did I do something wrong?

[Lauters]

Good morning,

I suspect my wife to have BPD (the higher functional invisible form). She and our youngest son (24 y) have a very difficult relationship. I tried to explain him what the illness is all about. I tried to convince him that she is not a bad mother, but a sick mother. During a fight, he told her about me telling him about the BPD (and that she'd better go in therapy). And now, she's of course very angry and blaming me; she requires that I have to tell my son that it was all wrong what I did.
So my question: is it better to tell the children about the BPD or not?

Kind regards,

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[Notwendy]

I'm an adult daughter of a mother with BPD. She recently passed away at an advanced age. This could have been something she said and "insisted" my father do.

It was a family rule to maintain that she was "normal". From her perspective, she thought issues were someone else's problem, not hers. We were not allowed to say anything possibly critical about her.

Like your son, we had a difficult relationship. Not because of me, but because she had BPD and this affects all relationships.

BPD wasn't known when we were younger, but she did have a mental illness even if it didn't have the correct name to it. Still, even if it was known, I doubt my father would have told me, because of the dynamic you mentioned.

I'll give you examples of what it was like to not be told. I assumed she was "normal" and behaving the way she did on purpose because- she must have hated me. She blamed me for the issues between us. After I went away to college, I believed my family, and my parents, were happy. It was only when a sibling told me later that the issues persisted that I knew that wasn't true but it had an effect on my self esteem.

Because I thought the issues were my fault, I thought I could fix them. If only I could be "good enough", then BPD mother and my father would love me. I couldn't be "good enough" to fix her because- she had BPD and I couldn't fix that.

Long before your son's age, I figured out something was going on with my mother. I was looking at psychology books in high school and college. It was later that I found BPD on an internet search. In my family, it was like the Emperor Had No Clothes story. Nobody would admit it. I was old enough to understand mental illness. I would have prefered to know it was that rather than think she was doing these behaviors on purpose.

Knowing she had BPD was essential for my own learning how to relate to her in a more positive way. I could learn to have boundaries and to not JADE or add to the drama.

That you are in between doing what your wife wants you to do and lying to your son is a similar position to where my father was. But to choose to say something that isn't true will have an effect on your relationship with your son.

When my children were old enough to understand mental illness, I told them about their grandmother having BPD. I was careful to not disclose the experiences I had as a child- that would not be appropriate. I wanted them to understand she was mentally ill, and present it factually- not to put her in a bad light.

By your son's age- the children were adults. I encouraged them to have their own boundaries with her. BPD affects all relationships and so, each of them had their own feelings about her. I did expect my children to be cordial and respectful but left it up to them to decide on how much of a relationship to have with her.

For younger children and to avoid triangulation, I think it's best for a counselor to tell them. With a 24 year old adult child, I think he needs to know the truth. He would  find out anyway with the internet but then wonder why he wasn't told.

IMHO- I also think one needs to go beyond telling children about BPD. Your son needs to learn how to manage this relationship, how to have boundaries, and to learn the relationship tools suggested on this board. Please don't frams him as a "bad kid" or blame him for the issues with her. It was naive for him to say what he said to her but I think he thought it would help. He's fighting with her not because he's wrong or a "bad" kid but because he doesn't have another way to relate to her. At 24, he also can decide on the relationship he chooses with her. I have found that therapy has been helpful to me in learning to do this. I would recommend it for your son if he's willing to do this.

[BeachTree]

I can understand how it might be seen to be offensive. I've been told I have a condition by a partner's family, it's not particularly pleasant.

However, if a partner suggests to the other partner that they have a mental issue, I think it's worth it to the relationship that they go get it assessed. It could help all involved. Then there is not speculation.
But you can't make them go.

[awakened23]

BPD wasn't known when we were younger, but she did have a mental illness even if it didn't have the correct name to it. Still, even if it was known, I doubt my father would have told me, because of the dynamic you mentioned.

Hi Wendy, If your father had told you and your siblings about BPD had he known it do you feel the family environment would have been easier on everyone?
The only reason I am asking is my son knows things are not normal with my uBPDw, but I have not told him anything about it. All I have read says, telling your uBPDw about them having BPD will backfire in terms of worsening the relationship. Telling the kids alone without their mom, would create a dynamic where uBPDw suspects everyone is acting weird. I'm not sure if I should wait until kid is older.

[Notwendy]

Hi Wendy, If your father had told you and your siblings about BPD had he known it do you feel the family environment would have been easier on everyone?
The only reason I am asking is my son knows things are not normal with my uBPDw, but I have not told him anything about it. All I have read says, telling your uBPDw about them having BPD will backfire in terms of worsening the relationship. Telling the kids alone without their mom, would create a dynamic where uBPDw suspects everyone is acting weird. I'm not sure if I should wait until kid is older.

I don't know the road not taken- how it would have made a difference if I was told, but I think it is better for a child to  hear it from a counselor/therapist and not the father.

If it had been my father- it would have been seen by BPD mother as a betrayal. It would have had to be done in secret "don't tell your mother" as saying this to her would have caused her to be angry and it would have been triangulation and a lot to put on a child.

I also don't think it's fair to the BPD parent to identify them as the only source of the issues. While the behavior of the BPD parent may be the most obviously disordered, the dynamics are between both spouses.

The thread is asking about telling a 24 year old. That's an adult. I think an adult child should know the reality of the situation so they can learn to manage the relationship and also make their own choice about the relationship.

For children, my own thoughts are that they can be told information but it should be age appropriate, as part of a larger support and from a professional counselor who knows the best way to do this.

[Lauters]

Many thanks for your reactions on my post.

I can understand that it would have been better if a therapist told him. But the problem is that this would never happen. My son went to a therapist last year, but how would the therapist know about the mental problems of his mother? Even if he described her behavior, no therapist would ever make a diagnosis on that basis.

By the way, nobody believes me anyway. My wife went a few weeks ago to a crisis centre at the hospital because she was totally lost. I had the opportunity to attend one of the sessions with her. There, she forced me to tell about me thinking she has BPD. After this consultation, she had two more (without me). From what she tells me as a result of these consultations, the problem lies in family dynamics: my parents were bad people (she also had a very difficult relation with my parents), so that is what I learned from them. I am the bad person and I am responsible for her to behave like that. I suspect her to manipulate the facts (I know, everybody has his own truth), talking to the therapists. She only tells a part of the whole story, the part where she is innocent (and the victim), and I'm making the mistakes and making her feel that way (that's why she shouts and blames me). And the therapist believes her, and re-enforces her behavior by acknowleging her reactions. I just feel completely stuck, this situation is evolving in a very bad way

[Notwendy]

Although I think it's best that a therapist explain BPD to a child, I think your son, at 24 can hear the truth. He's an adult. Now he can decide what to do with the information.

I agree- a therapist might not have been able to officially diagnose his mother based on what he tells them but the label is only a part of a larger picture. The therapist can help him process his experiences with his mother and how to relate to her. This can be done on the basis of what he tells the therapist.

I understand the "nobody believes you" in the family. My BPD mother blamed other people for her issues. She didn't consider that she may have an issue to deal with.

We kids saw her behavior but if we said anything, nobody believed us. So we didn't bother to say anything.

I agree, it's concerning to be wrongly framed as the bad guy, and maybe telling your son didn't change his mind but you still were truthful with him. What I was thinking is about your relationship with your son. Telling him the truth is being honest with him. It's his choice whether to believe it or not. The alternative would be to not tell him the truth and I think that hurts your relationship with him to do that. This is about you being authentic with your son.

By age 24, I'd already looked in books, took a college psychology class. I knew there was something going on, even if I didn't have an exact name for it. I don't think it would have been wrong for someone in the family to tell me the truth.

[Notwendy]

I wonder about the dynamics in the home with your son. Is he living at home? Does he have plans for education/employment and moving out?

I don't think it would have been wrong if my father told me my mother had BPD at age 24. I did know better- to not tell her- as she'd have reacted at him for that.

Did your son tell his mother because he was angry at her- to get back at her? Or did he tell her as an attempt to get her to seek help- or- did he tell her to divert her anger at you, and off him, to align with her in a Karpman triangle dynamic?

Either way, none of these reasons would be affective. The best use of the informationa about BPD for him would be for him to learn about it and learn relationship tools to decrease the drama between them.

The best boundary for him would be to get his own place. He can still visit and have a relationship with his mother if he chooses, but he'd have his own privacy and safe place too.

[Lauters]

It is the youngest son who has problems with his mother. He just finished university and is now looking for a job. For a few years, he doesn't live at home anymore (student home). But he was living at home during the pandemic, and the latter had a significant impact on my wife. Her BPD behavior significantly deteriorated during this period. So, he heard the shouting and raging. And he cannot stand it anymore. He is very angry because the home situation ruined his (young) life. I was not able to protect him enough, and I underestimated the consequences of his mother's behavior.
Now, he only wants to meet her if his (older) brother is also present, because the risk of a possible conflict is decreased in these circumstances. But for her, it feels like being a monster.
The thing is that he needs/wants a diagnosis: if it is written on paper, he will be able to acknowledge his mother's illness and put it into perspective. But as long as she (and the physicians) pretends that nothing is wrong with her, he considers her angers and raging as personal hostility. So, we thought that her intake to the crisis centre would clarify the situation, which was not the case: she is now even more convinced that the situation is caused by the 'others', and she is the victim.

[Notwendy]

Maybe I can add some perspective to this situation from the adult child's point of view.

Although you did the best you could to protect your children in this situation, your experience of your wife is different than that of a child- even if it's difficult for you too. When you met her, you were already an adult. Your relationship began as a romantic one between two adults. This is different than the experience your children had. BPD affects all relationships and while you may have experienced the most of it- your children also have a relationship with their mother.  Few people are all good or all bad. Some of their experiences may have been good but they experienced the dysfunction too. Babies and children are completely reliant on their parents. Emotionally, they are more vulnerable than an adult. Their bond with their mother is different from your relationship with her.

I agree, it would be  easier on your wife and you, if your 24 year old son just accepted his mother's behavior, and didn't rock the boat by having boundaries. It wouldn't upset her as much. Perhaps you are hoping that if he knew she had BPD, he'd be able to do that? Maybe if he understood her like you do, it would be better?

No, not because he wouldn't want to, but because he can't at the moment and it's uncertain if this can change.  His experiences with his mother began as an infant and small child. It may be different from the other children as children have their own personalities and resilience and how their mother relates to them.

As an adult, even though I could understand my BPD mother's behavior and not blame her for it, I still felt fearful of her possible reactions. Since she tended to hold it together better when other people were around, I also wanted to have other people with me when I visited her.

BPD mother perceived herself as a victim of other people's behavior and didn't see where her own behavior had a role in it. As you have seen, she felt hurt by this and blamed me for it but I didn't do it with that intent.

Here is what I think is important for you to understand- even if your wife isn't able to. At 24, your son also has the choice to stay away from the two of you and not have any contact at all, but he doesn't want to do that. He wants to see you and he's figured out that bringing his brother along helps him to be able to do that as he feels emotionally safer. If you are critical of this, this will discourage him.

Your son probably has been tolerating his mother's behavior for years, because he does want a relationship with his parents. However, when his mother's BPD behavior increased, he felt he could not do this. I reached this point with my parents too, and BPD mother reacted like your wife did, but this was also my attempt to have contact with her.

Your son isn't a monster. He may be a full grown adult man but when he's around his mother, he feels as emotionally vulnerable as a 5 year old boy. If he need someone to help him feel safe when he visits, then see the positive in this- he's trying to navigate his own relationship with his parents because he wants one. For your wife, his efforts may never be enough. Can they be enough for you? Because your decision to accept his efforts on his terms or not- may make a difference for your relationship with him going forward.

[Lauters]

I really want to thank you for the quick replies and the support!