Help with custody trial

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all. I’ve been divorced for about 5 years now, this community helped me muster the courage to do it, so thanks.

Might go to court to get custody of our child. Anyone who has been through a custody trial here that can help me out? Answer some questions and give some advice?

Thanks

[MrManager]

Hi all. I’ve been divorced for about 5 years now, this community helped me muster the courage to do it, so thanks.

Might go to court to get custody of our child. Anyone who has been through a custody trial here that can help me out? Answer some questions and give some advice?

Thanks

[ForeverDad]

Quite a few of us have been through that wringer.  From what has been reported, most of our female ex's (and some male ex's) are overly attached to the children, unusually possessive and thus going back to family court to fix the court order is a challenge.  A few basics:

• Court is more like to act if the interests of the child are the focus.  Court is less concerned with the conflict between the parents.
• Courts expect bickering and assume both parents are at fault.  Try to show the difference, that you are proposing solutions, not the one fomenting divisive conflict and obstruction.
• Often the court will assume the child is used to the existing order.*
• Stick to documentation and provable facts.  Unsubstantiated claims will be viewed as "he said... she said..." hearsay and largely set aside.
• Courts generally ignore allegations older than six months, though perhaps may be acceptable to argue a pattern of behavior.
• Expect delays and continuances but try to move the case along.
• Be clear and concise.  Hearings are quite brief so focus on the most important issues first. **

* In my case, the court did make minimal changes each time back in court but was unwilling to order major adjustments.  My lawyer said it was because the court didn't want to shock the child.  My response was to say it was more shocking not to make substantial changes.  My temp orders started with my ex having temp custody and I had temp alternate weekends.  The final decree two years later was Shared Custody and equal time.  It took six more long years to get an order that worked... when I had both full custody (guardianship) and majority time.  Eight years in all to fix what was obvious within months of our separation.

** At one hearing I had prepared a list of all the issues, grouped by topic.  Only a few of the issues out of a dozen were even discussed before the hearing ended.  My mistake was I didn't list the more crucial issues first.

[kells76]

Glad you reached out again -- we're still here 

Can you remind us:

How old is your child?

What's the current parenting time schedule?

What's the current legal custody arrangement?

Do you already have a lawyer?

Any recent change(s) in circumstances?

[SuperDaddy]

Hi MrManager ,

I have checked your previous messages. You didn't express much about your concerns regarding child custody. I see you said your ex-wife "has threatened a few times to take the kid and move out of state." But I think the courts will need objective evidence that your kid feels safe with you and not with his other mom. So unless you have evidence of child abuse, I think it will all be about the socio-psychological evaluation that some professional does with each member of both families. Otherwise, it should be balanced. But if your kid is already attending school, you can use the school to do all permutations so that you don't have to meet your ex (perhaps only on school vacations). That means one day you leave at school and she gets to school, and another day it is vice versa.

[ForeverDad]

Any recent change(s) in circumstances?

There is a legal process that likely your lawyer can explain more thoroughly than I can.  The short explanation is that once a final decree is made then the court order - custody and parenting details - is considered the final one.

That is why our collective wisdom in peer support is that we more reasonably normal parents need to seek the best (or least bad) initial temp order and the same for the final decree's adjustments.  The best for our children, which of course means the best for the reasonably normal parent.  We still have to deal with the disordered parent but that's less of a priority.

But the other parent is still disordered.  And no order works perfectly over time no matter how had we try.  The way to make a subsequent change in the USA is to file for Change of Circumstances.  To make a major change of custody is a big deal, legally speaking.  Basically it says that the existing order is unworkable, why you need a greater amount of legal authority in custody and/or the parenting schedule and solutions you propose to improve a new order.

In my case we had already made use of a child psychiatrist who was the evaluator in our Custody Evaluation.  For my Change of Circumstances we used a Guardian ad Litem, a child's advocate.  Ours was a respected GAL, I was fortunate since some claiming to be GALs may be new lawyers inexperienced with resolving the parent/child relationships.

However, I noticed that my GAL and the judge tried to play both sides, so neither of us won but neither lost either.  At the time we each had equal custody and equal parenting time.  I had filed for custody as well as majority parenting time.  Well, I gained custody (guardianship) but my ex didn't lose equal parenting time.  The GAL explained it would allow ex to continue getting child support.

It still wasn't a fix but it was better.  My authority, previously disrespected and obstructed, was a bit more clearly defined.  A couple years later, after her disparagement and playing games with exchanges continued, I went back to court and got majority parenting schedule too.

[MrManager]

Thanks so much for responding. Let's see if I can tag and respond...

  @Kells76 Yes. My lawyer has talked to me about changes in circumstances and how that would be a good approach. And I def want a GAL. I want someone solely on my kids side. Can you please tell me more about your experience with a GAL? Like would I be able to request that the GAL speak to my kids current and previous teachers? My kid is in therapy and has been for a little over a year at this point. Would the GAL be able to speak with my kids therapist? And I think a custody eval would be useful too. Would you mind telling me more about your experience with that? I petitioned for custody and majority parenting time too.
My child is 6. 50/50  custody and legal. Yes I have a lawyer (same one that helped me get out). Changes to circumstances- the custody decree has always been a disaster. My ex picks and chooses what to follow and what not to follow, is horrible at communication (withholding info, not responding to emails for long periods of time or not at all, makes unilateral decisions...goes on).

 @SuperDaddy We divorced years ago and at the time of those posts I was concerned that my ex would leave the state with our child. Also, it was during the pandemic, I was deep in an abusive relationship and trying to get out (a lot more nuance and context for all of that). Socio-psychological evaluation...I will look into this but would appreciate anything you know about this.

 @ForeverDad Excellent list, thank you! Follow up questions- I have been documenting since hiring a divorce lawyer. What is the best way to organize my documentation to get the court to really look and consider it? And it is good to know about the 6 month thing, but I think with what I have it would for sure be helpful in showing patterns that are not in our child's best interest. Any advice on pointing out those patterns?
Congrats on the final outcome! 6 years is a very long time, you did it! That gives me hope. I feel like I have SO MUCH documentation. Any advice on ranking topics by importance?

Thank you all so much. If you know of any people or resources that might be able to help me please let me know! And if there is any other info from me about my situation that you think might help you better understand or advise- please ask.
Thank you thank you thank you

[ForeverDad]

One thing that surprised me was how much the court gave weight and attention to the school teachers' input, in one way more than what I reported.

In that last hearing it covered two entire days.  I think the court wanted to be done with us.  And this time around the GAL wasn't playing neutral footsie with my ex anymore.

I played nearly 9 or 10 recordings I made for exchanges where my ex disparaged me and played games.  Actually, I had to play them twice, once for me to testify to the dates and times, then once for her to state she didn't remember but it was her voice.  One was in the middle of summer break.  I got off work early before my Independence Day holiday so I called and offered to go where my ex worked and pick our son.  She said no, it was her time until 6 pm.  So I drove past the exit and went home.  A couple hours later I went to the exchange location and waited but she never showed up.  I called and she said to come get him.  I said , No, I'm not going there, I'm at the exchange location.  She didn't come so I called the police to document it.  The officer read my court order (I always kept extra copies in my car) and called her.  Oh yes, she listened then, to the officer, but not to me.

Even the GAL questioned her and the GAL stated she lied.

I provided a printout of the school's prior year's tardy list.  Out of 21 tardies, 19 were on her scheduled parenting time.  Then a couple teachers testified about his 5th grade overnight school-sponsored trip to a local kid's camp.  I had signed approval as custodial parent but she said it was her time and went to fetch him that evening from the camp.  The teachers downplayed the details but she clearly made a scene in front of everyone and ruined his outing.

After waiting a few weeks, the written order arrived.  (1) She was lambasted for "disparaging" me in the presence of our son, by then a preteen.  (2) The court stated she needed counseling but didn't order it.  (3) I got my requested majority time but only during the school year.  She was entitled and misbehaving year-round but I was awarded majority time during the school year but ex got to keep equal time during the summers.  In that way I sensed school was more on the magistrate's mind than what I had to live with the entire year, each year.

So don't ignore the input from the school, both counselors as well as teachers.  It can be more impactful than you may expect.

Also, most counselors and therapists make the parents sign that the professionals won't be dragged into court either to testify, be sued or complaints made to their licensing boards.  However, these same professionals will freely consult with the assigned Custody Evaluators, GALs, etc since then those professionals can use that information to submit their own informed conclusions and recommendations.  Yes, I've "been there, done that".

About selecting a GAL... be aware that they can be experienced or inexperienced, just like lawyers, counselors and other professionals.  Try your best to select one experienced, respected by the court and able to see through the false face the disordered parent will put on display.

[GaGrl]

So...based on what you say your communication issues are, and how ForeverDad describes his custody hearing, you might want to :

1) Contact the school for records of tardiness and go back and see if this is a valid point for you to usr.

2) Go back through your documentation and see if you can quantify a) the number of times she has ignored to custody order, and/or b) significantly delayed important communications.

For anything you can quantify, create a cover sheet that summarizes the issue ("Child was tardy XX times over two semesters; XX-2 of the factors were  on mother's time."), then place th summary on top of the supporting docs. The judge will appreciate the summary. You'll need three copies -- judge, you, mother.

Any ideas on how to cluster items from all your documentation? We might be able to give feedback.

[ForeverDad]

My lawyer was a bit of a fly-by-your-pants in the courtroom.  So I tried to prepare as best I could but, inexperienced me, I could never predict what he  would choose to jump upon.

The two year separation/divorce had been final for about a year with Shared Parenting and equal time but ex was still too entitled and manipulating the order to reinterpret it to create loopholes.  I filed for custody and majority time using the Change of Circumstances process.  At one point in the hearing while my ex was giving testimony the magistrate actually cradled his head on his arms on the desk.  I think it was where she was trying to explain why she tried to void my vacation notice for the week between Christmas and New Year's Day.  She claimed she wanted to observe Kwanzaa and when my lawyer asked what it was she said it had candles and she wanted to observe Kwanzaa even though she wasn't of Jewish descent.  Her lawyer was speechless, realizing she she didn't even realize it instead involved African descent, until the third time my lawyer asked her for more details about that Jewish holiday at which point it was objected as already answered.  My lawyer had the biggest grin.

The decision stated that I had sufficient basis to proceed.  One paragraph noted that her testimony was "not credible".  Another paragraph briefly mentioned she had made an allegation that I'd tried to strangle her years before when we were married, however no one had queried me about it and it was evidently included for thoroughness but otherwise ignored.