Please advise

[CG4ME]

My daughter sent me a text wishing me a happy birthday and some gift money.  We haven't spoken since December 2025.  I ner message she wasn't impressed that I haven't apologized. I set a boundary with her and she didn't like it.  However, it was because she had verbally and emotionally abused me.  She refused to apologize because I had cancelled hosting Christmas for that reason and others.  She is so hung up on getting an apology out of me.  I don't know what to say to her because in my heart an apology is a short term solution and not going to address the real issue of her behaviour. She thinks it's ok to say awful things and there are no reprocussions. She has OCD and narcissistic traits.  I feel like this is a test somehow.  I do miss her and love her and want this tension between us over but do I apologise even though she is the one who should apologise to me.  She will just think I can be controlled and do it again. Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[CC43]

Hi there,

I see that your daughter is trying, and it was nice of her to recognize your birthday, with a token gift no less.  However, it seems sad that it might have been a "cover" to rekindle her grievances, a sort of bribe to extract what she thinks she wants--an apology from you.  Maybe it would depend on the wording of her note, but my sense from you is that you feel manipulated, correct?  Do you think that if you apologized, your daughter would recognize her role in the situation, the issue would be patched up, and you two could move forward?  Or maybe you think that if you "confess" and apologize, it would be tacit consent for your daughter to continue to treat you badly, and that she might escalate with increased demands for your time/money/resources which you can't afford to provide?

Oftentimes on these boards I read about situations of estrangement from BPD adult children.  I'm currently in that situation right now.  Generally I advise parents not to "beg" their estranged child to resume contact, because they are keeping their distance for a reason--possibly to get some time and space to get back to baseline, to "protect" themselves from supposedly "toxic" behavior, or maybe even to punish the offending parent with their absence.  When parents reach out too soon and frequently, I think it infringes on the adult child's desire for space, while at the same time it reminds the child of the unresolved emotional tension.  Having said that, on these boards I've recommended parents to consider sending simple well wishes on important dates, such as birthdays or a major holiday, to show that you still think about them and want them to feel included in the family.  But by the same token, I've advised to minimize any emotional content in the message, and anything that looks like manipulation or a bribe, such as "I have presents for you."  Here, the situation seems to have been reversed, because your estranged BPD daughter is the one reaching out to you on your birthday, but she sends a mixed message by trying to extract an apology from you.  That's exactly the sort of thing I've advised against.  Do you see what I mean?

I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation.  I think I might acknowledge and thank her for sending the happy birthday wishes, in the hopes that that might open the door a crack towards a reconciliation.  But I doubt I'd make any unwarranted apology.  I might think about an apology along the lines of, "I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt, I never intended that," but my opinion is that it probably wouldn't be acceptable to your daughter, based on your post.  She's already showing her discontent for the timing of an apology from you, and my guess is that she'd dispute the content of it too.

Increasingly, I'm wondering if an apology will ever work with a pwBPD.  I get the sense that parents here are desperate and have repeatedly reached out to an unkind adult child who should have been the one to apologize.  A reasonable person would have empathy, seek clarification and understanding, find a way to patch things up and move forward.  But many pwBPD lack these traits.  Worse, their expectations can seem totally unreasonable, maybe even delusional, and their version of events can veer far off from the truth.  I guess I'm saying, apologizing for actual wrongs with reasonable people can lead to a positive outcomes, especially if you are sincere and try to make it up to them.  But making an unwarranted apology to an unreasonable person only fuels the fire in my opinion.  Apologizing could signal that you accept abusive behavior from your daughter.  She could take it a step further and demand retribution.  Does that sound about right?  I guess my question is, what is the most likely scenario?

This might be a little off topic, but I'll wrap up with a situation I encountered with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  She was estranged from her sister for a few years.  She had the idea of flying to her sister's place and reading her a letter detailing all the ways she felt abused by her sister, to air her many grievances so to speak.  I think she thought that upon hearing the words, her sister would apologize.  I didn't have to read the contents of the letter to sense that this idea wasn't a good one, because I was certain that the letter contained major fact distortions and was highly accusatory.  I felt there was no way her sister would agree to the narrative, let alone apologize, let alone "atone" and pay retribution.  I felt the whole scenario would backfire, and probably blow up.  So I discouraged the trip (BPD stepdaughter wanted the money for it).  At the same time, I felt the planned trip was just another distraction from what my adult BPD stepdaughter should have been doing, namely concentrating on her therapy and resuming some college studies.  A cross-country trip with a failed apology and sisterly blow-up would probably derail everything.  So I think it was best to maintain the status quo of estrangement at that time.  Clearly the BPD stepdaughter wasn't "ready" for reconciliation, as her thinking was too unreasonable, and her expectations weren't realistic.  Sound familiar?

[CG4ME]

Hi CC43

Thank you for the response.  I thanked her for the birthday wishes and told her I loved her and would love to see her.  What she does with that is up to her.  I apologized for the only thing I could take responsibility for and hoped she could accept that apology and turn over a new leaf.  If she is not going to be specific about what the apology is for and what it means to her, which would open the floor to have an actual conversation then again that's up to her to decide whether she can move on.  My hope in doing this is that at some point she will get tired of trying to get me to do what she wants me to do to make things better.  I know that this is about more than the apology.  She can't tolerate the idea that she said very hurtful things to me.  It would mean she would have to feel the deep shame of what she said.  I'm hoping it's just enough to get her to the other side of this so moving forward we will be having a very different relationship. One where she can decide when she wants to connect and keeping it surface and simple where I don't share too much about my life and give very little to use against me.  I can only hope.

[js friend]

Hi CGAME,

Firstly I also think that it is wonderful that your dd acknowledged your birthday..

IMO I also think that expecting a heartfelt apology from your dd is probably very unlikely from anyone who has very strong NPD traits as they feel that they are NEVER in the wrong or at fault.

Also having any open communication  requires the ability to listen to the other party and with my udd that has been impossible because of her anger.

I think that you should give it time now that you have apologised and be patient and wait for a response from your dd.

[js friend]

.......Happy belated birthday btw.   

[BPDstinks]

Happy Birthday!  (May I say, I am happy for you & jealous!  I wish my daughter would acknowledge ANY holiday...!) but....than (if it is like I remember, your heart pounds in "anticipation yet worry!) I, personally, (though, I am always SEEKING advice!) think I would (whatever form of communication you both share) simply say, thank you (I always add, hope you are well and I love you) I always say, to the group, it makes me sad, that it must be a flow chart on how to speak to our children, however, such is the life of BPD....I just met with my BPD therapist, who advised me, to grasp the reality....I "grieve for the daughter I "want" and need to accept the daughter I "have"....I hope it goes the way you want

[samss]

I'm in the same situation. My daughter reached out after I asked if she'd be amenable to doing family therapy with the assessment that her psychologist and therapist both think that having a family session would only be further gaslighting her. Even though I've said I'd be willing to go a therapist of her choice because when I suggested a therapist that was unacceptable as well because the therapist I'd choose would be "on my side" and aid in the "gaslighting".

My daughter constantly requires that I "apologize" and "take responsibility" for my behavior but honestly I have no idea what kind of apology will ever suffice or what behavior I'm meant to address. I'm told I should go to therapy on my own but that she won't engage with me until I "apologize". I've said repeatedly to her that I do apologize for hurting her feelings if I have done so in the past and would like to find a path forward for both of us, but she purposely maligns that notion.

Reading this post as well as others who seem to say that their adult BPD children ask for unreasonable apologies for slights or wrongs that only they seem to know we've done and regardless of how many apologies are made, are never enough, then what is it we're meant to do?

[Pook075]

Apologies are a funny thing because when we give them, they tend to benefit us more than the other person.  With mental illness in the mix though, there's often an actual need for the other person to hear an apology.

We all know that apologizing for something that we didn't do is counter-productive with a person suffering from BPD.  It validates the invalid in their mind and can often turn into a way to manipulate.

However, we can apologize for the other person's feelings...which are always valid.  I'm sorry if I hurt you.  I'm sorry that you felt that way.  I'm sorry you felt like I did that to harm you; I would never want that.  I'm sorry I didn't state how I felt more plainly.

There's lots to apologize for if we're being honest.

BPD is a mental illness centered around feelings.  It's safe to apologize for feelings and that's what truly matters.  The stuff being argued about?  Not so much, it's unimportant since it's more about raging in the moment and showing that something is very off.  That's why focusing on feelings and apologizing for hurt feelings is so effective.

[BPDstinks]

samss:  my last "real" conversation with my pwBPD (my daughter has initiated very little contact, this is going on 3 years) she advised "I was the reason she was "like this" and went on a tangent of reasons, mainly b/c I worked so much & ignored her (I have researched BPD heavily & it is my understanding "one" should not be "defensive", so....I said, "I apologize if you feel that way" there was more to the conversation, (all negative) bottom line....I canNOT nor will I apologize for WORKing!  Everything stalled after that....she cut off me, her father, sister & her nieces....I work for a therapist who specializes in children & young adults with BPD....I don't pretend to understand BPD....all I can do is patiently wait until she might want to reconcile? I share this because I am agreeing with others' explanations that apologies might not even " take root" in these cases

[samss]

samss:  my last "real" conversation with my pwBPD (my daughter has initiated very little contact, this is going on 3 years) she advised "I was the reason she was "like this" and went on a tangent of reasons, mainly b/c I worked so much & ignored her (I have researched BPD heavily & it is my understanding "one" should not be "defensive", so....I said, "I apologize if you feel that way" there was more to the conversation, (all negative) bottom line....I canNOT nor will I apologize for WORKing!  Everything stalled after that....she cut off me, her father, sister & her nieces....I work for a therapist who specializes in children & young adults with BPD....I don't pretend to understand BPD....all I can do is patiently wait until she might want to reconcile? I share this because I am agreeing with others' explanations that apologies might not even " take root" in these cases

Hi,

I don't pretend to think that any apology I could make would stick or even mean anything to my daughter. I think that anything I could say would be met with ridicule and derision. It's been the norm so why expect otherwise? I think this is all very disheartening. I'm listening to the book, "Rules of Estrangement" and honestly, it's heartening and sad to hear someone else voice my life.

CG4ME, you should take heart. This isn't you. I've heard quite a few people tell me this in the relatively short time I've been dealing with this and each and every time I hear it, it feels so empowering. You're a good person and you are doing your best. They'll never understand that not because of you, but because they don't know how.

[Pook075]

When I turned the corner with my BPD daughter, it was my brother passing away and us traveling together for a final goodbye.  Everyone said don't do it, the trip will be a disaster, but I stayed focused on the reason we were going and I wasn't going to deny her saying goodbye to her uncle.

On that trip, she said something like, "I was a terrible kid and I feel bad for how I treated my parents."  It wasn't exactly an apology, but I was so shocked hearing it that I was rattled for days. 

So I wrote her a letter after getting home and was super careful with my words.  I told her that I regretted that we didn't have the best relationship and I was sorry it couldn't be better.  I told her that I always tried my best, even when I didn't have any idea what to do.

I think it was my last line that really got her though, I said something like, "I want you to know that I forgive you for everything, every last bit of it.  It's forgotten."  And I actually meant it.

After that, everything has changed for the better.  I've been told off a few times, but otherwise we've had a surprisingly normal relationship and I am so thankful for it.

Three things:

1)  I apologized for everything in one lump sum.
2)  I said I always did the best I could, I never meant to hurt her.
3)  I forgave everything and actually meant it.

I hope that helps someone and I'm rooting for all of you!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[CG4ME]

Thank you everyone for the support and birthday wishes. She actually responded back with an apology of her own with a side of still needing to blame.  I will take it. It meant a lot to me because my oldest with BPD didn't call or connect with me on my birthday.  We will see where this goes but for now I feel like I can let go a little and deal with the other things in my life I need to attend with.