Update and dealing with BioMom about to split on her kids.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Been awhile since I last posted - so a lengthy update, as kid's mom went from agreeable to nuclear in the matter of a few days.  Quick backstory - I'm a longer term (3yrs together 2 all fully living together) live in with my boyfriend, who's ex likely has BPD.  3 young kids, ages 4, almost 8, and 9.  Kids and I get along great - no issues there and have as of late decided on their own that I'm "like a stepmom even if it's not official".  (Dad and I are likely not marrying for awhile yet - we've both been married before and are perfectly fine with our current set up.  See also - HC BioMom with uBPD.)

Current set up - Dad has the kids Wed nights (overnights year round are a recent change - it used to be just an evening visit during the school year and overnights during the summer).  And then Fri after school/SO gets off work (around 3pm) until Sun at 2pm.  We frequently take them over random school holidays and memorial/labor day.  Thanksgiving and Christmas are swapped every other year (with some flexibility around Christmas that has actually been ok - BM spirals around holidays as expected and ends up giving us more time with the kids anyway), and all other holidays and birthdays fall with the custodial parent during that time (ex: Halloween night this year is on a Fri, so the kids are with us since that's the normal schedule).  Things have been kicking around in court for awhile due to a really slow lawyer who changed law firms, and SO waiting out BM in the hopes that she'd chill and just come up with and sign an agreement instead of having a drag out fight in court.  Also let him settle and really decide what he wants.  We are in the final stages with an agreement signed.  All that's left is one more court date needing to be set before it all gets signed off on. 

Things had been ok with BM for the majority of this year.  Less fighting, more attempts at some actual co-parenting.  No longer calling and screaming at SO or even just putting up barriers.  Towards the end of the spring school year she became less and less involved in the kids' school - never signing into the school app and responding to teacher requests.  Middle SK is showing some ADHD traits and had a really hard year last year.  SO was the one communicating with the teacher and trying different tactics with SK.  Despite requests (phone and email) from the teacher, BM never reactivated the school app account and did not partake in working through this situation.  Kids were bringing SO all the permission slips and such, as BM would never sign them.  She also stopped taking the oldest to his extra curricular class that fell on her parenting time, despite being the one to set it all up and initially manage it.  She was way more wrapped up in her on again off again relationship with her boyfriend/affair partner.

This fall - she's been even less engaged.  Not keeping the kids on their insurance.  Not staying signed up for food assistance benefits, and then struggling with keeping groceries in the house (she refuses to work, and tries to live off of child support and whatever she makes from selling/flipping things online).  Drinking has picked up even more, and she refused to go to meet the teacher night or complete any of the school forms for the older two.  Meals have turned into whatever is furnished by the school, and then door dashing fast food later in the evening when the kids complain of being hungry.  She has (mostly) kept up with the preschool info for the youngest, and seems to still be spending a good bit of time with her.  With BM paying less attention to the older kids, they are spending more of her parenting time at friends' houses and/or on screens in their rooms.  From what the older two have told us, she hardly talks to them unless it's to make sure they're home in the evenings or yell at them to clean up/deal with laundry.  During this time the indoor/outdoor cats have fleas again, and the house has another infestation.  The litter box (1 box, 3 cats) also isn't getting cleaned, and two of them have taken to peeing all over the house - but especially under the girls' beds which is carpeted, and isn't cleaning up.  Oldest SK ended up with pinworms, and told his mom.  Apparently they talked about where they came from and to wash hands etc.  But - she never treated them.  SK finally told me about it AND the fact that mom had been notified and did nothing.  We got him meds the next morning, stripped beds, and talked him through what he needed to do at BM's house (she has the older two responsible for doing their own laundry/changing their own sheets). 

The older two have been pointing out the differences between the two houses.  That SO and I do things with the kids and are engaged - "even if it's some of the time and you still tell us to go play on our own for a bit".  That we're feeding them home cooked meals/point out when it's breakfast and lunch time and to put down snacks and eat real food.  And a bunch of other stuff basically showing that we're the stable, mostly normal household - even if it's not "perfect" in their kid view.  SO and I have been letting the kids come to their own conclusions.  Negatives they say about BM's place we remain neutral and ask questions like "what do you think about that?"  and "how does that make you feel?"  We do not talk bad about BM nor try to explain why she acts a certain way.

Everything came to a head this weekend.  The kids had expressed interest in moving the Wed overnights to Thurs overnights - and they stay with us Thurs after school straight through Sundays.  SO presented the idea to BM, and a few weeks later she was ready to do a trial run.  We set up what we would need to get the kids to/from school on Fridays - including the youngest's half day preschool.  It was decided I would do drop off for all 3, SO's mom would pick up youngest, and SO would get the older two.  BM was informed multiple times, but SO said it seemed pretty clear she wasn't paying attention.  She thought things would go like they were on Thurs mornings - Grandma or I (based on availability) would drop the older two off at school and the youngest at BM's house, since the youngest doesn't have preschool on Thursdays.  When that isn't what happened... BM lost it.  Preschool was HER domain and I was not allowed to drop off (there's zero teacher interaction other than here's SK and her stuff!) and Grandma was under no circumstances allowed to pick up youngest (does require teacher interaction as kids are picked up from the classroom).  ...Grandma actually pays for the preschool and has been on the pick up list since day 1 soooo...  It became clear this was the last cling she had to tell herself that she was being a "good parent".  It's a small preschool with a very nosy director - and while they made it clear to SO they knew she was forgetful - she still has them convinced she isn't an uninvolved parent.  (She's given up on the elem school as it's bigger and she cares less for some reason).  She blew up SO's phone off and on all day and unfortunately - once was while the kids were in the car with him.  She was threatening to pull the weekday overnight (can't it's in the agreement), AND cut him down to one weekend overnight (also can't).  He got off the phone saying he had the kids and they would discuss later as they could hear everything.  The older two kids LOST IT.  The oldest has been making comments he wanted to live with us/go to school in our district.  He had a meltdown over being with SO less and how much he did not want to be at mom's because she isn't doing what she needs to do to take care of them.  The middle also apparently gets crazy mad.  How dare mom come up with these crazy last minute changes and act like she cares.  All she does is make promises that she never keeps and at least we (SO and I) are consistent.  That mom hasn't had an actual conversation with her or asked how she's doing/how's school in over a month.  He gets kids settled, BM and he agree to let it ride and discuss in person at drop off on Sunday.

Sunday discussion doesn't go great - BM is still clearly triggered and accusing SO that his switch to Thurs was costing her parenting time, getting him more involved in "places he didn't belong" (SO reminded her he also has every right to be involved with the preschool AND have a designated representative for him).  She's also claiming parental alienation and that he's trying to take the kids from her.  There was some drama over a Halloween costume, and BM started screaming at middle SK.  SK clearly gets upset, and SO tells BM her behavior towards SK is unacceptable, she's just a kid.  Nothing resolved - he leaves.  He gets a phone call around 9pm that overnights stop - the kids were supposedly absolutely horribly behaved and it was all his fault.  That he can be her "babysitter" when she needs one.  He just kept repeating "read the divorce agreement" and "did you talk to your kids?  what did they tell you?".  Short lived before she hung up on him.  Oldest SK has a cell phone and heard the entire thing.  Texted then called dad to ask if overnights were really stopping.  Dad said no, explained high level that he and BM had set parenting times and she can't just take his away (nor can he take away hers).  SO asked SK if anything else had happened today to set BM off - middle SK apparently had it out with BM.  Told her she didn't feel safe there and she wanted to live with Dad and I.  And... abandonment triggered in BM.  Oldest SK reiterated that he also wanted to live with us, but was now scared to tell him mom based on her reaction.  That middle SK is really upset and he tried to sneak over to her room to talk to her, but mom saw and sent him back to his room.  BM spent most of the night texting SO more and more unhinged things regarding custody, what she's going to do, how she's the only one allowed to communicate with teachers/extra curriculars etc.  He admits in hindsight he probably should have just blocked her instead of engaging, but he was pretty upset.

We know she's spiraling because the kids are seeing through her.  And we know it's likely to get better before it gets worse.  To throw a wrench in everything - oldest SK talked to the school counselor about how things were going at his mom's and how he wanted to live at dad's.  Which - good for him!  He did that without prompting, and I'm glad he got some help.  Poor kid thought that by telling the school then telling dad, it would just be a done deal though.  Anyways, in talked with the counselor - he more than likely triggered a mandated report.  So as we're navigating BM's abandonment trigger (caused by her own doing, but we know she'll never see that), we're also waiting for the other shoe to possibly drop from CPS involvement.  Which is going to turn things even worse from her. 

I already have therapy scheduled for later this week, and we'll increase sessions for a bit as well.  SO and I both are at a loss in how to support the kids in all this.  And getting them into outside therapy is going to be tough if not impossible, because it requires a "yes" from BM as well.  And even though I know logically that SO and I are doing things right and SHOULD be providing a stable safe place for the kids, I can't stop feeling like I (or we) did something wrong and maybe we DID alienate the kids some.  Definitely some guilt coming into play over all of this like maybe we did push too hard.  Or that SO should have continued to coddle her feelings to not cause a blow up.  Like - both things aren't good for the kids - but which is worse?  It all sucks here.

If anyone has resources on supporting the kids through this, I'd love them.  And same for any reassurances that this really is BM's doing based on actions she chose/isn't a reflection on us.  BM is my first exposure to BPD at all, and good grief does it make me feel crazy and like I'm the bad guy.  I know that's her projection, but still. 

[ABetterWay]

Been awhile since I last posted - so a lengthy update, as kid's mom went from agreeable to nuclear in the matter of a few days.  Quick backstory - I'm a longer term (3yrs together 2 all fully living together) live in with my boyfriend, who's ex likely has BPD.  3 young kids, ages 4, almost 8, and 9.  Kids and I get along great - no issues there and have as of late decided on their own that I'm "like a stepmom even if it's not official".  (Dad and I are likely not marrying for awhile yet - we've both been married before and are perfectly fine with our current set up.  See also - HC BioMom with uBPD.)

Current set up - Dad has the kids Wed nights (overnights year round are a recent change - it used to be just an evening visit during the school year and overnights during the summer).  And then Fri after school/SO gets off work (around 3pm) until Sun at 2pm.  We frequently take them over random school holidays and memorial/labor day.  Thanksgiving and Christmas are swapped every other year (with some flexibility around Christmas that has actually been ok - BM spirals around holidays as expected and ends up giving us more time with the kids anyway), and all other holidays and birthdays fall with the custodial parent during that time (ex: Halloween night this year is on a Fri, so the kids are with us since that's the normal schedule).  Things have been kicking around in court for awhile due to a really slow lawyer who changed law firms, and SO waiting out BM in the hopes that she'd chill and just come up with and sign an agreement instead of having a drag out fight in court.  Also let him settle and really decide what he wants.  We are in the final stages with an agreement signed.  All that's left is one more court date needing to be set before it all gets signed off on. 

Things had been ok with BM for the majority of this year.  Less fighting, more attempts at some actual co-parenting.  No longer calling and screaming at SO or even just putting up barriers.  Towards the end of the spring school year she became less and less involved in the kids' school - never signing into the school app and responding to teacher requests.  Middle SK is showing some ADHD traits and had a really hard year last year.  SO was the one communicating with the teacher and trying different tactics with SK.  Despite requests (phone and email) from the teacher, BM never reactivated the school app account and did not partake in working through this situation.  Kids were bringing SO all the permission slips and such, as BM would never sign them.  She also stopped taking the oldest to his extra curricular class that fell on her parenting time, despite being the one to set it all up and initially manage it.  She was way more wrapped up in her on again off again relationship with her boyfriend/affair partner.

This fall - she's been even less engaged.  Not keeping the kids on their insurance.  Not staying signed up for food assistance benefits, and then struggling with keeping groceries in the house (she refuses to work, and tries to live off of child support and whatever she makes from selling/flipping things online).  Drinking has picked up even more, and she refused to go to meet the teacher night or complete any of the school forms for the older two.  Meals have turned into whatever is furnished by the school, and then door dashing fast food later in the evening when the kids complain of being hungry.  She has (mostly) kept up with the preschool info for the youngest, and seems to still be spending a good bit of time with her.  With BM paying less attention to the older kids, they are spending more of her parenting time at friends' houses and/or on screens in their rooms.  From what the older two have told us, she hardly talks to them unless it's to make sure they're home in the evenings or yell at them to clean up/deal with laundry.  During this time the indoor/outdoor cats have fleas again, and the house has another infestation.  The litter box (1 box, 3 cats) also isn't getting cleaned, and two of them have taken to peeing all over the house - but especially under the girls' beds which is carpeted, and isn't cleaning up.  Oldest SK ended up with pinworms, and told his mom.  Apparently they talked about where they came from and to wash hands etc.  But - she never treated them.  SK finally told me about it AND the fact that mom had been notified and did nothing.  We got him meds the next morning, stripped beds, and talked him through what he needed to do at BM's house (she has the older two responsible for doing their own laundry/changing their own sheets). 

The older two have been pointing out the differences between the two houses.  That SO and I do things with the kids and are engaged - "even if it's some of the time and you still tell us to go play on our own for a bit".  That we're feeding them home cooked meals/point out when it's breakfast and lunch time and to put down snacks and eat real food.  And a bunch of other stuff basically showing that we're the stable, mostly normal household - even if it's not "perfect" in their kid view.  SO and I have been letting the kids come to their own conclusions.  Negatives they say about BM's place we remain neutral and ask questions like "what do you think about that?"  and "how does that make you feel?"  We do not talk bad about BM nor try to explain why she acts a certain way.

Everything came to a head this weekend.  The kids had expressed interest in moving the Wed overnights to Thurs overnights - and they stay with us Thurs after school straight through Sundays.  SO presented the idea to BM, and a few weeks later she was ready to do a trial run.  We set up what we would need to get the kids to/from school on Fridays - including the youngest's half day preschool.  It was decided I would do drop off for all 3, SO's mom would pick up youngest, and SO would get the older two.  BM was informed multiple times, but SO said it seemed pretty clear she wasn't paying attention.  She thought things would go like they were on Thurs mornings - Grandma or I (based on availability) would drop the older two off at school and the youngest at BM's house, since the youngest doesn't have preschool on Thursdays.  When that isn't what happened... BM lost it.  Preschool was HER domain and I was not allowed to drop off (there's zero teacher interaction other than here's SK and her stuff!) and Grandma was under no circumstances allowed to pick up youngest (does require teacher interaction as kids are picked up from the classroom).  ...Grandma actually pays for the preschool and has been on the pick up list since day 1 soooo...  It became clear this was the last cling she had to tell herself that she was being a "good parent".  It's a small preschool with a very nosy director - and while they made it clear to SO they knew she was forgetful - she still has them convinced she isn't an uninvolved parent.  (She's given up on the elem school as it's bigger and she cares less for some reason).  She blew up SO's phone off and on all day and unfortunately - once was while the kids were in the car with him.  She was threatening to pull the weekday overnight (can't it's in the agreement), AND cut him down to one weekend overnight (also can't).  He got off the phone saying he had the kids and they would discuss later as they could hear everything.  The older two kids LOST IT.  The oldest has been making comments he wanted to live with us/go to school in our district.  He had a meltdown over being with SO less and how much he did not want to be at mom's because she isn't doing what she needs to do to take care of them.  The middle also apparently gets crazy mad.  How dare mom come up with these crazy last minute changes and act like she cares.  All she does is make promises that she never keeps and at least we (SO and I) are consistent.  That mom hasn't had an actual conversation with her or asked how she's doing/how's school in over a month.  He gets kids settled, BM and he agree to let it ride and discuss in person at drop off on Sunday.

Sunday discussion doesn't go great - BM is still clearly triggered and accusing SO that his switch to Thurs was costing her parenting time, getting him more involved in "places he didn't belong" (SO reminded her he also has every right to be involved with the preschool AND have a designated representative for him).  She's also claiming parental alienation and that he's trying to take the kids from her.  There was some drama over a Halloween costume, and BM started screaming at middle SK.  SK clearly gets upset, and SO tells BM her behavior towards SK is unacceptable, she's just a kid.  Nothing resolved - he leaves.  He gets a phone call around 9pm that overnights stop - the kids were supposedly absolutely horribly behaved and it was all his fault.  That he can be her "babysitter" when she needs one.  He just kept repeating "read the divorce agreement" and "did you talk to your kids?  what did they tell you?".  Short lived before she hung up on him.  Oldest SK has a cell phone and heard the entire thing.  Texted then called dad to ask if overnights were really stopping.  Dad said no, explained high level that he and BM had set parenting times and she can't just take his away (nor can he take away hers).  SO asked SK if anything else had happened today to set BM off - middle SK apparently had it out with BM.  Told her she didn't feel safe there and she wanted to live with Dad and I.  And... abandonment triggered in BM.  Oldest SK reiterated that he also wanted to live with us, but was now scared to tell him mom based on her reaction.  That middle SK is really upset and he tried to sneak over to her room to talk to her, but mom saw and sent him back to his room.  BM spent most of the night texting SO more and more unhinged things regarding custody, what she's going to do, how she's the only one allowed to communicate with teachers/extra curriculars etc.  He admits in hindsight he probably should have just blocked her instead of engaging, but he was pretty upset.

We know she's spiraling because the kids are seeing through her.  And we know it's likely to get better before it gets worse.  To throw a wrench in everything - oldest SK talked to the school counselor about how things were going at his mom's and how he wanted to live at dad's.  Which - good for him!  He did that without prompting, and I'm glad he got some help.  Poor kid thought that by telling the school then telling dad, it would just be a done deal though.  Anyways, in talked with the counselor - he more than likely triggered a mandated report.  So as we're navigating BM's abandonment trigger (caused by her own doing, but we know she'll never see that), we're also waiting for the other shoe to possibly drop from CPS involvement.  Which is going to turn things even worse from her. 

I already have therapy scheduled for later this week, and we'll increase sessions for a bit as well.  SO and I both are at a loss in how to support the kids in all this.  And getting them into outside therapy is going to be tough if not impossible, because it requires a "yes" from BM as well.  And even though I know logically that SO and I are doing things right and SHOULD be providing a stable safe place for the kids, I can't stop feeling like I (or we) did something wrong and maybe we DID alienate the kids some.  Definitely some guilt coming into play over all of this like maybe we did push too hard.  Or that SO should have continued to coddle her feelings to not cause a blow up.  Like - both things aren't good for the kids - but which is worse?  It all sucks here.

If anyone has resources on supporting the kids through this, I'd love them.  And same for any reassurances that this really is BM's doing based on actions she chose/isn't a reflection on us.  BM is my first exposure to BPD at all, and good grief does it make me feel crazy and like I'm the bad guy.  I know that's her projection, but still. 

[ForeverDad]

My first thought was that your SO is in an excellent place to ask for a schedule change in the court's parenting schedule so that it reflects better the reality of the recent past.

In my divorce case I was alternate weekend dad during the two year divorce case and none of the professionals seemed to care that our "temp" order was not really temporary.  Well, the Custody Evaluator (excellent child psychologist but a bit expensive) had recommended an equal time schedule known as 2-2-3 (or 2-2-5-5 across two weeks) which essentially split the weekdays in half between the parents.  I chose to have the second half of the week so if any homework had not been done I could monitor it during my time on Thursday & Friday.  The advantages were:

• One parent had Mon-Tue overnights, the other parent had Wed-Thu overnights and then the Fri-Sat-Sun overnights were alternated.
• I had more time with our child.
• Exchanges (drop offs and pick ups) were more often at school reducing parental encounters.
• it didn't stop child support but it did give me added weight in custody topics such as schooling.
• It ought be easier for SO to get the court to agree for him to have Decision Making or Tie Breaker status for school issues, if not more.

Seriously, this change - more parenting time - seems a plus for everyone since he would easily be able to document that he has become the parent primarily involved with the school, teachers and the day-to-day school activities.

Here's what happened at my last court hearing years ago when my son was in his last year of elementary school.  At the time I had the equal time 2-2-3 schedule and was seeking majority time due to the continuing conflict - and her issues with the teachers.  I presented proof she was playing games with exchanges purposely to make them harder for me.  Teachers also testified about her tardies bringing him to school late and the scenes she caused, especially on a scheduled school-sponsored overnight camp.

The decision:  Ex was castigated several times for disparaging father.  I got majority time during the school year.

My takeaway:  Ex's disparagement of me was not limited to the school year yet I got majority time only during the school year.  How was it the school aspect got more action than me as father?  I left that question alone since I got what my son needed.

My point:  Although school - and the court - may bend over backward to appear neutral and unconcerned, the school's testimony and records may get far more action than your SO's own testimony about ex's lack of parenting and parental concerns.

[ABetterWay]

SO did say that middle SK's teacher came up to him during open house this fall, and let him know that she talked to the new teacher SK would have for the 25-26 school year.  Last year's teacher said she already gave new teacher a heads up that dad was the one to communicate with if any issues cropped up.  I felt like that was.... huge, and think SO should ask if she'd be willing to put it in writing.  Most teachers try to stay pretty neutral/out of the drama and only talk behind the scenes to other teachers.  Seemed crazy to me that she'd be that direct.  SO did go ahead and download all the logs/chats from the school app from last year for both kids, as we don't know when or if the school IT side clears them out for space.

I know this is a better question for the lawyer, but I thought that since there was a signed agreement/settlement that it couldn't be opened back up for negotiation/changes at this point, and have to wait for a "material change" down the line (I'm in VA if that's any help to anyone else reading).  Separate issue is if SO would even open it back up... as he's been pretty steady on wanting things to come to an agreement instead of a court fight so that she doesn't take it out on the kids.  His philosophy is since she actually doesn't withhold the kids (only threatens) to wait it out and let her laziness take over and use that to provide proof of when we have the kids etc.  Then she's only "agreeing" to what is already happening.  I... disagree with this but it isn't my case, ex, or kids.  It's only within the past 6 months or so that he's been saving down texts and matching them with missed school days, and keeping a calendar of when we have the kids extra (and noted if we asked for it for vacation or because our work days off lined up with their days off or if we had to step in/meet her request). 

Any resources on how to attempt to explain this to elem age kids?  They are struggling with why they can't just move their stuff over, and if we're doing things the "right" way why the judge won't just say ok done.  Obviously we aren't bringing up anything about mom not wanting to budge on time because she's concerned it'll affect child support.  I feel like we're also right on the cusp of the kids asking why mom acts the way that she does and... ooof.  We are at a loss there as well in how to do so in a way that is age appropriate AND doesn't throw mom under the bus.

[Notwendy]

I'm an adult child of a (now deceased) mother with BPD and what is going on with the kids is similar to what I experienced- except my parents stayed together so there wasn't another situation with one parent that was different.

One of the unspoken "rule" in my family was to maintain that we were "normal", and BPD mother was a good mother. It was very important to her to maintain this impression. I believe she wanted to be a good mother. However, her BPD issues made it difficult for either perceive what this involved and or to achieve it. But any situation that could possibly expose her issues publically would cause her to spin out.

Young children's perceptions are mostly influenced by parents but as children get older, and spend more time out of the house- they see that other situations are different from theirs. In addition, as they mature, they may gain some more emotional maturity than the BPD parent. They know what is appropriate behavior and it can be confusing to see the BPD parent doing things they know are not age appropriate.

In my situation, my parents stayed together and were aligned in meeting my mother's emotional needs. Still, I could see the difference between my friends' mothers and mine. Your step children can to.

This became a challenge to my BPD mother because, we kids also "saw through" the behaviors. I agree, it's not a good idea for your SK's father to say negative things about his ex to the children but it's also not good to invalidate their perspectives. For us, we didn't dare say anything to our parents about BPD mother's behavior or we'd be told there was nothing wrong or we'd be punished or blamed for it. I recommend counseling for children in this situation so they can have a neutral person to validate their feelings and perspectives and to help them cope.

The teen years can be a challege as all teens confront their parents at times with their own perspectives. An emotionally mature parent handles this better than one who is less emotionally mature.

I didn't understand that my BPD mother couldn't manage the tasks of being an involved parent. I thought she didn't want to do them because she didn't care to do them. As an adult, I understand this is more complicated. She was so overwhelmed with her own emotional distress, there wasn't much emotional room to care about others.

I think what happened in your situation is the parenting arrangement change and the preschool discussion threatened the BPD mother's own self image and she responded by spinning out. On the other hand, walking on eggshells and compromising the children's well being is not an acceptable solution. It may not be possible to avoid her reactions to looking out for the children's well being but if you and your BF can see this from her perspective it may help you to manage your reactions to her and navigate this process as best you can.

I faced a similar situation later with my own children. BPD mother was also very invested in being a "good grandmother" but I also wanted to protect the kids from being enlisted as emotional caretakers to her. I had boundaries like not leaving the kids alone with her and visiting as a family/group but she wanted more. BPD mother did react to this, in what I thought was excessive but I see now that it felt threatening to her.

In her elder years, whatever happened was in the past, and not relevant to the situation in the moment. People who knew her told me she loved to talk about her grandkids and show them pictures. She wanted to be known as a loving grandmother like her peers. She also stated that she was a good mother. I think she believed this, or at least wanted to believe it. PwBPD have a poor sense of who they are. I think this was a big part of her identity.

Bottom line though: there was no way I'd have compromised my own kids' well being in order to meet BPD mother's emotional needs, but I also learned that if she needs to believe she's a good mother/grandmother- then if it's possible to protect the kids and also avoid being a direct threat or confront her- then consider that too.

I think it's good that you and your BF are listening to the kids and doing what you can within the rulings of the divorce to provide them with an emotionally safe home. If their mother is neglectful of being involved with school issues or meeting other needs- someone needs to step in and that is the two of you. Kids have no other choices. They adults to take care of them. You two will do extra parenting but it's for the kids' benefit.

[CC43]

This fall - she's been even less engaged.  Not keeping the kids on their insurance.  Not staying signed up for food assistance benefits, and then struggling with keeping groceries in the house (she refuses to work, and tries to live off of child support and whatever she makes from selling/flipping things online).  Drinking has picked up even more, and she refused to go to meet the teacher night or complete any of the school forms for the older two.  Meals have turned into whatever is furnished by the school, and then door dashing fast food later in the evening when the kids complain of being hungry.  She has (mostly) kept up with the preschool info for the youngest, and seems to still be spending a good bit of time with her.  With BM paying less attention to the older kids, they are spending more of her parenting time at friends' houses and/or on screens in their rooms.  From what the older two have told us, she hardly talks to them unless it's to make sure they're home in the evenings or yell at them to clean up/deal with laundry.  During this time the indoor/outdoor cats have fleas again, and the house has another infestation.  The litter box (1 box, 3 cats) also isn't getting cleaned, and two of them have taken to peeing all over the house - but especially under the girls' beds which is carpeted, and isn't cleaning up.  Oldest SK ended up with pinworms, and told his mom.  Apparently they talked about where they came from and to wash hands etc.  But - she never treated them. 

Hi there,

What you describe sounds almost exactly like a situation I have with an undiagnosed NPD brother-in-law with school-age children.  His spiral downwards gradually got worse and worse, mainly due to long-term alcoholism and problems related to obesity and untreated diabetes.  Long-term unemployment.  No edible food in the house--the cereal he bought for the kids had bugs in it.  Irregular meals; ordering UberEats only late at night when the kids are absolutely starving.  Vermin infestation in the home.  Dirty laundry, sheets never washed, plumbing backed up, shower practically not usable, leaking roof not fixed for years.  Vomit on the floor that never got cleaned up.  Jugs filled with pee in the corner of his living area.  Not paying insurance.  Not keeping car registration up to date; driving illegally.  Many car accidents.  Not logging into the kids' school apps.  Not ensuring homework gets done.  Not encouraging regular bedtimes and mealtimes.  Allowing the kids to be on screens all night.  Not showing up to parent-teacher conferences.  Not paying child support.  Inability to execute any appointments (dentist, doctor, sports practices) during parenting time.  Inability to execute the entirety of parenting time and dropping kids off early, or being a no-show at the last minute, with a million (preventable) excuses.  Screaming at the kids for no good reason.  Insisting that the kids remain absolutely silent during weekend mornings so that he can sleep past noon.  Insulting them and calling them *hores and idiots.  Insisting that the kids clean up his messes, and other acts of parentification.  The list goes on and on.  The kids eventually were old enough to recognize that dad was really, really sick, and they mostly hated their time with him, except for the screen time.  The tough part was feeling conflicted about this, because the kids want to love their dad and receive love from their dad.

You might ask, what can we do to help in the situation?  I think there are a few things.  First is to expect practically nothing of the pwBPD.  Insurance?  You make sure the kids are covered.  Food?  My recommendation would be to send the kids with food when they go to mom's house, at least enough to ensure that they don't starve (they could pack some snacks in a backpack, "just in case").  School administrative details?  Make sure you take care of them, knowing that their mom probably won't do anything.  It's not very fair, but it's better for the kids.  Most of all, you continue to provide a safe, nurturing, loving home for the kids.  Your home will be a refuge, and will show the kids what "normal" looks like.

Of course things in your home won't be perfect, they never are, and the kids might act out from time to time because of the distress caused by their mom.  You might consider getting some counseling for the kids.  If it helps, great.  If it doesn't, at least you tried, and you can stop if it's not helping.  You can always pick up counselling again in the future as the kids and the issues evolve.

Then there's the question of visitation.  With the case of my disordered brother-in-law, the courts were very slow to react.  You see, pwBPD and pwNPD have a knack for "pulling themselves together" to look good in front of people who matter.  They are consummate actors, and often liars.  They might convince authorities that nothing is wrong, and they have a list of excuses a mile long.  The thing is, courts are slow to infringe on parental rights.  Moreover, kids typically want to have a relationship with their parents, no matter how disordered they are.  In short, the kids might have to endure visitation with their mom for a while longer.

However, things began to turn around with the living situation with my uNPD brother-in-law when the kids got their school involved.  They complained about dangerous behavior (driving), drinking, verbal abuse and lack of food at the house, which generated multiple CPS investigations.  Eventually CPS saw through the disordered parent's behavior and made a recommendation to the court that (i) visitations with the disordered parent be supervised only, and (ii) he wasn't allowed to drive the kids around anymore.  This was a great outcome, as it seems straightforward for courts to follow CPS recommendations, rather than hash out a parenting plan which relies on compliance by both parties (when non-compliance is practically guaranteed with the disordered parent).  In practice, requiring supervised visitation meant that visitations practically stopped, because he wasn't willing or able to execute.  The kids still have video conferences with their dad (when he doesn't skip them), and they can visit him on vacations at Grandma's house.  That's a much better situation for the kids. 

[Notwendy]

Any resources on how to attempt to explain this to elem age kids?  They are struggling with why they can't just move their stuff over, and if we're doing things the "right" way why the judge won't just say ok done.  Obviously we aren't bringing up anything about mom not wanting to budge on time because she's concerned it'll affect child support.  I feel like we're also right on the cusp of the kids asking why mom acts the way that she does and... ooof.  We are at a loss there as well in how to do so in a way that is age appropriate AND doesn't throw mom under the bus.

It is good to be conscious of not triangulating with BPD mother. I think it's best to have the kids in counseling and with a neutral professional who can best manage this. They are going to have questions, and it will get more complicated as they mature. BPD affects all relationships.

They will also benefit from someone helping them to navigate this relationship and the particular challenges in this. This is their bio mother and it will be when they are adults too. They also benefit from other mothers as role models and mothers who love them- this is you. Do not underestimate the impact you have on them. It's important. I am grateful for the other "mothers" too- relatives, the mothers of my friends. But we have one bio mother and that is significant. The kids will need to navigate this, and maintain some of their own boundaries.

Kids don't need to know all the details at once. If they ask why they can't just move in with you, you can explain that the law thinks it's important for kids to spend time with both their mother and father. It's all they need to know at the moment. As they get older, I think the law will allow them to have more say in who they stay with.

[ForeverDad]

Many here have encountered obstructions from their ex-spouses refusing to allow counseling for the kids.  A couple major reasons are that the ex (1) is too entitled or controlling to let the other parent's efforts succeed and/or (2) doesn't want the parenting exposed.

Typical custody orders state the parents are to share custody.  That means anything which one disagrees with is either dropped or it goes to a mediator, parenting coordinator or the court.  My lawyer told me, "Court loves counseling.  If one parent wants counseling for the children then counseling will be ordered if necessary."

However, the challenge is how not to let the ex control counseling or even the choice of a biased counselor.  One approach is for the reasonably normal parent to vet a number of possible counselors and choosing a short list of those better vetted professionals - hopefully ones that accept the available insurance - and then let the ex choose from among that vetted list.  Court will see that as a wonderful way for both parents to come up with a selection.  (Of course, this means we have to proactively come up with that short list before the ex decides to take over the selection.)

And don't forget that schools have counselors too.  While they're not there for in-depth issues needing tutors, etc, their availability is better than nothing.

[zachira]

Some school systems do provide in depth counseling for students with serious issues. Some school systems do provide therapy for any student, when there is a request.

[ForeverDad]

Some school systems do provide in depth counseling for students with serious issues. Some school systems do provide therapy for any student, when there is a request.

Wow, my assumptions stand corrected.  Always check your local resources and agencies.  Results vary depending upon your location.

[ABetterWay]

All of this is so unbelievably helpful!   

 @Notwendy - your insight right now is invaluable.  You don't have to answer but, are there things that you wish your dad had done earlier on to "protect" you and your siblings?  That's my biggest issue with SO's plan of "letting BM's lazy" win.  That down the line the kids may resent him for not acting sooner. 

@CC4 - yeah the situation sounds similar, but like we aren't quite to the full scale (yet).  I do think there is food in the house, but it isn't "easy" food (requires minimal cooking that the kids can't do yet) or isn't things that they like    Not a lack of food that CPS would call it out.  I think the comment is more that she isn't helping them pull together meals or more involved snacks other than dinner - and it's been Door Dash instead of her cooking lately.  The oldest (who told the school they don't have enough food) actually isn't a big fan of fast food/take out.  She is eligible for food resources (SNAP), but she tends to let it lapse because she doesn't want to sit at the support office for an hour or so however often it needs to be renewed.  I'm really glad to hear that changes happened once the school was involved.  I think that might be the best route for us to go - as it's a more neutral 3rd party enforcer, as we all know anything SO tells her is going to immediately bump up against her issues and she'll reject it. 

@ForeverDad - you hit the nail on the head when it comes to counseling for the kids.  BM wants nothing to do with it because she doesn't want the kids talking to anyone/exposing her.  Then she loses her facade.  And yes, any non-agreement from either side means a "no" and there isn't a set mediator or parenting coordinator, and the courts are ridiculously backed up.  BM "controls" the insurance as well, as she can put the kids on Medicaid (if/when she keeps it up to date).  SO's company insurance is insane for dependents, and I can't put them on mine until/if we're married.  Right now going through the school for any sort of counseling is our best bet.  It doesn't require parent approval to happen though they do send home a form that needs a parent signature saying your student met with the counselor and discussed a high level overview of the topic - on the form we got it was discussing home life between mom and dad's.  Right now SO left the form in SK's folder so that BM has the chance to see it should she choose - if she hasn't signed it by the end of this upcoming week then he'll go ahead and sign.  He has also set up a phone meeting with the counselor for early next week.  The plan is to talk in more depth about what resources are available/how in depth the school counselor can go.  They can also set up a set time for SK to talk, and evaluate if middle SK should do so as well.  If appropriate, he plans on mentioning some of BM's mental health struggles just so that the counselor has some background on what's going on. 

SO and I talked some more last night - now that emotions have simmered back down.  We have a plan to move forward that does involve getting the school more involved.  We're making sure we have good data to show trends on how much extra time we already take with the kids throughout the year (and the situation around the extra time if needed).  He does want and feels like it's better if he has more custody time - unfortunately I feel like this would have been an easier path had he made that decision 6-8 months ago.. but here we are.  I can only support, not push.  There will be a call to the lawyer to see what any potential options to amend would be right now, and what a path to officially get additional custody would look like.  Our state is leaning more and more towards 50/50 split, and on paper we're at about 40/60.  Tonight is our first night with the kids after it all went down.  Our plan there is to be available and check in with the older kids separately and one on one (in a "you know we're here to talk) kind of way, but to not push or dwell.  We have found that the kids will sometimes tell SO some things and me others.  I'm most worried about middle SK, as she isn't one that really opens up much, and she took the brunt of the anger on Sunday evening. 

[zachira]

After a certain age in some places, the child is allowed to have therapy without parental approval. The must likely place for this to happen is in a school system where the counselors follow children from troubled families from year to year and school to school, and let the child and parents (if applicable and is in most cases) know that therapy is available. Also in certain places, the therapist holds the privilege for the child not the parent, which means the therapist can choose not to disclose what the child reveals in therapy, which makes therapy a safe place for the child to disclose what they need to, and prevents disordered parents from withdrawing their child from therapy when they learn what the child is disclosing to the therapist which makes the parent look bad.

[Notwendy]

My father did a lot of positive things for us. He  provided all the financial support and acted as the parent for us. Emotionally, he was the only parent we had. He did way more than his share of parenting and I credit him for our well being, even if there are things I wish he'd done differently- they may have been beyond what he was capable of emotionally himself in his situation. The dynamics in a BPD marriage involve both people and he was a part of them too.

I think one of the best things he did for us as kids was to get us out of the house and to other relatives as much as possible. We stayed with family members during school breaks. This is in part, because my BPD mother lacked the emotional capacity to be a parent. You may find yourselves doing more than your share of parenting but it does make a big difference for the kids.

I wish someone had told me the truth about her when I was old enough to understand mental illness. I think this needed to be done by a neutral third party, not my father. It was like "the emperor had no clothes" and everyone pretended all was normal, yet we saw what we saw.

I think Dad was trying to reassure us by telling us that BPD mother loved us when she was dysregulated and being emotionally and verbally abusive.  I think a counselor would be able to explain this better to children too. It's confusing when someone supposedly "loves you" and also acts like this.

I don't think there's anything anyone can do to keep the kids from some exposure to BPD mother but having a stable environment like you and your H provide (and relatives did with us) make a big difference in mitigating the impact of this.

The kids will ask questions and want answers. I think being open and honest (without triangulating) and forming a trusting bond with them is the way to go. They can see the difference.

They may be critical of their father at some point but there are no perfect parents. They will develop different relationships with each parent according to the ability of that parent to have a relationship. You and their Dad- focus on yours. There's no predicting the one with their mother.

Support them in becoming independent. If this means college- do what you can to help them get there and through it. If it means employmen or trade school- support that path too, to the extent you can. State college, community colleges are fine. One doesn't need to go to expensive schools if they are not affordable. For me, college was the path to independence.

[ForeverDad]

My separation and subsequent divorce weren't typical - my ex actually signed up our preschooler for counseling without my knowledge.  Of course, the "temp" order defaulted to motherhood empowerment so she didn't have to notify me.  I found out when my insurance sent me a recertification notice 3 months later.

Why did ex do that?  She was looking for negative advocates, as we call them, professionals who would support her claims and allegations.  That was her victim-oriented perspective and the system let her pose that way for a long, long time.  They never called her a liar but eventually said her claims were "not credible" which I concluded was understated court-speak for liar.

Essentially, none of the children are too young for sessions.  The youngest might have "play therapy" to help the child to get a general sense of what normal is and is not.  How counseling would proceed would depend on their rate of progress and ongoing needs.

I concluded my court relied much more on the observations and recommendations of the professionals surrounding the court than me as a parent.  And that included school input.