Hope or false hope?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

After 8 months, wife with BPD and I finally had a real talk about the truth.  Recap:

In the first 7 months, she:

- Sort of apologized for the main affair while avoiding details.
- Ceased contact with men outside work.
- Had little concern for my lack of sleep, anguish, etc.
- Shrugged off the 2nd affair that had not yet become sexual.
- Mostly acted like business as usual.
- Deflected and blamed when unavoidable.
- Split more frequently than usual including suicide threats.
- Worked through a DBT workbook and saw a therapist occasionally.  Not a DBT or BPD specialist.

In the last month, she:

- Agreed to see a DBT specialist that I found.  Scheduled for this week.
- Started a workbook by Daniel Fox that I got for her.
- Now understands she meets all the criteria, mostly on the severe end.
- Gave me a real, full confession (I think) and apology.
- Has started asking, "How can I help you?" pretty regularly.
- Took direct accountability for my physical problems (sleep, etc.)
- Has reeled herself in from a few episodes which would've devolved into splits.
- Has been communicating her feelings rather than bottling them for the next explosion.

I'm doubtful that I can ever get over the infidelity, alone.  I don't know what to think about her potential for BPD recovery, though.  I'm too old (49) to wager years on a wait-and-see approach.  I'm a young 49, though, so the idea of starting all over again hasn't expired yet.

If divorce is the likely future, I suppose her potential for progress will make that process easier, no matter what.  If she recovers, maybe I can tolerate the past and keep an arguably unbroken home for the sake of future grandkids, etc.

I really don't know.  The best insight I've gotten so far was, "If nothing changed a year from now, would your current situation be tolerable?"  No.  Absolutely not.

Any stories of recovery, relapse, or disaster out there?

[pantherpanther]

After 8 months, wife with BPD and I finally had a real talk about the truth.  Recap:

In the first 7 months, she:

- Sort of apologized for the main affair while avoiding details.
- Ceased contact with men outside work.
- Had little concern for my lack of sleep, anguish, etc.
- Shrugged off the 2nd affair that had not yet become sexual.
- Mostly acted like business as usual.
- Deflected and blamed when unavoidable.
- Split more frequently than usual including suicide threats.
- Worked through a DBT workbook and saw a therapist occasionally.  Not a DBT or BPD specialist.

In the last month, she:

- Agreed to see a DBT specialist that I found.  Scheduled for this week.
- Started a workbook by Daniel Fox that I got for her.
- Now understands she meets all the criteria, mostly on the severe end.
- Gave me a real, full confession (I think) and apology.
- Has started asking, "How can I help you?" pretty regularly.
- Took direct accountability for my physical problems (sleep, etc.)
- Has reeled herself in from a few episodes which would've devolved into splits.
- Has been communicating her feelings rather than bottling them for the next explosion.

I'm doubtful that I can ever get over the infidelity, alone.  I don't know what to think about her potential for BPD recovery, though.  I'm too old (49) to wager years on a wait-and-see approach.  I'm a young 49, though, so the idea of starting all over again hasn't expired yet.

If divorce is the likely future, I suppose her potential for progress will make that process easier, no matter what.  If she recovers, maybe I can tolerate the past and keep an arguably unbroken home for the sake of future grandkids, etc.

I really don't know.  The best insight I've gotten so far was, "If nothing changed a year from now, would your current situation be tolerable?"  No.  Absolutely not.

Any stories of recovery, relapse, or disaster out there?

[ForeverDad]

Stories of recovery, relapse, or disaster?

We have them all.  However, recovery is a process, probably years long or lifetime, not an event.  Those who do find sufficient recovery to stay together cannot "sit on their laurels" as though the past will not recur.

In some ways, recovery is like an addict's process (tobacco, drugs, alcohol, etc).  There will be relapses since no one is perfect.  The determining factor is whether overall progress is being made.  Just getting yoyo cycles of better for a while may not be sufficient for you.  Whatever the outcome - good, bad or mediocre - it is your decision whether to stay or go when all is said and done.

My marriage did fail nearly two decades ago, but since I had a child with my ex, there was no way to end all contact.  Looking back, my ex's biggest FOO issue (family of origin) was more or less her childhood fear and when I became a father she stopped perceiving me as a good husband and nothing I could do could get past her triggers.  Eventually after years in and out of family court even the court suggested she needed counseling but didn't order it.  So far as I know she never sought therapy.

Recovery really is up to the person herself or himself.  We can't do it for them.  And they can't do it for us either, they have to do it for themselves, regardless of the marriage's outcome.

[PeteWitsend]

...

Any stories of recovery, relapse, or disaster out there?

I've read plenty of relapse stories here; not many recoveries.  Actually can't think of one, certainly not one recently, as in the last 5 years. 

I think you need to just wait and see.  In my experience, I had similar conversations, and BPDxw would even sometimes in the depths of a multi-day emotional breakdown, admit I had done nothing wrong, and she didn't know why she was acting that way.  She would actually use words like that, "You didn't do anything wrong.  I don't know why I'm acting like this."

It was weird.  of course, it didn't lead to her actually stopping the behavior. I figured it was a sign she was either actually losing her grip on reality at times, or it was a calculated effort on her part to give me a glimmer of hope that if I stayed with her, she could be fine? 

Either way, the pattern was the same.  Whenever things got frayed to the breaking point, some sort of promise to work on herself or not do the things that lead to the breaking point, followed by a gradual reassertion of them once she felt confident that I had calmed down, typically also with an attempt to "re-write history" and convince me that it had been all my fault, and I was lucky she was so patient with me. 

This is why it's important to consider what you need and want, and stick to that.  If you're looking for guidance on whether you can at some point accept that the pwBPD has truly changed for the better such that they no longer display BPD characteristics in any persistent sense, I don't know if that's possible.

Just throwing this out there, but look at how long your relationship has been, and how long it's taken to lose your trust.  At a minimum, maybe that's how long it would take to repair it.  And most importantly, you need to see evidence that they've changed when they don't realize you're watching.  They're good actors, so-to-speak.  They can play whatever role they want in the short term, and for an audience.  But when the "cameras aren't rolling" are they still doing what you expect? 

It's not easy to determine that, but I think you need to consider looking at it that way.

[awakened23]

In the last month, she:

- Agreed to see a DBT specialist that I found.  Scheduled for this week.
- Started a workbook by Daniel Fox that I got for her.
- Now understands she meets all the criteria, mostly on the severe end.
- Gave me a real, full confession (I think) and apology.
- Has started asking, "How can I help you?" pretty regularly.
- Took direct accountability for my physical problems (sleep, etc.)
- Has reeled herself in from a few episodes which would've devolved into splits.
- Has been communicating her feelings rather than bottling them for the next explosion.

I am in a similar boat, leaving alone the BPD management, I am not sure if I will be able to get over the betrayal of her affair (which was sexual).

In my case I did get an apology upon discovery. it's anybody's guess if it was sincere. it was persistent and convincing enough at the time for me to rollback my decision to divorce. I did not get the full confession immediately though it was a partial truth, at the time, I got different versions of the truth over the next several months, and finally what seemed like a full confession about 7 months later. Meanwhile the apology switches between blaming me for the affair, to feeling sorry for me, to justify it as not her fault/victim of circumstance.

The progress you mentioned above in your wife sounds very positive overall. I have a question for you that may help me out - how did you initiate the BPD diagnosis/ therapy with your wife? Was it suggested by her therapist or someone else? All I have read is the we cannot be the one to suggest they have BPD. My wife had a 4-5 therapy sessions but the therapist mostly validated her feelings and did not provide any growth. She stopped it after. I think a similar self-discovery of BPD and understanding her own emotions may be beneficial for my wife, if she is directed to it by someone other than me.

[kells76]

To be fair, bpdfamily.com is a self-selecting group. People whose spouses/partners are in active recovery, or have recovered, generally don't join here. That doesn't mean recovery is a low % venture; it's more like joining a group for people with peanut allergies, and asking if anyone has successfully eaten peanuts. You'll get a few "kind of's" or "maybe's", but most people will say "never"... but that isn't representative of the general public.

There are some books about recovery that might help you, in that you can compare your W's trajectory to those examples, and that might give you some data for reflection.

One that comes to mind is Get Me Out of Here: My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland, and another is The Buddha and the Borderline: My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Kiera Van Gelder. (N.B., I have not read either one).

You could also consider joining a support group like NEABPD's Family Connections, which is a Zoom-based but "real person" group that focuses on education and skillbuilding for the non. Having a real person, with education about and experience with BPD specifically, to ask about chances of recovery, could be helpful in your situation, as you gather info to make a decision.

There is typically a waitlist for FC so I'd suggest signing up now. No matter what happens in your relationship, whether you stay or go or do something else, it will be a helpful class. It was for me, and the pwBPD in my life is my H's kids' mom, not my partner.

...

Can you remind me if you are working with anyone on any kind of "infidelity recovery" program? Typically both partners need to be involved, but due to your W's emotional impairment, I wonder if you getting some support solo now, would be better than waiting until later for her to be on more solid ground. Though at some point, if she is emotionally stable enough, working an affair recovery program could be worth looking into. Many pwBPD are not stable enough to do that meaningfully right away, or untreated.

...

I wonder if it would help you to collect some month-over-month data for review and comparison. Waiting a year is a while, but you have good data for the past month right now. You don't have to come up with "pass/fail" criteria or anything... this could be observation and comparison, and maybe the longer you observe and reflect, the clearer your decision will be.

You could consider tracking things like:

-Agreed to see a DBT specialist that I found.  Scheduled for this week.
- Started a workbook by Daniel Fox that I got for her.
- Now understands she meets all the criteria, mostly on the severe end.
- Gave me a real, full confession (I think) and apology.
- Has started asking, "How can I help you?" pretty regularly.
- Took direct accountability for my physical problems (sleep, etc.)
- Has reeled herself in from a few episodes which would've devolved into splits.
- Has been communicating her feelings rather than bottling them for the next explosion.

Has she followed up with keeping an appointment for DBT
Has she done the next page in the workbook
If a situation comes up that for "generally normal" people would merit an apology, was she able to apologize
Does she continue to ask if she can help you with "generally normal" things
Does she impair your sleep again
Has she used skills to stop a dysregulation
Does she verbalize feelings instead of exploding

Again, this isn't about "rate your wife's performance" -- it is about, OK, this last month, a lot of change happened in a positive direction. Is it sustainable?

When she makes healthy choices, how do you typically respond?

[Notwendy]

I think, rather than focus mainly on the person's recovery- also consider your own values and "deal breaker" behaviors. These are individual- no judgment here. It may be that your own mental state is a better measure of how the relationship is going. I think the wish is to make the decision based on the other person, but you are the one to make it- for your own reasons.

Some behaviors may not be tolerable for you. Even without BPD, infidelity is difficult. Since you seem willing to see how it goes, also consider what if she did it again- would that be a "deal breaker"?

What observations in yourself could you see as signs of improvement? If someone is self reguating better, you may feel less stressed, or safer, there could be more moments of calm.

[maxsterling]

In the last month, she:

- Agreed to see a DBT specialist that I found.  Scheduled for this week.
- Started a workbook by Daniel Fox that I got for her.
- Now understands she meets all the criteria, mostly on the severe end.
- Gave me a real, full confession (I think) and apology.
- Has started asking, "How can I help you?" pretty regularly.
- Took direct accountability for my physical problems (sleep, etc.)
- Has reeled herself in from a few episodes which would've devolved into splits.
- Has been communicating her feelings rather than bottling them for the next explosion.

We are the same age.  I face the same question.  Do I end things now and have a peaceful life going into my 50s, or keep praying for change?  I don't have infidelity to get past.  But I do have some very hurtful words thrown at me that I am likely to never fully get over.  And lately she has told me a few things about her past that she never told before that carry more red flags than the Chinese army.  I guess my difference is we have two kids together.  And my W hasn't come close to the positive steps you have mentioned here. 

[ForeverDad]

I face the same question.  Do I end things now and have a peaceful life going into my 50s, or keep praying for change? ... I guess my difference is we have two kids together.

There are two sides to that coin.  On the one hand, having children together can make us reluctant to ponder leaving since we're inclined not to change the kids' status quo.

On the other hand, no doubt your children haven't enjoyed a normal and healthy home environment.  To some extent they may not even know what normal and healthy is since they've only lived with discord, conflict and flying monkeys.  No matter their age, you setting a normal and sane pattern with healthy boundaries can help them set better long term standards for themselves to avoid the natural inclination to seek adult relationships like dad (passive or appeasing) or like mom (demanding and ever-changing depending on moods and triggers).

That is why deciding what to do involves many diverse factors, not the least of which is that it remains Your Decision.  We can't make it for you.