Work from home

[dtkm]

Ugh, it’s been a rough day!  As background, my uBPDh  currently lives at both our house and a townhouse that is actually one of our rental properties. 2 weeks ago, he would stay at the townhouse and only come over on Tuesday and Thursday to pick our s7 from school since I was at work. If he was in a good mood he would stay the night, for however long that lasted and would leave when he was in a bad mood…that could be a day or a week.  Over winter break there was a fire at our kids school making it so they had to go to a different school. My h works full time from home, I work part time as well as 2 PRN positions.  My h has decided that I need to work more, so he just doesn’t pay for anything any longer, until he is in a good mood and then he pays for everything for that time period, meaning dinner, groceries stuff like that, I still get left with all of the house bills.  So I picked up the 2 prn positions as I can’t afford life right now. But…of course he doesn’t like it when I leave for work, accuses me of having affair after affair at work, etc and makes it close to impossible for me to work. There has been numerous times that he has backed out watching the kids with less than 12 hours before I have to work or he makes it so that it’s miserable for me to leave saying “have fun with you man” etc or freaking out making it so he knows I won’t leave my kids at home with him as they are all afraid. . I finally found a babysitter that can come to our house and is willing to pick our d5 up from school and our s7. Meaning, he could sleepover when he is in a good mood, take the kids to school, then he can go to his townhome to work, let the babysitter pick the kids up from school and babysit until I get home from work then he can come back over once he finishes work and be a part of our lives, dinner, sports, all activities. Instead, he told me today, that he is going to work from our house and be at the house when the babysitter is there, which I specifically told him no to earlier…and he agreed!  Now, he wants to take the kids to school, go to the gym come back to the house to work, pick our d5 up and bring her back to the house where the babysitter will watch her while he works there. Then the babysitter will leave when he picks out s7 up from school and then he will leave when I get home and then come back at 10pm in the night and do it all over again. It makes no sense!  But he is so dead set that this is an amazing idea, and just keeps telling me that I am not being considerate of his time, as he doesn’t have time to drive back to his townhouse to work so must stay to work at our house. If he was a normal person, that would e fine, but since he is not, I am sure this will be used as control. He has done this before and ended up getting fired from his job and the babysitter quit in 2 weeks!  How do I point this out to him that this is a horrible idea!  His comments are so far from reality that I had to tell him that we needed to end the conversation for the time being and refuse to it when we could do so productively. I just want to scream right now!!! 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi dtkm ,

I think your negotiations with him will only work out if you are in a position in which you can confidently say "NO." Since he has free access to your house, you are not in this position anymore. As a result, you will get stressed out, and then there will be no way to have a productive conversation with him since he will pick up on your emotions. Living in separate houses is not much of an advantage in this situation.

I finally convinced my wife to leave, so we are living apart now. She is in her mom's house, where she lived before we met. I would like to bring her in for the weekends, but I am quite scared about that going wrong, so I won't do that. Not until we are really having zero conflict and she is 100% ok with the fact that this is MY place now and that everything here is my property. Currently, she still has minor angry moments and does mild offenses, which I'm always pointing out.

So I think you are giving away a setting that could be quite valuable and constructive for your relationship, the living-apart structure.

If he says that your place is better than his place, maybe you can offer an exchange. If he wants more time with the kids, give him that time. Make sure he doesn't have a good reason to say this new setting is unfair to him.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I understand that your relationship with your husband has you wanting to scream out of frustration and unnecessary stress.  If I read between the lines, I see that you have had to take on some additional part-time work to pay the bills.  I see thay your partner considers bill paying to be optional, only when he's in the right mood.  I also see that your partner wants to come and go as he pleases--not according to any schedule, and regardless of whether it's convenient for you or the other members of your family.  I see that his employment situation appears to be precarious, as he's lost a job in the past, and he seems OK with working in a suboptimal situation (such as in your home while he has kids to look after--which means he's probably not getting much work done). 

It sounds to me that, at the end of the day, your partner is unreliable.  It's very likely that his BPD is contributing to his unreliability, as his volatile emotions hijack his thinking and day-to-day functioning.  The people in my life with BPD and NPD are similarly unrealiable.  Though they appear able to "pull themselves together" when they want to, they are not consistent and have the sorts of problems you write about--getting fired, missing payments, cancelling at the last minute or simply not showing up, without notice.  They have a million excuses--feeling unwell, oversleeping, forgetting, not being reminded, car trouble, lost keys, too much traffic, the phone was turned off--but the record shows that they are unreliable too much of the time.  I'm not talking about occasionally running late from over-scheduling, or missing an appointment once a year.  It's pervasive, and you can recall off the top of your head several instances under-performance in recent history.  The only predictability is his unpredictability, correct?

Meanwhile, you have been reeling from trying to accommodate your husband's whims.  I guess my advice is, you need to plan on him being unreliable.  He just can't be relied upon to drop off or pick up kids at school, and you can't afford to leave your little ones stranded.  He can't be relied upon to babysit every day.  He can't be relied upon to pay your living expenses.  Once you except that reality, you can go from there.  I think you have already, sort of, because you've arranged for a babysitter.  I'd say, keep the babysitter.  If your partner hangs out at the house all day, fine.  If he picks up kids from school from time to time, fine.  If he decides to pay a bill, great--better late than never.  But you can rest easier knowing that the babysitter will be there, the primary caregiver whenever on duty.  You could frame it that way to your husband:  "I know that you're working hard, so I've arranged for a babysitter.  That way, you can concentrate on work when you need to, and you can get some me-time when you need it as well."  I guess my point is to frame the babysitter as being about HIM.

If your partner complains that you're working too much, I think you should ignore him.  After all, he isn't helping out enough, and you have to take charge and take care of yourself and the kids.  The thing is, if he's throwing a fit or making false accusations about you seeing another man, I think that's yelling/disparagement in front of the kids.  If you do what he asks and stay home to assuage him and to "prove" you're not seeing another man, you're basically rewarding your partner when he acts out and makes false accusations.  In his mind, doing what he demands of you might only "prove" your guilt and feed his delusions even more!  I might suggest taking a harder line and say, "That's not true and you know it.  I won't let you disrespect/disparage me in front of the kids.  You can leave now."  If he won't leave, then maybe I'd take the kids out of the house, for a walk or to run an errand.  I don't think it's good for them to hear their dad speak to their mom this way.  The boundary is, when he does this, you ask him to leave, or you leave yourself.

[SuperDaddy]

One more thing...

In the US and most countries, you can request child support without divorcing or legally separating, because child support is a right of the child, not of the spouse, and it can be ordered while the parents remain married and living apart.

The usual procedural vehicle is a standalone child support action, sometimes called a support petition or petition for child support, filed in family court, often alongside or independent from a domestic violence protective order. The court will apply state child support guidelines based on incomes and custody time.

Note that the probation status or domestic violence findings do not suspend the obligation to pay.

I know a couple who were married and both worked, but he had a severe issue with gambling, so he would spend all of the money. Because of that, she got a court order to get 80% of his income transferred directly to her account. And they lived together until his death from Parkinson's disease. I'm sharing this for you to understand that the courts will interfere when there is a financial problem affecting the kids. I guess in this specific case they would interfere even if they had no kids. They just need the proofs.

[SuperDaddy]

I thought about some hypothesis on why does he want to work from home while the baby sitter is present:

1) Baby sitters are expensive and some people have a hard time trusting them, especially if kids are small. If my wife said she wanted to hire a baby sitter and I had the option of working from home, I would also be inclined to work from home to say with the kids. For my work it's not a problem at all.

2) Another possibilty is that hiring a baby sitter is being seen as you getting total independence from him, which could trigger his abandonment fears. If that is the case, then one possible workaround would be you to add some dependence, such as asking him to pay the baby sitter, and perhaps to watch the baby sitter from the camera.

3) Or would he be afraid that you could bring someone else to your place instead of a baby sitter?

4) Hopefully, it's not him wanting to flirt with the baby sitter. Well that's a ridiculous hipothesis but just saying.

[dtkm]

Thank you both, as you have both hit the nail on the head with your comments. SuperDaddy, it is for reasons 1 and 2. He is strangely over protective of “his” kids. He doesn’t want them going out with my family even if my other kids are going and “his” kids are begging him to go, he doesn’t acknowledge that they have friends and my kids only see their friends when I set things up without him being aware of it, and if “his” kids are hanging out with my other kids friends at our house he will tell the friends that “his” kids are fine playing with “his” other kids, even though that’s not what they want. His perfect day in a deregulated state is him having his 3 kids alone at “his” place, but only after he gets back from the gym, him sitting on the couch watching tv, while my stepdaughter takes care of our 2 kids. And he wants that because he knows that that makes me upset!  Which brings me to the second reasoning you mentioned. He doesn’t this to make me mad. There have been several instances where he has chosen the move that makes me mad over choosing the move that would allow him to be a part of the kids more which is what he states he wants. I am a very independent woman and I know that bugs him, but when I try to lean on him, 75% of the time, he dysregulates  and then I am left to figure it out on my own in a big pinch. So I try to show that I am relying on him, but always have a back up plan in place. Which doesn’t teach him anything because he never feels the repercussions of his backing out.

[dtkm]

CC, you nailed it in the head as well!  I have worked very hard over the years on accepting that this is who he is. I do my best to not take it personally and try really hard to realize this has nothing to do with me. What gets me, is the forever wanting to “get me” when deregulated and the knowledge that whatever is set up for this week will not work next week!  Having 5 kids, 2 of which need someone at home with them, this is my biggest issue right now. I have to work to pay for everything since he won’t pay for anything. But last week he wanted to be around the kids 24/7, when I text him to confirm the plan for the week this week, he responded “when will the kids be at my place” which is his standard line recently as I have already told him I am not comfortable with that. So I am attempting to set up full coverage for the week, but…knowing him if I just set up full coverage for the rest of the school year, in the past he has just shown up early to pick up our daughter leaving our babysitter wondering what is going on, or he has worked from home with the babysitter at the house our daughter was in a clingy mood and wouldn’t leave him alone while he was working, I don’t know what happened but after that day he got fired and the babysitter quit…he told me he forgot to put his phone on mute and his coworkers heard him “trying to calm” our daughter….so this is where I get stuck. I can set up plans, but he ruins them every time! Part of why he ruins them is because I think deep down he doesn’t want me to work and have a way to pay for things, but if it wasn’t for me, we would be living out on the streets! Seriously!

[SuperDaddy]

Hi dtkm ,

Please check this other thread of mine and comment on it if you wish. I'm hoping something there is helpful for you.

[CC43]

Part of why he ruins them is because I think deep down he doesn’t want me to work and have a way to pay for things, but if it wasn’t for me, we would be living out on the streets! Seriously!

OK, here is my read:  Your husband probably doesn't want you to work because (#1) he wants you available to serve him and shower him with attention.  When you work, he might feel you are "abandoning" him.  But even when you are at home, he'll probably ignore you most of the time . . . he just wants you to be available, on call.  Does that sound about right?  I think that's  reflects the the "abandonment" fears of BPD, because deep down he's really insecure.  He feels like he's competing with your job for your attention.

But here's my other guess: (#2) he doesn't like the fact that you're earning money, because you are upstaging him.  He probably thinks the man should be the provider, and so your employment might feel emasculating to him.  Again, this hits the emotional insecurity side of BPD.

A related issue (#3) is when you work and earn money, you are basically "reminding" your husband that he's probably not working hard enough himself.  In a bizarre way, when you work, you're making him feel bad, just by comparison.  He feels bad enough as it is, and you are "rubbing it in" when you work.

Additionally, (#4) he wants your money, and for you to pay the bills, but he doesn't want to be reminded of everything you pay for, because it makes him feel inferior.  Besides, anything you pay for doesn't "count" in his household accounting.  I bet he thinks he pays for most "everything," because he's basically in denial about what you pay for, and he really only values what he pays for.  The only cash outflow he appreciates is what comes out of his own pocket.  Let me guess, does he go on an on about paying a small bill, while ignoring/"discounting" all the other bills you covered in the last month/year?  Does that sound about right?

Finally (#5) he's uber controlling, probably because he feels a lack of control over his own life.  He wants to tell you not to work, not to hire a babysitter, and he wants to come and go as he pleases--but not reciprocate.  He wants to decide and barely gives you input.  Let me guess, he has all sorts of rules for you which don't apply for him.  He can do anything he wants, but he expects you to do everything he wants too.  Does that sound about right? 

All this creates a huge cognitive dissonance--him wanting to have more money, but not acknowledge where it's coming from, and refusing to pay bills in the hopes that they'll just disappear (because you pay for them yourself), all in a vain attempt to maintain a delusion that he's in control and doing all the work.  Meanwhile you're exhausted trying to juggle finances, hours and kids' schedules, plus your partner's unpredictable emotional outbursts and unreliability.  Maybe he'll be reasonable/responsible sometimes, but more often than not, you feel used and abused.  Yes?

If the foregoing sounds about right, I'm not sure what the solution really is.  On the one hand, I think you might just accept that his thinking patterns are highly emotional and governed by insecurities.  I don't know how to make someone feel more secure except to use constant praise and to try to manage his "energy."  This might be off-base, but it sounds to me like your husband really needs a job where he's actually going to a workplace and interacting with other people in person, which would take some of the focus off you and what you're doing, as well as bolster his confidence and identity.  If he can "work from home" while watching kids or changing up locations, my guess is that he's not working very hard (I could be wrong, that's just my read based on the short post you wrote).  Based on my experience with BPD, where volatile emotions get in the way of maintaining focus, reading social cues and staying on task, it seems to me that working from home would be a set-up that is simply too challenging.  My guess is that a "regular" job with stable hours, a predictable location and a lack of distractions would actually decrease stress.

Just my two cents.

[dtkm]

Thank you CC! Your post was incredibly helpful and I believe, spot on!  I work part time at a hospital where I have worked for over 15 years. I used to work full time but went to part time when my 3rd child was about 2. I have slowly picked up PRN positions, as I can’t afford our lives on a part time job and every effort that I made to pick up extra days he would sabatoge but then tell me I need to pay for everything!  Long story short I called the police on him about a year ago. When I saw what was coming at him legally, I hired my own lawyer to help him get the least punishment. Part of what he got was mandatory DV therapy, mandatory mental health evaluation and treatment for that. In the beginning, I saw huge strides and could see that he was putting in a lot of work and he would talk a little about it. As time has progressed, his tone eases after he goes to DV therapy, but there are times that I’m not sure he is following through with his DBT therapy. We own rental property, and we agreed that it would be best if he lived in one of those while the kids and I stayed at the house until he is off probation and we can communicate better. His communication and actions change like the wind. So I ask him weekly, by text so I have something to refer back to if I question something, if he is planning on the same as last week. Every other week has been yes. This week was no, he only was there to be with the kids through a 2 week transition period (there was a fire at our kids school so they had to switch to different schools), that he would not be my “errand boy” (referring to taking the kids to school and to/from one sports practice) and when will the kids be sleeping at his place. Well last week “his place” was “our condo”! Lol! So I set up coverage for the week and told him that. He then text me and asked nicely when he could please see the kids, I think it was after his DV therapy session that this was sent. I told him that he was welcome to come over any time to see them and it would be great if he could follow our previous schedule, but I understood that that no longer worked for him. He said that he can take the kids to school but not home. I assumed that meant for the day in question. He comes to the house, is in a great mood. The next day I leave for work and he then refuses to speak to me. I hear nothing from him all day yesterday, so I set up coverage for my kids for today as I have to work. The night comes, I set our alarm the kids and I are in bed about to fall asleep and the alarm goes off. The kids start screaming, I turn the alarm off and my husband slowly makes his way upstairs to confront me as to why I put the alarm on. I tell him that I didn’t know he was coming over and then roll over to go to sleep, I’m not about to get into it. The morning arrives I have to get up at 4 am for work. When I get out of the shower my husband is already up, maybe 4:15 another sign that he is in a mood. I go say good morning, he surprisingly responded “you too” I finish getting ready, then figure I need to remind him that I already have plans set up to get our kids to school, he can take our son, but I a paying someone to take our daughter. So I apologize for the misunderstanding last night and remind him of the plans, to which he starts in with no he is taking her, blah blah blah. I said if I cancel, we still have to pay and o need him to help me pay for this stuff as it’s not just my responsibility. He starts in on I would pay of the kids were at my house, you won’t let me see my kids, etc. I said we have had this conversation before, but I would be happy to have this conversation again in a therapy session together, to which he freaks and says why would I go to therapy with someone who is sleeping with all sorts of guys behind my back, blah blah blah. I responded, that that is not true and I am not continuing this conversation, and that was sorry that he was in the mood he was in,  then I walked away. About 3 minutes later he came out to the area of the house where I was, put the tv on and looked like he was going to do his exercises. Our daughter struggles with getting ready in the morning because she can’t figure out what to wear, she usually goes through at least 5 outfits. She had picked her outfit out the night before since she was going to the babysitters. So I nicely told him that her clothes for the day were in this bag and showed him, he responded back almost yelling “what do you want” I stated it again nicely, to which he said oh. Then I left for work. I know all of this is about control because he feels out of control himself, but ugh, I am so over the affair accusations and the you don’t let me see my kids accusations!

[dtkm]

As for his work, I completely agree that he needs a 9 to 5 job that he has to go into the office, etc. But…he refuses to do that. He lost his job about a year and a half ago, part of the reason why, on top of his attitude and confrontation with coworkers, is because he refused to work in the office, he even had a really nice office while most of the workers had cubes!  Also, he would go to the gym for hours, putting off meetings or taking them from the treadmill! I was hoping that he would get a job like we mentioned when he got another job, but instead he got a job where it was 75% remote and then he was supposed to go into the office the rest of the time, but he never goes in!  The amount of work he does depends on his mood. He is very smart and could be highly successful if he worked like he can all the time, but we all know that won’t happen!  My goal is to get him to use our house as our living space and the condo as his work space and “time out” space and to get him to work regular hours, not a couple hours here a couple hours there then work straight for a full day because he is so behind! 

[CC43]

Hi again,

So if you allow me to do a little more mind reading, what I see is that your husband is trying.  He's going to therapy, and when he's in a good mood, he's helpful.  But he still struggles, because it's hard to change his natural emotional and learned behavioral responses, and deep down he continues to feel incredibly insecure.  I think he knows perfectly well that you turned on the home alarm because you thought you'd be alone for the night.  But his natural impulse is to lash out, to yell at you, because he was ANNOYED and highly reactive to feeling the slightest stress or inconvenience, such as setting off a loud alarm.  Instead of taking it in stride, and maybe helping you by shutting it off and easing the kids back to sleep, he goes straight into accusation mode ("You intentionally try to keep me out"), putting you on the defensive.  Furthermore, he's thought about you having an affair often because he's insecure, and in so doing he's worn a rut in his brain, making this negative thought pop up whenever he sees you exercise a life that is the slightest bit independent of him.  He lashes out to release the negative feelings and to try to reel you into the emotional drama.  He bosses you around in a vain attempt to reclaim control.  He makes untrue accusations all the time, right where it hurts most (You're keeping the kids from me!  You're seeing another man!).  He can act like a bully to get you do things that he wants and you don't.  Right?  I'm saying this because my husband acts the exact same way sometimes--I wouldn't say he has BPD, but he shows some of the traits from time to time when he's under stress and feeling insecure.  His adult daughter who has been diagnosed with BPD shows these behaviors (albeit in the female, more passive-aggressive manifestation) all the time.  She too has gotten treatment and has shown some progress in moderating her emotional outbursts and blaming tendencies, but nevertheless they're still there, and her life and relationships, though better than they used to be, are suboptimal because of her emotional reactivity, taking everything like a personal affront.

It sounds to me that your husband relies on moving back and forth between houses, perhaps as a distraction from getting his work done.  I'm saying that because my adult BPD stepdaughter does that all the time--driving back and forth, changing up living situations, bouncing from couch to couch, this constant movement which feels like procrastination and a distraction, anything to avoid getting actual work done!  Then she'll work one day, and she'll need two or three days to recover.  When she has her own space, she feels comfortable, and yet, it allows her to retreat and be too comfortable, as well as lonely.  I suspect she spends inordinate time procrastinating (with TV and social media), anything to avoid "real life" and facing responsibilities.  When she's in her own space, far away from prying eyes, she can get away with procrastinating even more, until she falls inextricably behind.  If allowed too much space, she eventually self-destructs. . . .

I think you're trying really hard to create an environment to accommodate your husband's ongoing challenges.  You're stepping up to take care of bills to avoid arguments.  You've created a separate space where he can self-regulate.  I love the idea of regular work outs to manage his "energy."  I love the idea of a job that has a schedule and some predictibility to it.  I love the idea of your husband going into the workplace to foster some workplace interactions--anything to enforce a routine and take some of the focus away from you, as well as an opportunity for him to forge other relationships and accomplishments that would build up his identity and self-esteem.  It does sound like he has potential, if only he'd learn to embrace the notion of a predictable schedule, and if only he'd use his emotional regulation skills more consistently.  It seems to me like he knows it, but he just can't seem to follow through consistently.  He's too easily "derailed" by his emotional reactivity and moodiness.  His daily choices aren't yet where they need to be.

I'm not sure what to advise.  On the one hand, I think I'd encourage and praise him abundantly any time he follows through with healthy habits ("It looks like you had a decent workout, your committment to the treadmill in the mornings is really impressive/I'm glad you were able to work all day uninterrupted at home, it must feel great to get so much work done/It's so nice to wake up and see a smiling husband first thing in the morning/Thanks for taking out the trash, I appreciate having such a helpful husband/I'm proud of you for committing for therapy, my guess is that it must be hard, but I see you're really trying.")  It's not very difficult for me to make these sorts of comments, because they're true!  And I think that by being reassuring, it can help husbands to see that following through on seemingly mundane things is actually conducive to a happy life. 

Yet it may be that no matter how hard he tries, your husband might never learn to control his impulsive outbursts and learn to "do things he doesn't necessarily want to do" for long-term benefits.  But it does sound like he's reasonable when he's in a good mood.  Maybe you could try to talk with him when he's in one of his good moods and ask that he take some topics off the table.  You might say, Darling, I love you and choose to be with you every day.  It's very distressing for me when you accuse me of seeing other men (or threaten divorce), when you know perfectly well that I've been nothing but committed to you and our kids.  I feel hurt and insulted when you say that, and I don't like feeling that way.  I don't like having to defend myself of false accusations, and I don't want the kids to hear you say that about their mom.  It's not fair to me or to them, we don't deserve that.  Saying I'm having an affair doesn't solve any of our issues, it only creates ill feelings.  From now on, if you accuse me of an affair, I'm not going to discuss it any further.  If you say it in front of the kids, I'm going to insist that you leave (the house/room).

Anyway, when it comes to BPD, I tend to think that the direction of movement is more important than the speed of change.  Do you feel like your husband is "on track" more than "off track"?  Is he generally headed in the right direction?  Look, he's going to go off the rails sometimes, because that's the nature of BPD.  The question I have for you is, is he getting back "on track" pretty fast?  If he is, then I think you have some reason for hope, and that the therapy is working.