Manipulative Mother

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hello. I've lived with my BPD/NPD mother for 10 years. She's getting worse. She's 67. Today she sucked me into one of her games. She told me a technician who came to the house to look at our trees, laughed at her, and made her cry. I fell for it and wrote an email to the company. They emailed me back, saying a manager would get a hold of me. When I talked to the manager, he told me his two guys, (my mom told me only one guy was there), interacted, and assumed everything was okay. She didn't seem agitated or upset when they left. I am left not knowing what to do. Why would someone risk their $30 an hour job to make fun of someone? It doesn't make sense. Why would she lie to me? When I got home, I thought she would say something, but she has remained silent. She hasn't asked me if I reported him or anything. Usually, she is very nosy. Lately, she is very detached. I am frustrated and confused. I also feel guilty for writing that email and potentially getting two guys in trouble for something they didn't do. She has always been manipulative, but this is new to me. She's never involved someone else. I don't let her get away with gaslighting, guilt trips, or making me feel bad anymore, and I feel like I can not let her get away with this. This is a boundary that has to be set, and right now she can split me all she wants. Thank you in advance for any help. I need all I can get.

[Einstein]

Hello. I've lived with my BPD/NPD mother for 10 years. She's getting worse. She's 67. Today she sucked me into one of her games. She told me a technician who came to the house to look at our trees, laughed at her, and made her cry. I fell for it and wrote an email to the company. They emailed me back, saying a manager would get a hold of me. When I talked to the manager, he told me his two guys, (my mom told me only one guy was there), interacted, and assumed everything was okay. She didn't seem agitated or upset when they left. I am left not knowing what to do. Why would someone risk their $30 an hour job to make fun of someone? It doesn't make sense. Why would she lie to me? When I got home, I thought she would say something, but she has remained silent. She hasn't asked me if I reported him or anything. Usually, she is very nosy. Lately, she is very detached. I am frustrated and confused. I also feel guilty for writing that email and potentially getting two guys in trouble for something they didn't do. She has always been manipulative, but this is new to me. She's never involved someone else. I don't let her get away with gaslighting, guilt trips, or making me feel bad anymore, and I feel like I can not let her get away with this. This is a boundary that has to be set, and right now she can split me all she wants. Thank you in advance for any help. I need all I can get.

[Notwendy]

I can understand how frustrating this is. I think it would help to keep in mind that boundaries are about us, not another person.

We can't control what someone else says to us, or their thinking or feelings. All we can do is decide how we are going to respond to that.

It may also help to read about the Karpman triangle. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

From my own experience, and have also read this- pwBPD perceive themselves in Victim perspective. My BPD mother (now deceased) would describe situations where people were being mean to her. Whether or not it was true, it's how she perceived them. She could be manipulative too at times, so sometimes it wasn't possible to know what actually happened.

When adult children are raised in a family with a disordered person, we may be in roles of either Rescuer or Persecutor in relation to that person. Triangle dynamics are dysfunctional but in these families, they are the "normal" patterns we learn, and also may be the "normal" your mother is used to.  However, taking on any role in this dynamic usually leads to being split on- us in Persecutor role.

One suggested boundary here could be "I won't "rescue" BPD mother from an interpersonal dispute, if there wasn't actual harm done to her that you can see". This is a boundary that involves your response- and so you decide that. It doesn't mean you don't ever help out- if she needs help with something- you can assist her but if she comes to you saying someone yelled at her, or was mean to her, you don't need to act on that.

This kind of situation happened in my mother's elder years. If a caregiver urged her to do something- like take medicine- she'd say the caregiver was mean to her, but the caregiver was just doing her job. Sometimes we kids would be the ones she felt somehow "hurt" her but we didn't do anything wrong.

Although you feel you can not let your mother get away with what she did, attempts to go back on this with her are not likely to be effective and may even escalate the drama in this situation. Your mother is not likely to change. The more effective approach is to have a boundary that applies to you- like not intervening in her interpersonal issues without having proof of actual harm to her.

[CC43]

Hi Einstein,

With a name like Einstein, I bet you're a thoughtful, logical person.  That might be why your mom's often irrational, emotional reactions can seem confusing.  With BPD, it's fairly common to feel aggrieved where no offense was ever intended.  Maybe the tree experts mentioned a species of tree (or pest) that your mom confused with something else, and in her confusion, she felt slighted, maybe made to feel stupid or inferior.  Maybe she was upset because the arborists "criticized" a plant on her property, when she thinks it looks fine.  Then she concocted a story where the arborists "made fun of" her, when all they were doing was explaining the situation or proposing services.  My guess is that your mom was venting her shame with you.

I like NotWendy's boundary suggestion.  Another one might be, if your mom has a problem that's inconsequential, you let her sort it out.  You don't have to rush in and "fix" manufactured problems for your mom.  She's an adult, right?

One technique I find helpful sometimes is to "slow walk."  That is, when a pwBPD traits is upset, outraged or venting, I tend to let them have at it.  I try to resist "jumping in" with questions, let alone solutions.  I try to slow my reactions down, to see if the situation will fizzle out without any intervention from me.  Sometimes I'll "buy time," with a neutral statement like, uh huh.  If I'm pressured to intervene, maybe I'll say in as neutral a tone as possible, "If you want to call them, you don't need me to do that."  Or maybe, "I'm in a rush right now."  If I buy enough time, more often than not, the emotions will fizzle out.  By the same token, she won't want to spend her OWN time and energy on the problem.  At the end of the day, by slow walking, I often save my own time and emotional energy, too.  Does that seem like something that might work in your situation?

[TelHill]

My late dBPD mom would tell me unsavory things about relatives which sounded plausible.  But she had to be a fly on the wall in homes where these things supposedly took place when I thought about it a second time. She had no real friends she could get this information from.  I concluded it was made up. To her it was real. pwBPD can have auditory and visual hallucinations. Maybe this explains it?

I confronted my mother at times, not the unsavory gossip though. She would become enraged and call me names. She never improved or understood what I meant.   I'm sure she believed she was telling the truth. I'm sure she thought I was the troubled one abusing her.

I realize it was a mistake to treat her like a child who needed discipline instead of the older lady with a mental disorder. Some things are not worth pursuing with pwBPD.

Should a similar story come from her again you can ask the business if it happened by prefacing it by saying mom is prone to telling tall tales.  At least you know not to take what she says at face value.

About her tuning out lately, she might be dissociating. My mom would be too quiet and her demeanor was flat and unemotional at times. It's part of the disorder.

[Einstein]

Thank for the responses so far. I'm so fed up. I honestly can't take it anymore. The resentment I have for her could fill the Universe. Everything she does is unbearable to the point she makes me think I have problems, or I'm going to end up like her. I have lots of support outside of the household with therapy, groups, a psychiatrist, doctors, and friends, but it often seems like it's not enough. I've learned to communicate more effectively with her and set boundaries when she gaslights or makes me feel bad or guilty. I've been doing well when it comes to these things. I was horrible at it before. I was always in tears and often suicidal. She can be a horrible person. I've been in therapy for over 6 years and doing much better, but recently she's been getting worse, and this year, I've been very sick. She refused to take care of me or help me in any way. So when she sucks me into one of her delusions, I feel like I might snap. I can't take much more of her detachment or her dissociation episodes. I can't trust her with anything. I took a small vacation with my dog and she neglected all the other animals. Right now I feel like I'm venting to strangers, and suddenly I feel weird, but it seems many of you know what I'm going through. What she did is tipping me over, but I have not acted on it. I'm going to take the advice and let this one go. I did talk to the company, and let them know the situation, and how sorry I was for my email. If it happens again, I will know what to do. Thank you for reading this and responding.

[Notwendy]

Living with a BPD parent is difficult. It's good that you have the support of professionals and friends.

One situation that I would feel let down over was if I had expectations of BPD mother. In a "normal" situation, someone in the same house could be relied on to feed the animals, or help out in other ways but with BPD it's unpredictable.

Often we feel resentful when we have expectations of someone and are let down. There's nothing wrong with expecting a housemate to share some tasks and live cooperatively. It's that when a person is disordered, they think and behave differently.

The more you can stay out of her own personal issues with people, it can probably help. It won't fix the situation- she's still going to have BPD and it's a challenge, but it may help your own disappointment. She's going to dissociate- that is a part of the disorder. During these times, try to get some time away- even if it's locking your bedroom door, putting on headphones and listening to music.

[Pook075]

She told me a technician who came to the house to look at our trees, laughed at her, and made her cry.

Think about this this way. 

Did a technician look at her trees?  Yes.

Did the technician laugh at something?  I would assume yes.

Did your mom cry?  I would assume yes there as well.  But remember, she wasn't upset or agitated when they left.  So she cried later thinking back on it.

Did the technician make her cry?  Now you're asking a question that depends on perspective.  Your mom said yes, the technician said no.  I'd bet a dollar that both are telling the truth.  Why?  How?  Maybe something the technician said made her cry in hindsight...maybe the tree made her think of your dad, or a dog she had when she was 10.  Who knows what the connection was in this instance.  He could have said something completely normal though and it could have made her cry hours later.

With mental illness, everything said is true from the viewer's perspective.  Everyone else may say it's false, but that's not how feelings work.  If you feel sad, you're sad...there's no proof or explanation required.  Your mom heard something that made her sad.  That's true.  But it doesn't mean that the tree guy was a bad person or said something ugly.

Hopefully that helps a little.

[CC43]

She can be a horrible person. I've been in therapy for over 6 years and doing much better, but recently she's been getting worse, and this year, I've been very sick. She refused to take care of me or help me in any way.

Hi again Einstein,

I'm so sorry things have been getting worse lately.  To me, that you're very sick explains a lot.  I've noticed that sickness can be triggering for a pwBPD.  Maybe it has to do with "contagion" of malaise, but I think that deep down, the pwBPD feels "abandoned" when there's sickness in the family.  That's because attention--especially your attention--is temporarily diverted away from her.  In the case of a long-term sickness, she might spin out of control, believing that her very life is ending as she knows it.  She can't bear not to hold 100% of your attention and have access to 100% of your energy/capability/financial support.  So what does she do?  She manufactures dramas, big and small, to ensure she still has a hold over you and to reclaim your attention.  She will "punish" you for being sick, which is the opposite of what you need.  Just when you need to focus on self-care the most, she's acting out.  It's especially cruel because you're not feeling well as it is.

I think the same sort of thing happens when you dare to do something nice for yourself, like go on vacation.  Cue the feelings of abandonment.  Double-cue the feelings of jealousy and spite--that you dare to have fun, when she isn't happy at all.  What does she do in response?  She punishes you.  She neglects the pets, she manufactures drama to reclaim your attention, she "spoils" your trip.  She's trying to make sure that you know, if you ever dare to leave her alone, it's not worth it to you.  It's her misguided way of keeping you trapped at home, so that she commands 100% of your attention and servitude.  Does that sound about right?  If that sounds familiar, it's because I've lived through that.

Sometimes I agree with Pook, that the pwBPD truly believes that she was hurt or offended.  That may be the case with your mom, but I wouldn't rule out plain lying, which they'll justify by blame-shifting (Well you/they made me do it!).  The pwBPD in my life is perfectly capable of faking some sort of meltdown/crisis/sudden illness to get what they want.  It's almost always when I'm headed off for a vacation/fun afternoon, coming down with an illness myself, or dealing with a death in the family.  It's so predictable and ludricous that I want to scream sometimes.  It's like they're programmed to needle me, abuse me, take advantage of me exactly when I need the tiniest bit of cooperation.  It's like I'm living with a five-year-old sometimes--and I know some five-year-olds who are emotionally more mature, dependable and self-sufficient!  I think you wrote that it's a huge letdown that you can't rely on your mom for anything whatsoever (except generalized dysfunction and meltdowns).  And that really hurts because she's your mom, and you give her so much of yourself.  I get it.  I guess the only way to cope is to assume non-cooperation, and that way, you won't be as disappointed.  You just need to assume she's not reliable.  When she does cooperate, then that's gravy.

As you're living with your mom, I'm wondering if you could carve out some extra space for yourself.  If living apart isn't possible, maybe you could claim a separate room in the home, all to yourself?  I did that a while back, and it felt life-changing.  Before, I didn't have any space for myself, not even a closet--everything was shared, and since my spouse has very strong opinions about decorations and furnishings (as well as a lot of stuff), nothing felt truly "mine," and all the spaces felt cramped.  I didn't have privacy--my family wouldn't let me focus uninterrupted for more than a few of minutes, and my belongings would often go missing, infuriating me.  But once I claimed a room for myself (with a door), I felt like I had some privacy, some space to myself.  If someone took something from my room without asking, it became a clear violation of privacy.  Moreover, since there was a door, there was a physical barrier to separate me and my stuff, and I think that people had to think twice before barging in.  When in my space, I wasn't immediately "available" to solve every single little problem.  It helped me to "slow walk" even more.  In short, having a separate room of my own became my refuge and made me feel more at peace.

In the meantime, I'd encourage you to get out as much as you can, and ensure you see friends and do some fun things as much as possible.  You DESERVE to have a life.  Even if your mom "punishes" you for having a life, don't let that stop you.  Just let her have her tantrum (assuming she does that).  Once you understand what she's doing, I think it's easier to accept it for what it is, and move on.  By cultivating your life (friends, hobbies, self-care, taking care of pets, etc.), you'll start to feel more like your normal self, and your mom's dysfunction will seem a smaller part of your life.  That might cut down on feelings of resentment, too.  We wouldn't want you to miss out on your life.  So you go make it happen, no matter what your mom does, and don't feel guilty, either.  I know it's hard, but it's also worth it.

[wantmorepeace]

Hello, Einstein. I have also had many times when I've felt like all the support I has isn't enough; where I've been frustrated by what felt like lack of progress (in myself) despite all the work I put into therapy; and when my resentment could have filled the universe. 

It sounds like you are doing the work that needs to be done and that over time have been able to make some changes in your relationship to your mother. I truly believe that things will continue to progress, but it will not always be linear.  There will be moments that feel like backsliding.  And there will be feelings that will take time to lessen.

I recently started reading the Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist.  I wonder if it might be helpful to you.  (Funny that you mentioned five-year-olds because this book suggests that many people wbpd stopped maturing emotionally as early as two years old.)

[Einstein]

Helle Everyone and, yes CC43, you are right. Thank you. That made me tear up. I don't think anyone has ever been so accurate about her. I often feel lost because I hold out hope for her. There's a small child inside that wants her to be the mom she never was, and every day she lets me down. It breaks my heart, and I often can't seem to move past it. Most days are better than others. Being here is helping. It's giving me different perspectives. I used to let her make me feel bad about seeing friends, but I would still go - tears in my eyes. Today, I ignore her, or tell her to stop. I did book another vacation, but I'll prepare better for the care of the outside animals now that I know how she is going to be. I really appreciate all of you. Oh! My user name, Einstein, is the name of my service dog. He is an American Staffordshire Terrier, and he is 97 pounds of lazy. 12 years old. I've had him since he was 12 weeks old. He's the best dog. Very smart, hence his name. Thank you.

[GlobeTrotterGirl]

I have so much empathy for your situation as we are going through a bad time with my uBPD mum, the longest and worst episode of behaviour we've had from her in the 9 years since my dad died. She is worryingly delusional and has her own version of reality and the things she thinks people have done to wrong her. She's very difficult to have much communication with right now and destructive to our well-being.

[GlobeTrotterGirl]

Just to echo CC43, I also stick to not giving my mum the reactions she wants especially when she is trying to play me off against my brother and aunt. Not that it deters her from being venomous and hoping to lure me in though! They are such mentally exhausting people when they have bpd!

[Notwendy]

Globe Trotter Girl-

Understanding what was going on with my BPD mother after my father passed was confusing because, sometimes the "reason" for the pwBPD's acting out- or the reason they say, isn't the actual reason. PwBPD have difficulty managing emotions- and perceive them as coming from someone or something else, rather than their own emotions- projection- or look to an external way to relieve them, like acting out, raging, etc.

We knew my father had been in the role of emotional caretaker, and did a lot for her but we didn't know all of the extent of that. We had been concerned about how she would manage on her own and it appeared to us at first, and extended family that she was managing OK. She kept her personal life and decisions secret from us, so we didn't truly know what was going on with her.

It took a long time to understand that my BPD mother had emotional difficulty being alone with herself-beyond just being lonely at times. She had friends and social opportunities but that wasn't the same kind of dynamic as with my father. She didn't express that but instead had behaviors that drew attention to her. When she was alone, she'd get very anxious and stressed. I think that my father did a lot to manage this. He met a lot of her emotional needs.

What may be happening with your mother is that your father did this too, and without that, she's acting out in ways to attain the kind of attention she had with him- albeit in dysfunctional ways. I don't suggest you become emotional caretakers/enablers and you need boundaries to protect your own emotional well being. It's to understand that the dynamic between your parents- even if it was dysfunctional, worked, somehow, for her in a way.

This is a challenging situation. In the US, elder care is not covered by Medicare. Most elder assistance is either self pay or provided by family. Medicaid will cover a skilled nursing home if the person qualifies financially.  Need is based on physical needs- like mobility, cognition. BPD mother's emotional needs exceeded her physical ones, and so were less likely to be apparent. Your system may be different but I think may be still measuring need by physical needs.

I don't have a solution- but it did help to not see this as personal but a part of the disorder. This didn't completely change the feelings- BPD mother could be hurtful. I don't think it's possible to be completely detached from this. It's possible your mother was more dependent on your father than anyone realized.

[GlobeTrotterGirl]

My dad was one of life's optimists, a placid good guy and I think that must have been a good counterbalance for her behaviour - I was always more frightened of her when I as a child when my dad was away in business because her mood would always turn! Funny thing is she has a blazing argument with my brother the other day and said that we kids used to beat her up! She remembers made my brother ill with stress recently!

Anyway she always kinds of pulls us back in when she realises she's gone too far and my brother and I were invited for lunch yesterday. I of course had to hear her extremely venomous version of what happened between her and my brother before he arrived. 

She doesn't like sitting outside when it's warm so it was nice that she wanted to yesterday but it was a weird experience in itself because I knew she had stripped a number of rooms if the house of all the furniture and everything in it but walking through the empty dining room and sun room to get to the garden was still shocking - my dad loved the sun room and it's like she's got rid of every trace of him! She even gave the fireplace away from in there that a future buyer of her house would have to replace! The garden was bare, it was my dad's pride and joy but the summerhouse, wooden furniture, ornaments and statues all gone! Not even one of his bird boxes left. This is where it also gets really chilling, my brother came whilst she was inside and he showed paving stones in the garden that she had carved "DEATH" in to several times! She had showed him them the day before on his birthday! What is she trying to achieve by doing that!

She had a rant that her doctors have now started refusing to prescribe her Lorazepam and Diazepams anymore - alcohol abuse ABC suicidality will do that! She laboured the point three times that she's been on them for 46 years - I'm 46 so I'd that a loaded dig to blame me being born for how she is.

You get the caring mum moments but the dark, evil.twin keeps coming out and makes every visit hard!

[zachira]

Einstein,
It might help you to learn what you can about "flying monkeys", people who enable the smear campaign of other disordered individuals. My hat is off to you in that you checked out your mother's story and did not become her "flying monkey". So many people become "flying monkeys" because they automatically believe the lies they are told about another person and are enlisted to make the life miserable of the victim on a long term basis. You saw through pretty quickly what you mother was doing. Now you know you really can't believe what she tells you without checking out her story first.

[CC43]

Understanding what was going on with my BPD mother after my father passed was confusing because, sometimes the "reason" for the pwBPD's acting out- or the reason they say, isn't the actual reason. PwBPD have difficulty managing emotions- and perceive them as coming from someone or something else, rather than their own emotions- projection- or look to an external way to relieve them, like acting out, raging, etc.

Agree 1000% with this observation.  I think that many times, pwBPD misread situations, even their own emotions.  With a deeply ingrained victim attitude, most of the time, pwBPD blame others for "causing" their ill feelings.  And since they are overwhelmed, they walk around life feeling "traumatized" by ordinary situations.  A visit by an arborist could feel overwhelming--not only interrupting the day, but potentially bringing some unexpected news she can't handle (e.g. costly, urgent or complicated work needed to treat some plants).  She could have been mad that Einstein "abandoned" her and made her attend to the arborists all by herself!  A vacation could trigger feelings of abandonment, as well as plain jealousy ("It's unfair they leave me here all alone while they're having fun, and I never get to do anything fun . . . They are popular and I have no friends . . . Life's unfair, I hate it, they should be punished for making me feel this way . . . ").  Sickness, especially grave sickness, could consume her with worry about disruption to her life, making her testy and moody every day.  With her black-and-white thinking, she can't contextualize, she can't see through temporary discomfort or setbacks, she has zero capacity for empathy for others.  Her needs are NOT being met, and she is compelled to act out on them, to let you know she's NOT OK with anybody making her feel bad, and you better do something to FIX it, or be punished for it.  She perceives her life to be miserable, and she could be determined to take you down with her, by "punishing" you.

You know the saying, misery likes company?  I think that with BPD, misery likes miserable company.