about that some time prior.

April 10th, before breakup she asked me if I take her to the dentist, I asked if she still wanted me to, she said yes, but wanted me to not pay attention to her during the drive. next day we still continued contact in some form. Eventually I mentioned something she didn't like and blew up again, that she wants to be alone, with her depression and thoughts. She wants to be invisible to the world, that I don't give her the space she ask for. Days later she asked me to go out to the shop, but by the bus not by my car. Probably wanted to be less depended on me. Afterwards I wrote too much and she got angry again, saying she felt bad for me so she asked me out, but now regrets it and won't do it again, she thought it will be different but I don't listen at all and she has enough of ineffective communication, that I'm good but I don't understand her.

April 15th removes me off all gaming platforms and facebook (we never talked there or shared photos by the way, purerly simbolic)

April 21th we texted again, it went downhill fast, she told me that me looking at her was obsession and not love. Because If you love someone you don't do something that makes the other person uncomfortable, if you love you listen.

April 23th Asked me to remove all her photos of my phone, I comply. (nothing more that day)

April 30th Silently removes me off discord and spotify, I told her to think about it (big mistake again), and also I wished her good luck on her exams. She replied "I don't want you to wish me luck, I would like you to stop looking at what I'm doing, so I had to remove you off discord and spotify. Can we not talk? bye."

May 12th Removes our mutual friend off all platforms (just him). I think she did it because he was one of my best friends and when looking at his profile it reminded her of me in some way.

Shes not a bad person, but she did consider herself one. Whenever I told her otherwise she would say "Stop it, I'm not good, I'm toxic. There are better women than me. You deserve better." If anything, shes a deeply troubled and unstable emotionally. As for me, I'm not a saint, I made mistakes, but I was always willing to fix them even the little ones.

I'm 90% sure she doesn't have any replacement, besides her female friend she found few days after breakup. And that is mainly who she hangs around with now.

Does she has BPD? I'm not sure, my psychologist told me she sees patterns but she can't diagnose without talking to them first, but she's 100% sure there is some form of instability. If she truly didn't care, she wouldn't ask me to remove the photos for example.

I really do care about her, I know it might be hard for me, and that I should probably move on like some people have told me. But I don't want to give up, that's my decision.
My question is, how final is it? Does she really have BPD?

Either way, just wanted to vent here, and see what other people think. Apologies if the post is a huge wall of text and hard to read.

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[kells76]

Hello Blake3 and

You've been through a lot in your relationship in a relatively short period of time -- it sounds like it was emotionally intense right from the start, and stayed fairly emotionally intense the whole time. That's a lot to process.

Looking at your last questions first:

Does she has BPD? I'm not sure, my psychologist told me she sees patterns but she can't diagnose without talking to them first, but she's 100% sure there is some form of instability. If she truly didn't care, she wouldn't ask me to remove the photos for example.

I really do care about her, I know it might be hard for me, and that I should probably move on like some people have told me. But I don't want to give up, that's my decision.
My question is, how final is it? Does she really have BPD?

What your psychologist said makes sense. Professionals don't diagnose persons they haven't met and aren't treating, and it's the same for us here at bpdfamily.com -- we can't say for sure whether your exGF does or doesn't have BPD.

In a way, though, whether she does or doesn't have BPD, matters less than the fact that there was a dynamic in your relationship that wasn't working and that was harming the relationship. Without blaming one partner or the other, it was more about what was happening between you two.

BPD traits and behaviors can make relationships more challenging, though not impossible to have. And, BPD is a spectrum disorder -- ranging from occasional, less impactful emotional dysregulation, through unlivable behaviors such as violence.

Something important to know about BPD is that pwBPD (persons with BPD) frequently struggle with all three of the following:

-high emotional sensitivity (something that wouldn't really bother a person without BPD, can be very painful to a pwBPD)
-high emotional reactivity (a person without BPD might respond to an emotionally painful situation at a 5/10 level -- being upset, wanting to talk about it, raised voice -- but a pwBPD might react to an emotionally painful situation at a 10/10 level -- screaming, suicide threats, breakups, violence)
-long return to emotional baseline (a person without BPD might only need 30 minutes to re-regulate after an argument; a pwBPD might need hours, days, or weeks to return to an emotional baseline and regulate)

Any person, with or without BPD, can have any of those traits. For example, I'm pretty emotionally sensitive, and I have a long return to emotional baseline, but I'm generally not externally emotionally reactive. It's more that if BPD is in play, it's very likely that your loved one will struggle with all three tendencies -- and that is really important information for you to have, especially if you are negotiating a breakup situation.

...

In terms of how "final" this is, it's hard to say.

My first thought is that she may feel repeatedly hurt and unheard by you, and may feel that the only way to make the pain stop is distance. That is to say -- breaking up just to break up, or to pursue a new partner, may not be her primary motivation. It could be that stopping the pain is her primary motivation, and if there were some way for her to experience you as non-pain-causing, there would be potential to reconnect.

What will be important is understanding that BPD is not the sole cause of issues in BPD relationships... it's a dynamic between two persons, and our responses as nons can make things worse in the relationship, too.

In order to make things better, we have to stop -- on our end -- making things worse (even though so many things the non partner does are out of love, good intentions, and trying to be helpful).

I think I read that she expressed feeling not heard by you, that you didn't listen. I do see where that was happening:

Overall, there was quite a bit of issues. I trimmed my beard one day, when she saw it she was pissed, combination of sad/angry, because prior she told me not to do anything with it, and "I didn't listen" to her. When I didn't hear something she said, and she had to repeat herself, she got angry.

...

2 weeks before breakup, she was telling me she wants a break for some time. She herself noticed shes more irritable, upset at things, lots of issues with controlling family, she wasn't really happy here etc. was scared she will say something that would hurt me. But I told her it's fine and we can manage through it. (Big mistake for not letting her have that break)

...

April 7th, she broke up, saying "Relationships are not for me, I don't want to be in this." "I don't feel anything anymore" (Probably love). I tried to talk her out of it but she was telling me to "Stop it" "Can I leave this relationship or not?" "Can I have my break and space?". Same night at 1am I wrote her goodnight as usual. She said goodnight, I also asked if shes sure about everything, she said "I want break... zero communication" "I hoped you will respect that"

April 9th, wrote to me at 2am "I'm avoiding contact with everyone", and that she couldn't sleep. Then in the morning asks me if I'm okay. I told her I think about her and that shes the best woman a man can have. Said she doesn't think so, and blew up cause she asked me not to talk about that some time prior.

April 10th, before breakup she asked me if I take her to the dentist, I asked if she still wanted me to, she said yes, but wanted me to not pay attention to her during the drive. next day we still continued contact in some form. Eventually I mentioned something she didn't like and blew up again, that she wants to be alone, with her depression and thoughts. She wants to be invisible to the world, that I don't give her the space she ask for. Days later she asked me to go out to the shop, but by the bus not by my car. Probably wanted to be less depended on me. Afterwards I wrote too much and she got angry again, saying she felt bad for me so she asked me out, but now regrets it and won't do it again, she thought it will be different but I don't listen at all and she has enough of ineffective communication, that I'm good but I don't understand her.
...

April 30th Silently removes me off discord and spotify, I told her to think about it (big mistake again), and also I wished her good luck on her exams. She replied "I don't want you to wish me luck, I would like you to stop looking at what I'm doing, so I had to remove you off discord and spotify. Can we not talk? bye."

May 12th Removes our mutual friend off all platforms (just him). I think she did it because he was one of my best friends and when looking at his profile it reminded her of me in some way.

Shes not a bad person, but she did consider herself one. Whenever I told her otherwise she would say "Stop it, I'm not good, I'm toxic. There are better women than me. You deserve better." If anything, shes a deeply troubled and unstable emotionally. As for me, I'm not a saint, I made mistakes, but I was always willing to fix them even the little ones.

It must have been so difficult and painful for you to hear the person you loved describe herself as toxic, not as good as other women, and not the best woman for you. I can really feel how much you wanted her to know that you didn't experience her that way, that you thought she was beautiful, attractive, and a wonderful person.

One of the unintuitive things about relating to highly emotionally sensitive persons is that we think we're being validating ("Babe, you're not toxic, you're so beautiful and worthy") but we're actually being deeply invalidating, and unfortunately communicating that we don't listen or hear them -- exactly the complaint.

A big piece of the dynamic between you two was that she would express something negative or emotionally heavy -- she feels like a toxic person, she needs a break, etc -- and out of your best intentions, she was invalidated by your response.

I'm curious if you can see that, too. In a way, she's been really clear about what wasn't working for her: she felt unheard. We accidentally don't hear our loved one when we try to encourage them out of their feelings. The issue with negative feelings isn't that she needs an explanation of why she's wrong! She needs a partner who can be present with her and just listen when she feels that way, without a "yeah, I hear you, but...". That takes some ego and anxiety management on your part -- being able to manage your own feelings when you hear that she feels like a toxic person. Practicing real validation with examples may be important, and that's something this board is really helpful with.

So, using a real life example here:

Shes not a bad person, but she did consider herself one. Whenever I told her otherwise she would say "Stop it, I'm not good, I'm toxic. There are better women than me. You deserve better." If anything, shes a deeply troubled and unstable emotionally. As for me, I'm not a saint, I made mistakes, but I was always willing to fix them even the little ones.

Sounds like in the past, it went like this:

Her: "I feel like a really bad person. I feel like I'm toxic"
You: "Babe, no, that's not true, you're an amazing person, I love you so much"
Her: "See? You don't really listen to me. Forget it."

And she would be right -- she wanted to be heard emotionally and didn't get that.

It's understandable -- it's not intuitive. And, I can really imagine how much you wanted her to know how precious she was to you. It would be hard for you to hear her describe herself so negatively.

There is an alternative, that is emotionally validating:

Her: "I feel like a really bad person. I feel like I'm toxic"
You: "Oh wow... that would be painful to feel that way"
Her: "Yeah, it is, and nobody gets it"
You: "That would be doubly painful, to not be understood. Ouch"

(those are just example responses, not an exact script to use).

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on emotional validation?

...

One last question (sorry this is long!)

What happened here:

April 10th, before breakup she asked me if I take her to the dentist, I asked if she still wanted me to, she said yes, but wanted me to not pay attention to her during the drive. next day we still continued contact in some form. Eventually I mentioned something she didn't like and blew up again, that she wants to be alone, with her depression and thoughts. She wants to be invisible to the world, that I don't give her the space she ask for. Days later she asked me to go out to the shop, but by the bus not by my car. Probably wanted to be less depended on me. Afterwards I wrote too much and she got angry again, saying she felt bad for me so she asked me out, but now regrets it and won't do it again, she thought it will be different but I don't listen at all and she has enough of ineffective communication, that I'm good but I don't understand her.

What was the thing you mentioned, that she didn't like?

[Blake3]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on emotional validation?

I agree with what you wrote, my way of handling things wasn't always good, especially at the end. I did try to validate her emotions, where she was talking about family issues for example. Though, I need to correct something I wrote. In the past, before she broke up, everytime she something bad about herself, I reassured that she's the best person I've met, she liked it, cause not many people told her anything like that in her life I imagine, and usually said something along the lines of "You're a dork, I love you". But, after the breakup (April 7th), or rather the day I "broke something inside of her" by me looking at her so much, which was around 4 days before the breakup. She didn't wanted to hear that she's a good person, or that she's amazing. She was, in my opinion, angry and upset at me for not respecting the boundaries, for example: "Don't look at me that much, it's pushing me away and I feel pressure". And <maybe> feeling guilty, she felt like she was hurting me a lot by her words when she was angry, and maybe that's why, when her emotions reached all time high, she thought she's the worst person, and me reassuring her didn't work, cause she truly believed otherwise.

What was the thing you mentioned, that she didn't like?

Pretty much same thing I wrote above, after the breakup, we still had contact, less but it was there, which I described starting from april 4th. And during that time, whenever I  tired to say something good about her, she either said "I'm not" "I don't want to hear that" "I'm not that good, I'm not the person you're telling me I am. You don't even know how mean I can be to others." "I'm can be really toxic" To add to that, she was also very angry for me texting her at all, and that was (In my opinion) the biggest trigger of her getting really mad at me. After i texted her too much (it happened few times after the breakup), she said "I need my space and time, you're not giving me what I ask for, you're not listening, it's always the same." "Please, leave me alone I want to be with myself, I don't want to exist.", so these were the things that really made her mad after breakup.

Before the breakup, maybe it started a month before, whenever I didn't hear what she said, either by external factors like noise or my poor hearing, and me asking her to repeat, she would get irritated or worst case just not repeat what she said. My memory isn't good, and whenever I forgot something she said she would get upset/irritated, again, probably related to me not listening. So in summary, she told me I'm not listening, because I was doing things she told me not to do, trimming my beard once, looking at her (Trauma from the past, as she told me), insisting on driving her home even when she didn't want to etc.

--

I think, partially the reason why she really wanted a break a week or two before the breakup, was cause she felt how angry she was on everything and everyone around her, she wanted to avoid hurting each other. I think she was just emotionally overwhelmed by everything in her life and by me not listening to her/understanding her. Maybe she couldn't handle all of the emotions, and me not really giving her the break she wanted, or me being a disappointment in her eyes. So, in the end she decided broke up.

My first thought is that she may feel repeatedly hurt and unheard by you, and may feel that the only way to make the pain stop is distance. That is to say -- breaking up just to break up, or to pursue a new partner, may not be her primary motivation. It could be that stopping the pain is her primary motivation, and if there were some way for her to experience you as non-pain-causing, there would be potential to reconnect.

That seems likely. To me, the way she's handling post breakup, is very confusing to say the least. From what I understand, she's trying to move on, or like you said, to stop the pain. Wants to remove all emotional triggers related to me, even mutual friend. She changed her profile picture after 1.5 years, she said she doesn't feel anything anymore, and yet two weeks later tells me to remove her photos off my personal phone. Then week later removes me off discord cause she doesn't want me to look what she's doing. And again around week later, she removes mutual friend everywhere. And most likely, she didn't block me anywhere, just removed me, but for me to check that I would have to msg her and that is a bad idea. Like I mentioned, she started to feel anxious around me, because I was looking at her TOO much (trauma probably), she wanted to find peace in me, but right now she can't.

Just to be clear, In my view, she didn't do or said anything wrong, most of the issues were easily fixable by me, but I didn't do enough.

Apologies for a long one again, and if I'm repeating myself too much. There might be things I missed, but I think I did wrote down all the important things. If something doesn't make sense, it's because I'm overall poor at explaining these events.