Father of Adult Daughter with BPD

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

Hello,

My adult daughter has pretty much shown all of the BPD traits, which started in her late teens. At the time, I was in the military and dealing with my own struggles so I passed it off as typical teenage BS.

I’m now in my 60s, have remarried (15 years ago), live in a different state, and have been estranged from her and her son for four years.

Looking back now, it’s quite clear that she has BPD and that I had no clue therefore most interactions with her did not go well!

I want very much to have a relationship with my daughter and grandson so anything I can learn to move in that direction would be appreciated.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[In4thewin]

Hi Mitt. Was there something in particular that happened/was said leading to your estrangement? Some additional information might be helpful to others in providing you with advice.

[Sancho]

Hi Great-Lakes-Mitt and welcome
Your position is different in that you have been no contact for quite some time and live a fair distance from your DD and GS. Do you have any information on how DD is going at the moment -why I ask is that for some people with BPD, the symptoms can lessen, while for others that is not really the case.

So I think first step would be to try to find out how your DD is travelling at the moment if you don't already know. Is that possible. It makes a huge difference as to how you move forward for many different reasons: it might open the door to considerable problems for you and it might trigger your DD's intense sense of abandonment which she may be coping okay with.

Is there any contact at all that you have kept up over the years eg Christmas/birthday and if so how has that gone? Sorry for all the questions!

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

The main issue that caused the estrangement was getting remarried. I have three adult children from my first marriage. Two of the three have accepted that I remarried. My BPD daughter has never accepted it.

For many years after remarriage she was willing to have a relationship with me as long as I did not mention my wife or her children. My current wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and  ended up getting a lumpectomy, radiation, and hormone therapy. She finished the treatments and appeared to be cancer free. Halfway through her treatment my BPD daughter stated she wished my wife had died… needless to say, our relationship suffered.

Four years ago, my therapist suggested that I write a letter to let her know I was willing to have a relationship but it would need to include recognition that I have a wife and would include her and her family in conversations when appropriate.

She took that as an ultimatum and ended our relationship (in a very ugly way).

I tried to continue sending birthday and holiday cards to my grandson (her child) for about six months and she informed me that he was not getting the cards because she was throwing them away and to stop sending cards.

About two years ago, my wife’s cancer returned and she ended up having a double mastectomy, a hysterectomy, and is currently on hormone therapy for another two or three years. I have not shared this with my BPD daughter (although I’m sure she knows) because her original desire for my wife to die still hurts deeply).

Despite the hurt, I recently reached out to her to let her know I was visiting her siblings and would like to see her and her son. She never responded but told her mother (my ex wife) that she had no desire to see me.

Hopefully this information answers the questions.asked.

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

Regarding how my BPD daughter is doing now, I can only share what has been shared with me by her siblings and mother.

She has been seeing the same therapist for several years who basically suggests she remove herself from any negative relationship (rather than work on improving it). I believe she stays with this therapist because the therapist tells her what she wants to hear, not what she needs to hear.

She has been through several toxic relationships with men since her teenage years and has divorced once. She has attempted suicide several times, usually in response to some interaction with a boyfriend.

Any suggestion that she may be BPD or anything remotely close to mental illness is met with a very emotional and aggressive response.

That’s what has been shared with me and my perceptions on where she is mentally at this time.

[CC43]

Hi Mitt,

I'm sorry you're in such a tough spot.  Having to deal with a child with undiagnosed BPD while in the military must have been rough.  And now, your wife has been seriously ill.  It does seem like your BPD daughter hasn't accepted you marrying someone else, though her own mom is still in the picture and it's been 15 years.  Alas, pwBPD tend to hold onto grudges as if their life depends on it.  That actually may be the case, because they've created a narrative--an entire identity--around being victimized by "toxic" family members and boyfriends.

I wish I could say that things might get better between you and your daughter, but right now it seems she's determined not to have a relationship with you.  That may be her very misguided way of "punishing" you for "abandoning" her and marrying someone else.  If you spend some time reading these boards, you'll see that it's common for pwBPD to withhold contact with grandkids, as a form of control and/or punishment.  You'll also see that abandonment is a key trigger for pwBPD.

I guess the bright side is that you can keep tabs on your daughter and grandson through other members of the family.  Maybe they would be able to sense if there were any thawing of her feelings towards you, and that would be an opening to a potential reconciliation.  I guess if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't write letters, but I probably would continue to send her holiday and birthday cards, just standard ones with the normal greetings, so that she knows you still think about her and "include" her.  But I wouldn't expect any reply until she's ready, and I wouldn't be surprised if she threw out the cards without even opening them.  As for your grandchild, your daughter has asked you not to send him anything, not even cards, so my inclination would be to respect her wishes.  Nevertheless, I might suggest that you think about writing letters to your grandson (and maybe seeding a college fund), but holding them aside until your grandson reaches adulthood.

I'd also mention that in my experience with pwBPD/NPD, an illness can be triggering for them.  I suppose that's because attention is temporarily diverted away from them, and they might feel "abandoned" again, as well as worried that time/resources/concern/attention are being diverted away from them.  It's also possible that, because they are highly emotionally reactive, they feed on any negative emotions associated with illness--the pain, the stress, the uncertainty--it's highly unsettling for everyone, but super-sized for them.

I'll wrap up by saying that BPD isn't your fault, no matter how much your daughter tries to convince you otherwise.  I think many parents on these boards feel tremendous guilt, along with despair and grief.  I think you can let go of the guilt part.

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

Hi CC43,

Thank for your information and recommendations!

I especially like the idea of writing letters to my grandson and waiting to give them to him when he reaches adulthood. I thought about doing that with birthday and seasonal cards but letters sound more personal.

[js friend]

Hi Mitt.

I think that writing letters but not sending them is a good idea whenever you feel the need.

I have written a few to my gc over the 5 yrs of estrangement which has helped me as a form of  emotional release.  I also sent birthday cards up until last year but always had a gut feeling deep down that they would never receive them which has been recently confirmed, but at the time I made sure to take pictures of each one before sending them as proof down the line if the gc were ever curious in the future that they were never forgotten.

It would be nice to have your gc in your life to get to know him as young children are so healing in many ways but it doesnt sound like your udd is open to this line of thinking and is using your gc as a pawn to punish you as my udd also does.

Your dd is thinking about her own immediate needs and she doesnt have the ability to provide the empathy and moral support and it will always be all about her especially if she sticks with a therapist who never challenges her thinking.

Your dd will carry too much resentment if you try to include her even if it is only on an emotional level. She will probably resent the way you look after your wife, the  amount of attention you give her, the amount of appointments you attend with her, the amount of times you speak about her...etc. I may actually be irritating to her so I think that it is better to  just focus on your wife right now as i think building bridges with your dd at this moment in time is just likely to cause you all further stress.

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

JS Friend:Thank you for that because it is exactly what I am doing. Focusing on my wife and her journey.

[Mutt]

This sounds like a painful and complicated place to be, especially with so much history and distance involved. Sometimes the most caring thing we can do is focus on what we can hold steady, rather than trying to repair what isn’t open right now.

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

As mentioned in my previous post, I texted my BPD daughter to let her know I would be visiting in March and would like to see her and her son. I texted her mid January. I just got a reply today:
(From BPD daughter)
“Was thinking whether I even wanted to respond to this but I feel like it’s important to point out how weird it is after hearing NOTHING from you all this time that I’d jump at some opportunity to see you in person. It’s just weird. I want nothing to do with an abusive, sexist and racist person. Who also raised a son who’s exactly the same. I’m good but yall have so much fun. I’m sure you’ll be able to check the box of “seeing my kids” even though we ALL know it’s not cause you genuinely want to. Have fun with your new family and their grandkids though.

Wolf [BPD’s son] doesn’t even remember you and that’s how it will stay.

Have a good one.

Oh and also it’s real great you’ve support Nicole’s dumb ass and talked PLEASE READ about your own kids to her. She’s a psycho bitch. But again, have fun. Your loyalty is just so cool! But considering you’re a cheater why would I be surprised you’re not loyal to your own kids either.”

So I guess I will be visiting with two of my three kids in March.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mutt]

That’s a lot to take in, and I can see why holding steady matters right now. Focusing on the relationships that are open to you sounds like a grounded way to move forward.

[CC43]

(From BPD daughter)
“Was thinking whether I even wanted to respond to this but . . . .I want nothing to do with an abusive, sexist and racist person. Who also raised a son who’s exactly the same. I’m good but yall have so much fun. I’m sure you’ll be able to check the box of “seeing my kids” even though we ALL know it’s not cause you genuinely want to. Have fun with your new family and their grandkids though.

Wolf [BPD’s son] doesn’t even remember you and that’s how it will stay.

Oh and also it’s real great you’ve support Nicole’s dumb ass and talked PLEASE READ about your own kids to her. She’s a psycho bitch. But again, have fun. Your loyalty is just so cool! But considering you’re a cheater why would I be surprised you’re not loyal to your own kids either.”

I guess it's no surprise to me to read that you're estranged daughter is projecting ill intent onto you--calling you abusive, sexist and racist.  If these accusations seem absurd, it's probably because they are--she's just trying to push your buttons, trying to hurt you while unleashing her anger in the process.  The same goes for insulting "Nicole," calling her dumb and psycho.  Given that Nicole is the same gender as your daughter, I suspect that your daughter thinks she herself is dumb and psycho, and thus these are "pure" projections.

Anyway the underlying theme to me seems to be one of perceived abandonment.  It seems to me your daughter is hurting because she perceives you are having "fun" with your "new" family, while she feels left out, probably usurped by "Nicole."  She thinks you aren't being "loyal" to her.  I think she demands that all your attention be devoted to her, and since she's not having her insatiable needs met, she feels abandoned--even though she has her own nuclear family now.  It sounds like she's "stuck" in a childish rut, mad that her dad pays attention to anyone else in the world.  She doesn't care if you're happy, have a stable marriage and can support yourself in retirement.  She admits she's keeping her son away from you and makes it sound like it's a punishment.

The message is ironic, because while your daughter states she wants nothing to do with you, if she really wanted that, she probably wouldn't have responded at all, or if she had felt compelled to respond, she would have written something shorter and colder like, Please leave me alone.  My thinking is that she only wants you in her life so that she can continue to blame you and unleash her anger onto you.  Does that sound about right?  My guess is that she is generating a victim narrative out of the relationship:  You are the abusive dad who abandoned her and treats her like crap, and she is the poor victim of endless traumas.  In order for that narrative to remain intact, she has to continue to treat you and your wife like you are toxic, even if you are the opposite.

I'm sorry but it seems to me like she's not ready to reconcile; all she's ready for is to lash out at you.

[js friend]

Hi again.

Your dd's  anger prevents her hearing anything you have to say which has been pretty much much been my experience too.

Im so sorry 

[CG4ME]

Sorry you're going through this.  It is painful to be on the receiving end of someones anger when there is very limited to no ability to repair, which requires both sides to be willing to take accountability.  She is an adult making her own choices and unfortunately she doesn't see the long term impact those choices will have on her life and others around her.  I like your idea about the letters.  Do it.  Using grandchildren as pawns is hurtful and abusive.  She is denying her children an authentically loving relationship with their grandfather. 

[Great-Lakes-Mitt]

Hi js friend. I am sorry you are going through this too. It’s exhausting. So many emotions. I’ve been up since 2:30 AM.

CG4ME and Mutt: Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.

CC43, You are totally on target in your assessment!! The root cause of everything she is unloading about centers on her feelings of abandonment. I recall shortly after my divorce, she made the statement “I want you to marry mom again…”

It’s been over 15 years and I don’t believe she’s ever accepted my divorce and remarriage.

Everyone involved has moved on but her.

[CC43]

Hi again Mitt,

I guess I can relate to the situation because I married my husband when his children were college-age.  Even though he had been divorced from his ex for 15 years when he remarried, his daughters, one in particular, didn't accept it.  She exhibited all sorts of jealous behavior, often acting like SHE was trying to be the wife.  She'd encroach on my space, for example by using the master bathroom (and leaving her telltale "signature" of human waste) instead of her own bathroom, or by putting her things in my closet.  She'd try to cuddle with her dad in what I thought was an inappropriate way.  Most of all, she'd talk/call/text him excessively (seeming way too needy given her age), stage "dramas" and act out.  All this culminated in her withdrawing from college and MOVING IN with us full-time.  She even fake-fainted during our marriage ceremony, joking shortly afterwards, "I must have been trying to be the center of attention."  Yes indeed.

Anyway, eventually she did seem to grow out of it, but it took around three tension-filled, boundary-testing years.  The turning point was when she started having her OWN life.  By then, the idea of living with dad and stepmom as if still a teenager had grown old, as it seemed too immature and downright boring.  (I think it's not normal for a 20-something to be living with parents, sleeping all day while not being engaged with studies, internships, training or volunteering).  And I think that by then, she had matured and gradually understood that her dad deserved to have a life too.  At the end of the day, I think it was peer pressure that pulled her out of this stage.  Her friends from college had moved on, whereas she had been "stuck" living with her dad and stepmom like a young teenager?  Since her personality is active and extroverted, she got bored and moved on, eventually accepting that her dad remarried.

The other daughter however was diagnosed with BPD.  Unlike her sister, she didn't seem to take her dad's remarriage as overt "abandonment."  Her personality is more avoidant, passive-aggressive and ENTITLED.  Though she probably thinks she has "empathy," deep down I think she doesn't consider anyone else's point of view, not one bit.  I think her underlying resentment is over financial resources and "fun."  So if her dad and I try to go on a vacation, after working hard at our jobs all year and saving up for it, she would "ruin" it for us, one way or another, by fabricating some sort of crisis.  It doesn't feel like it's because she fears abandonment, because she has gone through various periods of extrangement from her dad.  I think it feels more spiteful.  It's like she's saying, she's miserable and wants us to be miserable too.  It's like she's saying, How dare you spend money on vacation, you should be spending that money on ME.  It's like she believes her dad doesn't have a right to a life or happiness, because she holds him responsible for all her past "traumas" and all her own poor choices.  It's almost like she twists facts and creates drama in order to weave a narrative of, My family abused and traumatized me, I'll show them, they don't deserve to be happy.  Does that make sense in your case?  Maybe your case mixes a bit of everything--feelings of abandonment, resentment and spite.

[Pook075]

Hi Mitt and welcome to the family.

I've began experiencing something similar with my BPD daughter this past year.  My kid has been serious about treatment for a few years now, so she's better...but she's clearly still mentally ill.

Long story short, I divorced her BPD mom a few years ago and eventually moved overseas to remarry.  We're waiting on the visa process to bring my new wife and her son back to the USA, so I've had a long-distance relationship with my two daughters for the past year and a half.  With one kid, we've become a lot closer and we talk/text all the time.

With the BPD kid, she tells everyone how I only care about my new son and how I do things with him that I never did with my other kids.  That's not true, mind you, the boy hides in his room playing video games on his phone.  But the reality doesn't matter because in time, the narrative has become how I have abandoned my kids to live my best life with a new family. 

The part where "my family" had almost nothing to do with me after their mom had an affair is somehow forgotten.  I think the old saying is true though, distance makes the heart grow fonder.  And for BPDs, that means mass jealousy and projection so they can always remain the victim in any circumstance.

Because of the distance, there's only so much I can do to overcome that since I'm on the opposite side of the world.  The flights are like 24-30 hours each way and it takes days to adjust to the jetlag, so I only return home maybe once a year. 

For now, I've accepted that my BPD kid is not going to be pleasant.  I don't reach out very often, and if she's angry at the world I don't push the conversations.  I will answer whenever she calls though and I'll help her however I can.  It has to be a real relationship though and if she only calls to rant, I'll find an excuse to get off the phone quickly.

In your specific situation, I think you have two plays.

One, remain no contact and wait for the pendulum to swing your way.  Eventually mom will do something so horrific, your BPD kid will paint her black and try to get her dad back....if for nothing else, to have someone to talk about how horrible mom is.  I don't play that game, mind you, but it always seems to get to that point eventually.

Two, continue to reach out to your daughter on holidays, birthdays, etc.  Sending a letter or email costs nothing and even though it might anger her...who cares.  The only goal is to show that you do want a relationship and you're making an effort.  In time, it would make a difference.

If you take option #2, make the letter about your life (which includes your current wife).  Don't talk about the previous fights, don't talk about BPD, don't talk about anything that has to do with your daughter other than a general "I hope everyone is doing well and I think about you often."  I wouldn't even say, "I hope to see you soon" or something like that because she'll twist it to being manipulation.

One last thing, she replied to your text...I think it was a text.  She was ugly and hurtful, which is par for the course since she feels abandoned and unloved.  So she lashed out and took cheap shots.  But the important part is that she did reply and did try to be gracious (before completely going off the rails).  That alone is progress, it's a starting point.