Feeling overwhelmed and tired...know the next downcycle is imminent

[Ravenous Reader]

I am so thankful for all the info here. I've been reading for hours and I'm starting to remember that I'm not alone and not "crazy" for wishing the relationship could be more stable and peaceful. Seeing a therapist every other week is helpful; I'm learning how to set and maintain boundaries. We attempted marriage counseling a couple of years ago & it led to us getting separate counselors. (Best thing EVER!) He won't return to his counselor and is undiagnosed/untreated. This past fall I was considering separation & "just happened across" the BPD info online and was absolutely stunned...our relationship's rockiness started to make sense! Looking back at our 25+ years together & finally having a lens to understand some of the insane arguments and "discussions" we've had for decades now...

I suppose today I am grieving what I thought "could be" an emotionally healthy relationship...I am choosing to be OK with him being unhappy and untreated (for now). So much reading and journaling and praying and forgiving and soul-searching! Anyway, this is new for me (I am not on Facebook, etc.); I'm hopeful it will be a light for me in dark times "when all other lights go out."

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[BonfireLit]

For sure! There is definitely something weirdly comforting in reading about shared experiences. Like how it is very exhausting when it's difficult to carve out time for yourself, because your partner sees it as betrayal/abandonment. I joined this forum because it's easier to do secretly - she starting splitting when I tried to attend a ZOOM support group meeting!

[cynp]

I relate to the OP's post. Right now I too am choosing to accept my partners illness and behavior. I know there is only so much I can do. I cannot choose happiness for another person. I cannot force another prson into treatment.

[Ravenous Reader]

Exactly! You reminded me of so many, many times when my partner has felt abandoned and rejected when I spend even a few moments talking on the phone to my mom or aunt.  Sometimes just him hearing a text notification will make him jealous, so sometimes I set it to silent or vibrate to avoid drama! The tricky part is never knowing WHEN things will set him off.

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family!  There are so many people here who can relate to your experiences and each of us here arrived the same way- wondering if we were crazy since nobody seems to understand what we're going through.  That's why this site is called BPD Family; we're all here to support each other and share wisdom.

For grieving what "could be", please don't give up hope quite yet.  I realize how challenging this is, but ultimately your relationship comes down to communication- how you communicate to him when he's feeling low self-worth or guilt, shame, rejection, etc.  Him getting help would be incredible but that's not the only path here, it actually starts with you validating what's valid in his life.  Our tools section above can help you with that.

What are some of your specific challenges right now?  And what books have you read so far on BPD?  Give us a little more insight so the community can provide some guidance.

[Ravenous Reader]

Thank you for welcoming me into "the family!" It is life-affirming, and at the perfect time. My counselor suggested I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," and I've re-visited parts of that text repeatedly to remind me of the very different way he interprets what seem like small things to me. For example, one of my friends stopped by our house after she and I had enjoyed a lovely day of used bookstore shopping (strike #1 against her). Hubby had worked that day & came home wanting to parboil ribs for supper & was boiling them in vinegar. Hubby invited my friend to "come in & stay awhile" (he wanted to be able to prove that he's not "jealous" of her because of some previous rages he'd had about my friendship with her), but the smell was quite strong & my friend commented, "No thank you," (while wrinkling her nose). He attacked her character as "RUDE" and un-called-for as soon as she left the house, and he was LIVID that I didn't want to participate in bashing her like he was doing. (I am glad he waited until she left instead of attacking her while she was still there.) That was YEARS AGO, yet anytime her name is mentioned, it's as if the whole incident happened TODAY & he again wants me to agree with/believe that she is "rude," etc. (when in actuality, she is one of the most inoffensive and kind people I've ever met). I tried to acknowledge (at the time) how I could see that he could feel offended by her remark and nose wrinkling & tried to help him feel "heard," but it wasn't enough. He wanted me to bash her WITH HIM, and I just couldn't do it! He felt so betrayed, as if I'd chosen "her side," when in my mind, there shouldn't have even been "sides" to take! (This was way prior to me knowing ANYTHING about BPD--I'm in my first year of knowledge now and SO thankful to have some explanation of incidents like "The Infamous Vinegar Affair," as I think of it privately in my own mind, etc.) The YEARS-long grudges are particularly difficult for me to handle--I mean, you're not perfect, either (but he doesn't truly ever admit he's not perfect--it's too painful to approach the idea that he might make mistakes or do anything in a way that's not less than absolutely logical and amazing) & we ALL need forgiveness and mercy, yet he refuses to give it to others. (Even before figuring out this BPD aspect, I would tell myself, "He can't give away to others what he won't give to himself," or something similar to help me reframe his refusal/inability to forgive people & to help me view him with more compassion.)

A few months ago, our sweet niece innocently hurt his feelings by asking when she could go home--more than once (I could tell it hurt his feelings because of my newfound knowledge, but the poor 10 y.o. did not have that insight); she had stayed the night with us & was ready to see her parents & brother again that next morning. He responded with absolute RAGE, completely bewildering the girl and yelling at her, "Get your stuff! You're going home NOW!" even going so far as to pull her arm away from the breakfast table & "guiding" (i.e. pushing) her toward the living room to start packing up. He was baffled that I didn't completely support him in his reaction toward her--telling me, "How will she learn and change her behavior and get better if we don't help her?" & repeating the "rude" refrain--that her behavior had been RUDE. I told him that his response was over-sized and even a bit frightening, but then the attack turned toward me for not supporting him in how he handled things. He was so hurt! And all I could think of was, "Waht about our niece???" How hurt is she at being pulled and pushed and yelled at for innocently expressing her desire to go home?" That was one of THE most awful experiences ever...because his rage was directed toward someone other than me. I've told myself "I can handle it" (and most of the time, I can)-- but it was so crazy-making before, during, and after. Since then, she has not expressed any desire to stay with us without her brother--or at all, really, and who can blame her? I was hopeful that the incident would prompt him to re-think his refusal to revisit his therapist, but he just dug in his heels & said when he talked to his brother (niece's dad) about it, supposedly his brother said it was "No big deal!" When I asked my brother-in-law about it, he said he told my husband, "It's no big deal; it's between you and her" (meaning it's between him and our niece). So sad. I was able to tell our sweet niece later when she asked me if I'm scared of him that yes, sometimes it is scary, but I'll be ok and I'm seeing a counselor/therapist who helps me handle the stress. He has loved our niece and nephews FIERCELY ever since their births, but now that they are older & have their own wants/opinions they don't mind voicing, I can see there will be additional strain in the relationships because husband will feel threatened/rejected by them just because they will be themselves (apart from him as their uncle).

Whew! It's just a lot to process and handle and manage. I have always focused on joy and looking for the good & I will continue to do so. For a while, I felt myself "shrinking" away from friends and family and hobbies to avoid the pushback from him (prior to BPD discovery); now I am remembering to put my own oxygen mask on first and I am resetting my boundaries & once again insisting that I can be a good wife AND a good daughter; a good wife AND a good friend; a good wife AND a good niece--I do NOT have to choose one or the other--I can be ALL these things & it'll be OK.

I'm teaching myself Spanish. (He seriously can be jealous of a 2-3 minute Spanish lesson--good grief! Other times he says he's proud of me for tackling a new language.) I've pulled my flute out of the closet and am practicing when he's not home. I'm doing my yoga and walking. And I'm chatting with you guys, my newfound support group. Things are looking up.

Thank you so very much for the incredible, life-improving (dare I say life-saving?) work you are accomplishing here! It is invaluable.

[Ravenous Reader]

One more thing: he's recently "self-diagnosed" with PHD--something he found online called "Perfectly Hidden Depression" and it's one of the reasons he was willing to speak with a therapist. He was talking with his therapist about depression and anger issues (not BPD).

 I've read many things that caution me to NOT share with him my thoughts about a BPD diagnosis, so I've kept it to myself.

[Pook075]

Hubby had worked that day & came home wanting to parboil ribs for supper & was boiling them in vinegar. Hubby invited my friend to "come in & stay awhile" (he wanted to be able to prove that he's not "jealous" of her because of some previous rages he'd had about my friendship with her), but the smell was quite strong & my friend commented, "No thank you," (while wrinkling her nose). He attacked her character as "RUDE" and un-called-for as soon as she left the house, and he was LIVID that I didn't want to participate in bashing her like he was doing. (I am glad he waited until she left instead of attacking her while she was still there.)

Here's where I sort of found a breakthrough in all of this.

Was your husband's reaction justified?  Nope.

Was his anger appropriate?  Nope

Was the friend trying to offend him?  Nope

We can go on and on here, this wasn't your friend's fault.

However, at the same time, your husband's feelings are real and to him, they're perfectly justified.  He was outraged and if we judge in that moment, then it's like saying that their feelings don't matter at all.  That's the part that hurts so much and he hangs onto.

Now, I get it...you weren't taking the friend's side.

But that's not how feelings work, especially for someone with BPD.  Whether it was real or imaginary, he needed someone to understand how he felt...and he still needs that years later.  In other words, it's not about right or wrong...valid or invalid.  This is 100% about him feeling rejected and needing someone to understand how frustrating that would FEEL.

Feelings and facts are two different things.  We shouldn't validate any of the invalid "facts".  But we always have to validate the feelings that come from those instances.

So what was he feeling?  Upset, hurt, and offended that his stinky ribs bothered someone enough to leave.  And he still holds onto that because he is still seeking validation for those feelings; it's not about what actually happened at all. 

I'm not trying to take his side here, mind you.  Instead, I'm trying to show why he reacted the way he did.  Disordered thinking got him there in the moment and it hurt his feelings.  To him personally, she was rude...which makes is 100% true since we're talking about his feelings.  He just wanted someone to say that it would stink to feel that way and they understand how frustrating that would be.

Again, facts don't equal feelings.  That's BPD in a nutshell.

[Ravenous Reader]

I am sure this might seem like overkill, but the gratitude I feel for y'all is overflowing!!! This site is such a place of refuge; such a RELIEF. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Pook, "his feelings are justified" does seem to be one of the (many!) areas where I need work/practice/mental flexibility. When I first read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," the sections that gave me the most pause were the ones where a person was able to VALIDATE feelings that made no logical sense whatsoever. It seems so warped to validate (to confirm or support) the "disordered thinking" that gets a pwBPD enraged; to me, it seems like nodding and agreeing, "Yep, that makes sense" when it absolutely does NOT make sense--it is the opposite of what makes sense! Way back on that particular day (vinegar day), I distinctly recall trying for a few moments, off and on, to "enter in" to his frustrations and to help him feel "heard" (my attempts at validating his reaction), and there were a very few moments where it "felt" safe in the midst of the storm. I am sure this IS one of the keys here, as you've said...I've got to find a way to help him feel accepted in the moment.

It seems so counterintuitive, though...as if I would be reinforcing this idea that the way you view people/the world/etc. is logical and "makes sense," when it seems so far from REALITY. Yes, it may be their "reality," and that's where I feel absolutely unmoored--I am to agree with disordered thinking? It makes me shrivel up inside trying to figure out how I will be able to fake it!

[Pook075]

I am sure this might seem like overkill, but the gratitude I feel for y'all is overflowing!!! This site is such a place of refuge; such a RELIEF. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Pook, "his feelings are justified" does seem to be one of the (many!) areas where I need work/practice/mental flexibility. When I first read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," the sections that gave me the most pause were the ones where a person was able to VALIDATE feelings that made no logical sense whatsoever. It seems so warped to validate (to confirm or support) the "disordered thinking" that gets a pwBPD enraged; to me, it seems like nodding and agreeing, "Yep, that makes sense" when it absolutely does NOT make sense--it is the opposite of what makes sense! Way back on that particular day (vinegar day), I distinctly recall trying for a few moments, off and on, to "enter in" to his frustrations and to help him feel "heard" (my attempts at validating his reaction), and there were a very few moments where it "felt" safe in the midst of the storm. I am sure this IS one of the keys here, as you've said...I've got to find a way to help him feel accepted in the moment.

It seems so counterintuitive, though...as if I would be reinforcing this idea that the way you view people/the world/etc. is logical and "makes sense," when it seems so far from REALITY. Yes, it may be their "reality," and that's where I feel absolutely unmoored--I am to agree with disordered thinking? It makes me shrivel up inside trying to figure out how I will be able to fake it!

No, I'm not asking you to fake it...because you can't spend the rest of your life living a lie.

Let's roleplay for a moment.

We're going to the mall and it's a great day- we're close friends and all is well.  We're talking laughing, and having a fine time.

As we pass the food court, we see an elderly person who's confused, yelling, and accusing everyone around him of something.  He says things like, "How did I get here?  Why did you kidnap me?  What have you done with my wife?"

A security guard approaches the old man and he becomes even more enraged.  "Don't touch me, I'm not going anywhere with you!  Get away from me!"  Then he swings his cane at the officer and almost falls down in the process.

Now, you and I might have different ideas on what's going on here.  After all, the old man says he's been kidnapped.  But the look on his face says he's just scared, confused, and in need of some help.

Yet look where his emotions are- he's showing anger and frustration.  In other words, his feelings aren't matching up with his words at all.

We saw the officer approach logically, and we saw how that played out.  Not good.  So how can we help this man?

Personally, I would approach him slowly and speak just above a whisper.  I'd show concern for him because that's what I'm genuinely feeling.  I'd tell him right up front that everything is okay, he's safe, and I'm there to make sure he gets home safely.  I'd ask if he wants to sit down or if we could get him something to eat.

I'd be kind, gentle, and patient, because that's what his emotions are telling me he needs.

Hopefully I'd win the old man over and he'd start to calm down.  Because that's the only goal here, make him feel safe and help him relax.  Maybe that would help his memory.  And in taking that approach, I might just gain his trust.  Because without his trust, I can't help him.

The same is true for your husband- maybe his words don't align with his emotions when he's struggling internally.  He doesn't have dementia like the old man, but it's very similar when it comes to emotions.  When things get hard, they can react badly.

Compassion is the key to all of this, but to get there you have to ignore the words completely.  Think about an infant crying...there are no words.  So how do you know what to do?  In essence, you don't.  But you calm the baby down and then start checking to see if he's hungry, needs to be changed, etc.  Because that's the main thing the baby needs- comfort.  Your husband is exactly the same.

I hope that helps!

[cynp]

I related so much to to the line "know the next downcycle is imminent." When my partner comes home and is grousing abt a bad day at work, i know that I'm going to get it before the day is over. it dosen't matter what I do or do not do. The bad day will be taken out on me through insults, yelling, criticism. I can feel it coming.

Thinking about what Pook075 wrote above. Like the OP it's very hard to seem like i am agreeing with something that is untrue, hurtful, and sometimes ridiclous. but I need to rmemeber I don't have to agree to validate their feelings.   

[Ravenous Reader]

Strangely enough, just recently I was wondering about different kinds of mental issues that might cause people to disassociate from reality (it kind of helps me understand BPD reactions with a little more compassion & gentleness instead of incredulity), and I thought about people who have dementia! So your example of the elderly gentleman makes sense; logic is not gonna win the day there, and when my husband is in pain (much of the time), logic won't lead to a desired outcome. I may WISH it would, but it's just not likely to lead anywhere helpful.

I am not exactly sure where I found the video link on this extremely extensive treasure trove of a website...but I just watched this and took notes and seriously LAUGHED aloud & it was amazing. It's titled "Understanding Validation in Families" by Alan E. Fruzzetti.

Here are some thoughts on the material (& a few direct quotes):

*He makes a distinction between "validation" and a "validating response," and for me, that is HUGELY helpful because you're not validating unreality, but instead showing a response that acknowledges what that person is feeling.

*For example, "Alan, you're a big jerk (or worse)!" He says that's not a fact; there's no such thing as a "big jerk;" that's a judgment. I can DO things you don't like, and you can say, "Gosh, I really don't like what you DID," and I can say, "I know you don't [like what I did]." (This is much better than saying, "I didn't do it," or "It shouldn't bother you.")

Instead of replying, "No, I'm not a big jerk," provide a validating response, such as, "I know you're mad at me/upset with me." It is a response that shows that you notice what the person is feeling and keeps the door open just a little bit to find out more/move toward repair...it acknowledges the quality of the offended person's experience, which is that I did something you don't like/that you're unhappy with...

*Goodness gracious, though, just my breathing and existing and being a human can trigger a person with BPD to feel abandoned/worthless/unhappy. This sounds a bit psychotic...one person's unwellness causes them to lash out at another person & the attacked person is to feel "curious" about what's making the enraged one upset?

*One way to show a validating response when someone is thinking/feeling/wanting something is simply to listen and pay attention--this communicates that "I'm interested in what your experience is..."

Now this is where I stumble so very, very often--when I'm being verbally attacked and bombarded, I am pretty much NOT interested in your "experience," I'm interested in protecting myself from the onslaught--especially when it comes out of left field and it seems so outsized and peace-shattering--so much energy being spent on things/events that do not seem to warrant it--yes, I realize the disorder is mentally screaming in THEIR MINDS that this occasion DOES warrant this reaction...but does it, really? Exhausting. (OK, I know...take a break, breathe, pet the cat/dog, sip a cup of tea/cocoa...or punch a pillow, check out what "smash rooms" are, invest in what brings you joy!) Seriously, I don't think we can emphasize this enough--discover (or re-discover) what brings you JOY and just suck the marrow out of it when you can to refill your own tank & help yourself be YOU.

Learning a lot and thankful to be able to "flop about a bit" on here, (as I think one of the introductory messages here puts it) regarding how moderators respond to us "newbies." You have been so warmly welcoming and provide food for thought. I'm grateful.

[Pook075]

Now this is where I stumble so very, very often--when I'm being verbally attacked and bombarded, I am pretty much NOT interested in your "experience," I'm interested in protecting myself from the onslaught--

If you're being verbally assaulted, that's not the time to validate feelings...at least that's not going to be the primary goal. 

When my BPD daughter is in that mindset, I'll try once or twice to say, "What's going on?  Why are you so upset?"  And how I say it is as important as what I say...it can't come off as judgmental or challenging.  I say it with love and compassion like, "Oh my gosh, what happened to you...let's talk about this."

Note, my first reaction is to lean in, which gives my kid a bigger chance to be abusive.  At the same time though, I'm not agreeing with her words...all my focus is on her feelings.  What happened?  Why are you so upset?  I'm genuinely concerned.

Sometimes, that's enough to change the entire course of the conversation.  My kid sees empathy and begins to relax, just a smidge.  Then she tells me what's going on and it probably has nothing to do with me...she was just sounding off in the moment because she was hurt and wanted to rant. 

I know from experience that I can choose to either be her advocate or her enemy in that moment.  If I'm ugly because she said something ugly, there's an explosion.  If I show compassion, maybe it all blows over before it even begins.

Sometimes, my kid is really worked up and the explosion happens anyway.  She'll tell me how I failed her when she was 10....or whatever comes out.  Now her wrath is solely on me.  And at this point, there's nothing I can do to help her directly.  But by making a healthy boundary, I can still help from escalating.  So I say, "Listen, we're both upset so I'm going to walk away for a few minutes to let us cool off."

Now, I wasn't upset...but it sounds so much better than saying "You're upset so I'm leaving."

This lets her cool down on her own, process what's going on, and maybe 5 minutes later we can have a perfectly normal conversation.  Again, sometimes that's not possible...and if so, I'll check in, show a little compassion, then go right back to my boundary if I'm being yelled at.  We'll try again later.

Through all of this, never one time do I talk about our past or something she's blaming me for UNLESS she's calm and thinking rationally.  Because that's the thing about feelings...they don't like facts.  So we fight feelings with feelings (unstable/unhinged with calm/loving), and facts with facts (real conversations about real life problems).

Sometimes, I think of my daughter as a 2 year old that can barely talk....because in a way it's true.  When she's relying on emotion and spiraling, her words can't help and she's throwing a temper tantrum.  So I try to love her through it, I don't mix facts with feelings, and I walk away if necessary.  But i do all of it as lovingly as possible.

Make sense?