We Got back together, I would love some advice moving forward

[stevemcduck]

Hey everyone,
I used to post here a lot earlier this year when I was going through the fallout of my relationship with my ex, who has BPD. I just wanted to give an update, and honestly… to reach out because I’m struggling again.

After months of no contact and a lot of personal work, we ended up reconnecting. I wrote her a deeply personal book as a kind of closure gesture, and somehow it opened a door instead. She reached out, we talked for hours, and she was emotional, apologetic, and said she still loved me. It felt like the miracle I had hoped for during all those dark months, like maybe all the pain had been worth it.

We started seeing each other again, slowly at first, then she was coming up every weekend. We even went on holiday together recently, and in many ways, it was beautiful. She was sweet, loving, attentive, all the things that made me fall for her in the first place. She’s been open about wanting to move back near me, saying she wants to “be home” again.

But a few days ago, I found messages on her phone from when we she moved away and insisted it was just a break and she needed space but was working on herself and we were to have absolute no involvement with other potential romantic interest.the messages were between her and her old boss, and a few other men. They were sexual and cruel. They mocked me, called me weak, and said things that were honestly devastating to read, including sending me their conversations so I would kill myself. She’s deeply ashamed now, apologising constantly, and she swears she never slept with anyone. She’s letting me ask questions, trying to rebuild, and says she’ll do whatever it takes to earn back my trust. She even got a tattoo with my name to show her commitment.
And I believe she means it. But I can’t seem to stop replaying what I saw. I’m finding it hard to eat, to train, to focus. Some days I just want to sleep to get away from the thoughts. I keep catching myself wondering if she’s still lying about parts of it. I want to trust her, but part of me feels like I lost my dignity by staying. Then another part can’t stand the thought of losing her again. It’s a painful tug of war inside my chest every single day.

She even sent explicit videos to him on the day I travels 5 hours to visit her during that break period,  she said she didn't want to see me to him and I wouldn't leave her alone but that wasn't true, I offered to walk away many times but she she wanted to work things out.

I know trauma bonding plays a part in this. I also know she has BPD and her shame, impulsivity, and fear of abandonment all feed into this behaviour. But knowing that doesn’t make the hurt go away.

We have discussed BPD and she now knows she has it, and accepts that.

Right now she’s doing all the right things, FaceTimes, reassurance, showing accountability, and yet I still feel unsafe. I love her so much, but I’m not sure if love is enough to heal this.
If anyone’s been through something similar, rebuilding after betrayal, especially when BPD is involved, I’d really appreciate hearing how you navigated it.

How did you learn to live with the uncertainty and stop needing every truth?

How did you rebuild trust without losing yourself again?

Thanks to everyone here for being a space I can be honest in. I don’t feel like I can talk about this anywhere else.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[hiiumaa]

Hi stevemcduck,

I‘m sorry for what you are going through.
This sounds really difficult.

My partner with bpd/npd cheated a few times via Facebook - sending some women flirting texts. I only know about it, because I know one of those women and she told me that he had contacted her and asked her to come around for s.e.x.

A few month ago he betrayed me in an emotional way with my best friend. At that time I needed space and distance to my partner, because he was extremely emotional abusive. Normally I helped him with paperwork because he lost his job, but in that phase, I didn‘t. So he contacted my best friend and asked her for help. Telling her, that I am so cruel to him. My best friend - who knew all about his abusive behavior agsinst me - helped him out. She enabled him in any way. One evening in the summer he moved flat - in her house - because she had a free flat. After the move ( I was there all day to help and left in the evening because I had to care for my animals ) they both had a meal together and went to the pub. They agreed to not tell me about it.Unfortunately ( or luckily? ) somebody who knows all three of us told me about it the next morning. I was shocked.

So - I understand your feelings and can imagine how difficult that is.

I ended the contact to my best friend. Also to my partner, because both of them just said I would be insane because of jealousy.

My partner came back after a few weeks. Trying to get back in the relationship. We meet up sometimes now, but I feel the trust-problem. The last time he said, we have to talk about what happened. Honestly - I doubt that talking will change my trust-problem.


I‘m also interested if anyone here could really trust again after things like that.

[ForeverDad]

So many of the Borderline patterns are dysfunctional... the repeated push-pulls, the broken promises, the denials of facts you've learned, etc.

Ask yourself... Is it worth the cost of dealing with recurring dysfunction?

Some have compared it to riding and endless roller coaster.  At first it exhilarating but then you get motion sickness from the constant chaotic ups, downs and sideways.  The thing is that roller coasters eventually come back into the station, though some may be allowed to keep riding.  It's up to you to decide whether it's wise to stay or wiser to step away.  After all, you know the tracks, the hills and the drops.  It's not like you haven't been there before.

What can change the dynamics that might make the relationships less unhealthy and less distressing?  Therapy is crucial.  Most people can't recover significantly from their issues on their own.  Would your partner agree to start and stick with meaningful therapy, probably for years?  And what about you?  Could you too seek to address your tendency to crave this sort of dysfunction?

[stevemcduck]

Hi Hiiumaa - thankyou for sharing the story and im sorry the happened to you, it is very devastating to read the messages like that when you love the person so much and you thought they loved you also. u fully understand the trust problem.

hi forever dad - thankyou for your input. She has said she want to start therapy. im in such a hard place as the pain to be without er again will be excruciating, however also the pain of what she did also hurts like hell all of the time

[kells76]

Welcome back, and it makes a lot of sense that you wanted to try again with your loved one. It's good to be reaching out for feedback and asking questions about how to work through this hopeful but also really painful time.

I want to add my vote for looking into therapy -- not just any kind, but perhaps something like "affair recovery" or another trust-rebuilding specific focus. I am not sure if there are couples who can "do it yourself" with trust recovery, especially when there are challenges like BPD as well. If your partner is currently receptive to therapy, that seems like a good area where the two of you can be on the same page and feel like a team seeking help together

Does she agree that there are trust issues in the relationship?

While this is not impossible to come back from, it probably will have some challenges, and won't be a "quick fix" -- but if you two can agree that things have been broken and you want to improve, there can be some hope.

[Pook075]

How did you learn to live with the uncertainty and stop needing every truth?

How did you rebuild trust without losing yourself again?

Those two questions are so tough because they're more about you than anyone else.  At the end of the day, you will learn to trust her or you won't.  It's about forgiveness and actually letting go.

What do you feel like you need to actually let go of those fears?  Think about it because it's not a trick question.

[Under The Bridge]

We all wish you the best in your reconnection, but we equally don't want you to get hurt again and go though all that you've endured before, so take it easy and don't expect too much; it seems like she's back in the idealisation phase again and is treating things as 'new' again.. but the many red flags are still there as you've seen. She's still totally non-commital and wants the option of you or the other guy. That is  BIG flag.

She needs to show the one thing that would convince you she's genuinely trying - commitment. By that I mean getting professional help for her condition which you say she now accepts she has. Without treatment the cycle will continue without end.

Even that isn't real proof unless she sticks to it; there are many posts on here about BPD partners going to therapy but giving it up for a myriad of excuses like ' I've gone for a few weeks now and I'm cured', 'I don't get on with the therapist' or in the worst case, all they do is moan to the therapist about how you are the problem and there's nothing wrong with them. You need to see real perseverance and determination to be sure that she has a chance of changing.

If you're really sure you want to try again then good luck to you.. just try not to expect too much, at least at this stage.

[hiiumaa]

Hi there!

I can confirm the words of you all.
My partner was in therapy the last year. But what happened was: 1.He left every therapist who really confronted him with his entitlement and emotional disregulation. 2. After a few weeks just said „oh, I‘m fine now. Don’t need these shrinks“ or „they can‘t help me anyway“ or „I told the therapist how horrible you have let me down endless times“ . 3. He told me, that he only needs a job, a house, the RIGHT partner - and everything will be fine.

I think, it is a good question to ask: „Why do I want to stay ( or go back ) in a relationship like that?

I‘m in therapy myself for a very long time. I have many issues like: not being able to set boundaries, people pleasing because a huge fear of being judged… I think, that feeds an unhealthy relationship.


So - why not let go a relationship where the partner is not able to see the core of the problems in the relationship? I even adressed that a few times very clear to him: „We are in a toxic relationship. From both sides. If we don’t really look at that BOTH, there is no Chance.“ He is not ready for that. And still a crazy little hope always glimps up again…

[ForeverDad]

hiiumaa, Your partner is refusing your help (typical since BPD is a dysfunction of close relationships) and therapeutic help (also common since Denial and Blame Shifting are typical of self-oriented BPD traits).

So since he refuses to even consider improving himself, then the ball is in your court, it's up to you to change your life.  Otherwise the past will be your future.  Your counseling may need to include codependency issues, among others.  You can and should choose your own better future even if that means your current relationship is sabotaging you.

Finally, please avoid having children until you know your concerns are fully resolved.  Believe me, I and many others did that and regretted it.  Having children does not fix major mental health issues in the relationship, instead it vastly complicates everything.

[Notwendy]

What you described can be seen through Karpman triangle dynamics with the new guy in rescuer position and you being in persecutor position, GF as victim. New guy is feeling like the good guy, rescuing her from you, having been painted as the bad guy here.

As much as this is hurtful to you, it's more about your GF getting her emotional needs met than about you. For this dynamic to work for her- someone has to be painted black.

For a pwBPD- feelings feel like facts. What she said may be about her feelings or even she doesn't believe they are true- but they work in the moment to get her needs met, keep her rescuer in this position, and the rescuer gets to feel superior in the moment.

In the moment, one person can be painted white, then black. There's a push pull dynamic to BPD relationships. If this is a long standing way your GF gets emotional needs met, it is unlikely to change in the short run.

This also happened when you were on a break. You were never meant to see these messages. My BPD mother would do this kind of thing- say hurtful things about the person in persecutor position that were not true- even she may not have believed it- but for her, being in victim position and having people be "rescuer" met an emotional need for her. She acted impulsively and in the moment. Maybe she felt shame or regret later but when she felt she needed something she did what she felt she needed to do.

Whether or not you can get past this yourself is up to you. If this is a deal breaker, then it is. If you can "look the other way" and take her at face value in the moment, then that is up to you too. One step to doing this could be to see these statements as not being personal to you, but more about getting her needs met in the moment.

I agree that forgiveness is a step to trust, but the two are different. Forgiveness is up to you. It's granted and also in your benefit. Trust also involves the other person's behavior. We can forgive someone for robbing our house but also decide to not give them the key to it if they repeatedly rob it.

If someone is genuinely remorseful and promises to not do it again, you might be willing to give them another chance. If they do it again, you have another choice to make.

It's your choice to trust her or not, as this kind of behavior could be a boundary and even a deal breaker boundary to some people. You can choose what this is for you. If you can not trust her, then this is something that will impact the relationship for both of you.

[hiiumaa]

Thank you, ForeverDad and Notwendy!

I think, you both are right. It‘s to the point.

ForeverDad, this is one fact that is absolutely clear to me: No kids. He knows that. I‘m 45 anyway… there is no desire for that from my side. And he is over 50.He still wants it - but it will Not happen with me.

stevemcduck, thank you for giving me space in your thread! Your question was so much fitting to my experiences!I will step back now because it‘s still yours. 

[stevemcduck]

Hi Kelis thank you for welcoming me back., I think the highest priority would be for her to seek debt therapy and maybe couples therapy also but she doest seem to keen on that. I have a therapist of my own since I had before the breakup so im working on myself also. I want things to work so badly but I am afraid it will happen again and also that I am losing my own self respect. but for some reason I just cant let go of her.

good to hear from you again look and thanks for your continued support, your question -

What do you feel like you need to actually let go of those fears?  Think about it because it's not a trick question.

The truth Is I need a partner I can trust. and I cant trust her. it would be straight forward but again. im struggling to let go.

hi underthebridge - yes I dont want to get hurt again either. she doest seem to be non committal or still holding on to any other options. she has had my name tattooed and has said I can look at her phone any time I want for peace of mind, not that il take her up on that without good reason but she has done as much as she possibly can to prove she is for real. yes I am going into this with my eyes open this time and trying to keep a certain level of emotional detachment and low expectation.

hi Not Wendy, you are absolutely right on the karpman triangle. she has even admitted this herself. thankyou so much for the input. I have explained to her that its a hard boundary for me that is there is any more secrecy around her phone, or she talks to other men outside of the relationship I will walk away. and I mean it. she has the same assurances from me. I dont hide anything from my partner.

I Think only time will reveal if I can take it. but right now I feel used, humiliated, led on and betrayed. and I wonder if it's a trauma bond or real love that I stay. I think what has hurt the most is the illusion is shattered, I thought she was my ride or die girl. I no longer feel that way towards her.

[Pook075]

The truth Is I need a partner I can trust. and I cant trust her. it would be straight forward but again. im struggling to let go.

Hey Steve, I completely understand why you'd feel this way.  How do you trust when trust is broken?  It's like a catch 22- fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

At the same time though, there's no possibility of having a healthy relationship without trusting her.

For now, you can't trust her and I fully get it.  But what needs to happen to get to a place where you could trust again?  Please talk this out without boundaries, even if it sounds unrealistic at first.  There is no relationship without trust, so we need to find that path.

To give you an example, let's say I want to fly to the moon...it's my lifelong dream.  Every day, I tell everyone I meet that I'll walk on the moon someday, that it's my destiny.  Yet, I never do anything that actually could get me into space. 

See the problem here?  I need specific things to make the dream a reality, but I'm not creating a path that will allow that to happen.  You're in the exact same place.  Even though you can't trust today, this doesn't work unless you find a path to building trust. 

So really think about this and share what that would look like to you....what would she have to do to get you to a starting point of trusting her again?

[stevemcduck]

You’re completely right, there’s no real relationship without trust, and it’s not something that magically returns overnight. For me, there has to be a clear path,

I would need the following, consistency for the first couple of months, I’d need full transparency, no secrecy around the phone or messages. Not because I want to check, but because openness builds safety in my brain. There can’t be any contact with past or new men, especially ones she was involved with before. She’d need to start therapy, proper BPD focused work, not just a few sessions then quitting. We’d both need steady communication and no disappearing when things feel uncomfortable. I’d also know things are improving if I start feeling calmer, sleeping better, eating properly, actually able to focus again.

She’d need a plan for when she feels flooded or ashamed, like, take a short break to regulate instead of running or seeking comfort from someone else.

If things last long term, therapy should be ongoing, and she should have her own stability, work, friends, routines, without chaos. We both keep our independence, and the relationship stops feeling like a constant rescue mission. what I need to ask myself is this, do I actually feel safe more days than not?

Non-negotiables
Any secrecy, contact with other men, lying, or quitting therapy would be deal-breakers.

My side
I’d keep my own therapy, stay calm when I need answers, and give credit when I see progress. I won’t police or punish, but I won’t ignore red flags again either.
If that pattern holds, trust could start to rebuild.

[kells76]

It's good to talk through specifics -- that can help you understand your own values, desires, priorities, & boundaries 

Do you think the two of you can do this on your own, or do you think you would need a third party to help?

[Pook075]

Hey Steve!  I split up your topics a little so I can provide specific advice to specific expectations.  Thanks so much for taking the time to think through that and write everything out, hopefully it made you feel a little more in control of this situation.

I would need the following, consistency for the first couple of months, I’d need full transparency, no secrecy around the phone or messages. Not because I want to check, but because openness builds safety in my brain. There can’t be any contact with past or new men, especially ones she was involved with before.

This is a great place to start and I agree; no man wants his partner talking to an ex or spending excess time around new men.  The cell phone stuff is an extension of that and these are things you should be able to discuss directly...if not now, then at some point in the future. 

As Kells said, it may be worth considering having this conversation in couples counseling so it feels less threatening.  Don't look at this as a demand either; it's simply stating that if she wants you to be all-in, then she should be all-in as well and you shouldn't have to worry about other guys.

We’d both need steady communication and no disappearing when things feel uncomfortable. I’d also know things are improving if I start feeling calmer, sleeping better, eating properly, actually able to focus again.

This is also perfectly reasonable.  In a committed relationship, there has to be a way for communication to work both ways.  I talk out everything with my wife and we don't keep secrets.  But that didn't just happen, it's building trust and having enough confidence in one another that one of us isn't going to explode if the other is struggling or did something irresponsible.

She’d need a plan for when she feels flooded or ashamed, like, take a short break to regulate instead of running or seeking comfort from someone else.

This is an extension of what we just discussed; the plan is turning to her partner and saying what's actually going on.  At the same time though, she has to trust you enough to know that you're going to be there for her without judgement to help her work through whatever she's dealing with.

In other words, you don't want her to go to her friend's house to talk things out whenever she's "in a mood".  Nothing good comes from that long-term and it all comes back to communication.  She needs to feel safe and you need to make her feel safe.  This is absolutely a project for both of you to improve on.

She’d need to start therapy, proper BPD focused work, not just a few sessions then quitting.

This one's a real problem because you're with her now.  Are you prepared to end the relationship today if she doesn't get into therapy?  Or would you walk away if she missed two appointments next month?  It's honestly not a fair expectation; especially if she doesn't want to be in therapy.

You can draw that line, it's absolutely within your right to feel that way.  But if that's a sticking point and she's not going to take it seriously, then what's the point?  Therapy works when the patient actively wants to get better...it can't be forced on anyone.

I hope that helps and please keep talking this out!

[stevemcduck]

I can understand what you mean about the therapy, I will need to give some leeway on this one.

my mind is starting to change a little and and im considering walking away. here are the pros and cons -

cons

she abandoned me.
she strung me along saying we were just on a break while talking to other guys.
she ghosted me.
she talked to multiple men during this time sending them explicit videos also.
she mocked me to them and allowed them to disrespect me, joking along also.
she lied to them about things I did that was not true.
she was still talking to one of them even when we got back together. however in fairness it was to say she couldn't talk to him anymore and told him we were back together. however the still belittled me to him saying that she chose the most financially crippling place for me to take her to as a joke.
she allowed one guy to use our secret pet names.
she even suggested she should send one of their convos to me so I would kill myself.
she told me a story when we got back together about the main guy I was worried about before we split (her boss) that he tried to convince her to do porn after he fired her so she blocked him, however when I saw the phone he was not blocked.
on one part of a conversation she said that her bpd had chose another favourite person and she no longer cares about me

the pros

she is all over me now, constant messaging and calls
she got a tattoo of my name in an intimate area
she says she has learned her lesson
she is making the most effort financial and time wise to visit me, putting in the greater amount of effort
she does seem to be remorseful and that she loves me
she has said she won't hide her phone and I can look if I ever need reassurance
she is allowing me to ask questions when needed.
she is ready to attend therapy
when talking to these guys, all of them, I did see to be a huge topic of conversation, whether bad or good, so this does prove I was in her mind the whole time

im in a strange frame of mind, I do love her deeply and I know that her actions were most likely caused by her bpd but I feel like ive lost a huge chunk of my self respect and im disappointed in myself. but I cant seem to let go.

[stevemcduck]

when talking to these guys, all of them, I did seem to be a huge topic of conversation, whether bad or good, so this does prove I was in her mind the whole time

fixed typo

[Pook075]

I can understand what you mean about the therapy, I will need to give some leeway on this one.

my mind is starting to change a little and and im considering walking away. here are the pros and cons -

Hey Steve, thanks for replying.  The "pros" are promising, especially if you didn't see some of those traits before.  The "cons" are also tough though and each of them ultimately come back to trust...can you trust this woman to not repeat the past?

Nobody here can tell you to stay or go.  Nobody can tell you what's fair or unfair.  You have to trust your gut and make the best possible decision for your life.

Did something specific happen that made you consider breaking up again?  Like the ex-boss she said she blocked?  I just want to be sure everyone is seeing the full picture.

[stevemcduck]

no nothing new happened, but the more time passes the more the betrayal and disrespect sinks int me. I loved her so much and one of the main reasons for that was the loyalty she showed me throughout the relationship. I felt complete safe with her. now I dont. there are many qualities in her I still adore, however, its like there is this huge stain on the relationship, one thats making me feel like im losing my own self respect. god knows how she feels subconsciously about my weakness.

while I still love her, care about her and want to be there for her. she is no longer who I thought she was. she doesn't feel "mine" anymore. during our relationship she was fiercely loyal. I felt like the only guy on the world. now I dont.

[Pook075]

no nothing new happened, but the more time passes the more the betrayal and disrespect sinks int me. I loved her so much and one of the main reasons for that was the loyalty she showed me throughout the relationship. I felt complete safe with her. now I dont. there are many qualities in her I still adore, however, its like there is this huge stain on the relationship, one thats making me feel like im losing my own self respect. god knows how she feels subconsciously about my weakness.

while I still love her, care about her and want to be there for her. she is no longer who I thought she was. she doesn't feel "mine" anymore. during our relationship she was fiercely loyal. I felt like the only guy on the world. now I dont.

Yeah, I can completely understand and I felt the same way after my BPD ex-wife and I separated.  Some of the magic from before was just gone and I didn't know if I'd ever feel the same way again.

This is something you'll have to work through, day by day, and see if you can get past it.  Again, there are many "pros" that weren't there before and that's a reason for hope.  But you also know yourself and her better than any of us.

Do you think this could be something you could work past in time?  Or is the unsettling feelings just too strong?