How to negotiate without triggering them?

[SuperDaddy]

Every couple in the world who lives together ends up having some type of conflict around the usage of the space or the things. Even more tension can arise when they disagree about the education/caretaking of kids. It's normal for sparks to fire at the heat of the moment. However, in a mentally healthy couple, those problems should not become chronic or too overwhelming. At some point when both parties are calm, one of them should try a better approach, disarming the other partner and allowing negotiation to happen. Then, when both are interested in talking with care and willing to understand the other point of view, it should be easy to compromise.

However, with a BPD partner, even by approaching them with planned steps and the best intentions, if it is a sensible topic, we are likely to fail badly. Because the topic may make them feel criticized and then trigger a very aggressive attitude in them.

For instance, my wife has very bad habits in regard to the organization of stuff and doing things impulsively, which ruins any kind of organization that I try to do in the house. I think this might be part of ADHD, but I feel like I can't touch those topics without triggering her.

Should I just wait for treatments to take effect before talking about it and, meanwhile, just use radical acceptance (accept the mess and keep quiet about it)?

Is this the kind of stuff for couples therapy?

Or is it possible to talk it out without triggering them?

Please share your experiences.

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[SuperDaddy]

Let me add an example...

This is what happens with my wife when she is in my place (we are living apart). Yesterday, since she was about to leave, I took the risk of making a brief comment while she was rolling over the kids' clothes in the drawer:

Me—Hey, my love, I don't quite like when the dresses of the kids are all messed up in the drawer, you know?
Her—Those didn't fit on her anymore. (becomes defensive)
Me—You are trying to justify it, but you know that all drawers have become like that.
Her—I didn't have to justify myself for you, because you are not my master or anything. Blah blah blah... (talking nonsense very loud, almost screaming, and nonstop)
Me—I don't have to hear your screams like that in my home, my own place. (while preparing to leave her sight)
Her—YOU SAY THAT TO HURT ME, YOU BASTARD! (switching now the topic to the "my home" phrase, which she didn't want me to use)

A minute later, while I am far from her, she prepares her stuff to leave but gives me an order:

Her—Give some fruits to your son!
Me—Are you giving me an order?
Her—YES!
Me—So screw you! (but I was going to prepare the fruits anyway)
Her—SCREW YOU !! Your **** ! #$...

As I fed our son with sweet melon, I brought a piece for her. I had to insist, but since she appreciates when I care for her, she began to cool off and accepted it. As I noticed the opportunity I brought, I gave her a hug and kiss. Finally, she is back to normal.

But nothing was resolved. And I think she ends up feeling like she was abused, and not the contrary.

[Horselover]

I find that my husband (also currently living apart) has very little bandwidth for these kinds of conversations. So I very carefully pick which ones I want to have. This obviously can make me feel pent up, as I need to keep many of my needs to myself and not discuss them, but the reality is that he is just not going to handle it well if I bring up a lot of "issues".

Basically, I try to pick whatever topics are MOST important to me, and then, when calm, not in the moment, I mention it to him in the most unemotional way possible and with very little elaboration. For example, "I would appreciate it if you leave the kids' clothing in their drawers the way I put it there. Thanks" (I would not say this as she is messing the clothing, but after the fact, a day or two later). I used to elaborate a lot on my requests and needs, and sometimes cry when very upset, and learned that these did not work at all, as he gets triggered and starts yelling at me and dissociating. Also, if he does respond poorly to any request, as when your wife started to become defensive or swear, I immediately disengage and close the conversation (hang up the phone, leave the room etc). And I do not ever try to use logic when he is becoming irritated (ie "you are trying to justify it, you know that all the drawers are becoming like that"). I am a very logical person, so it used to be my "go to", but now I know that logic is one of the worst strategies I can use for someone who is essentially completely illogical when dysregulated.

I am obviously not perfect, and do slip up sometimes and try to talk about things that are not in the "most important" category or say my needs in an emotional way, but usually it backfires. I am pretty consistent about disengaging when he gets elevated, and that has made my nervous system a lot calmer, as I could not handle engaging with his outbursts anymore.

I also have had to accept that the relationship is simply not a "normal" one where the couple can safely share their needs and feelings and come to a nice, shared compromise. This doesn't mean I accept abuse, because that is something I have a pretty hard limit on (ie I do not tolerate bad language, insults etc and won't engage at all), but it does mean that I have had to come to terms with the fact that if I want to stay in this relationship, it has some natural limitations on what I can express and what I can expect from him.

[SuperDaddy]

Horselover,

Thanks for your insights!

My nervous system can get back to normal very quickly. I think that helps because as soon as she stops yelling, she can notice my better mood and absorb it.

When I said all other drawers were in the same state, I was using logic indeed, but in my view she was not dysregulated yet. Though I realize she was being defensive already, using illogical arguments to defend her ego. So I get your point. I'll extract the parts that I agree with you on and add my own suggestion on how to approach the topics:

• Do not counter nonsense with logic, as it will make things worse. As soon as your BS detector is triggered, step back and let them know that you'll leave that for another moment.
• Do not question a behavior in real time, but instead wait for some time (perhaps even a couple of days) and then approach it in a positive way.
• Do not question a behavior directly, and instead talk about facts. Instead of saying that they burn and scratch the pans, describe how you love when your pans are preserved as new, because it helps both of you with the cooking. Instead of saying they shout at you on the phone and hang up, focus on the fact that you really liked when your phone conversations were pleasurable and ended up with kisses.
• When bringing up a delicate topic, first clarify your goal. If possible, describe it as a shared benefit, such as improving the relationship. Then describe the desired (ideal) situation and why it is important for you. Next, describe the undesired reality that you see and how you feel about it, while still avoiding pointing out their behavior. Finally, as an invitation to bring them into the conversation, ask them how they can help you with that. If it works, then they should get motivated to find out by themselves which behavior of theirs can be changed.
• Accept the fact that the relationship has limitations.